Water cooling CPU and GPU's

[Belcher47]

This is going to be my 4th and probably last build so I'm going all out. I'll be going with one of the new Intel 6 core LGA-2011 CPU's and my thought was a pair of GTX-580 Aquas in SLI and probably the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme/BF3 mobo. Should I run two seperate cooling loops (2 rad's, 2 pumps) or can I get away with 1 loop combining all 3? Or..... can I get more bang for the buck with different GPU's? This is my first big budget machine ( 4K usd ) and my head is spinning with all the choices from cases to ram so I'll have many questions as I go, please have mercy on the old man....LOL

Thanks, Belcher47

[xeromist]

Given how much you are spending on the whole build, an extra pump and some tubing shouldn't be a big deal. You're going to need at least 2 rads anyway if you want to OC that CPU at all. So if you can do a 360mm for the cards and one for the CPU you'll be in a pretty good position. How much radiator can you fit in/on the case you're planning to use?

[Belcher47]

Given how much you are spending on the whole build, an extra pump and some tubing shouldn't be a big deal. You're going to need at least 2 rads anyway if you want to OC that CPU at all. So if you can do a 360mm for the cards and one for the CPU you'll be in a pretty good position. How much radiator can you fit in/on the case you're planning to use?

For once it's not a matter of money...LOL but one question kind of leads to another. Once I know what I need for cooling I can look for a case to fit. My first thoughts were a CORSARE 800D or the new COOLERMASTER COSMOS II, both big cases but don't think they will fit a 360 rad. Both have room for a 320 on top but not sure what else would fit. The both have draw backs, the 800D no room for a 2nd rad and the COSMOS II only 3 5 inch slots and no glass side panel (a shame to do all that water cooling and not be able to see it). I am open for ideas

[houndazs]

My case has lots of room for water cooling. i am very glad i bought it., so i have room for future components and WC.
5895

[xeromist]

Well, you could probably get away with a 360 and a 240 depending on how much overclocking you want to do. A 120 is going to be too small. I guess I have two questions for you: do you want all of the radiators mounted internally and have you considered something like a Mountain Mods cube or is that just a bit too big?

I suppose it also depends on the goal. I once put 3 GPUs and a CPU on 360 worth of Black Ice rad just to see what would happen. I wouldn't recommend it because it ran hotter than most air cooled systems without overclocking, but it worked.

[xeromist]

Hound, it just cracks me up to see that board surrounded by such a cavernous case. Makes it look like micro ITX or something :)

[Belcher47]

My case has lots of room for water cooling. i am very glad i bought it., so i have room for future components and WC.
5895

I have the same case Houndazes, the top will only fit a 320 rad as you can see from my picture and once you start adding a 2nd pump, rad and resivoir you run out of room fast. There is realy no room for a 2nd rad, even at the bottom.5899

[DaemonCantor]

Belcher47, I'm no water cooling expert like a lot of people around here but from Both Pictures and what parts I know are out there I could fit 2 Radiators, Pumps and Reservoirs in there. Might be a little tight but then again doesn't look like it. Dang! I wish I was Rich so I could do it!

Mind you I didn't state Size but judging from the Pics I'd put a 320 at top like you have and then a smaller one at bottom like houndazs has, use the 5 1/4" Drive bay Reservoirs, and put the Pumps at the Bottom of the case between the side rails of the Drive cage. also I would clean up the mess of wire at the bottom so that the lower Radiator could breathe. Just my opinion.

[houndazs]

Belcher47, I'm no water cooling expert like a lot of people around here but from Both Pictures and what parts I know are out there I could fit 2 Radiators, Pumps and Reservoirs in there. Might be a little tight but then again doesn't look like it. Dang! I wish I was Rich so I could do it!

Mind you I didn't state Size but judging from the Pics I'd put a 320 at top like you have and then a smaller one at bottom like houndazs has, use the 5 1/4" Drive bay Reservoirs, and put the Pumps at the Bottom of the case between the side rails of the Drive cage. also I would clean up the mess of wire at the bottom so that the lower Radiator could breathe. Just my opinion.

Yea i planed on getting a 2x 5 1/2" bay res, put a 320 at the top and the 240 on the bottom. I would just have to mod the bottom to fit the 240 as Xigmatek were stupid in the design of the bottom of this case. the bottom mesh stops at the drive bays....gay.

Xeromist i agree it does look funny in the pics, it doesn't look too bad up close with the side panel on.

[DaemonCantor]

Yea! that's right they do have Res and Pump Combo that fit in the 5 1/4 bay...I forgot that and then you wouldn't need to place any pump any where... Thank you for reminding me of that!

[xeromist]

That's a huge case. You could put a 360 in the top, a 360 in the front bays, a 120 in the rear. Hey, if you were going to use only SSDs and a single optical you could mount the SSDs on the side of the drive bays, move the 360 up in the front, and put an additional 240 in the bottom. Basically there are tons of options.

[houndazs]

Yea! that's right they do have Res and Pump Combo that fit in the 5 1/4 bay...I forgot that and then you wouldn't need to place any pump any where... Thank you for reminding me of that!

WIN!!!!!!
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_318_665&products_id=25767

[Belcher47]

I must say that I am sorry for the mess in the picture but that was taken before the build was finished. I had thought about putting the pumps and resivoirs in the 5 1/4 bays but that still leaves the 2nd rad with no home. Like Houndazes mentioned the grill work on the bottom of the case stops at the hard drive bay but it might fit a 240 rad down there. I will also have to consider the new power supply, it might be logger than my Corsair 1000 watt unit I have in there now. Oh, I did take a look at those CUBE cases, something like that would solve all the above problems and would work as a nice dog house when the machine is off......LOL, I'm going to call them Monday. One last thought, for all the work we are talking about would I be just as well off going with air cooled GTX-580's? With the money saved I could go with 3 of them instead of 2 aqua's. Thanks for all of your time and input.

[Belcher47]

Ok guys, I'm starting to think that we are not on the same page here. What do you mean by a "360" ? When I say a 320 rad I am talking about a rad that uses 3 120mm fans. When you say a 360 are you talking about 3 160mm fans...? There is no way anything like that would fit in this case, 3 140mm fans MIGHT fit in the top but it would be tight. This would be my 2nd WC mschine so some of the terms are new to me.

[UltraNEO*]

Ok guys, I'm starting to think that we are not on the same page here. What do you mean by a "360" ? When I say a 320 rad I am talking about a rad that uses 3 120mm fans.

Huh?

How does 3 x 120 = 320? Don't you mean "360" ??? or 120.3


When you say a 360 are you talking about 3 160mm fans...? There is no way anything like that would fit in this case, 3 140mm fans MIGHT fit in the top but it would be tight. This would be my 2nd WC mschine so some of the terms are new to me.

3 x 160mm = 480

I'm sure of it... How you doing your maths? Are you even on the same page?


When xeromist was talking about fitting a 360 into your case. He means in the front where the 5.25" drives would normally go. You'd simply mod the case to fit and relocate your hard-drives. It's sounds more complicated than it really is.

[HiVizMan]

3 x 120mm = 360 also known as 120.3
4 x 120mm = 480

Just to clear up any confusion.

When you change the fan size your get 140.3 for example.

[Belcher47]

3 x 120mm = 360 also known as 120.3
4 x 120mm = 480

Just to clear up any confusion.

When you change the fan size your get 140.3 for example.

Thanks for the help HiVizMan and I understand now, not sure what I was thinking but MY BAD. Be gentle guys, I came here for help not to get spanked, I'm new at this WC thing, one build didn't make me a GURU....LOL. I also broke my darn neck a few years back so I have some problems with nerve damage and taking a hacksaw to my case.....no whine just fact. Anyway, things are making alot more sence now and a 2nd rad is looking more doable.

[UltraNEO*]

Thanks for the help HiVizMan and I understand now, not sure what I was thinking but MY BAD. Be gentle guys, I came here for help not to get spanked, I'm new at this WC thing, one build didn't make me a GURU....LOL. I also broke my darn neck a few years back so I have some problems with nerve damage and taking a hacksaw to my case.....no whine just fact. Anyway, things are making alot more sence now and a 2nd rad is looking more doable.

Curious... What do you have in the front in terms of hard-drives/optical devices? I see many possibilities for this area...
Isn't it possible to mod the front panel or section, creating rad holders for a 4x120mm Rad, then use eight quality fans p/p config to help dissipation heat?? I think this would be ideal for them GPU's

[Belcher47]

In the 5 1/4 bays (6) I have 2 optical drives and a multi-card reader. I would like to keep all 3 but I do have a card reader in my printer and would consider 1 BlueRay/DVD/CD leaving 4 bays open unless I go with bay mount pumps and resivoir combo. I also have 8 HD slots, my thought was 2 SSD's in RAID-0 for the OP and 4 WD CAVIAR BLACK 1TB in a RAID 10 set up. Non of this is cut in stone and the 4 HDs in RAID 10 is probably over kill but interesting. I think the best way to start is to know whatI need for cooling and than go from there. The 360 is in and running and no problem, what do I need for the 2 580 aquas? Over kill is better if I can scrounge up enought for 3 of the 580's. Sorry guys, I didn't mean to make such a mess of this but I know I can build a 4-5k machine that would cost 8-10k store made.

[UltraNEO*]

In the 5 1/4 bays (6) I have 2 optical drives and a multi-card reader. I would like to keep all 3 but I do have a card reader in my printer and would consider 1 BlueRay/DVD/CD leaving 4 bays open unless I go with bay mount pumps and resivoir combo. I also have 8 HD slots, my thought was 2 SSD's in RAID-0 for the OP and 4 WD CAVIAR BLACK 1TB in a RAID 10 set up. Non of this is cut in stone and the 4 HDs in RAID 10 is probably over kill but interesting. I think the best way to start is to know whatI need for cooling and than go from there. The 360 is in and running and no problem, what do I need for the 2 580 aquas? Over kill is better if I can scrounge up enought for 3 of the 580's. Sorry guys, I didn't mean to make such a mess of this but I know I can build a 4-5k machine that would cost 8-10k store made.

If your planning on setting up a RAID with 4 x 1TB drives...

I'd personally would choose a different option to RAID10 (strip set with mirror) simply because there's no redundancy options with this configuration; plus the maximum continuous storage space available would be less than 2TB (formatted)...

A better option would be RAID5 with distributed parity (maximum continuous storage ~3.7TB)
- if one drive failed the entire array would take a performance hit but it'll still work and any lost due to hardware failure can be rebuilt! But only once you've replaced the drive.


So to recap: the main difference between the two is speed:

RAID 10 - faster but less secure
RAID 5 - slightly slower but has redundancy of 1 HDD


FYI:
If you installed a Icy Box IB-555SSK enclosure, you could install five HDD in the space of three 5.25" optical bays - the IcyBox IB-554SSK will hold 4 drives.

Front:
http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/1029427-a.jpg

Back:
http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/1029427-b.jpg

[Belcher47]

What do you do when you run out of SATA ports? Talking about raid 10 or raid 5 plus SSD's in a raid 0 for the OS 8 SATA ports get eaten up fast.

[UltraNEO*]

Gonna try give you a viable solution in reverse order...


What do you do when you run out of SATA ports?

You can add additional I/O cards increasing the number of SATA ports available... or if your serious about your RAID, invest into a dedicated RAID controller.



Talking about raid 10 or raid 5 plus SSD's in a raid 0 for the OS 8 SATA ports get eaten up fast.

From my understanding and experience, RAID0 with SSDs is not the best idea due to the parity writes trashing the wear-levelling algorithms. Over time this will simply result in short lives for your SSDs. So, if your simply creating a RAID0 SSD drive due to size limitations then I would advise you invest more and buy bigger!! - This would be the more logical solution. :) - Ultimately it's your call!

However, if you feel them SATAIII (6Gb/s) is simply too slow and you demand more bandwidth!! Then. might I suggest you take a look at those PCI Express-Based SSDs?? Now, depending on the card you could be looking at theoretical maximum bandwidth of 4 GB/s transfers (not to be confused with 6 Gbit/s).



Anyhow, back to our humble Rampage IV Extreme, it has total of eight (8) SATA ports configured in the following manor:

Intel SATA revision 2.0 (SATA 3 Gbit/s) - 4 (black)
Intel SATA revision 3.0 (SATA 6 Gbit/s) - 2 (red)
ASMedia SATA revision 3.0 (SATA 6 Gbit/s) (HDD only) - 2 (red)


RAID
- "SATA3G_1", "SATA3G_2", "SATA3G_3" & "SATA3G_4"
Setting up either RAID10 or RAID5 requires a minimum of four ports, since it's gonna be four large mechanical drives reading and writing in sync, you won't need high-speed ports period. Thus, use the four black ports.

Optical
- "SATA6G_1" & "SATA6G_2"
This leave you two free ports for the a optical drive...
OK, you don't need SATA 3.0 for optical drives but what choices do you have?

SSD (Single or RAID0)
- "SATA6G_E1" & "SATA6G_E2"
Use the one or both of them 6Gb SATAIII ports for your SSD
- Note: If you choose you can live without an optical drive then choose the Intel SATA ports instead and disable the AS Media ports completely; otherwise you're lumbered with the speedy AS Media ports since you can't install optical device into them, they don't work.



Personal opinion:
If I'm building a system with any form of RAID, I would shop around for good controller card by a reputable manufacturer. Choose one with an on-board processor and possible onboard cache, this might cost a little more but the speed boosts alone would make the initial investment worthwhile.

[Belcher47]

Thanks for the tip on the SSD's, the whole RAID thing seemed interesting but not needed.

[Belcher47]

Sorry gang but this got a bit out of hand and I think if you can help with these 2 questions we can close this thread. Using 2 loops, 1 for the GPU's and 1 for the i7-3930 what size rad do I need for each loop? Cases and SATA ports I can handle. I would like to run the i7-3930 around 4.8 - 5.1, no real super over clocking and I would like to plan for 3 GTX-580 HYDRO's. Thank you all for putting up with the old man.

[flearider]

i use 2 triple rads on my sys x6 1090t and 5870 .. in one loop pump rad cpu rad gpu back to pump .. works well and with both being over clocked i get idel temps of 27c and load of 45c with 1/3 fans just don't need it on full .. sounds like a plane if i do ..lol
case is an old girl .. pc 70 1 rad inside on top and one down the front ..

[HiVizMan]

Go have a little sleep and all the cool threads start, is there a message there :p

You will need at least a 360 rad loop for the 3 580 cards
For the modest as you wish to call it 5.1GHz cpu overclock a dual rad will do the trick
Pumps most will do the job, I favour the 655 but they are big and bulky so could be difficult for a build.
Blocks to the CPU is like wine what works for you is a personal choice. 98% of those available will do the job. 1'C here or there does not make much difference at the end of the day.

You do understand that you are about to enter the slippery slope of no return. Once you head on down the custom water route very few return unscathed. It becomes a hobby then a mission a kind of never ending quest. :D

Great fun but expensive.

[Belcher47]

Oh Mr. HiVizMan, such words of wisdom in your post. I'm going to ramble for a moment, forgive me. Wife say's "Why a new computer, what's wrong with this one?" Ah, more words of wisdom, many gamers would die for this machine I have sitting here. As humble as it was that CORSAIR H2O-70 in my first build planted that sead and indeed it started me down that "slippery slope" of water cooling. Yes, 3 air cooled 580's would have been MUCH cheaper and a easier build but the pull of hoses, pumps and UV lights was much to strong for this old man and further down the slope I slide.....doomed.

[Hillguy]

Have you considered putting the rad/rads outside the case ??

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff351/hillguy_2008/Photos/MyRig2.gif

[Belcher47]

Wow, that's nice. I have been looking at all my options and my first SS check won't get here till mid March so I have time. Thanks for the input and you have a nice set up there.