Cooling Question

[Gnarly]

Howdy,

I wonder if anyone could give a little advice. I am looking for a new cooling solution. I have been using the Corsair H100 which I switched out from the Intel liquid cooling thingy (can't remember model off the top of my head). The difference between the two is negligible. I can over clock 24/7 at about 4.7ghz. I can actually get an overclock of 5ghz but two of the cores are flaming hot. It runs stable at that speed for a short time, benchmarking etc..

I guess I am looking for a good kit to start out with. So far I have been leaning towards the Swiftech H20-X20. However I am still waiting to hear back from their support to see if it is fully compatible with my Cosmos 2. The support guy said he is getting one in next week from Cooler Master. He is Really cool. I reminded him of the 50 LB weight of the case with out anything even in it.

Anyone else use this cooling solution or have any ideas for another kit that actually works well? Right now at no load I am in the lower 30's on all cores. Full load I run in the upper 60's- 70's (at 4.7). I would like to run a somewhat stable 5 if my system allows, or at least move towards full on liquid just for the learning experience.

I appreciate any advice!

[Zka17]

Hey Gnarly, reading your post, something came in my mind... Are you sure that you want to invest into a new WC setup? I mean, the temp differences between the H100 and a Swiftech H220 are only few degrees. My point is if you tried to optimize the H100 before switching to Swiftech?

I'm asking because your idle temps at lower 30ies seems a little bit high to me... However the upper 60-70's are just fine. Based on these, i'm wondering how is your system's airfolw? In order to get the best temps on any radiator, you must have a very good and cold airflow through it. Does this happening in your system?

Would you post some pictures about your system? (maybe in the "Case Modding & PC Build Pics" section...)

[Skuggan]

Is low 30's high for idle?

I use custom watercooling with a EK HF Supreme block on the CPU and it idles at 33C at stock speed, the graphics cards, 2x GTX 680 idles at 27C. My 3930k CPU used to idle at 24C with a H100, then I changed RAM for 2133mhz RAM and got these two GTX 680 cards and the CPU temperature raised dramatically. So you cant really go after anyone elses temperatures, unless your rig is identical.

[Gnarly]

Yes I know about trying to get close to anyone else. 30's is idle, I wish it was full load! My airflow is decent I have 10 fans but I just switched out cards and cabling is not so great, a bit in the way. I have 2400mhz 64gb of RAM which I suspect may have something to do with overall temp. I also have three 7970's which don't seem to run too hot, however I have never been anywhere near the mid 20's. At full load my temps are insanely hot. BTW- I have a 3960.

Thanks for the input!

[Zka17]

You're absolutely right, Skuggan, "... you cant really go after anyone elses temperatures, unless your rig is identical". However, there is a more objective way to assess the temperatures: by delta T (the difference between the ambient temp and the component inside your system). Lower delta T is meaning better cooling efficiency.

Generally speaking, a delta T above 10 is considered a very low efficiency from a water cooling loop. Delta T between 5 and 10 is much better, while values below 5 are meaning a very good cooling setup.

When I stated "idle temps at lower 30ies seems a little bit high to me", I did a mistake in the sense that I didn't know the room temperature where Gnarly got those values... I can not emphasize enough the importance of mentioning the ambient temperatures when someone is posting system temps!

In Gnarly's case I assumed an ambient temp between 20-25C, as most of the households have temps set up in this range. Lower thirties in this way are meaning delta T around 10... A single 120 mm radiator for a 3960 may be around the limit regarding the cooling abilities, as most experienced people are suggesting at least a double 120 mm one - that's why I mention that too.

I never used a rad smaller than a double 120 mm, but I think it can be taken as a general observation that a good, cold airflow through the radiator will make the cooling more efficient. I experienced this multiple times while I was trying different radiator placements and fan configurations.

Some examples from what I found out.

1. Placing a radiator with the fans set up for exhaust in a case with negative pressure (more exhaust then intake), is a pretty bad idea... Not only the radiator won't have appropriate airflow, but also will accumulate a lot of dust over time - leading to even worse cooling. So, be sure that you have enough intakes!

2. Placing the radiator with the fans for exhaust in a case where the temps are high - specially a high end graphic card on air cooling, but exhausting inside the case. In this way, for the radiator the ambient temperature will be the hot air inside the case... Be sure that the case temperature is as close as possible to ambient!

3. Placing the rad with the fans configured as intake on the top of a positive pressurized, hot inside temp case - one of the worst choices. Not only that the radiators have to fight against the naturally raising hot air, but with the positive pressure too. Make sure that is a balance between intakes and exhausts!

4. Placing the rad with the fans in tight places inside the case - maybe the most common problem, specially in the multi rad setups. For the fans to work properly (max efficiency and quiet) it's an absolute requirement to allow enough space in both intake and exhaust sides! This is why the shrouds were invented too between the radiator and fans. So, be careful with the placement of the rads!

[Gnarly]

I will post some pics. And I will concentrate more on my airflow. My radiator is quite hot even with my 10 fans. When I get higher than 4.7ghz i get in the lower 80's on a couple of cores. This is what concerns me. It is fine for some benchmarking but it seems unsafe to me. Maybe I will just order a corsair 220 instead of the Swiftech setup. Perhaps I can get some lower temps (at least a few degrees). First I am going to do re-do some cabling and make sure airflow to my radiator is better. I recently re-swapped 3 geforce 680's for my 7970's (which by the way are much faster as they are gen 3). I did the swap kind of fast as I was kind of pissed at there performance. So I did not concentrate as much on my cable management. I am going to do that this weekend as see the difference. This is the best route to go prior to considering a change in cooling.

Thank you very much for the advice!

[Gnarly]

Good ideas. I would have thought that more fans with outtake rather than intake would make more sense. Logically this makes little sense. My room temps are high. I live in Florida (USA) where the outside temps are always in the 80's f. Inside my house it always 78 f. This is hot. I thought I had a good intake/outake airflow in the case and never really considered the radiator. I also have hot RAM and (8 sticks at 2400) and 3 VGA cards. My drives (6) are pretty cool as they are all SSD's so I am not necessarily concerned with them.

A lot of good advice guys. I really appreciate it.

I am going to do some air flow changes today or tomorrow. Prior to the purchase of anything new.

[Zka17]

"more fans with outtake rather than intake" - that's called a negative pressure system. However, keep in mind that more outtake/exhaust fans aren't necessary meaning that you're taking more air out then the intake fans are taking in... It's all about cfm... So, if you have the same size and speed fans, then yes, you have a negatively pressurized system. But, if the intake fans are bigger and/or running higher speed and/or their cumulative cfm is higher - then is a different situation!

"I live in Florida (USA) where the outside temps are always in the 80's f. Inside my house it always 78 f. This is hot." - I feel your pain, mate! I'm in South Carolina, it's not better here either... Our apartment's temps are between 68-72F as we try to accommodate to this climate (both me and my wife were born and raised in mountains, we are used with colder temps). Unfortunately, regarding the pc temps, these climates are not too favorable... Starting from a higher temp, we are reaching the maximums faster. That's what we got, that's what we have to live with!

"I also have hot RAM and (8 sticks at 2400) and 3 VGA cards." - Well, this is the point where I would consider a fully custom water cooling loop...

It is still somewhat possible to keep the VGAs cool with air, but you really need to design the airflow really carefully. The thing is that is not enough to cool these beasts, but you have to be sure that they are not heating other components - i.e. the hot air produced by them has to be exhausted before it reaches other components. With the Cosmos II, this actually could be achievable by setting up the two upper vent holes on the side panel for exhaust, then you could have the front fan as intake - and perhaps the rear fan as intake too. The problem, however, will be how to feed the upper mounted (I assume) H100?!

For the memories, you may be able to mount some coolers - but the thing is that you can hardly feed them with cold air... (and the hot air may raise from the VGAs won't do any good). Beside, the hot air leaving the memories would be sucked up by the H100... - if that's set up for exhaust.

So, you should play around with optimizing the airflow in your case (by cable management and fan configuration), but a real benefit - I think - you would get from a fully custom (cpu, vgas, memory, mobo) water cooling loop...

"A lot of good advice guys. I really appreciate it." - You are very welcome! As i understood, that's why this forum was created...

[Gnarly]

A water cooling loop is what I am really considering. Granted I have never done it before. It is not bother me as I enjoy learning new things and have been wanting to do it for a while.

I love to overclock and this is where I think I would benefit mostly. This is the hottest processor I have ever dealt with. Unbelievable. I wonder if the Ivy Bridge chips will run at the same temps.

These 7970's are not all that hot compared to most NVIDIA cards I have. But they have to be affecting my overall component temperatures regardless of the three fans I have blowing right on them. I have the front fan as intake and the rear as outake (i'll switch the rear). And yes, the H100 is outake and obviously is nice and hot.

I am going to start researching a water cooling solution any websites you suggest for parts? I have looked at a few already.

I just can't overclock the way I would like. I can overclock the cards extremely well, but that gets old. Right now I am at the upper 30's c just writing this reply!

Thanks again...

[Zka17]

Just remembered a simple method to figure out if your airflow is good enough: take off the side panel! If the temps are going down, you definitely have to improve the fan configuration! If nothing happens, then this method will not help you... If the temps start rising, you still can play around with the fan configuration - but real the benefit would be a custom water cooling loop.

For me, two websites proved to be the most helpful: http://www.frozencpu.com/ and http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php
Both of them you will find a lot of goodies under the "Liquid Cooling" and "Water Cooling" sections, respectively.