New Headphones For Phoebus

[SMiThaYe]

I had the Sennheiser PC350 (broke) and now I need a much better set of cans that excels at music and is suitable for gaming. I would buy a separate mic rather than compromise on SQ and limit choice.

So far I've checked out the Sennheiser HD800 and Grado GS1000i for ultimate sound quality and there's probably others (cheaper too) that I've missed but I don't want to compromise too much. Not sure if these premium-range type of cans are ideal for use with the Phoebus - suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

[dedaciai]

I had the Sennheiser PC350 (broke) and now I need a much better set of cans that excels at music and is suitable for gaming. I would buy a separate mic rather than compromise on SQ and limit choice.

So far I've checked out the Sennheiser HD800 and Grado GS1000i for ultimate sound quality and there's probably others (cheaper too) that I've missed but I don't want to compromise too much. Not sure if these premium-range type of cans are ideal for use with the Phoebus - suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

If you want to save yourself some quid, check out the Beyerdynamic DT 880s or the AKG Q701. Both have really good audio, cost a lot less, and there soundstages for gaming are really good. They run in the 250-350$ range. With the money saved you could get another 680:-)

Also, check out the reviews and forums at www.head-fi.org. It is very informative.

[Raja@ASUS]

Got the HD800s here, they are good, but can be too clinical for some. If you like a warmer presentation then maybe look at some others.

[SMiThaYe]

Appreciate the feedback

From the additional research I've gathered in addition to the suggestions here to find the right headset, it's essential I have good clarity in all audio to pick up minute details: a decent bass for rock of old and new (old music would otherwise sound too flat), good range mid (not flat or distorted) to pick up strings, background guitars, from soundtracks to give depth and emotion. I have the Phoebus Home Theatre always on, I'm using Bright EQ, that probably means I'm more suited to a slightly-warm + rich sound.

I'm going to place additional emphasis on good quality cables and connectors as my previous two headsets (around the £150 mark) were thin causing reliability issues - just like the type of jack plug you get on bog-standard cans. All my home theatre cables are crimped cooper double-shielded, it makes no sense when expensive cans stick a cheap cable on. Even the decent-looking Sennheiser HD650 Reference has unappealing cables despite costing £300.

The AKG Q701 certainly looks great on paper; are meant to be very durable, the cable looks thicker than normal, (10Hz - 39.8kHz), but isn't 62 ohms too low? My Sennheiser 350s were 150 ohms. These look similar performing as the £1k Grado GS1000i but at just £240. Cables look changeable and would be ideal to swap the 3 metre for my quality 0.5 metre cable. Assuming connections are are standard, the control for the Phoebus is right next to me... minimising having too much slack and snagging it.

[Raja@ASUS]

If the bright EQ lifts anything over 5KHz then you likely have a preference for elevated treble. Midrange is the forte of the HD800, and it has a peak around 6KHz (about 3-dB depending upon the sample). Bass is very tight, but not gargantuan like sealed can types. I would describe the bass as quite accurate, though I feel you might find it lacking punch for some rock unless you add some boost below 100Hz. The HD800 excels at soundstage I find - on the Essence One, it sounds very very precise in BF3 without any kind of effects required. I got some opamps on the way as there are a few things I'd like to try.

As for cables, Toxic cables does some nice after-market stuff, that can work out cheaper than replacing the stock HD800 if you don't need the length.

-Raja

[SMiThaYe]

I'll rule out the Grado GS1000i because they are uncomfortable and look too big despite a good range of audio (went to my local audio shop 5 minutes away). More on the bass side of things; that is a big let down of the AKG Q701 and is important I hear it on older tracks from Queen tracks that now sounds underpowered, flat and just a touch of bass, that's among many other older tracks I have.

Raja@ASUS, the Sennheiser HD800 I read from various places had a very pleasing audio with slightly better bass than the AKG Q701, but I hope it sounds good and upbeat with U2/Billy Joel - if it's more suited for classical like the Q701, unfortunately that may be unsuitable too. In BF3, was there enough impact playing BF3 to make you want to jump than a whimper of a sound with good direction capabilities?

On cables: I'm not sure about the provided cables (seems cheap and less durability) but I'll go with your suggestion Raja on using quality Toxic cables, any idea what cable options are best for a better bass (I think the silver plated is better for enhancing mainly clarity)? Thanks

[Raja@ASUS]

Hi,

For me I found I could pinpoint the location of sounds in BF3 with the HD800s quite well on the Phoebus. The Essence One is better still.

I think you may have to get used to the tonal balance of the HD800s coming from any other headphone, so if you decide to give them an audition give them some time. At first you may wonder where all the bass you are used to has gone, and then you'll find it probably sounds more right than most of the other phones out there. That being said, if you can find something cheaper that suits your need then try them out. The one thing Sennheiser really have down to a tee is comfort, but then you are paying a LOT of money for them.

As for the cables, all else being equal silver has a lower resistance than copper. I'd spend some time on the stock cable and then make a decision if you need to change a cable and see if you need something to tip the tonal balance in one direction or the other.

-Raja

[SMiThaYe]

Very informative as always Raja, appreciate the advice

I've found a store about 15 miles away to give HD800s a test (should be tomorrow) as the other one was 90 miles away - worth it whatever the distance spending this much! Of the Sennheiser's i've owned and tested they've all been very comfortable but never sounded great - just teetering along being average and that isn't enough for me.

On comfort; that's one aspect where the Grado struggled in my opinion and can imagine gaming sessions it getting worse; it was hard and felt heavier to what I'm used to.

Btw, I was looking for a headphone holder but my second monitor server the same purpose - well until I DIY a solution to avoid taking up much deskspace by either mounting to wall or shelves.

[SMiThaYe]

I've been to three audio-specialist shops today and was given quite an education in quality audio and this is where I currently stand...

It wasn't the usual sales-fluff but useful advice in getting the most from high-end headset such as the HD800s - could be more spending however by using an amplifier with the Phoebus - didn't cross my mind to use one but does makes sense. Bear in mind I'm not too technical with audio but with time I'll learn a lot.

Amp will provide much better audio than the Phoebus could offer for my lossless music through the HD800s (well being a dedicated unit it would as the Phoebus is simply the audio processor) by using the digital or analogue outputs. Then picking the right amp will be hard so I headed back over to head-fi and have been digging around for hours on that excellent site and so far the Burson Audio HA-160D stands out to me.

Initially did think that it had optical out but does S/PDIF count and is it good enough for a £800 AMP (only for stereo playback rather than multichannel which becomes compressed on the Phoebus)?

Problem comes with finding the balance of amp to maximise the HD800s in combo with the Phoebus, and I'm not sure if I'll need a DAC or just pass straight through the Phoebus into the amp. Looking at things again, I could re-consider the suggested AKG Q701 by using it through a £300+ amp and see how close it comes to the HD800 without an amp.

I listened intently to the HD800s (custom-cables silver cable from a Swedish company) on a £500 Onkyo CD player that provided very rich-detailed audio with just enough bass... no complaints at all! Going back down the HD800-routre: There is a new AMP (maybe combined DAC too) coming out and will check that out next week. Apparently, the usual amplifiers don't push the HD800s to it's true potential. From the one's I've seen it was those sub-£700 and this new one may cost slightly more, blowing my upgrade budget for the rest of the year if it touches £2k

edit: to add I've been trying to find what that could be and hope it isn't the Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier due next month - cost £2k!!

[Raja@ASUS]

Check out the Essence One if you want a dedicated DAC/headphone amp. Drives the HD800s real well and you can change out all of the opamps to suit tastes. The headphone output stage is comprised of socketed opamps with a dedicated buffer amp in the feedback loop (LME49600) - has more than enough voltage and current drive for the HD800s. Bit perfect playback via a dedicated ASIO driver. Works off USB, optical or S/PDIF.

There are other choices also, but the Essence One is not a bad buy for the price. I compared it to the Benchmark DAC-1, and it does better in quite a few places for half the cost. Currently using LT1364s in the output stage, with the filter stages swapped with the original buffer amps. At least the cost won't blow your budget.

The Senn amp is exciting, though the specs have not yet been released.

We have more on the way next year but I can't say anything about that right now - we are gonna go all out. Been talking and brainstorming with the audio R&D guys and the stuff we are using will really shake up the scene.

-Raja