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STEREO MIX - function missing

AMDWiZARD
Level 7
Greetings. I just purchased this sound card. Despite all the negativity surrounding this card, I purchased it anyway.
The sound is fantastic. The latest Windows 7 drivers are by far fantastic. I can't comment on the drivers beforehand, as I didn't own this card then. Moving to the point. I don't think I'm alone to say I find it absurd to spend $200 on this card and find out the "Stereo Mix" aka "What U Hear" (in other sound cards) has been removed. If this is due to digital rights BS, for the love of whatever deity do we need to go through this all over again? Its ridiculous to think that $80 sound cards get this feature. Truthfully, even the Xonar STX card (which I bought the STX and Phoebus - if you want to know why, because I'm one of those people who can do those types of things) even has the ability for Stereo Mix under the recording tab.

We do know the feature is present in the .inf of the latest Phoebus drivers. Just open it up and youll see the last entry
for the Class registry key for it. Will someone explain to me, what benefit does it provide to "nix" the feature other than it irritates the very people who buy these types of high end sound cards? Why does my onboard audio get the feature? Seriously? I'm sure it takes an engineer 1 minute to modify the .inf and the .sys driver to enable this feature.

Therefore, I want an OFFICIAL response. And none of this "it doesn't support it" bs we all love to hear from the support teams. Clearly the .inf does show it does support the Stereo Mix function.

Another person asked about this and he was ignored. I will not be ignored.
Raja perhaps the engineering team would provide a beta unsupported driver that re-enables this feature.
I could careless if its official or not, just give us what we want.

Thanks.
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15 REPLIES 15

Raja
Level 13
I do not know why, sorry (I don't work for the Xonar team or make the cards/drivers). CNY now so can't even get a response for you (I'll ask but don't hold your breath). I doubt it will be added now though if I am honest, as it takes C-Media~Xonar long enough to update things as it is and this would be one more thing that causes a delay. Sonic Radar was supposed to be released at the start of Q2 last year and it's still not here.

What I do know is that the driver structure for this card is completely different from the other cards, so maybe that has something to do with it. For instance, the digital side does not allow speaker config - and the driver would need to be completely re-written to add it. That's something that is not going to happen as far as I am aware (yes, I have asked). You are welcome to petition the Xonar inbox for this feature if you wish (see the bug report thread for link).

If you have an urgent or pressing need for this feature, I suggest you stick with one of the other cards that supports it

That's an honest reply, sorry if it offends.

AMDWiZARD
Level 7
Raja,

Fair enough. I know you've been very straight with issues in the past. I will attempt to contact ASUS engineering support to try to get an answer once and for all about this. It just doesn't seem so impossible especially with the registry keys added in the registry for "stereo mix"
in the drivers. I regret the other features were not added. It seems as if the card itself has incredible potential and its just lacking some serious attention. Although I'll admit, 6 - 8 months for driver updates is kind of absurd these days - especially with graphics companies pushing out drivers at least every couple months. However the worse two companies are Logitech and Creative Labs who haven't released new drivers in a millennium although they feel the need to sell you hardware and provide the worse software support in ages. Sorry, had to say it. LOL. I guess when you are practically a monopoly, you can do those sorts of things. In my mind, I feel like ASUS is a big enough OEM and has enough financial resources to make this card into something fantastic. I guess I'll be sticking with the STX for now since it supports the features. Other than that I'll keep everyone posted as to what kind of contact I make with Asus engineering on this issue.

Raja & Phoebus owners:

The Xonar engineering team contacted me with an email to let me know they received my email and have forwarded my concerned to their team lead. Just maybe, maybe we'll see Stereo Mix in the next drivers... bugs me they would omit this feature from such a killer sound card.

WTC
Level 7
Well, I would agree with Raja that this will not happen for Phoebus. Stereo Mix is not implemented in Phoebus hardware, and it can not be implemented successfully in software driver with the driver architecture Phoebus is using (HDAudio). For PCI or USB audio, kernel mode driver has the chance to manipulate audio data, namely route/mix output stream to recording stream and mimic stereo mix function. For HDAudio architecture kernel mode driver do not have this opportunity. All software DSP for audio data should be done in user mode driver components (APO), which has much less execution priority comparing to kernel mode driver. In order to avoid audio glitches (while implementing in APO) long latency have to be introduced and I would guess this makes the whole thing impractical.

AMDWiZARD
Level 7
Honestly, I'm not buying that -- and I'm going to tell you why. Many years ago Intel did the same thing with their Sigmatel drivers they gave Dell. They kept saying it couldn't be done. After massive protest people found a way to hack the registry to achieve the functionality back.
Then, miraculously, Dell released drivers to make it happen. To sit there and tell me that the CMI8888 chip present in the Phoebus cannot do this function is absurd, because the STX which has the CMI-8788 chip can do it. Do you mean to tell me, that in one revision of the main audio cpu that they said nope, can't do it. Not gonna buy that one. Realtek does it, Creative Labs does it, IDT does it.
Another example is when the XFi-Titanium was released by Creative Labs back in 2008. The stock drivers did not come with the functionality for it. I returned the card. After I posted I returned it because the feature was not present, within 2 months drivers were released to bring it back. Again, it cannot be as difficult as you make it appear to be. Lastly, is the presence of the feature listed within the .inf. Again, if the functionality does not exist, then why bother writing it into the .inf file? Hence this taken from the latest .inf file for the Phoebus.

DriverVer=07/22/2013,7.0.1.30

HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaCategories\%HDAGuidStereoMixPin%,Name,,%HDAStereoMixPinName%
HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaCategories\%HDAGuidStereoMixPin%,Display,1,00,00,00,00

; Stereo mix interfaces.
;
AddInterface=%KSCATEGORY_AUDIO%,%KSNAME_eStereoMixWave%,HdAudModel.StereoMixWave
AddInterface=%KSCATEGORY_CAPTURE%,%KSNAME_eStereoMixWave%,HdAudModel.StereoMixWave
AddInterface=%KSCATEGORY_REALTIME%,%KSNAME_eStereoMixWave%,HdAudModel.StereoMixWave
AddInterface=%KSCATEGORY_AUDIO%,%KSNAME_eStereoMixTopo%,HdAudModel.StereoMixTopo
AddInterface=%KSCATEGORY_TOPOLOGY%,%KSNAME_eStereoMixTopo%,HdAudModel.StereoMixTopo

; Stereo mix Model and AddReg.
;
[HdAudModel.StereoMixWave]
AddReg = HdAudModel.StereoMixWave.AddReg
[HdAudModel.StereoMixWave.AddReg]
HKR,,FriendlyName,,%StereoMixWaveDeviceName%
HKR,,CLSID,,%Proxy.CLSID%
[HdAudModel.StereoMixTopo]
AddReg = HdAudModel.StereoMixTopo.AddReg
[HdAudModel.StereoMixTopo.AddReg]
HKR,,FriendlyName,,%StereoMixTopoDeviceName%
HKR,,CLSID,,%Proxy.CLSID%

StereoMixWaveDeviceName = "HD Audio Stereo mix"
StereoMixTopoDeviceName = "HD Audio Stereo mix mixer"

HDAStereoMixPinName = "Stereo Mix"
HDAGuidStereoMixPin = "{8c5716e6-c984-492e-a2fb-1385f2d0f3c9}"

So again my point is, if you want to omit functionality, why write it into the .inf file? Why add registry keys for the feature?
I'm sure there's one or two lines missing or a simple digit that will "turn it on". Sorry, but you have to come better than that for an answer.

WTC
Level 7
Well, from what I know, CM8788 is PCI sound card chip, and its driver uses architecture like AC97, Which means kernel mode driver handles the task of moving audio data to hardware DMA, and in the mean time it can manipulate it. CM8888 is PCIe sound card chip. It uses HDAudio architecture (in order to pass WHQL). The data moving is handled by OS and HDAudio Bus driver. Data can not be touched by Phoebus kernel mode driver anymore. I'm not sure if CM8788 has hardware stereo mix implemented but if it hasn't, stereo mix function can be done in driver. Not for the case of Phoebus though.

I would guess for Realtek/CreativeLab/IDT/... they are either non-HDAudio architecture or having stereo mix in HW. But of course I might be wrong...

Stereo Mix listed in INF file doesn't really mean too much. It's listed there maybe because the INF can be used by another HW with minimum modification. If you take a look at Windows supplied HDAudio.inf you'll see a lot more interfaces that are supported by certain HW only. Anyway, I don't think ASUS will make any major feature change for this card at this point.

AMDWiZARD
Level 7
While the STX does use a PCIe interface it uses the PCI chip? Interesting. It does make sense as to why it wouldn't pass through the PCIe bus.
You might be right about it being done in hardware for the other chips, but if that is the case, you would believe that a superior CM8888 should be able to do it in hardware as well (well for $200, you would hope lol).

With the above mentioned, I did a bit more investigation on this and the area where it is controlled in the registry is under HKLM -> Software -> Windows -> Current Version -> MMDevices -> Audio -> Capture -> (stereo mix registry key)
To ensure this is where the devices were enumerated, I purposely typed a text message in the registry string and it modified the text under recording devices. Therefore, until a direct explanation is given from Asus about this, I will hold to the feeling that it can be added via registry with the right entry under the capture key in the registry. The reason why it's probably non-existent is probably due to some stupid DRM bs they keep shoving down our throats.

Although I see the point that the CM8788 is enumerated as a PCI\VEN_13F6 ETC, ETC
And the CM8888 is enumerated as a HDAUDIO device.

I hope maybe Asus engineering can finally explain if it can be done, and if it CAN'T, provide a detailed reason as to why it can't.
But maybe the right explanation is it CAN do it in hardware, it's just disabled and requires something to enable it.
Doesn't make sense to go backwards on features when you push a new soundcard. SMH.

Raja
Level 13
The only thing I was told was it would take 8+ months and it is unlikely it will be added at this point.

-Raja

AMDWiZARD
Level 7
They told you it would take 8 months for them to add the "Stereo Mix" recording option to the drivers? Or are you talking about another feature?