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View Full Version : So check this out... I think I know why we get throttled



Bojamijams
02-23-2012, 07:43 PM
From what I understand (and do correct me if wrong) the throttling that happens to us is due to inadequate power from the power supply (which is why it doesn't occur during Prime95 stress test because the graphics card isn't being utilized, but as soon as a game is fired up, then it happens)

Well Chastity posted this a few days ago in the Throttlestop sticky up above

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?2329-ATTENTION-G73-53SW-Owners-CPU-Throttling-to-798mhz-and-how-to-fix-it&p=77777&viewfull=1#post77777

So if we exceed the 150watts, which we do under gaming (especially since a lot of like to overclock the GPU), then that would be why the chip starts throttling, yeah? And if we disable the throttle, we draw more then 150W and we could start getting freezes.

Not impressed by her solution (which basically means an extra $100 from us, without offering any trade-ins) but does this solve the WHY?

dstrakele
02-23-2012, 07:46 PM
In http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?3322-Sandybridge-Throttle-Issue-and-Workaround, Chastity posts:

Sandybridge Throttle Issue and Workaround

When the system is under load, especially when the GPU and CPU max out, like say, when you are gaming, the BIOS/Chipset has a safety feature that will throttle down the system to prevent damage. Unfortunately I feel that the protection is triggered too easily, and many people will have a performance loss while playing their favorite games.

This will require a BIOS fix, but until then, there is a great workaround provided by Unclewebb. It's called ThrottleStop, and version 3 was updated to support Sandybridge systems. The culprit is the Bidirectional PROCHOT function, which handles this throttle feature. What you want to do is disable it, and it only needs to be configured once every boot-up, until a BIOS update exists. Also config it to Start Minimized if you are going to have it start at Windows boot.

I believe this is the more likely explanation, since CPU Throttling can be worked around with ThrottleStop using the stock power adapter.

Bojamijams
02-23-2012, 07:51 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be that 'is trigger easily' but rather that they shipped the unit with undersized power supply.

Which, unfortunately means that there probably will be no bios fix (how else can they explain why its taking them THIS long?) but rather the only fix is to spend ~$100 to fix their mistake.

fostert
02-24-2012, 12:25 AM
I agree fully that ASUS cheaped out on the power supply for the G74: the following is my estimate of the minimum wattage that the G74 needs at "full throttle":

Core i7 2630QM Processor TDP (max)= 45W
NVIDIA 560M (max) = 75W
Chimei Innolux 17.3 LED (N173HGE-L11/L21) = 9.3W
Seagate Momentus 7200.4 500GB 7200RPM (x 2) = 3.1W each x 2 = 6.2W
Intel HM65 Chipset TDP = 3.9W

Total ~ 140W. This doesn't even account for the power required by the motherboard! In desktops you always bank on another 75W for just the motherboard (when you're buying a PSU for example), but since the G74's is smaller it'll probably be closer to half that, say 35W. So thats 175 watts right there, that you're trying to pull from a 150W supply. No wonder Chastity warns against it.

Whether a higher wattage PSU fixes the throttling issue is another thing. I personally doubt it, but this would be easy to test: anyone who has bought one of those 180W supplies could try and recreate the conditions for throttling (run Prime95 and furmark together for example) and see. I bet it still happens.

dstrakele
02-24-2012, 12:50 AM
It does make you wonder if it would help out some of the folks whose USB 3.0 HDD's stop transfer in the middle of a backup or copying a large file....

Bojamijams
02-24-2012, 12:53 AM
I would love to try it if ASUS would offer a trade-in program... not like they can't repurpose these 150W's for non-gamer 17 inch laptops.

I just feel cheated for having to spend a $100 for a PS on top of everything.

fostert
02-24-2012, 01:12 AM
As mentioned I don't think its the wimpy power supply thats causing the CPU to downclock, so the 150 W will have to do us. Besides, just think of it: its much lighter to carry around than a 180W PSU!

If you want to be sure and not spend the cash, just go to your local university Physics department, borrow a tuneable DC power supply, set to 19V and >8 amps and rig a connection to your adaptor plug. I have access to a bunch of these: I may give it a go when I have some time.

Chastity@ASUS
02-24-2012, 05:25 PM
I'd like to clarify:

I was only offering the suggestion for people who want to overclock their systems, which runs the system out of spec. If you do not overclock, the 150w PSU is just fine for handling the loads. People who want to eek out more performance by overclocking may benefit by upgrading the PSU, and if you link to where I suggested, you can order a 180w PSU refurbed for $40. If you want to pay for new, that is up to you.

Some people have suggested that they use the 150w psu as a foot warmer in winter :)

Chastity@ASUS
02-24-2012, 06:02 PM
It does make you wonder if it would help out some of the folks whose USB 3.0 HDD's stop transfer in the middle of a backup or copying a large file....

those HDDs you refer to are units that operate on a larger power draw than the standard USB spec.

For example, the WD External USB 1TB drive requires 5v 0.7a for proper usage, and the USB spec is 5v 0.5a. Many PC makers have ports supplying 1.0a, but on notebooks, where power consumption is a factor, many stick to USB spec. In comparison, the Seagate USB 1TB drive only requires the 0.5a, and has no issues.

On the G74SX, the USB 3 port can be enabled to supply 0.9a with the Quick Charge feature.

In conclusion, if your external HDD does not work on the power supplied by our USB ports, then it's out of spec. :)

dstrakele
02-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Yeah - that Ai Charger Plus is a nice little utility. I like that it can charge my cell phone from the laptop battery even when the laptop is shut down and that you can configure it to stop charging once the battery reaches a certain low percentage level, so you don't ever run the laptop battery down completely.

Since the laptop is usually sitting in front of me when I'm watching the tube, I may as well top off the cell phone battery while I'm at it... And if you're traveling with your laptop, no need to carry an extra cell phone battery.

Quandth
02-24-2012, 06:20 PM
Chastity the Targus unit comes with 3 tips, L1 L2 and L3. Which is the one used for the G74? Or you bought an extra tip?

Chastity@ASUS
02-24-2012, 06:24 PM
One pack the L1 tip worked (black with groove), on another, the L2 tip (yellow) worked. One of the two will. :)

Invincible
02-25-2012, 12:43 PM
I dont think that PSU is cause of throthling it's mistake
MSI GT780R have 170W PSU with GF570M and same 150W with 560M so it have to be the common problem not only asus but i never heard from MSI owners about throttling
If we talk about hardware, 2670QM consuming 40-43W only while 100% 4C/8T loading and about 20-25W during gameplay

Symb
02-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Hmmm.. This was a surprise indeed. I don't think though that you can fix any power issues with throttlestop-software, but still, HWinfo64 shows that CPU alone, or CPU + whatever IA cores stand for, takes 70w under full load (if I'm reading it right, cpu package power ~38w and IA cores power 33w), and there you can add the GPU power consumption, which neither of those readings are presenting, am I right? And we should be pretty close to the 150w, IF the reported 75w is anywhere near what the GPU is actually hogging in this current setup.

But anyway when you push the GTX560M to it's absolute limits, like I've done, the power issues could be the reason for artifacts and other errors when trying to take every drop of juice out of it.

aviwil
02-28-2012, 10:21 AM
those HDDs you refer to are units that operate on a larger power draw than the standard USB spec.

For example, the WD External USB 1TB drive requires 5v 0.7a for proper usage, and the USB spec is 5v 0.5a. Many PC makers have ports supplying 1.0a, but on notebooks, where power consumption is a factor, many stick to USB spec. In comparison, the Seagate USB 1TB drive only requires the 0.5a, and has no issues.

On the G74SX, the USB 3 port can be enabled to supply 0.9a with the Quick Charge feature.

In conclusion, if your external HDD does not work on the power supplied by our USB ports, then it's out of spec. :)

Chastity - all this is only for those External USB drives which are taking power only from USB , or even those which have their own electric power connection to the mains ?

fostert
02-29-2012, 03:27 AM
Chastity - all this is only for those External USB drives which are taking power only from USB , or even those which have their own electric power connection to the mains ?

Chastity's comment refers only to drives that draw their power from USB2.0 (max 500ma @ 5V = 2.5W for this standard), and not drives that have their own separate power supply.

codename47
02-29-2012, 01:39 PM
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?2329-ATTENTION-G73-53SW-Owners-CPU-Throttling-to-798mhz-and-how-to-fix-it&p=14970&viewfull=1#post14970

Yes that very well could be part of the problem, but its already been proven that using a higher watt psu such as the 180w one, does not stop the throttling. I actually just got my 180w earlier this week and it definitely throttles no matter what unless I use throttlestop.

Now we just have to keep hoping that Asus finds the exact problem, and puts out a solution for us, since it seems not many care now, but this will only get worse as more demanding applications are found to cause throttling.

tkd_ron
03-06-2012, 07:46 PM
so if I am not overclocking, is it ok to use throttle stop with the 150w power supply ? because throttle stop really make my games run better.