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View Full Version : Z590 Apex motherboard goes on and off



Brutus7284
05-21-2021, 07:31 AM
Tomorrow,
when I switch on my computer, the mainboard goes ON and the fans spin, mainboard goes OFF, and after two seconds the computer boots up. Computer is never without power. Hardware: Windows 10 Pro 20H2, Bios 0901, 11900k, Asus RTX 3090 OC, SSD M2 500 Samsung and G.SKILL 3200, Asus Thor 850W
I only started the mainboard with CPU and memory, the same problem, I also changed memories, the same problem. Mainboard battery changed and CMOS performed, did not need anything

https://youtu.be/b2RDb0cq_JY

MfG Brutus7284

Silent Scone@ROG
05-21-2021, 07:58 AM
Hello,

This is normal behaviour depending on the board and UEFI settings. Some onboard controllers require a power cycle. Memory training may also require the power to cycle before POST.

Brutus7284
05-21-2021, 08:19 AM
I wrote that the computer is not de-energized, LEDs are on on the mainboard and the power button lights up, so the computer is not de-energized

Silent Scone@ROG
05-21-2021, 08:31 AM
I wrote that the computer is not de-energized, LEDs are on on the mainboard and the power button lights up, so the computer is not de-energized

Yes, I'm aware you're not cycling the AC. This is still normal behaviour depending on the conditions above

Brutus7284
05-21-2021, 08:38 AM
I have had an Asus motherboard for the last three years and never did such a fault occur, how can that be normal behavior

kvarq
05-21-2021, 08:47 AM
Yeah, at least yours is staying a longer time and checking something, and indeed this time is about the power cycle, had this previous generations also from time to time, so it's... "normal".

Mine instead when I turn on the computer from time to time it just jumps into 1 second loop, like an endless restart, and does stays forever in that loop, it's just powering up for a bit then turn off, then restart again. If I'm turning off the computer from the power button the loop continues.
I've been reseating again the cpu, video card, M2 dimm, DDR4 etc nothing.
The ONLY workaround is to remove the battery or to power off the power supply and keep the power button for 1 minute. And saw this happening to other users as well.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?123891-ASUS-APEX-XIII-CPU-and-RAM-ERRRROR/page2#post833971

So sorry I thrown money down to the toilet with this board, well, such is life.

Silent Scone@ROG
05-21-2021, 08:51 AM
Yeah, at least yours is staying a longer time and checking something, and indeed this time is about the power cycle, had this previous generations also from time to time, so it's... "normal".

Mine instead when I turn on the computer from time to time it just jumps into 1 second loop, like an endless restart, and does stays forever in that loop, it's just powering up for a bit then turn off, then restart again. If I'm turning off the computer from the power button the loop continues.
I've been reseating again the cpu, video card, M2 dimm, DDR4 etc nothing.
The ONLY workaround is to remove the battery or to power off the power supply and keep the power button for 1 minute. And saw this happening to other users as well.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?123891-ASUS-APEX-XIII-CPU-and-RAM-ERRRROR/page2#post833971

So sorry I thrown money down to the toilet with this board, well, such is life.

Continuous cycles sounds like training failure, the memory isn't stable.

kvarq
05-21-2021, 09:54 AM
memory has been stable on Apex XI and XII, plus, I'm using the same processor 10900K, which paired with XII worked great
I've been running linpack and GSAT on XIII as well, no errors shown
plus, the loop is almost under one second, so no code is shown on the QLED...

yeah, in the meantime I also used a 1000W Seasonic Titanium, same stuff...

maybe BIOS still needs some work?
I already tried 0901, I'll try also 0902...

Silent Scone@ROG
05-21-2021, 10:01 AM
memory has been stable on Apex XI and XII, plus, I'm using the same processor 10900K, which paired with XII worked great
I've been running linpack and GSAT on XIII as well, no errors shown
plus, the loop is almost under one second, so no code is shown on the QLED...

yeah, in the meantime I also used a 1000W Seasonic Titanium, same stuff...

maybe BIOS still needs some work?
I already tried 0901, I'll try also 0902...

As above, then. Power cycles are normal depending on the board and controllers present.

If there are multiple cycles then it does sound like memory training.

Return the system to optimised defaults including no XMP or overclocking and see if the problem continues. POST stress test stability and OS stability when overclocking are not one and the same thing.

kvarq
05-22-2021, 04:49 PM
those cycles are not ending, unless I turn off completely the power supply and keep the power button 30 sec
as I said these are under a second, computer just does not have time to even show something on that QLED

then: what 7F error could be? this occurs from time to time when powering on the computer, I checked the video card, reseated even several times, it still pops up from time to time...
trying lots of bios versions so far, every time after flashing a new bios, this error occurs...
even if I power off the computer, after restart still is stuck on 7F
I have to do the same, shut down the power supply, keep the power button for 30 secs, after restart it is ok

same components were working fine on Apex XII

thank you very much

Shamino
05-25-2021, 01:59 AM
Hanging at 7f usually means somethings unstable, sometimes ram but a lot more time cache if you are overclocked on cache or disable ring downbin

kvarq
05-25-2021, 05:40 AM
cache is low, both values set at 44, ring downbin disabled
same settings used on apex XII, manual overclock, 5.0GHz with 1.27V, BCLK disabled, also TVB, speed step, speed shift, c-states disabled

anyways, when having under 1 sec loops or stuck at 7F, not even reseating CPU does not hep, although everything is powered off the ONLY workaround is to remove the battery or to power off the power supply and keep the power button for 1 minute, and saw this happening to other users as well...
then everything is fine... for a while

same 10900K, same ram, same SSD, sound and video card worked perfectly on Apex XII
even borrowed another power supply to rule out this

Shamino
05-25-2021, 09:34 AM
so i sumise that those are 2 seperate issues, sometimes hang at 7f
and sometimes cold boot will cycle quickly repeatedly (since you cant even see the qcodes then it must not be 7f)

kvarq
05-25-2021, 11:34 AM
Exactly, there are 2 separate issues...
From time to time code 7F occurs, randomly, when I start of the computer or just after a new bios is installed - EZ or flash, does the same - (in which situation there is no setting applied, so it should be really default)... even if I'm installing a new bios, first restart gets stuck to 7F, just after I'm taking off the battery or holding power button half a minute with power supply off, it restarts and the first screen press F1 etc appears

Then, some other times when starting the computer, that endless loop under a second occurs, even if I'm shutting down the computer, after restart it does the same, also have to do the battery or button trick

Suspected power supply, cables, replaced those completely, reconnecting everything many times, then reseat the CPU, GPU etc, nothing helped beside the battery or the power button hold.
Then I read that other users have the same issue with Apex XIII from time to time.

So probably many things are changed to Apex XIII from XII... Maybe it's the design, bios, I don't know...

In my case, I had another problem before, I had to connect the extra power connector (labeled "D" in the manual, located in the MB's lower area, probably juicing more power to PCIe), otherwise I couldn't play any game or run any 3D benchmark, as computer suddenly restarted... so probably the 3090 KingPin was too much for Apex XIII, GPU-Z shows over 75W power draw from PCIe... On Apex XII everything was just fine.

Thank you very much.

Shamino
05-25-2021, 01:27 PM
im trying to find some hints from the words here and at least in the video of Brutus7284, post code "d6" appeared even though he has already plugged in a Video Card.
with the additional power connector you have plugged in it at least it rules out "juice"
is it possible to observe with a different card? im trying to recall similar experiences in the past, i could think of was when i was using a seperate power supply for the pcie's and somehow current was flowing into the board from the psu, which shouldnt from traidtional vga designs but things have changed a lot since then.

kvarq
05-25-2021, 02:45 PM
Regarding the Brutus video, well, in the end his computer is getting somewhere, video is ending eventually with the AO code, his computer is just doing some power cycles, as SilentScone stated, I noticed this also on other Apex boards form time to time, had different components back then, so yeah, that behavior is... normal.

I don't have another video card right now. At least I'm happy that plugging in the additional connector computer does not restart during gaming anymore...
As I said, GPU-Z shows 76+W PCIe power draw during Port Royal for instance, saw other RTX 3090 screens and never saw that much, 60-ish W or something, probably KingPin requires more. As far as I am aware of I think the PCIe power is limited around 70-75W?
But never had this issue on Apex XII, using the same card for months already...
Why did I purchase Apex XIII when Apex XII was just fine? Can't answer that :)))
What's more interesting, is that before plugging the additional connector I have been trying lots of bios versions, so the older they were, the later restart during gaming occurred. I even got 0106 version, which has been the most stable so far. But after a while, with that one restarted too... Anyways, after plugging in the connector D restart during gaming disappeared, no matter the bios version. BTW, using 0901 now, seems a bit smoother in games compared to 0902/0903...

Anyways, still remaining the other two separate issues, for me it's still weird how these are solved only by removing battery or holding power button for 30 secs with power supply off, as I said, not even reseating CPU did not helped...

Thank you.

Edit: could it be that I'm using a 10900K processor? Board should handle both 10th and 11th though. Or maybe different bios version should be written then, who knows...
But I did the bios updates both ways, EZ and flash, was hoping that maybe one way will "dodge" the microcode or something, but the result is the same.

Shamino
05-25-2021, 04:53 PM
removing battery : typically pressing clear cmos button at rear io should achieve the same.
if it doesn't perhaps some setting in the super i/o then, maybe corrupted data? so you have not changed any of the APM settings right? like state after AC power loss, ERP etc?

kvarq
05-25-2021, 05:47 PM
AMP is default, so everything is off/disabled there
fast boot disabled

also, as I stated, 7F occurs also just after every bios update restart... it doesn't get to the very first screen after restart, gets stuck, unless I do the power button stuff...

after the first two very very annoying days I just wanted to return the board, but I did the mistake to buy this stuff from a dodgy store, computeruniverse.net, they are not even answering to my e-mails...
so I'm stuck with this now...

Shamino
05-25-2021, 06:05 PM
take a pic of the bios "main" page, the bios "cpu configuration" page and the v/f point offset page just to see if any abnormalities can be seen there.

kvarq
05-25-2021, 06:47 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/v4RqdXfw/210525214208.png (https://postimg.cc/v4RqdXfw) https://i.postimg.cc/gxvMcRHX/210525214247.png (https://postimg.cc/gxvMcRHX) https://i.postimg.cc/HJd6rx6S/210525214257.png (https://postimg.cc/HJd6rx6S) https://i.postimg.cc/gwsN8W5G/210525214312.png (https://postimg.cc/gwsN8W5G) https://i.postimg.cc/N90bxnqm/210525214328.png (https://postimg.cc/N90bxnqm) https://i.postimg.cc/bDFgVRpM/210525214337.png (https://postimg.cc/bDFgVRpM)

Shamino
05-26-2021, 04:26 AM
All looks fine. When the cycking happens see id the dual bios led stays at the correct side since its a dual biosboard

kvarq
05-26-2021, 05:41 AM
yeah, just did some bios swaps last night, first restart after every bios change got stuck 7F of course, but clear mos seems to work, after that, it restarts showing the first screen "press F1" etc so probably super i/o is fine
I'm gonna do some trials again, to see which one is the most stable (0707, 0901 and gonna give another try for 0903), I would keep 0106 to be honest, but that one being from Dec/Jan I don't know if RBAR for nvidia 3xxx is properly implemented

probably things will settle down after some more bios versions as usual...

Grimpak
05-29-2021, 06:34 PM
so yeah, got around getting one of these, and at first I though I had the same problem as OP, but even after I updated the bios to the latest version, the constant on and offs seem to be memory training related, yes. 1 second power-up and down, no errors on Qcode, and it sometimes does it like 4-5... 10 times in a row, but it boots on by itself. Sometimes it's immediate tho.


My guess? maybe it's really some bios memory training boot-up related bug or instability that makes it go on loops like this. Better wait for newer bios releases.

kvarq
05-31-2021, 09:40 AM
I see that you're on 11th...
to be completely honest, I had no patience to see how many loops I had, but in my case there were way more than 10...

most likely it is still needed a lot of work on the bios side...
there are still power, stability, compatibility also performance issues with 10th and 11th as well
I wonder if they will try to make separate bios for 10th and 11th, some problems will go away?

Grimpak
05-31-2021, 01:07 PM
well, whatever it is tho, I hit the same snag yesterday, and only reverting to the secondary bios with
0506 version I managed to boot back.

Think I'll stay on this one for the time being, or is there some more recent more stable version besides this one?

kvarq
06-01-2021, 10:22 AM
until they will release something official, I'm using 0903 - it's almost a week already (link in the first post here (https://community.hwbot.org/topic/205829-rog-maximus-xiii-apex/#comments))
did not have any restart loops so far, just the usual 7F error after the first restart, but it's solved using the power button trick (keeping power button for 30 sec while the power supply is completely off)

interesting part is that RBAR is working worse on Apex XIII than XII, so I'm keeping it off... until they will eventually fix it... tried all bios versions, something's not right...
have stuttering with that one on, Apex XII was just fine, actually saw some improvements

also regarding the USB stuff - this board is advertised to have enhanced functionality for the high polling rate mice or keyboards, well, in the end these have to be reconnected after restart occasionally as not seen, and in general I'll have to low the rate under 1000Hz to not have stutter in games - with Apex XII these were just fine

so there are a lot of things to be fixed this generation, probably will take a while...

Grimpak
06-01-2021, 01:13 PM
Awesome. Soon as I can, will check it out.