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AsusMan
10-11-2012, 06:28 AM
I been comparing Asus with other brands and I am getting confused..

Why are other brands cheaper than Asus, but have better tech specs?


The ones I saw were MSI and SAGER. They had better specs for less money? Is there a reason for this?

Does Asus cost more because of better cooling system and design?


I found the prices on xotic pc.

hsp25
10-11-2012, 06:35 AM
Asking such a question on an asus forum is bound to get biased replies don't you think?

I only have an i7 hp (dv6) and am not happy with it

AsusMan
10-11-2012, 06:36 AM
Asking such a question on an asus forum is bound to get biased replies don't you think?

Well, some people are not biased!

and why is this board so dead!

There is like 70 people viewing it, but no post!

I need some help!!!!!!!!

WontonNoodle
10-11-2012, 06:59 AM
for 17 inch, Asus has the best cooling. for 15 inch the G55 cooling is about the same as other 15 inchers with same specs, which is disappointing for me since the fan is so big and heavy.

c_man
10-11-2012, 09:18 AM
You have a link in my sig with my reasons for buying the G series.

As far as specs go, I do own a Clevo. A very very good laptop, BUT it's loud and hot as hell. And I'm not the only one saying this.

Sure you can't compare a 680M with a 670M, but it's not all about numbers. I know for many people it is, but not for me. If it was, I would go desktop in a second and kill any laptop, no matter how well it performs. So laptops are a delicate subject, you need to balance some features.

About the brand itself, that is another delicate problem. This year I found that there is no good brand. All had some sort of problem. At least G series are cool, not very loud (well, G75 makes a bit of idle noise that gets me sometimes) and can deliver top performance in these conditions all day long.

Zygomorphic
10-11-2012, 10:22 AM
for 17 inch, Asus has the best cooling. for 15 inch the G55 cooling is about the same as other 15 inchers with same specs, which is disappointing for me since the fan is so big and heavy.

@WontonNoodle, ASUS changed the cooling design for the G55 from two fans to one. Hence the reason the cooling is so much worse than the older G53 models. G75 still uses two fans, so its cooling is better than just about anything minus a desktop.

OP: Is ASUS better, yes and no. Top reliability, yes: Toshiba, ASUS, Apple, and Sony.
* Toshiba makes next to no computers with 1080p :(, but their customer service is good.
* Apple has the best customer service (better than ASUS, and I'm a mod here...let's see how long that lasts. ;) ) but they won't let you upgrade anything, and their computers are insanely hot. Think, sitting at idle Windows desktop and the computer will get hot enough to hurt your fingers.
* Sony is the Windows version of Apple, same proprietary problems, except that their computers make noise but don't overheat as badly.
* ASUS has mediocre customer service, but they cost less than the other three, and the forms are second to none...if I do say so myself. :cool:

I'd buy ASUS over MSI or SAGER any day.

chrsplmr
10-11-2012, 11:32 AM
... I'd buy ASUS over MSI or SAGER any day.

... Dittos.

It is all in how you 'weigh' better/best. Bang for the 'buck' ? Asus all day.c.

john_from_ohio
10-11-2012, 12:27 PM
I been comparing Asus with other brands and I am getting confused..

Why are other brands cheaper than Asus, but have better tech specs?


The ones I saw were MSI and SAGER. They had better specs for less money? Is there a reason for this?

Does Asus cost more because of better cooling system and design?


I found the prices on xotic pc.

What do you want to do with it?

My G75VW is a beast ... and I still use my 2011 macbook air quite a bit ( especially for traveling ) ...

I really really want one of the new macbook pro 15 inch with retina displays ... probably buying it in early 2013 or ( depending on what comes out ) replacing 2011 macbook air with macbook pro 13 inch ( only if it has retina display ).

It really depends on what you plan to do with your machine and what your budget range is ...

finalhour
10-11-2012, 02:45 PM
I been comparing Asus with other brands and I am getting confused..

Why are other brands cheaper than Asus, but have better tech specs?


The ones I saw were MSI and SAGER. They had better specs for less money? Is there a reason for this?

Does Asus cost more because of better cooling system and design?


I found the prices on xotic pc.

I would say, yes cooling is better on the G75 (which I own) than ANY other gaming-grade laptop I've seen. My last ASUS, M-51Sn, had AWFUL cooling, however that was 4 years ago.....

Anyways, yes MSI is cheaper, yes they are just as nice and have cool backlit keyboards, and yes MSI laptops have (in my experience) terrible cooling and heat up to levels that make using it on your lap unadvisable. I've never heard of Sager.

For all of these questions though, you reference Xotic PC. I hope you're considering the stock configurations that are available elsewhere because ANY computer that is upgraded/customized by Xotic is going to cost you a premium on top of what the computer would cost you at the normal specs.

finalhour
10-11-2012, 02:48 PM
Well, some people are not biased!

and why is this board so dead!

There is like 70 people viewing it, but no post!

I need some help!!!!!!!!

You posted at 1:35am my timezone (Central Time, USA)....this forum has an international audience, we do sleep you know.....Also sometimes people like to gawk at...well....somewhat silly forum posts

cl-scott
10-11-2012, 04:50 PM
@WontonNoodle, ASUS changed the cooling design for the G55 from two fans to one. Hence the reason the cooling is so much worse than the older G53 models. G75 still uses two fans, so its cooling is better than just about anything minus a desktop.

OP: Is ASUS better, yes and no. Top reliability, yes: Toshiba, ASUS, Apple, and Sony.
* Toshiba makes next to no computers with 1080p :(, but their customer service is good.
* Apple has the best customer service (better than ASUS, and I'm a mod here...let's see how long that lasts. ;) ) but they won't let you upgrade anything, and their computers are insanely hot. Think, sitting at idle Windows desktop and the computer will get hot enough to hurt your fingers.
* Sony is the Windows version of Apple, same proprietary problems, except that their computers make noise but don't overheat as badly.
* ASUS has mediocre customer service, but they cost less than the other three, and the forms are second to none...if I do say so myself. :cool:

I'd buy ASUS over MSI or SAGER any day.

Not that most people will care, but Apple's customer service comes at the expense of Apple regularly abusing everyone on the other side of things. Apple is like the abusive spouse, or dare I even say pimp. In public they're all smiles and kind words. Then when the public isn't looking, they start punching, kicking, and slamming "partner" companies' heads into walls. All of those things you see going on at Foxconn factories over in China is absolutely just the very tip of the iceberg. That is going on up and down the entire supply chain with Apple.

I met one of Toshiba's engineers at an old job... Nice guy. Aside from the rather "brilliant" decision to sandwich two high end video cards in the Qossimo x305 (think it was 305) systems which ended about as well as you'd think, and the obvious corner cutting on the low end, I have nothing too bad to say about Toshiba. Trying to find someone who would fix those Toshiba units was fun too. Wasn't really involved in a lot of the details, but apparently Toshiba wanted some ridiculous amount of money for the cards, and then none of the major companies like Flextronics, Bizcom, Micromedic, etc, wanted to touch them for the same reason. I remember seeing stacks of 20-30 such units stuck on a cart by my old supervisor's desk because we had no way to work on them. Top management wouldn't sign off on letting us order parts from Toshiba at the price they wanted, no one else would take the outsourcing business.

Sony likes to think they're the PC version of Apple, but really they're just plain overpriced. Sony's entertainment division has been systematically destroying their various hardware businesses for ages now. Why they let executives in charge of producing movies, music, and TV shows have any say over what hardware goes into a TV, computer, or game console is beyond me. They should have spun off the entertainment division ages ago.

bignazpwns
10-11-2012, 06:10 PM
People really like the claim the G75 has the best cooling but does it really? Nope. When i put the 3610qm from my G7 into my EON17-SLX that cpu ran much cooler then the G75. Mind you this system is a base $1,800 system and the total cost over mine was a little over $5,000 and this system can cool a i7 3920XM at 4.5ghz pretty good. When you look at the cooling on this you see all copper where the G75's is a cheaper Alu. fins on copper heat pipe mix.

Now when you look at other stuff like ports. Again most of those Sags, Alienwars and what not stomp the G75 into the ground on this because they have way more ports. If you are using it as a desktop replacement your SOL because you have no out for a subwoofer like most other gaming systems.

Now in a fair fight with a G&5 Vs a MSI, Sager or a similar priced system for a over all better system i have to give it to the MSI and Sagers. More useful ports, Better sound and on some better lcd pannels "Some people got crap LCD's on their G75's that are plagued with problems im lucky and my pannel works great and is the same one used in my old MSI G70." Also the keyboard on Sager and MSI are much much much better and the back light on them are very bright unlike the extremely dim G75.


When you ask a question these forums it all boils down to no one will admit anything bad about they system they own. You go over to the mac forums and its the same thing they will tell you macs are the best thing ever and nothing can come close to them.

Is the G75 worth the $1250? No. At the end of the day it offers nothing over the cheaper systems and the overall body is not all that great. I would like to see a little more work from them on making the seams a bit better because i seen better seams on some of the $450 Toshiba's. The price should be around $1,050-$1,100 the system is over priced "Nothing like the Alienware's tho that are usually $500 over priced".


Asus Says this is a ROG laptop but its not. ROG was all about state of the art stuff with tons of features. My Rampage IV Extreme has way more features then the G75 will ever have and way more control then the G75 will ever have in its bios. Heck we cant even adjust the memory timing in the G75 . The ROG promises Absolute leading performance And every other ROG product i tested delivered. However the G74 and after have failed pretty hard on this. The G73 was a great system with a great power and performance ratio and and said ROG. The new systems just say lower end gaming system. Im not seeing any of the things that make it a ROG other then the branding on it.

Where are these features that most other systems now have but never made it to the G75? Wheres our SSD caching, Optimus, SLI or crossfirex, customize back lighting etc. I never seen anything in the G74 and G75 that make it a real ROG other then Asus using that branding to move some units. Everyone who i talked to who started off with a G series and later went to a Sager or similar said it was like night and day and the systems are just much better over all.


People say its a desktop replacement. Ok i'll forget about the fact it does not have Optimus since you dont need that on a desktop system. However we do need good sound. The sound on the laptop sucks at best then we got a mic and speaker port, Yeah you can get sound from hdmi but your tv speakers are not what gamers want. They want 7:1 goodness. Im lucky i got a 60 inch with a nice audio system so i can use that. But if you got a normal display your doomed to crappy audio with a G75 with no lows. And sound is what really pulls you into a game.


So bottom line is Asus best? No but you cant define best without picking somthing. Best in cooling? No other systems have better cooling and can cool the xm's overclocked pretty good. Best value? No other systems offer the same for less. Best looking? Perhaps but i dont like the G75 i prefer the G74 Lamborghini that was a very good looking system. Best for features? God no. Best supprt? Support and Asus? Thats a first and they cant ever come close to Dell/Alienware who imo make up for the price with their support every Alienware or dell i had was fixed the next day after i had a problem compared to Asus's month turn around. From what i seen over the years Asus has started to decline in terms of produces and service. So i honestly cant say there the best at anything its just starting to have a Apple type feel. If i had to pick between a Asus G75 and a Sager NP9170 im picking the Sager every day of the week.



Also i agree with cl-scott on the apple support comment. For one they treat everyone like they are dumb even tho they kinda are for paying top $ for 2 year old tech and the second their is a issues they dont try to help you its because your dumb and dont know how to use the product aka your holding it wrong apple has said this 2 times because of a hardware issue. Atleast Asus is looking into the whole lines in the screen issue if it was apple they would of just say your looking at the display wrong.

c_man
10-11-2012, 06:50 PM
I agree and I don't. Since I have a Clevo, I see some people just consider them to be way too good. They are good, but not that good. I don't care that much about Clevo being all Cu, when it gets very very hot and makes a ton of noise. Yes, Asus has a great cooling system, designed for the parts it uses. Any other comparison is just not fair. And I have tried many laptops. None will keep things going as cool as a G. Please consider that CPU or GPU temp means nothing really if the laptop itself will burn you. Being a laptop, you will move it around. Even a G75 can be moved around and will not require a flat surface to work well. Other do. And being a laptop, there is a big chance you will use it in your lap.

Also, if lack of better sound output options is a problem, most likely an external USB card will be much more better than what manufacturers will use. And I can choose my level of performance.

Is not that we around here do not complain about Asus or G55/75. I think we do. And we do it daily. But I guess Asus does not listen. I've asked in the past why my G55 has OC options in BIOS, but G75 does not. The cooling is good on G75 to run 3610QM at 3.4Ghz all cores active with no problem at all. I've tested this myself. And if I could have a better BIOS with some decent failsafe features, I would go even higher. But since it does not, I went back to the original clocks and that was that, as I can't take resposability for what users might do if I tell them about some options.
I have complained about the panel many times. Those lines are not normal at all and there is no way this is just a software problem that will be solved who knows when. But still I kept one.
I have complained about the sound. It is a bad hardware solution. No future driver will ever fix it. Why did Asus not use the N76 sound is beyond me.
To be honest, I have little else to complain about. I would love to have real access to the fans (like in Clevo). Better QC as only this last one has a decent low noise (G75, while G55 was fine). Better chasis design for G55 so I don't have to tear it just to put in a simple mSATA SSD (G75 does not need mSATA since it has 2 bays and from my point of view, I would prefer G55 with 2 bays as well and no mSATA at all since it's just to expensive and not that fast and a dead end for that SSD). I can't think of anything else right now. It's not a real ROG laptop (G55 is more of a "ROGue" I guess), but there is still hope for future units. It not that hard, the laptops are good enough to take some punch. Hell, if some 670M here run just fine at 810Mhz (mine only goes up to 800 100% stable, but I use it at 755 just to have some room left), I guess a Kepler should be easier to handle. So I would say they are decent machines, poorly used by Asus. And I know that now someone will tell me that Asus plays it safe. Well, it's a ROG after all, Asus needs to take a chance.

At this point I recon other brands should learn more from Asus, not the other way around. Would I want to use another hot laptop? Well, not any time soon.

Shawnnepc
10-11-2012, 08:31 PM
As a FYI to all in the thread who have no idea what 'Sager' or 'Clevo' are:

Clevo is a Taiwanese OEM who manufactures 'white books' these are laptops that only have the most basic components.

These are sold to system builders like Sager,Mythlogic,AVA and Eurocom who customise the unit specs (GPUs,CPU,RAM etc)

It's about close to 'built to order' as you can get.

Clevo generally makes good and reliable products but are stuck in the 90's as far as design goes.

Your warranty largely depends on what system builder / VAR you purchase your unit from.

The other huge issue with Clevo is their variable build quality.

Some chassis will be excellent while others will be bargin bin terrible.

Good example would be their current models.

The P370EM has excellent cooling and is a step up in design but has TERRIBLE and cheap feeling build quality.

The P170EM gets very hot and has very old design but has solid build quality.

WontonNoodle
10-11-2012, 10:16 PM
I can't believe I was tricked by Asus marketing. I mean the sticker on the laptop says "Dual Fan Intelligent Cooling" right on there. No wonder my temps are so average...

Zygomorphic
10-12-2012, 01:23 AM
Yes, @cl-scott, I know about Apple's abusive policies...think Samsung. Samsung makes their CPUs, their displays, and Apple sues them for "copyright infringement".

A note about cooling: Copper is meaningless if the fans are powerful enough or the heatsink isn't designed properly. Designing a good cooling system for a notebook requires a lot of complicated and special engineering. It's not like a desktop.

dbassnut
10-12-2012, 05:43 AM
Hi Zygamorphic,
I thought the Asus G55 had 2 fans installed, side by side at the center back end of the board? I think I saw a photo somewhere showing this.
Could you check & let me know if it's a single fan or a dual fan system? By the way, asus advertise the G55 as coming with a dual fan cooling system, however, their website information can sometimes be wrong.

leeishom
10-12-2012, 07:47 AM
I been comparing Asus with other brands and I am getting confused..

Why are other brands cheaper than Asus, but have better tech specs?


The ones I saw were MSI and SAGER. They had better specs for less money? Is there a reason for this?

Does Asus cost more because of better cooling system and design?


I found the prices on xotic pc.

Asus, as a whole? Confused on what you are implying.

RTN66U, RTN56U and then G75. Oh, and another Asus Laptop. Wait!, plus my GF's Asus Laptop.

freefall
10-12-2012, 08:18 AM
Yes ASUS G55 has 2 fans in one uni-body side by side. And about the general question of the thread: I don't personally think that the OP should ask this kind of question on an ASUS forum! Maybe not even asking the question at all, but doing some research on his own, because there will always be someone that will express his own opinion which maybe the OP will not be asking of.

My advice is just go out there in some shops touch the computers by yourself feel how they work and handle and read some reviews and tear-downs to make some points for your self. Even if sometimes you like, lets say 4-5 laptops, get a piece of paper write the models of the laptops side by side and under each model write advantages and disadvantages, and just decide which one fits you best and go and buy it. That's it, after all you are the one that is going to be using it not all the people you are getting the suggestions from. Cheers mate :)

c_man
10-12-2012, 08:44 AM
I know what Clevo is, I have a real Clevo. They make their own laptops on some markets. But I agree with the last part, they are far from perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqDjAQgMaY&feature=g-like 6:11 and you will see the fans of G55. The GPU is on the right side of your laptop, while CPU is on the left. The main problem with this design is that OC the GPU will increase the CPU temp as well. I know people don't notice this since most use laptops for nothing much. At best, they max all the games and think that it's a measure for computer performance.

You can see in my sig the link for G75 tear as well, if you want to compare with other manufacturers.

Zygomorphic
10-12-2012, 10:30 AM
I has 2 fans, but one heatsink that curves around the two and that is what I confused with one fan. The G53SX has two fans and two heatsinks, meaning that the CPU and GPU temperatures are not linked.

WontonNoodle
10-12-2012, 11:03 AM
Yikes, I wish I knew this before I got the G55...... What's the point of regressing? Isn't the G55 heavier as well.... without a second heatsink.

c_man
10-12-2012, 12:18 PM
It's OK. You might get 100C CPU temp under heavy load if you OC the GPU. The GPU has a decent temp. Laptop remains cool.

But G55 has an incredible complicated design, this is for sure. Beats me why.

cl-scott
10-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Yes, @cl-scott, I know about Apple's abusive policies...think Samsung. Samsung makes their CPUs, their displays, and Apple sues them for "copyright infringement".

A note about cooling: Copper is meaningless if the fans are powerful enough or the heatsink isn't designed properly. Designing a good cooling system for a notebook requires a lot of complicated and special engineering. It's not like a desktop.

I don't want to take this too far off topic, but Apple has actually been slashing the order numbers for a lot of the contracts it has with Samsung, even AFTER winning the first round of the lawsuits. How dare Samsung defend itself and not cower before the almighty Apple?

Anyway, to bring this back to the topic at hand, you are absolutely right. Laptops are very finely calibrated machines, and a lot of careful engineering goes into the designing of the hardware. You don't want to just go messing with things in a laptop like you might on a desktop. The margin for error on laptops is significantly less.

Zygomorphic
10-12-2012, 11:48 PM
Yikes, I wish I knew this before I got the G55...... What's the point of regressing? Isn't the G55 heavier as well.... without a second heatsink.

The heatsink is bigger, about the same size, just the heat pipes curve around like a "C" with the open end facing you. I don't think it's heavier, but it might be. Either system is pretty hefty, to be honest.