PDA

View Full Version : My water-cooling case concept



Rocket_Assist
07-17-2011, 06:27 AM
This may not be the best category to post this in, but oh well.

Since the beginning of last february, I've been designing a line of cases aimed at water-coolers that would still be great for air-coolers.

I hope to pitch these cases to Antec, so a positive response here would be a big help.

There's the typhoon, aimed at people who want a smaller WC setup. ($120-140 retail)


mid-tower form factor
240mm radiator capacity internally
ATX/mATX motherboard compatible
ample cable management space
space for 3 HDDs/SSDs (hot-swap)
easy-remove drive bay covers
washable air filters
3 fans included


All feedback, suggestions, questions, and kind words are welcome.

Rocket_Assist
07-17-2011, 06:43 AM
There's also the Maelstrom for advanced/hardcore WCers ($180-220).


Full tower form factor
2x 360mm radiators plus 120mm radiator internal capacity
ATX/EATX/XL-ATX compatible (9 pci slots)
ample cable management space
Space for 6 HDDs/SSDs (hot-swap)
Easy-remove drive slot covers
Washable air filters
5 fans included

Six Foot Ginger
07-17-2011, 04:23 PM
who are these from?

where can you get them

Rocket_Assist
07-17-2011, 04:58 PM
They're concepts I designed. I want to pitch them to Antec.

I think they would be good cases for anyone who wants high airflow, is considering WCing, or is an avid Wcer. Being so flexible is, in my opinion, their best feature. They should also be significantly cheaper than the 800D and the TJ07

I'm probably going to redesign the Typhoon door to add more intakes/radiator slots in the next week. I think the maelstrom door style looks better anyway.

Cody_Irwin
07-18-2011, 03:11 AM
Ever think about trying to add water cooling holes for the tubes to the side where the gpu's are??? just wondering, never did WC cause I cant afford it, but Id preferably myself would think about tubing holes on the side always wondered why it wasnt done. Cause mainly every case has that air duct that isnt even used.

Rocket_Assist
07-18-2011, 05:11 AM
I think I know what you're talking about and some cases do have holes for tubing next to the pci slots on the back. Almost all Antec gaming cases have them. However, they would only do you good with an external radiator.

Cody_Irwin
07-18-2011, 11:36 PM
Well, TBH Looks like Corsair stole ur case =P

400R Mid-Tower Case

Has my idea too haha, but urs looks great too tbh, And I see what u mean about the holes and external radiator, but like I said I dont know anything at all about LC but could just give my 2cents. Thanks for letting me know man. Also I Like this for sure though, antec used to be my Case of choice, but most of their parts started becoming plastic, so when I built my new rig, I had to goto Coolermaster, for the Haf x for sure. Can you really deny a all metal rig with some Very hard plastic? lol.

My old rig still uses a Antec 900 V1 where it has the Headers mic and power button all the grounded together or w/e the problem was, as in the very first 900 not v1/v2/v3 the VERY first one XD. And a TPQ650 PSU wich might of went, but antec nicely gave me a new one regardless of the new model TP 650. Great guys, Always chattin with them. I hope ur idea works out man and you pitch it.

Rocket_Assist
07-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the update, but Corsair's case can only mount fans on the side panel. Both of the cases I designed will have brackets to hang a radiator on the drive storage tower and suck in air through the side panel.

Most of the case will be metal. The only plastic parts are the top and front pieces, just like the old Antec 900.

Like I said, a large and positive feedback here will be a big help. I really hope I get Antec to bring them to market.

Six Foot Ginger
07-19-2011, 07:56 PM
have you already talked to Antec?

xeromist
07-20-2011, 05:28 PM
I actually like that Typhoon. I have a mini P180 right now and I have a radiator mounted to the back...I hate it. I've never mounted an external rad before now and I don't think I'll do it again. It is always getting in the way and it looks ugly to me. If I could have a similar case with the rad mounted internally I would be a much happier camper.

Rocket_Assist
07-21-2011, 05:13 AM
have you already talked to Antec?

I actually got a response from Antec's product marketing manager. That was back at the end of february. He apreciated my work and seemed to like the Typhoon case. I haven't sent him the Maelstrom yet. However, he seemed skeptical if they would be a good investment for Antec or not. That's why I said a positive response here would really help.

Rocket_Assist
07-21-2011, 05:18 AM
Thanks, I designed it for people with small loops. I'm going to redesign the door to add room for another radiator that would be mounted like the one on the side of the Maelstrom (side door intakes). However, I'm trying to decide if it should be a single or double. I'm leaning towards a single so not to severely hurt potential Maelstrom sales.

xeromist
07-21-2011, 07:31 PM
I guess I can sort of see what he is saying. The water cooling market is relatively small so most of the cases that are designed with us in mind are either very expensive or include rad mounting almost as an afterthought. Having an inexpensive micro case built from the ground up for water cooling would be really nice but it would take some creative marketing to ensure success.

Also, if you haven't already you should post this to other enthusiast forums. We are seeing more traffic here, but a lot of that is notebook users and they won't be interested in desktop cases.

Six Foot Ginger
07-21-2011, 07:35 PM
you really need a design that can take on both air and water, ti be affective in today's market.

xeromist
07-21-2011, 09:52 PM
Yeah, it sounds like that's what Rocket Assist is going for. However his is water first and air second where every other affordable case is air only or water a distant second.

On an related note: it might be difficult to model, but if somehow the airflow of these cases could be modeled to show that they are effective as air cooled that might help the sales pitch. I'd be curious how many cases actually get this treatment. Based on observation it seems that a lot of cases were designed with the assumption that throwing some fans in the front and in the top or rear means good airflow. Meanwhile, back in reality, they have dead spots and pockets of hot air.

DarthBeavis
07-22-2011, 12:26 AM
have you already talked to Antec?this is a key question. you are going about this all wrong . . .posting drawings on a public forum for one when you hope to sell the design is a major mistake. I had done case mods for Antec and know them. If you need help let me know but please stop posting your designs.

Rocket_Assist
07-22-2011, 02:56 AM
Yeah, it sounds like that's what Rocket Assist is going for. However his is water first and air second where every other affordable case is air only or water a distant second.

On an related note: it might be difficult to model, but if somehow the airflow of these cases could be modeled to show that they are effective as air cooled that might help the sales pitch. I'd be curious how many cases actually get this treatment. Based on observation it seems that a lot of cases were designed with the assumption that throwing some fans in the front and in the top or rear means good airflow. Meanwhile, back in reality, they have dead spots and pockets of hot air.

I intended the cases to be equally adept at air and water cooling. That gives people options when they buy either case and a larger potential market for Antec. As far as airflow, the front and side fans are intakes while the back and top fans are exhaust. In theory the lower intake fans suck in cooler air,the air is heated, and rises towards the exhausts.

Rocket_Assist
07-22-2011, 03:03 AM
this is a key question. you are going about this all wrong . . .posting drawings on a public forum for one when you hope to sell the design is a major mistake. I had done case mods for Antec and know them. If you need help let me know but please stop posting your designs.

How so? Not a whole lot can be be seen and I'm not posting specifics beyond compatiblity, drive capacitiy, etc. Plus, not many people are going to put in the 60+ hours I have (research+modeling). My intent when I posted the cases here was to try to alieviate the worries Antec's chief marketing manager had about the profitability of the cases. That's why I'm looking for a large and positive response. Since you've worked with/for Antec, what do you suggest?

P.S. Antec's chief marketing manager and I have spoken several times via Email.

P.P.S. I'm not looking for more than a Maelstrom case, ~1000 dollars for a WC loop, and letter saying I helped design market products to help with college applications. If Antec wants to pay me more I wouldn't complain.

xeromist
07-22-2011, 05:37 PM
I intended the cases to be equally adept at air and water cooling. That gives people options when they buy either case and a larger potential market for Antec. As far as airflow, the front and side fans are intakes while the back and top fans are exhaust. In theory the lower intake fans suck in cooler air,the air is heated, and rises towards the exhausts.

The contribution of convection in cooling an ATX case is negligible. If possible you should have contiguous *active* airflow from your intake(s), across all heat sources, and out the exhaust(s). The ATX specification has this to some degree but it really wasn't designed for modern components. Following in the steps of other designs will work but it isn't perfect. I'm not really sure what the solution is but it seems like starting with a good fluid model would allow case designers to make the best of a bad specification.

Rocket_Assist
07-22-2011, 06:57 PM
The contribution of convection in cooling an ATX case is negligible. If possible you should have contiguous *active* airflow from your intake(s), across all heat sources, and out the exhaust(s). The ATX specification has this to some degree but it really wasn't designed for modern components. Following in the steps of other designs will work but it isn't perfect. I'm not really sure what the solution is but it seems like starting with a good fluid model would allow case designers to make the best of a bad specification.

I agree that convection is nowhere near as effective as a wind-tunnel effect, but it's better than nothing. The only options I can think of to get contiguous *active* airflow would be to put the mobo flat and have a wall of fans blowing down on it or to make a really wide case so air sucked in the front is pulled out by a line of fans on the back of the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the typical hotspots around the PSU and between grahpics cards? I was trying to make a design that created positive pressure. Because the PCI covers allow air to pass through this positive pressure should force air out between and around the graphics cards, eliminating the hotspot. I've never studied fluid dynamics so I could be way off.

xeromist
07-22-2011, 07:46 PM
Yes, and also the 5 1/4 bays where there is no fan blowing. Obviously you can't have a fan in front of an ODD and a 120mm fan blocks 3 bays so there is only so much that can be done.

I've seen cases with vented pci slot covers and that seems like a good idea but I really don't know what the net effect is on overall case temps and airflow. For all I know that could have been someone's grand idea that was never tested or modeled and it actually makes things worse.

I suppose that it doesn't really matter. An established company is going to have an established way of doing things. If Antec does fluid modeling on their cases then they would also want to model your case(s) as well before going into production. If this is something that they don't care about then it's unlikely to be the reason they would reject it. More likely they would reject based on ROI concerns.

I guess I just thought that knowing rather than guesses and theory is a more powerful selling point. Being able to point to a pretty picture and tell an executive why something is superior tends to make a bigger impact I think. OTOH, if you're not experienced with such things it could take a lot of time to learn and money if you have to buy software. It was just an idea, so if it doesn't make sense then just ignore it. :)

Rocket_Assist
07-23-2011, 02:42 AM
Yes, and also the 5 1/4 bays where there is no fan blowing. Obviously you can't have a fan in front of an ODD and a 120mm fan blocks 3 bays so there is only so much that can be done.

I've seen cases with vented pci slot covers and that seems like a good idea but I really don't know what the net effect is on overall case temps and airflow. For all I know that could have been someone's grand idea that was never tested or modeled and it actually makes things worse.

I suppose that it doesn't really matter. An established company is going to have an established way of doing things. If Antec does fluid modeling on their cases then they would also want to model your case(s) as well before going into production. If this is something that they don't care about then it's unlikely to be the reason they would reject it. More likely they would reject based on ROI concerns.

I guess I just thought that knowing rather than guesses and theory is a more powerful selling point. Being able to point to a pretty picture and tell an executive why something is superior tends to make a bigger impact I think. OTOH, if you're not experienced with such things it could take a lot of time to learn and money if you have to buy software. It was just an idea, so if it doesn't make sense then just ignore it. :)

Yes, no fans in the 5.25" bays. However, disk drives aren't used much beyond installing programs now adays. They usually sit dormant, I know mine does. As far as ROI, the cases cover ACers; those who are considering WC; and begining to advanced WCers. Like you said, the cases are WC first with AC as an EXTREMELY close second. The only loss they suffer is three 3.75" slots. But with 3TB drives who needs 6/9 drive slots?

As for the rest, welcome to the world of marketing and politics.:D

P.S. What do you think of the contrast of the black case W/ aluminum grills? I think it looks much better than all black.