PDA

View Full Version : Using the g750 without the battery



Ramer
09-13-2013, 04:53 PM
Hi guys!

Is it okay to use the laptop with the baterry removed and plugged to the outlet? Will there be any problems doing this?

Flea0
09-13-2013, 05:13 PM
absolutely not. In fact, it will help your battery last longer, especially if you store it in a cool, dark place at about half charge. Just be careful not to bend the exposed battery contacts on the laptop.

kingfish
09-13-2013, 05:15 PM
hi ramer, i thinks it's ok to use that way. the machine will run with full power option. i'm doing it every night.but i have to use, recharge and drain the battery every once in a while for maintenance purposes. BTW im a 3D user not a gamer.

hmscott
09-14-2013, 02:05 AM
Ramer, I don't think it helps/hurts to leave out the battery.

As long as you don't forget to run the battery(ies) in the laptop weekly to keep them charged to your desired level.

Bumping the power cable causing the laptop to lose power is depressing, that is what cured me of running without a battery :)

The charging circuit on the laptop is bypassing the battery if it is plugged in and charged. During intense CPU/GPU testing on my G750 while plugged in the battery remains cool to the touch while other areas of the laptop are hot/warm.

Many years ago I used to run without the battery in my laptops that would do it, but I didn't notice any increased battery life.

Keeping the battery in the laptop is probably the best idea.

UnfairAwesomeness
09-14-2013, 02:53 AM
How to keep your battery for charging past 80% or so? (so it will last many more cycles), keeping it charged at 100% is just slowly bricking the battery with no benefit for many users, other manufacturers have this option, but why not asus (or a software version would be useful I guess)

UnfairAwesomeness
09-14-2013, 02:54 AM
Leaving out the battery is just very inconvenient especially if someone accidentally bumps out the power cord from the wall or yanks it from the laptop

hmscott
09-14-2013, 03:07 AM
How to keep your battery for charging past 80% or so? (so it will last many more cycles), keeping it charged at 100% is just slowly bricking the battery with no benefit for many users, other manufacturers have this option, but why not asus (or a software version would be useful I guess)

The lithium ion charging cycle is complex, and the hardware/software to do it safely and efficiently are constantly being reviewed/improved.

I don't think we can assume we can outsmart the process by leaving the battery off the charger - and at what charge level should it be stored? 100%, 70%, 50%, less?

Likely as not Asus and the charging circuit hardware designers go to great effort to make sure the battery can remain in the laptop 100% of the time. It is the most likely operational mode for the end user, and has been for many years

What Asus has to say:
http://www.service.asus.com/#!battery-information/c1kun

More hits from the search that found that article: site:asus.com lithium ion battery charging
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aasus.com+lithium+ion+battery+charg ing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Here are a couple of articles that give a nice view into the complexity considered by the charging hardware designers:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

http://www.edn.com/design/power-management/4405282/Proper-Lithium-Ion-battery-charging-and-safety

And, one on long term storage of Consumer Lion batteries:
http://zeusbatteryproducts.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/5-best-storage-and-charging-tips-for-extending-lifespan-of-lithium-ion-batteries-in-home-business/

UnfairAwesomeness
09-14-2013, 03:19 AM
The lithium ion charging cycle is complex, and the hardware/software to do it safely and efficiently are constantly being reviewed/improved.

I don't think we can assume we can outsmart the process by leaving the battery off the charger - and at what charge level should it be stored? 100%, 70%, 50%, less?

Here are a couple of articles that give a nice view into the complexity considered by the charging hardware designers:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

http://www.edn.com/design/power-management/4405282/Proper-Lithium-Ion-battery-charging-and-safety

And, one on long term storage of Consumer Lion batteries:
http://zeusbatteryproducts.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/5-best-storage-and-charging-tips-for-extending-lifespan-of-lithium-ion-batteries-in-home-business/

Well technically it doesn't matter what % charge it's left at, it's what voltage (~40% for storage, ~80% is about a good point to have somewhat battery charge just incase and still have many more life cycles).

Not the point what exact % to the +/- 0.000001%, just that leaving it at 100% charged like the laptop does horrifically degrades the battery within months all for the sake of maximum electricity storage for that phase in your laptop's life that you are extra careful to not get any scratches or fingerprints on it.

I would love for an option to set it so it won't overcharge the battery (i'm considering 100% charge overcharging cuz it is what it is) without the inconvenience of taking the battery out with the security risk of losing power to the laptop if ac goes out.

Ramer
09-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Thank you guys for the reply. I appreciate all the replies. I usullay use my notebook in gaming and sometimes doing autocad. I'm using the battery every once in a while but most of the time I am removing the bat. I have no problems with accidental bumps from the charger/adapter so its ok for me o take it out. I hope there would be a software or program that will bypass the battery when it is fully charged an plugged in.

UnfairAwesomeness
09-14-2013, 05:43 PM
What laptop company keeps their battery charged at less than 100% long term, and makes that visible through their monitoring software to the end user?

Some examples from other manufacturers:

Samsung Laptop: Battery Life Extender
Lenovo's Power Manager


I would much rather have years longer on the battery life than to have it last longer, especially since I have it plugged in most of the time. What reason would it make sense to keep it charged at 100% for years when it's down to 50% capacity after 6-12 months, and dead within 18months, when it barely has been used for it's portability?

hmscott
09-15-2013, 12:35 AM
Some examples from other manufacturers:
Samsung Laptop: Battery Life Extender
Lenovo's Power Manager
I would much rather have years longer on the battery life than to have it last longer, especially since I have it plugged in most of the time. What reason would it make sense to keep it charged at 100% for years when it's down to 50% capacity after 6-12 months, and dead within 18months, when it barely has been used for it's portability?

Nice, I hadn't seen that. You might send in a request to Asus for that feature in their laptops and see how they respond.

For those following along, here are some links I found that help describe what we are discussing:
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/faq/FAQ00052165/58964
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?DocID=HT078208

I see it is an option in the BIOS to toggle/set "Battery Life Extension"/Threshold.

It would be nice if it could be overridden from the OS, so you could run it at 40-80% most of the time, and then when you need 100% for an expected longer duration use you could top it off at 100% on demand rather than requiring a reboot.

Ah, it looks like Lenovo does let you change it from the OS:
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/detail.page?DocID=HT078209

It looks like the technology is still progressing forward, and Asus needs to do some catching up. Definitely send in a request for the feature.

I haven't run across a significant reduction in battery capacity in the laptops I have used, but then I don't keep them long enough - upgrading every 12-18 months - and I usually have 2-3 batteries I cycle through weekly so perhaps I am already effectively extending battery life by doing that.

I would probably use the feature if it existed for laptops that stay plugged in most of the time.

UnfairAwesomeness
09-15-2013, 05:12 AM
Nice, I hadn't seen that. You might send in a request to Asus for that feature in their laptops and see how they respond.

For those following along, here are some links I found that help describe what we are discussing:
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/faq/FAQ00052165/58964
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?DocID=HT078208

I see it is an option in the BIOS to toggle/set "Battery Life Extension"/Threshold.

It would be nice if it could be overridden from the OS, so you could run it at 40-80% most of the time, and then when you need 100% for an expected longer duration use you could top it off at 100% on demand rather than requiring a reboot.

Ah, it looks like Lenovo does let you change it from the OS:
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/detail.page?DocID=HT078209

It looks like the technology is still progressing forward, and Asus needs to do some catching up. Definitely send in a request for the feature.

I haven't run across a significant reduction in battery capacity in the laptops I have used, but then I don't keep them long enough - upgrading every 12-18 months - and I usually have 2-3 batteries I cycle through weekly so perhaps I am already effectively extending battery life by doing that.

I would probably use the feature if it existed for laptops that stay plugged in most of the time.

Yay, thanks for being one of the few who actually read what I posted =)

Why do you cycle through 2-3 batteries? Do you get them for really cheap or something? Cycling through batteries doesn't really extend their lives of the individual batteries, it does let you have higher capacity in the beginning part of your laptop's lifetime though (let's say batteries lose 10% capacity every 3 months, instead of first 3 months of 90%+ capacity, you have 6 months of 90%+ capacity for 2 batteries, considering equivalent use of each battery). If you wanted highest total individual battery lifetime, you would use the first battery for the first half of the lifetime of your laptop (or 1/3 if 3 batteries), then 2nd battery for 2nd half (or 2nd third), because batteries do degrade over time if you use them or not (assuming the second battery was made after the first and hasn't been in storage since then).

I wouldn't know how to suggest it to Asus, let alone them actually listen. It really shouldn't be too complicated of a bios update (if it is physically possible).

At least a shutoff switch would be nice (either manual or software). Manual would be put between the contacts between the laptop and battery, with an outside switch, yes it will have to be very thin).

hmscott
09-15-2013, 05:40 AM
Yay, thanks for being one of the few who actually read what I posted =)

Why do you cycle through 2-3 batteries? Do you get them for really cheap or something? ...

I wouldn't know how to suggest it to Asus, let alone them actually listen. It really shouldn't be too complicated of a bios update (if it is physically possible).

At least a shutoff switch would be nice (either manual or software). Manual would be put between the contacts between the laptop and battery, with an outside switch, yes it will have to be very thin).

When I traveled more often, 1 or 2 batteries would get used up before I could get to an outlet to recharge, so the 3rd battery saved me a few times. When I am not traveling I run the batteries through to keep them charged and in use, spreading the recharge cycles between them instead of using up 1 I have 3 a little used.

These days I don't travel as much, so I don't really need more than 1, and I haven't bought another for my G750's yet, so managing the 1 I have better is a good idea. I will likely get another battery and charger just in case as backup's.

I think the software to support longer battery health needs BIOS and application changes, and I am hoping Asus is already working on it. A simple on / off charge/nocharge option might be a nice quick fix though.

When you register your laptop you can submit Technical Inquiries so you could make the suggestion through that route - I would make sure to write it up as if you are explaining it completely including links and descriptions of what other manufacturers are doing, and asking Asus to support it in their laptops. You might have to do it a few times, or persist and ask your suggestions to be forwarded on to Asus engineers. Be patient and helpful, and you might be surprised at how receptive and helpful Asus support staff can be.

There might be another route into making requests/suggestions for features / improvements, you might add a question to your input asking if this is the right route to make the suggestion and if not where / how should you make the suggestion.

I see Asus did something like this for some of their laptops before, so they are likely working on something for all laptops in the future, but it doesn't hurt to let them know we know about the features extending battery viability long term :)

It is / was called SuperBatt Technology:
http://support.asus.com/repair.aspx?no=604

SuperBatt Technology

The exclusive SuperBatt technology uses the ASUS Smart Charging Algorithm to extend notebook battery potency. While standard batteries deteriorate with time and recharge to lower levels the more cycles they endure, SuperBatt enables up to 70% charge-up even after 1000 cycles – three times more than normal-cell batteries.
* ASUS SuperBatt on K45, K55, K75, and K95 only.

cronik916
09-15-2013, 08:48 PM
interesting post ive wondered the same about battery longevity but if what battery university suggests is true in real world use then i would just keep mine plugged in and buy another li-ion battery in 3 months. for me personally i use my laptop at my shop daily and although i have it on my desk there the room is constantly bombarded by different plastic dust or wood dust from my 3 axis cnc machine and if u guys look at the inside of the battery housing u can see a sizeable gap into the inner case where dust would have a chance of getting in. although it just goes right through the keys lol. anyway we all have different uses and enviorments for the 750, but i agree a program to adjust the threshold for charging would indeed by nice. IM alway for MORE nobs and dials to turn on my equipment lol. cheers

UnfairAwesomeness
09-15-2013, 10:51 PM
Yea having to ever replace your battery if it rarely drops below 95% charged is just silly. That's why an option to keep the battery charged at 50% or 80% or whatever is absolutely NEEDED. Lol what sense is it that not using the battery creates more wear than actually using it?


Yes, yes, i know that's the way the technology is, but there is no excuse especially since there is/are solution(s) to it besides undoing battery leaving dust and whatever wants to just crawl in.