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hmscott
09-22-2013, 10:39 AM
** Update: It looks like I am the only one seeing input lag on Bios 208 under CPU load, so please do try it for yourself, using the Balanced Power Plan on 208 gives me the best result now, and I am staying on 208.

JX BIOS options. Earlier there was only version 207. Asus added two versions of the battery throttling fix BIOS version 203 as well as the newest 208.
English/US link: http://support.asus.com/Download.asp...50JX&p=3&s=521

Version 208
Description BIOS 208 (G750JX)
Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode.
File Size 2,25 (MBytes) 2013.09.22 update

Version 203
Description BIOS 203 (G750JXA)
Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode.
File Size 2,23 (MBytes) 2013.09.22 update

Version 207
Description BIOS 207
1.Update EC firmware
2.Support new power 4 gear
File Size 2,25 (MBytes) 2013.06.05 update

On my JX I am running version 207, so I assume I will update to 208 with the battery throttling fix.

** Update: It looks like I am the only one seeing input lag on Bios 208 under CPU load, so please do try it for yourself, using the Balanced Power Plan on 208 gives me the best result now, and I am staying on 208.

Why did Asus provide version 203 with the battery throttling fix as well? I did notice that the version 208 is for G750JX and version 203 is for G750JXA... what does the JXA indicate?


JH BIOS options. Again, not sure why 2 versions of the battery throttling fix BIOS, 205 and 203. Version 204 was the only BIOS listed earlier.
English/US link: http://support.asus.com/Download.asp...50JH&p=3&s=521

Version 205
Description BIOS 205 (G750JH)
Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode.
File Size 2,21 (MBytes) 2013.09.22 update

Version 203
Description BIOS 203 (G750JHA)
Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode.
File Size 2,23 (MBytes) 2013.09.22 update

Version 204
Description BIOS 204
Fix that Keyboard light will fade out after a while in AC mode
File Size 2,21 (MBytes) 2013.08.08 update


** Update: It looks like I am the only one seeing input lag on Bios 208 under CPU load, so please do try it for yourself, using the Balanced Power Plan on 208 gives me the best result now, and I am staying on 208.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 12:05 PM
BIOS 208 gave me responsiveness problems after update, under battery *and* under AC power, so I reverted to BIOS 207.

The default behavior of Winflash is to not allow installing older dated bios on top of newer bios. To override you can start via command shell and add /nodate to the command line start up of Winflash, or you can add /nodate to the "Target" properties of the shortcut.

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Note that this version of Winflash doesn't actually do the BIOS flash from Windows, Winflash only schedules the BIOS Flash to be done at the next reboot. Upon picking the BIOS, clicking "Flash" and then clicking "Exit", Winflash reboots Windows and the BIOS Flash is done after the reboot.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 12:33 PM
** Update: It looks like I am the only one seeing input lag on Bios 208 under CPU load, so please do try it for yourself, using the Balanced Power Plan gives me the best result now.



Here is what I found when testing the new 208 BIOS for G750JX

Scheduled BIOS Flash via WinFlash, rebooted - flashed new bios - booted into Windows - logged in - SHIFT-CTL-ALT rebooted to check UEFI changes - didn't notice anything new except version number, booted into Windows.

Set CPU/GPU to default/stock settings (Intel XTU / Asus GPU Tweak) - so was running at 3.2GHZ CPU 797mhz/4008mhz GPU.

1) With AC plugged in, started PRIME95 with 8 threads, task manager showed 2.98ghz 100% CPU

2) unplugged AC cable power from laptop, power plan automatically switched from Power4Gear High Performance to Power4Gear Power Saving, task manager showed 1.49Ghz at 100%, everything seemed ok.

3) Had jerky mouse, didn't think anything of it as PRIME95 can do that, although I hadn't seen it before on the G750JX, but when I selected power plan Power4Gear High Performance while under battery mode CPU went to 2.8ghz, then the mouse froze.

4) Had a tough time getting mouse control long enough to make any change, so I plugged in the AC cable, and after a couple of *minutes" I was able to click through and end the PRIME95. Mouse control still was jerky for while.

5) With PRIME95 ended, while waiting for mouse control to come back, I noted the CPU speed drop down below 1GHZ, usually it doesn't drop below about 1.2ghz while idle.

Then I tried a series of tests trying to see if responsiveness could be found with Power4Gear Battery Saving mode while running 4 threads of PRIME95 - no such luck.

After a couple of more tests, with reboots in between to see if that would help, I thought I should go back to 207 and try the same tests and see what happens.

While I have been writing this I am back on BIOS 207, on AC , on Power4Gear High Performance, running 8 threads of PRIME95 + Intel XTU 3.6ghz + Asus GPU Tweak 932mhz/5000mhz, and no lag, freezing, or other non-responsive symptoms.

I unplugged the AC from the laptop, screen dimmed as it switched to Power4Gear Battery Saving, still running the 8 threads and still at OC settings, with no lag / unresponsiveness - but of course the CPU speed dropped to .79ghz, and GPU dropped to 135mhz/810mhz.

Before this I had set up ThrottleStop 6.0 BETA to run on battery at reasonable speeds above .79ghz, in case I need to run on battery, which isn't often.

I don't have ThrottleStop set to run at boot time and to automatically set values at every boot - so it wasn't part of this test. But, I thought I should mention that I didn't see any mouse freezing or unresponsive behavior while using ThrottleStop at any value I set.

I am not recommending ThrottleStop, and I am not sure it is safe to override settings with ThrottleStop in short term or long term use.

Given the CPU speed difference between Power4Gear Battery Saving / High Performance (1.49ghz vs 2.8ghz peaks) it looks like Asus is doing some fun on the fly tuning that might be causing problems under CPU load extremes in BIOS 208... I might wait till 209 shows up with some tuning changes before I try again.

Please post your experiences / what you see after going to BIOS 208 (you can always revert to BIOS 207).

And, JH guys, what are you seeing?



** Update: It looks like I am the only one seeing input lag on Bios 208 under CPU load, so please do try it for yourself, using the Balanced Power Plan gives me the best result now.

Symho
09-22-2013, 01:40 PM
I had upgrade my G750Jx's bios to version 208... now my note is it blocked! When I press power button I see black screen and after 5 seconds the note automatically power off! :mad:

Thanks ASUS!

hmscott
09-22-2013, 01:52 PM
Now that I know I can get back to BIOS 207, with everything ok, I decided to go back to BIOS 208 to do some more testing.

While running on Battery, the responsiveness problem comes up when leaving the auto-selected Power4Gear Battery Saving Mode and selecting Power4Gear High Performance, which kicks up the CPU speed.

I was able to get screen shots under both Power4Gear modes while on battery, but when saving the screen shot while running the Power4Gear High Performance mode the keyboard became unresponsive and lost chars as I was typing in the name to save. I clicked Save, and shutdown the Prime95, and then rebooted.

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While I was back on BIOS 207 I ran ThrottleStop, and took a screen shot while on Power4Gear High Performance, with Intel XTU set for OC to 3.6ghz and Asus GPU Tweak at 932/5000, and there were no responsiveness problems for the 20 minutes I ran under battery - estimated battery time went from just over an hour to 40 minutes.

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I think for now I am going to continue to run under 208 to see if I notice any other oddities. I mostly run AC powered only.

villiansv
09-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Just my 2c - after updating to 208 on my JX, I have absolutely no issues at all. No need to throttlestop any more on battery, otherwise it is working same as always. I don't use power4gear though, just the builtin windows power centre with some customized schemes. All in all, the last minor annoyance I had with the laptop is now gone.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 02:01 PM
Just my 2c - after updating to 208 on my JX, I have absolutely no issues at all. No need to throttlestop any more on battery, otherwise it is working same as always. I don't use power4gear though, just the builtin windows power centre with some customized schemes. All in all, the last minor annoyance I had with the laptop is now gone.

villiansv, did you do any heavy CPU / Graphics intensive testing? Did you try to play any heavy duty games, run benchmarks, or otherwise load the laptop up while on battery - or are you doing light usage / browsing and looking at the CPU speed - what is your usage test while on battery?

The Power4Gear power plans are installed by Asus and automatically go to them in the 208 bios, so did you uninstall the Power4Gear Hybrid package? Even if you have your own plans set up, it will switch to the Power4Gear plan(s) if available.

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Symho
09-22-2013, 02:13 PM
It's funny! I had press repeatedly the F keys and now PC gone! Now I'll try restart... What happening?

villiansv
09-22-2013, 02:17 PM
Edit: this is in reply to hmscott's query, forgot to quote him.

I ran intelburntest both on AC and Battery for about 5 mins each. On AC the cpu constantly clocked at 3.2ghz. On battery it spent most of the time @3.2ghz, with occasional drops to 2.4ghz for about 10-15 secs. While doing this, I did some random browsing and didn't notice any slowdown/stuttering at all. I haven't bothered with GPU testing, as the battery could never power both CPU and GPU at high loads. Plus the only thing I do while on battery is watch netflix or browse, both of which I are now butter smooth without having to use throttlestop.

I never actually installed Power4Gear, as I performed a clean install of Win 8 when I swapped in my SSD drive. I don't see the need for it, as the built-in windows power schemes do the work just fine for my needs. All the above testing was done using the Balanced scheme, the relevant setting for CPU speed was min state - 5%, max state 100%, for both battery and AC power.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 02:19 PM
Edit: this is in reply to hmscott's query, forgot to quote him.

I ran intelburntest both on AC and Battery for about 5 mins each. On AC the cpu constantly clocked at 3.2ghz. On battery it spent most of the time @3.2ghz, with occasional drops to 2.4ghz for about 10-15 secs. While doing this, I did some random browsing and didn't notice any slowdown/stuttering at all. I haven't bothered with GPU testing, as the battery could never power both CPU and GPU at high loads. Plus the only thing I do while on battery is watch netflix or browse, both of which I are now butter smooth without having to use throttlestop.

I never actually installed Power4Gear, as I performed a clean install of Win 8 when I swapped in my SSD drive. I don't see the need for it, as the built-in windows power schemes do the work just fine for my needs. All the above testing was done using the Balanced scheme, the relevant setting for CPU speed was min state - 5%, max state 100%, for both battery and AC power.

Excellent!, I will try to run without the Power4Gear Hybrid installed. Thanks villiansv!

Symho
09-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Excuse me It is normal that after upgrade the bios the CPU when plug in AC increase clock? Until 3.2 GHz?

hmscott
09-22-2013, 02:43 PM
Edit: this is in reply to hmscott's query, forgot to quote him.

I ran intelburntest both on AC and Battery for about 5 mins each. On AC the cpu constantly clocked at 3.2ghz. On battery it spent most of the time @3.2ghz, with occasional drops to 2.4ghz for about 10-15 secs. While doing this, I did some random browsing and didn't notice any slowdown/stuttering at all. I haven't bothered with GPU testing, as the battery could never power both CPU and GPU at high loads. Plus the only thing I do while on battery is watch netflix or browse, both of which I are now butter smooth without having to use throttlestop.

I never actually installed Power4Gear, as I performed a clean install of Win 8 when I swapped in my SSD drive. I don't see the need for it, as the built-in windows power schemes do the work just fine for my needs. All the above testing was done using the Balanced scheme, the relevant setting for CPU speed was min state - 5%, max state 100%, for both battery and AC power.


Excellent!, I will try to run without the Power4Gear Hybrid installed. Thanks villiansv!

villiansv, it looks like Intel Burn Test isn't intensive enough :)

Now that I think about it, if you were seeing 3.2ghz, Intel Burn test was only loading 1 or 2 cores/threads. The more cores/threads loaded, the more the CPU down clocks.

I uninstalled the Asus Power4Gear Hybrid, and rebooted, and selected the Balanced Power Plan.

Ran the same tests again - and I experienced the same eventual degradation of responsiveness - it took about 1 minute running on battery with Prime95 running 8 threads of "In place large FFT's (maximum heat, power consumption, some RAM tested)" before becoming unresponsive.

Prime95 is the stress test I default to when testing stability. Here is the download, if you want to give it a try:
http://www.mersenneforum.org/gimps/?C=M;O=D

It took patience and time to get glimpses of control of the mouse pointer to get to the Prime95 window Alt-F X to exit it. Plugging in power didn't help. After exiting Prime95 and seeing CPU usage drop to 0% I still didn't have consistent mouse control. Waited some more, but eventually gave up and rebooted.

I did get screen shots of both before battery on AC, and after unplugging and running on battery.

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While under BIOS 207 running ThrottleStop, I ran the same test / config without any negative effect on responsiveness.

patros
09-22-2013, 03:20 PM
Just a heads up guys.

I downloaded and flashed 208 via WinFlash (Run as Administrator - IMPORTANT).

I then went through the process of rebooting etc., and when I got back into Windows, I ran AIDA64 and ran the System Stability test only stressing the CPU. While on AC power it runs at 3.193 GHz and when on DC power it drops to 1.497 Ghz. There was no trouble with regard to responsiveness from my end. I am now preloading Fifa 14 and will be testing the same on BF4 once released. Meanwhile, Metro Last Light and a few other games I play seem to be running fine. If I got any issues crop up, I will update you guys accordingly.

Cheers and best of luck!

DeltaActual
09-22-2013, 03:20 PM
It's funny! I had press repeatedly the F keys and now PC gone! Now I'll try restart... What happening?

So is your system working or did you brick it?

Pierre990429
09-22-2013, 03:29 PM
Hello, G750JH user here.

I upgraded to bios 205 (from 204), using the "easy flash"feature in the BIOS (you have to select the option within Windows - "advanced restart or something like that - to get there on the following boot).

The CPU isn't stuck at 800MHz for sure (CPU-Z shows spikes at ~ 2Ghz, sometimes more), but any "heavy game" will still stutter, compared to AC mode.
For example, Skyrim + HD-textures won't be as slow than before (with bios 204), but won't be as smooth as if you ran it with AC plugged-in, either.

The computer won't just behave the same when it's on battery. Maybe it's too "dangerous" for the battery ?
I uninstalled power4gear and used the normal "max performance" mode. Same in the Nvidia 3D options.

I didn't notice any mouse-lag when working on the desktop. And in-game, the stutter totally disappeared as soon as I switched the AC power back on.

Ah, and please notice that the "easy flash" process in the BIOS doesn't allow to revert to an older BIOS (there's a message saying that the "date is too old" or something like that).

hmscott
09-22-2013, 03:38 PM
...any "heavy game" will still stutter, compared to AC mode.

There doesn't seem to be a way to override the GPU speed on battery, it drops to 135mhz under load no matter what Asus GPU tweak setting is used.

So, even with the CPU running at higher speeds on battery, gaming isn't going to be the same. I am going to try downgrading the in game graphics settings.

Now this is a bit strange. While running Furmark a few times I noticed the GPU clock jumping around, bottoming out and staying at 135mhz most of the time, but jumping up to 200-700mhz too.

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hmscott
09-22-2013, 03:58 PM
...I then went through the process of rebooting etc., and when I got back into Windows, I ran AIDA64 and ran the System Stability test only stressing the CPU.

patros, while I was typing this in I am running Aida64 System Stability Test at 100% 8 threads, and only getting occasional lag/catchup on typing, but for the most part responsive. Mousing is responsive too, no lag / sticky mouse.

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Update: As soon as I checked the Stress GPU(s) box on Aida64, it became unresponsive / laggy, the mouse was unresponsive and took patience to scroll around, but I got a screen shot:

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Symho
09-22-2013, 04:10 PM
So is your system working or did you brick it?

My G750 resume as a phoenix! :D

My CPU running at ~3.2 GHz stably when in DC, when in battery I have 1.4 GHz! This value too you?

hmscott
09-22-2013, 04:29 PM
Ok, so I decided to see what running ThrottleStop 6.0 beta under BIOS 208 would do, and it got rid of the lag/responsiveness problems while simultaneously running Prime95 8 threads + Aida System Stability Test + I ran Furmark through one pass at 1080p, and still no lag!

What is ThrottleStop 6.0 beta doing that is fixing the lag issue with BIOS 208?

Both Prime95 and Aida are still running as I am typing this in and there is no hint of lag for typing / mousing. :)


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I am down to 26 minutes / 40% battery, so I am plugging in the AC.

unclewebb
09-22-2013, 04:42 PM
The jerky mouse action might be because Asus is using clock modulation throttling. Your screen shot above shows that you have ThrottleStop set up to correct this problem.

If you want to do some more testing, un-check Set Multiplier and the two types of Clock Modulation, check the BD PROCHOT option, click on the Turn Off button in ThrottleStop, save your settings and reboot your computer.

After you reboot, start up ThrottleStop so it is in Monitoring mode only and then go do some stress testing and when things get jerky, have a look at ThrottleStop to see if either type of Clock Modulation being reported is less than 100%. Clock modulation throttling can slow a CPU down internally to a crawl so it is running at less than 10% of its rated speed. When stress testing like this, the mouse will jump around and your computer will feel like you are watching a slide show.

Whatever is happening, it's great to see that ThrottleStop is helping your CPU to run as Intel intended it to run.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 05:25 PM
The jerky mouse action might be because Asus is using clock modulation throttling. Your screen shot above shows that you have ThrottleStop set up to correct this problem.

If you want to do some more testing, un-check Set Multiplier and the two types of Clock Modulation, check the BD PROCHOT option, click on the Turn Off button in ThrottleStop, save your settings and reboot your computer.

After you reboot, start up ThrottleStop so it is in Monitoring mode only and then go do some stress testing and when things get jerky, have a look at ThrottleStop to see if either type of Clock Modulation being reported is less than 100%. Clock modulation throttling can slow a CPU down internally to a crawl so it is running at less than 10% of its rated speed. When stress testing like this, the mouse will jump around and your computer will feel like you are watching a slide show.

Whatever is happening, it's great to see that ThrottleStop is helping your CPU to run as Intel intended it to run.

unclewebb, thank you for taking the time to respond. :)

I am going to work on this later, and will try the settings changes, and post the results, unless someone else gets a chance to test it before I do.

Now that you explained it - it makes sense that Clock Modulation would be the element involved in the lag.

I thought the BD PROCHOT option was the one to disable in BIOS 207 and before, as that was how Asus was limiting the performance. Are you suggesting that in BIOS 208 Asus isn't asserting BD PROCHOT so we don't need to override it?

Thanks again unclewebb!

unclewebb
09-22-2013, 05:57 PM
When BD PROCHOT is being used, that forces the CPU to 800 MHz. If this is not happening anymore then BD PROCHOT is probably not being used anymore. It's also possible that Asus is using a combination of throttling methods.

If clock modulation is being used, that can be worse because it is slowing the CPU down internally. First of all, a lot of monitoring software does not correctly report this so users might not be sure what is going on with different monitoring programs reporting this differetly. The next problem is that clock modulation throttling can slow the CPU down more severely than BD PROCHOT so the CPU is performing at far less than 800 MHz even if some monitoring software doesn't realize this. Some further testing of this will be interesting.

Pitcher
09-22-2013, 06:58 PM
hmscott is the only person facing this mouse jerkiness problem.

I upgraded to the 208 BIOS as soon as it was out and there is no mouse jerkiness AT ALL. I am using a Logitech Anywhere MX Wireless mouse.

Bear in mind that I use Windows 8.1 with update drivers such as:

Intel Chipset Drivers 9.4.0.1026
Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver 12.8.0.1016
Intel Management Engine Interface 9.5.10.1550
nVIDIA GeForce Drivers 327.23
Realtek Audio Driver 6.0.1.6976
Atheros AR9485 WLAN Driver 10.0.0.261
Atheros AR8171 LAN Driver 2.1.0.21
Atheros Bluetooth Driver 8.0.0.230
Power4Gear Hybrid Utility 3.0.5

On AC Power the CPU Speed is: 3.27 GHz. to 3.4 GHz depending on the CPU load
On Batteru Power the CPU Speed is: Drop to 0.77 GHz. automatically because the Power4Gear Hybrid automatically switches the plan to Power Saving, but when I manually change the plan to Performance by pressing FN + Spacebar, the CPU speed jumps up to the same 3.27 GHz. to 3.4 GHz

zalbard
09-22-2013, 07:39 PM
Why did Asus provide version 203 with the battery throttling fix as well? I did notice that the version 208 is for G750JX and version 203 is for G750JXA... what does the JXA indicate?
I have found mentions of G750JXA and G750JHA on the Web. New models, possibly?

hmscott
09-22-2013, 08:23 PM
I have found mentions of G750JXA and G750JHA on the Web. New models, possibly?

zalbard, I looked and couldn't find any links, would you please share them?

Pitcher
09-22-2013, 08:25 PM
I have found mentions of G750JXA and G750JHA on the Web. New models, possibly?

just diff file names I noticed between the 208 and 203 BIOS. nothing to worry about

DeltaActual
09-22-2013, 08:36 PM
Notice:Please check in the BIOS setup for the correct BIOS file name of your Notebook .....WTF is that supposed to mean? Also BIOS file is named "G750JXAS208" Is it the one to use for JX, or do i have to rename it? What a mess again...

hmscott
09-22-2013, 08:41 PM
just diff file names I noticed between the 208 and 203 BIOS. nothing to worry about

Asus posted 2 different BIOS updates under G750JX and G750JH, it would be nice to know what the JXA and JHA models are.

I am guessing they are new motherboard revs based on Haswell C2 stepping to correct the USB 3.0 sleeping problem.

The BIOS updates are the first indication I have seen of new base models (not new -option packages) that might be the new Haswell C2 Stepping models.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 09:36 PM
Notice:Please check in the BIOS setup for the correct BIOS file name of your Notebook .....WTF is that supposed to mean? Also BIOS file is named "G750JXAS208" Is it the one to use for JX, or do i have to rename it? What a mess again...

Good point DeltaActual, Asus could have named the packages/directories/files a bit less confusing.

For my G750JX I used the G750JXAS208.zip package, unzipped the directory name is G750JXAS208 and the BIOS file is named G750JXAS.208

I think they mis-named the BIOS file, left out a '-', it should probably be G750JX-AS.208

For the G750JXA Asus did name it correctly, but even so, it is confusing:

Package name G750JXAAS203.zip - unzipped directory name G750JXAAS203 - BIOS file name G750JXA-AS.203

villiansv
09-22-2013, 09:50 PM
villiansv, it looks like Intel Burn Test isn't intensive enough :)
...


I ran prime95 w/ 8 threads, same settings as you described. Ran it on battery for about 5 minutes, plugged AC power for 1 min, unplugged again and stayed on battery for another 5 minutes or so. I never got any stuttering or mouse lag (played minesweeper to make sure I'd notice mouse issues). I guess it's safe to say different machines just act differently.

Pitcher
09-22-2013, 09:53 PM
I ran prime95 w/ 8 threads, same settings as you described. Ran it on battery for about 5 minutes, plugged AC power for 1 min, unplugged again and stayed on battery for another 5 minutes or so. I never got any stuttering or mouse lag (played minesweeper to make sure I'd notice mouse issues). I guess it's safe to say different machines just act differently.

Same here bro

The reason you see the core speed @ 2.11 is normal that's because all 8 cores are working but in normal situations it's
@ 3.2 to 3.4 Ghz. and this test was done on battery power

no mouse jerkiness, i used the computer as well and browsed on Pale Moon it was smooth as usual

http://i39.tinypic.com/2rhbp8n.png

hmscott
09-22-2013, 10:13 PM
I ran prime95 w/ 8 threads, same settings as you described. Ran it on battery for about 5 minutes, plugged AC power for 1 min, unplugged again and stayed on battery for another 5 minutes or so. I never got any stuttering or mouse lag (played minesweeper to make sure I'd notice mouse issues). I guess it's safe to say different machines just act differently.

Thanks for testing villiansv, did you notice what the CPU utilization was and at what speed the CPU was running under Prime95 load?

Strange that it is fixed by running ThrottleStop under BIOS 208 for me. I guess I will do more testing later and see if I can isolate the issue I am seeing.

villiansv
09-22-2013, 11:30 PM
Thanks for testing villiansv, did you notice what the CPU utilization was and at what speed the CPU was running under Prime95 load?

Strange that it is fixed by running ThrottleStop under BIOS 208 for me. I guess I will do more testing later and see if I can isolate the issue I am seeing.

Under battery it was @2.7ghz most of the time, dips to 2.4 and spikes up to 3 but mostly around 2.7.

hmscott
09-22-2013, 11:33 PM
Under battery it was @2.7ghz most of the time, dips to 2.4 and spikes up to 3 but mostly around 2.7.

That's great, that's higher than I am seeing under the Balanced Power Plan (the best performing for me) - I was seeing 2.28ghz and Pitcher was seeing 2.11ghz (according to our screenshots).

What Power Plan are you running to get that speed, and what do you have the min/max processor set to in that plan? Any other tuning/config tips?

Thanks villansv!

Pitcher
09-23-2013, 12:03 AM
That's great, that's higher than I am seeing under the Balanced Power Plan (the best performing for me) - I was seeing 2.28ghz and Pitcher was seeing 2.11ghz (according to our screenshots).

What Power Plan are you running to get that speed, and what do you have the min/max processor set to in that plan? Any other tuning/config tips?

Thanks villansv!

Dude, I said in my post the reason I was @ 2.2 GHz. is because all 8 cores were running Prime95

When all the cores are running they cannot run @ full 3 GHz. speed that's how multi processors work.

When I am idling or just surfing the net on high performance plan / on battery, it is always @ 3+ Ghz. the only reason it dropped to 2.2 GHz. was that all cores were running

hmscott
09-23-2013, 12:18 AM
Dude, I said in my post the reason I was @ 2.2 GHz. is because all 8 cores were running Prime95...

Pitcher, yes we know how it works, and villansv was seeing a higher stable clock running Prime95 on all 8 cores, which is why I am asking him what power plan he was running, and what other tuning he might have done to get higher speeds than I am seeing.

unclewebb
09-23-2013, 02:43 AM
When all the cores are running they cannot run @ full 3 GHz. speed that's how multi processors work.

Based on the previous post by hmscott, you can see that when all 8 threads are fully loaded, a 4700 HQ is quite capable of running at close to 3.2 GHz. As long as the CPU is operating within the TDP limit, it should be able to use full Turbo boost and in his picture, it's very close to that.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?37647-New-208-JX-and-205-JH-BIOS-on-support.asus.com&p=313338&viewfull=1#post313338


The reason you see the core speed @ 2.11 is normal....

If you are happy with that speed that's fine but it's definitely not normal. The CPU is being throttled to far less than its Intel rated speed.

Pitcher
09-23-2013, 08:19 AM
Based on the previous post by hmscott, you can see that when all 8 threads are fully loaded, a 4700 HQ is quite capable of running at close to 3.2 GHz. As long as the CPU is operating within the TDP limit, it should be able to use full Turbo boost and in his picture, it's very close to that.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?37647-New-208-JX-and-205-JH-BIOS-on-support.asus.com&p=313338&viewfull=1#post313338



If you are happy with that speed that's fine but it's definitely not normal. The CPU is being throttled to far less than its Intel rated speed.

ahhh thanks for the info pro, you are the best person to ask about these things, I will run another test on all cores and see what speed I get

Vinith Pillai
09-23-2013, 11:58 AM
How do we access the BIOS after installing 208? I tried the ESC button on bootup, but it doesnt go into the BIOS.

Any help on this?

hmscott
09-23-2013, 12:39 PM
How do we access the BIOS after installing 208? I tried the ESC button on bootup, but it doesnt go into the BIOS.
Any help on this?

Check out the downloadable manual for all the cool function key features. The BOOT Post function key is F2, press it during Power On Self Test, page 74 of the JW/JX manual. It is tough to time it right, and you might miss the timing easily.

Manual download:http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=G750JX&p=3&s=521
select Manual=>Your Language

The other method is while in Windows, bring up the Charms bar, click on Settings, then hold down all three keys at once SHIFT+CTRL+ALT and click Power/Reboot, when you get into the options menu (before rebooting), Select Troubleshooting => Advanced Options => UEFI Firmware Settings => Restart - then at reboot you will be put into the UEFI BIOS pages.

hmscott
09-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Based on the previous post by hmscott, you can see that when all 8 threads are fully loaded, a 4700 HQ is quite capable of running at close to 3.2 GHz. As long as the CPU is operating within the TDP limit, it should be able to use full Turbo boost and in his picture, it's very close to that.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?37647-New-208-JX-and-205-JH-BIOS-on-support.asus.com&p=313338&viewfull=1#post313338

If you are happy with that speed that's fine but it's definitely not normal. The CPU is being throttled to far less than its Intel rated speed.

Thanks uncleweb, at 100% utilization on battery using the Balanced Power Plan I am not getting stable CPU speed - it is varying from about 2.52ghz to 2.83ghz - while on AC I get a stable/steady 3.17ghz - and using ThrottleStop 6.0b1 on battery I also get a steady 3.17ghz

I think the 208 BIOS is a great improvement over 207, but I think there is a lot of performance still left available to us that we aren't seeing, and whatever power/speed algorithm is being used it isn't tracking a steady CPU speed under steady 100% usage.

UltimateKyo
09-23-2013, 01:17 PM
Hey Guys, I had upgraded my G750JX to bios 208 and had my power4gear hybird configured the min processor speed on battery 100%, but my clock speed is still 0.77Ghz. Can anyone advise me if I had done any wrong step here? I had use the winflash utilities to confirm my bios version again but it does show G750JX 208.

hmscott
09-23-2013, 01:55 PM
Hey Guys, I had upgraded my G750JX to bios 208 and had my power4gear hybird configured the min processor speed on battery 100%, but my clock speed is still 0.77Ghz. Can anyone advise me if I had done any wrong step here? I had use the winflash utilities to confirm my bios version again but it does show G750JX 208.

UltimateKyo, at one point during my testing 208 I uninstalled Asus Power4Gear Hybrid package v3.05, and when I later reinstalled Power4Gear Hybrid v3.05 I saw the same problem - stuck at .77ghz. - weird, right?

After I switched to using Balanced Power Plan for a while, through a number of tests and reboots, I went back to trying Power4Gear Power Saving and Power4Gear High Performance, and I get better performance, but less than I was getting when I first updated to 208 and had the original install of Power4Gear Hybrid v3.05.

Here are the average CPU speeds I am seeing at 100% utilization simultaneous running Prime95+Aida64 Stability Test while on battery (first one is reference on AC):

AC Power Plugged in, Balanced Power Plan, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 3.17ghz Steady, System Idle: 0.77ghz

Power4Gear Power Saving, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 1.46ghz Steady, System Idle: 0.77ghz

Power4Gear High Performance, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 2.45-2.64ghz Varies, System Idle: 1.18ghz

Balanced, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 2.55-2.81ghz Varies, System Idle: 0.77ghz

High Performance, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 2.40-2.52ghz Varies, System Idle: 1.51ghz

Power Saver, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 2.67-2.79ghz Varies, System Idle: 0.77ghz

Samsung High Performance, 100% Steady CPU Usage: 2.38-2.45ghz Varies, System Idle: 1.58ghz

You could try switching to another Power Plan live, and see if you see any speed changes, I watch Task Manager CPU Performance while switching.

Also, it takes more than opening a new tab in a browser to kick some of the plans up over .77ghz, when I saw it stuck at .77 I tried running lots of stuff and it didn't budge - even at 100% usage - I don't know what cured that but it went away after a few tests while on other power plans - and reboots.

You might try rebooting on one of the other plans, and then switching to one of the Asus Power4Gear plans after booting.

villiansv
09-23-2013, 02:14 PM
That's great, that's higher than I am seeing under the Balanced Power Plan (the best performing for me) - I was seeing 2.28ghz and Pitcher was seeing 2.11ghz (according to our screenshots).

What Power Plan are you running to get that speed, and what do you have the min/max processor set to in that plan? Any other tuning/config tips?

Thanks villansv!

Not really doing anything special. Min cpu state 5%, max cpu state 100% on both AC and battery - I believe this is the default for the Balanced plan. I've mostly customized screen/standby timeouts and brightness.

Lastly, if you're doing short-term stress tests, intelburntest is far more demanding. The general idea when stress-testing to reach a stable overclocking state is to run the intel burn test for ~20 cycles, and if it doesn't spit out any errors, to run prime95 for a few hours. A very demanding game can stress the cpu to close to or the same levels as prime95. Intel burn test uses linpack, which was always designed to stresstest supercomputers and no real-world application will get to the same level of stress (while Prime95 will). You can probably confirm this by checking your CPU temps while running both programs - intel burn test will result in higher temps (~7 degree difference for me).

Probably not that relevant for this thread though, as the point is not to overclock but to say whether the 208 bios does what it's supposed to. It seems the consensus is that it does.

hmscott
09-23-2013, 02:58 PM
...as the point is ... to say whether the 208 bios does what it's supposed to.

And, that is a good question, what is the purpose of the 208 BIOS? And, has it met it's purpose?

Here is the note accompanying the BIOS download listing:
BIOS 208 (G750JX)
"Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode."

And, yes the new BIOS does release the CPU speed from being locked at .79ghz. But, it looks to me like the GPU is still mostly locked to 135mhz. So, a partial success to the stated purpose.

But, that isn't what I was looking for in the new BIOS. I expected a high performance result, along with lower performance battery saving options, like I have experienced in previous Asus laptops, implemented with the Asus Power4Gear Power Saving and High Performance power plans.

We can see the performance available by removing the limits with ThrottleStop, we get full AC level performance, with of course shorter battery life, but it is there if we want it. We shouldn't be limited by throttling in the BIOS, that was what I thought the purpose/result of the new BIOS was going to be.

I was looking for full performance in battery mode as we see in AC mode, at least for CPU. Not a strangely under-clocked / tuned result. Taking the CPU off of locked down .79ghz is great, and I think that the BIOS has done that, but I don't think we are getting the full performance we could be getting, what I expected to be getting.

UltimateKyo
09-23-2013, 03:02 PM
Thanks hmscott again, I am so glad to see my CPU going to 3.4Ghz on DC. But when I tried running Final Fantasy 14 on DC mode, the entire graphic was totally jerky, I had readjust the graphic setting to standard which usually on AC will run at 100+ fps but now at 40fps but every 1-2sec will jump to 10+fps and back to 40fps. Anyone have an solution for this?

villiansv
09-23-2013, 03:26 PM
And, that is a good question, what is the purpose of the 208 BIOS? And, has it met it's purpose?

Here is the note accompanying the BIOS download listing:
BIOS 208 (G750JX)
"Fix that CPU and GPU will be throttled immediately when change to DC mode."

And, yes the new BIOS does release the CPU speed from being locked at .79ghz. But, it looks to me like the GPU is still mostly locked to 135mhz. So, a partial success to the stated purpose.
...


When thinking about this, we can't just look at the separate components all by themselves. The battery can only do so much.
The CPU's TDP is 47W, GTX770M's TDP is 75W. There is also the screen, hard drives (2), optical drive, USB devices, speakers, wireless, soundcard, fans etc which must be all operational at all times on battery. A battery like G750JX's (88WHrs, 5900mAhs) can never operate all these, and since the CPU and GPU are most easy to throttle and provide the option for largest savings, they are the ones that get the short end of the power stick, so to speak. No battery of reasonable size can provide this - there is no gaming laptop in the world that can run all this at full power on battery (unless you have a battery the size of the laptop itself).

A second very important consideration is the battery safety. While theoretically the battery could have the juice to power up the components stored up, it can not support a very fast power draw. I am not an electrical engineer, but know enough to guess that if you try to draw too much power from a source, bad things happen.

So I suspect that originally they were playing it safe by throttling both CPU and GPU to reduce stress on the battery. I was never very comfortable using Throttlestop for this reason, so I never tried to stress the laptop while on battery. Having released this BIOS means (hopefully) that rigorous testing has been done to ensure power draw is within safe limits, but if you still find it working a bit slower than on AC power, remember the power brick's output is more than twice that of the battery. Battery tech (or power-efficient components) have a long way to go.

TL: DR let's be glad we don't have to use throttlestop to browse, at least. If you play games, plug it in :)

UltimateKyo
09-23-2013, 03:45 PM
Is there any way we can do a balance between CPU and GPU on DC so that I could use it for a bare minimum of playing Dota 2?

villiansv
09-23-2013, 03:57 PM
Is there any way we can do a balance between CPU and GPU on DC so that I could use it for a bare minimum of playing Dota 2?

Doubt it. The GPU is more power-hungry than the CPU by far, and the battery won't be able to handle it. It is likely locked in the vbios of the card itself that it clocks down on battery. You could in theory mod the vbios - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=148273.0 if you're not afraid of setting fire to your laptop/battery/lap etc ;). I strongly discourage it (even if you find full support to change the voltage/clocks for all powerstates of the vcard).

hmscott
09-23-2013, 04:02 PM
...The battery can only do so much.... let's be glad we don't have to use throttlestop to browse, at least. If you play games, plug it in :)

Well, if the goal is to figure out a way to allow performance to live under the battery limit we have, then I hope we aren't there yet.

The CPU is clocking up - and is more useful - but GPU is still too under-clocked to be much use on battery.

If we can get game tuned power configs to set throttling for useful performance on battery that would solve the problem - with an option for custom tuning the limit for GPU/CPU per application.

I wonder if the solution might be a larger battery? Lenovo / Sony and others have platform batteries that extend capacity but fit in the socket of the original flush fitting battery. Or, run a larger battery through the AC/DC port. If the AC adapter is 2x a battery in power capacity get 2 batteries and hook them up to the laptop. Maybe name it the Gaming Battery :)

The 208 BIOS is an awesome update, makes battery mode much snappier as long as I don't need game level graphics too, but I am hoping for more.

Pierre990429
09-23-2013, 04:09 PM
Interesting posts here. Are there other people with G750JH, just to know what they experience ? (I see mainly G750JX/W posts)

btw, I remember how the Dell XPS M170 behaved (that was in 2005) : on battery, the CPU (Pentium M , excellent chip, was "faster" than the long-pipelined Pentium 4...) was at 800 MHZ (same), and the GPU (a Geforce Go 7800) had its core clock at 50%, I think. (you could select a lower rate with "powermizer")
hmm, I can't remember now if the Pentium M could "accelerate" if needed. Anyway, the AC/battery ratio seemed less "brutal" than here.

hmscott
09-23-2013, 04:19 PM
Doubt it. The GPU is more power-hungry than the CPU by far, and the battery won't be able to handle it. It is likely locked in the vbios of the card itself that it clocks down on battery. You could in theory mod the vbios - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=148273.0 if you're not afraid of setting fire to your laptop/battery/lap etc ;). I strongly discourage it (even if you find full support to change the voltage/clocks for all powerstates of the vcard).

I wouldn't sell Asus or Nvidia short, both could detune the graphics config to only have a certain percentage of elements active, tuned for useful performance, but low enough battery usage that it would be workable.

You might only get a couple of hours of gaming on the same or a larger extended battery, but it might be worth it.

I know when I was stuck remotely away from home, I appreciated being able to pack a few extra batteries and get some gaming in while remote from home - away from mains power.

villiansv
09-23-2013, 04:21 PM
Interesting posts here. Are there other people with G750JH, just to know what they experience ? (I see mainly G750JX/W posts)

btw, I remember how the Dell XPS M170 behaved (that was in 2005) : on battery, the CPU (Pentium M , excellent chip, was "faster" than the long-pipelined Pentium 4...) was at 800 MHZ (same), and the GPU (a Geforce Go 7800) had its core clock at 50%, I think. (you could select a lower rate with "powermizer")
hmm, I can't remember now if the Pentium M could "accelerate" if needed. Anyway, the AC/battery ratio seemed less "brutal" than here.

I haven't checked the 770M states yet, but my last gaming laptop had a 485M (still mostly the same architecture, really). That one had 3 powerstates - idle (50-smth mhz clock), low (70-smth mhz) and full power (500-smth mhz). When on battery, the videocard was stuck in the idle or low (i forget which). The ram clocks were similarly majorly downclocked. I suspect the 770M/780Ms are similarly very brutally downclocked to reduce powerdraw, and you can see that there is no smooth increase/decrease in mhz like the CPU can do. It's either "ghastly slow and energy efficient, but ok for browsing" or "fast and furious(ly drawing power)". Asus can't do much when nvidia's cards are built to do this.

If the 770M has more states that my 485M used to, then perhaps something can be done.

pombocom
09-23-2013, 07:25 PM
I had upgrade my G750Jx's bios to version 208... now my note is it blocked! When I press power button I see black screen and after 5 seconds the note automatically power off! :mad:

Thanks ASUS!

I had the same issue, after installing 208 bios update black screen and would not boot. To fix it: restart-F2 to get to BIOS and "load Default settings", it will fix the boot issue.

mihaimoga
09-23-2013, 07:43 PM
Hello guys,
after i load the bios with winflash, i click flash and then exit to restart, but when i click exit it doesen't auto restarts. I restarted manualy but bios 208 for G750JX is not flashed. I have the same problem with another laptop from Asus N750. What can i do?

kingfish
09-23-2013, 08:15 PM
guys, im not a computer geek or some one who loves tweaking but just want to share the result from my testing...im not sure if im doing the rigth thing. please advice accordingly.

thanks,

here is my result:

hmscott
09-23-2013, 08:26 PM
guys, im not a computer geek or some one who loves tweaking but just want to share the result from my testing...im not sure if im doing the rigth thing. please advice accordingly.
here is my result:

If you are on battery, it looks great! :)

When you plug in the AC cable, does the CPU usage go up over 3ghz?

You might want to try IntelBurnTest too, as running it on Maximum Stress can push the CPU usage above 3ghz on battery, at least for a while - it seems to cycle high usage and medium usage - but it does the same on battery and on AC.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/intelburntest.html

Interestingly, the Asus Power4Gear Hybrid App just gives a nice interface to the Power4Gear Power Saving (Battery) and Power4Gear High Performance power plans, so since you are on Balanced, the Power4Gear Hybrid app is only showing access to the High Performance Plan settings which isn't actually in use.

Strangely, the Windows Balanced Power Plan is doing a better job of giving high CPU usage during single threaded and multi-threaded usage - while the Power4Gear High Performance power plan - which should give the best performance in any usage - is actually only good for 1/2 core/threads - anything more and it sustains less CPU speed than the Balanced Power Plan.

kingfish
09-23-2013, 08:57 PM
If you are on battery, it looks great! :)

When you plug in the AC cable, does the CPU usage go up over 3ghz?

thanks hmscott,

i tried the IntelBurnTest using AC, the result is almost the same. I never notice any lag on my side and yes if i plugged in from the wall, the cpu goes up to 3.*

another result using AC:

hmscott
09-23-2013, 10:20 PM
Sweet! Looks good kingfish :)

Fyi, it looks like the lag for me is USB related - my USB wireless keyboard / trackpad - built in keyboard / trackpad are ok - going to try a USB wired keyboard / mouse later.

Kantm
01-21-2014, 06:43 AM
- i just found out i got the 0.77Ghz problem also, and decided to upgrade to BIOS 209 but seems like it doesn't change anything. I installed Power4Gear (i had an OEM windows installed, so, yeah, i got to install it) but how ever i do, it doesn't change squat. Either Power plans of native windows or power4gear couldn't do anything, it stays at 0.77 even thou i changed all minimum to 50% ...

i tried games, stuff, very laggy and the processor stays at .77 ...

Edit by cl-Albert: Check post #28 on 01-23-2014 04:56 AM at this thread (http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?42746-New-BIOS-209-for-the-G750JX/page3) by Kantm which reported a restart solved the problem?

hmscott
01-21-2014, 08:11 AM
- i just found out i got the 0.77Ghz problem also, and decided to upgrade to BIOS 209 but seems like it doesn't change anything. I installed Power4Gear (i had an OEM windows installed, so, yeah, i got to install it) but how ever i do, it doesn't change squat. Either Power plans of native windows or power4gear couldn't do anything, it stays at 0.77 even thou i changed all minimum to 50% ...

i tried games, stuff, very laggy and the processor stays at .77 ...

Power4Gear switches to it's own Battery profile even if you have selected another profile. As soon as you pull the power and run on battery, if Power4Gear is installed, it takes over, and nails the CPU to 800mhz (or less).

That is why I uninstalled Power4Gear and use the Windows Balanced Power plan with CPU Min/Max set to 0%/100% - works for me on JHA 203... for you if you still get .799ghz after removing Power4Gear, while on 209, I would try going into the BIOS and set Defaults/Optimized Defaults, and F10 reboot, and see if that helps.

Since you blew away the Asus OS install, you can't run winflash /nodate from Windows to install a previous BIOS like 208 - the BIOS EZflash won't allow downgrade of BIOS... unless someone has a trick to let you downgrade when flashing from the BIOS?

Let us know what you figure out :)

Nehmia
01-21-2014, 08:40 AM
The CPU is still @ 100% for me even on battery power with the latest 209

the secret is to simply switch back the power plan to high performance after Poer4Gear switched it to power saver and ensure it is set to 100% on battery power in the control panel advanced options for min. CPU utilization

JarekCyphus
02-20-2014, 09:36 AM
I'm having a problem with BIOS G750JHA.204 (the same as that 206 and 209) and I've had nothing but problems arise ever since it came out. Originally, I started with the issue of my laptop not always powering off after shutdown ( a problem fixed by disabling bluetooth ), and then now I have to cycle power once on my laptop just to get it to post on an initial boot.

Couple that with the fact I have erroneous battery indications (uninstalling Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery hasn't yet worked, either) and I'm at my wit's end on what to do, apart from rolling back my BIOS. I'm not entirely sure WHAT WHQL problems existed pre-204, but I don't think I had them in 203.

When in doubt, roll back.

Darnassus
02-22-2014, 02:59 PM
GT750JX (770m)

I'm on the BIOS 208, should I go to 209?

What's the big difference between the two revisions by the way?

success.erven
02-25-2014, 03:41 PM
Hey "hmscott " Why does my laptop doesn't work when i click the exit my G750JH will not restart? What do you think the problem of my laptop? Thanks!

frelancer23
05-14-2014, 10:15 PM
hello guys. ok its this i bought a g750JX and when im only in battery i got crashes on every game i play... i think i already tried everything you say here in the forum and nothing changes... bios is 209

hmscott
05-15-2014, 08:55 AM
hello guys. ok its this i bought a g750JX and when im only in battery i got crashes on every game i play... i think i already tried everything you say here in the forum and nothing changes... bios is 209

frelancer23, start a new thread to discuss this, add more details about the apps, crashes, and anything you tried to fix it.

The big difference between AC and battery is that the GTX GPU isn't running very fast, and it is possible the mode it runs in isn't compatible with the game settings you use on AC - you need to drop the eye candy way down on battery - try dropping down from 1920x1080, say try 3-4 resolution levels first, and see if that helps. Turn off anti-aliasing and post-processing.

The G750JW/JX/JH aren't going to game on battery very well at all. There isn't enough juice in the battery to replace the AC power adapter. Working around that, finding games that work well on battery and gaming with those only - anything you can do to reduce the demand on the GTX GPU.

I haven't seen crashing on battery when running games, just poor performance, so lets see if we can figure out why the crashing is happening. Gather the event log error entries from the crashes, crash dumps, error codes, etc, and put them in your first post in the new thread.

hmscott
05-15-2014, 08:57 AM
Hey "hmscott " Why does my laptop doesn't work when i click the exit my G750JH will not restart? What do you think the problem of my laptop? Thanks!

success.erven, sorry I missed this request, I see you are still logging in the forums, so I thought I would ask if you got this figured out? Everything running ok?