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TotalONE
11-11-2013, 05:36 PM
I know I probably sound lame, but could someone please explain to me what Linux is. I see it a lot in this forums and I have no idea what people talking about :(

Rockford
11-11-2013, 06:21 PM
Hello, Its a name, a name for a collection of "alternative" OS, with open source code, and the OS is generally free of charge..

So in other words, it does the same things that windows does (roughly), but no Mircosoft involvement..............

I hope my answer served you..

Picture showing" Linus/x" Torvalds, the founder of the Linux core/kernel>

29600

TotalONE
11-11-2013, 06:32 PM
Could you be a little bit more specific? What are the pros of this Linux OP?

Rockford
11-11-2013, 06:37 PM
Was not yesterday i ran LINUX myself, so i think other members got more updated info about that question..


15 years ago i used Mandrake (Linux)..

Arne Saknussemm
11-11-2013, 06:43 PM
The main advantage of the Linux OS, as far as I can tell, is to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user.

Basically it's yet another ploy to pull grungy alternative chicks.

Main advantages include non-compatability with all programs and peripherals ever invented

*Zygo and Nodens are going to kill me*

http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/ (http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/)

TotalONE
11-11-2013, 06:56 PM
Thank you, so its basically windows but free. I take it that it runs faster because it does not take as much processes as windows?


The main advantage of the Linux OS, as far as I can tell, is to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user.

Basically it's yet another ploy to pull grungy alternative chicks.

Main advantages include non-compatability with all programs and peripherals ever invented

*Zygo and Nodens are going to kill me*

http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/ (http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/)

Rockford
11-11-2013, 07:04 PM
if your not into programming, i think you are going to run into compatibility issues with apps and stuff, in the past it wasnt too user friendly, if you went from Windows -> Linux... Things might have changed over time, i leave that unspoken

Its good looking, and working great, but may not hand you the easy solutions that windows does..

Linux = Geek OS

chrsplmr
11-11-2013, 07:18 PM
The main advantage of the Linux OS, as far as I can tell, is to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user.

Basically it's yet another ploy to pull grungy alternative chicks.

Main advantages include non-compatability with all programs and peripherals ever invented

*Zygo and Nodens are going to kill me*

http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/ (http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/)

hahhaahahhahhaaaa ha.

The perfect tweak for the geek whose windows machine runs without flaw.
[.. said with the greatest of respect to said geek .. lol.] .c.

Rockford
11-11-2013, 07:20 PM
Bring back memories, i started working on "windows" before Mr Gates did i think..

But some years later the Windows came, and many of us got lazy, and dropped the programming..

(No internet at that time), i was 12-13 years old back then, and glued to the monitor, 30 years ago

More fun back then...

Zygomorphic
11-11-2013, 07:22 PM
The main advantage of the Linux OS, as far as I can tell, is to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user.

Basically it's yet another ploy to pull grungy alternative chicks.

Main advantages include non-compatability with all programs and peripherals ever invented

*Zygo and Nodens are going to kill me*

http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/ (http://techroadies.com/adv-and-dis-of-linux/)
Are you trying to tick us all off? :cool: Actually, using LINUX can drive the girls away at times too. They think you're really nerdy - too nerdy. Actually, as to compatibility, I was running a PC game from 1998 (16+32 bit) on a 64-bit LINUX installation, when Windows wouldn't run it (WINE is freakin' AWESOME). So yes, it has some compatibility issues, but no, it's not that bad. :p

I would recommend that you try it, since the average LINUX user actually cares about a nice (usable) desktop environment (unlike Windows 8), so the real desktop metaphor is still in force. Also, it's really, really fast.

Arne Saknussemm
11-11-2013, 07:24 PM
Thank you, so its basically windows but free. I take it that it runs faster because it does not take as much processes as windows?

Something like that I guess...like it's a trimmed down more efficient OS....Windows has a lot of baggage and management problems in it's improvement..it's not interested in speed since businesses don't perceive it's speed to be a problem..

Rockford
11-11-2013, 07:28 PM
you can "speed up" windows..

TotalONE
11-11-2013, 07:52 PM
No, Im not a programmer Im just really interested in exploring new things that I don't know about. Where should I start if I wanted to test Linux?

billyray520
11-11-2013, 08:05 PM
The most user friendly Linux is Ubuntu. Download 12.04.x LTS to your hdd. It's an image file, so you can burn to CD (or DVD) then you can boot from that disk to see it work. (Doesn't need to be installed) If you like what you see, you can install to your hdd/ssd. I have it running an Acer netbook, and dual boots with Windows 7 on my Desktop.

TotalONE
11-11-2013, 08:30 PM
Is that a newer version of Linux?


The most user friendly Linux is Ubuntu. Download 12.04.x LTS to your hdd. It's an image file, so you can burn to CD (or DVD) then you can boot from that disk to see it work. (Doesn't need to be installed) If you like what you see, you can install to your hdd/ssd. I have it running an Acer netbook, and dual boots with Windows 7 on my Desktop.

Rockford
11-11-2013, 08:32 PM
Ubuntu?, is it from Africa?

Shawnnepc
11-11-2013, 08:37 PM
Wait a little bit before getting into Linux.

SteamOS is supposed to be a gamercentric distro

Dr. Zchivago
11-11-2013, 08:42 PM
@Arne - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TotalONE
11-11-2013, 09:15 PM
Do you know the release day?


Wait a little bit before getting into Linux.

SteamOS is supposed to be a gamercentric distro

Poco OM
11-11-2013, 09:45 PM
"to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user."

Yeah that sounds rather accurate to me.

Linux/Linix *nix is simply an open source OS.
It has many many variants, Ubuntu, Mint, Gnome, Debian, KDE, BackBox, BackTrack etc etc etc.
With so many flavours you should be able to find one that suits your taste. Starters should start with Ubuntu as it is very user friendly unlike some of the other flavours, and require very little expertise. It's driver support is far better than being stated in this thread, and the *nix line up has come a long way since its early days.

Most importantly you should remember this, The windows is always the weakest point of your build as smashing it is often the easiest way to break in. Security conscious people know to secure their windows.

Rockford
11-11-2013, 10:07 PM
And ubuntu saw the light.

29604

Arne Saknussemm
11-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Are you trying to tick us all off?

LOL Zygo just trying to liven things up a bit :o :D I'm actually going to try Ubuntu 13.10 and try to run Titan SLI on it and play Metro....one of these days.....Now if I could bench Vantage on it......


Is that a newer version of Linux?

There are all these different "distros" (versions) of Linux....


http://youtu.be/gb_qHP7VaZE

Rockford
11-11-2013, 10:42 PM
Wont pour gas on Arne this time, i know how the threads ends if doing so..

TotalONE
11-12-2013, 12:06 AM
This latterly made me laugh so hard I choked. hahaha!;)


And ubuntu saw the ight.

29604

TotalONE
11-12-2013, 12:09 AM
Interesting, If I would o with that OS how would I seek for drivers? For example, if I have 670MX GPU what drivers Ill be looking for OS7 or 8 or it will be separate section for Linux? Sorry is this questions is extra newbi :/


"to enhance your forum cred as a cool loner geek who knows the dark arts of alternative OS management and is a Microsoft counter revolutionary and friend of the oppressed MS PC user."

Yeah that sounds rather accurate to me.

Linux/Linix *nix is simply an open source OS.
It has many many variants, Ubuntu, Mint, Gnome, Debian, KDE, BackBox, BackTrack etc etc etc.
With so many flavours you should be able to find one that suits your taste. Starters should start with Ubuntu as it is very user friendly unlike some of the other flavours, and require very little expertise. It's driver support is far better than being stated in this thread, and the *nix line up has come a long way since its early days.

Most importantly you should remember this, The windows is always the weakest point of your build as smashing it is often the easiest way to break in. Security conscious people know to secure their windows.

Zygomorphic
11-12-2013, 12:13 AM
The most user friendly Linux is Ubuntu. Download 12.04.x LTS to your hdd. It's an image file, so you can burn to CD (or DVD) then you can boot from that disk to see it work. (Doesn't need to be installed) If you like what you see, you can install to your hdd/ssd. I have it running an Acer netbook, and dual boots with Windows 7 on my Desktop.
You can also use a USB key via pendrivelinux. That means you don't even have to have a CD/DVD or the appropriate drive. Just an alternative! Second Ubuntu 12.04. LINUX Mint is another good one. There are other distros designed for the geeks who really want street cred. XD

Zygomorphic
11-12-2013, 12:15 AM
LOL Zygo just trying to liven things up a bit :o :D I'm actually going to try Ubuntu 13.10 and try to run Titan SLI on it and play Metro....one of these days.....Now if I could bench Vantage on it......



There are all these different "distros" (versions) of Linux....


http://youtu.be/gb_qHP7VaZE
I know, that's why I emphasized "trying". I thought it pretty funny, and the rate at which people are posting in this thread is pretty impressive. LINUX users all swear by their favorite distro, they're as bad as those farmers who swear by their brand of truck. 21st century IT equivalent.

Poco OM
11-12-2013, 12:08 PM
Interesting, If I would o with that OS how would I seek for drivers? For example, if I have 670MX GPU what drivers Ill be looking for OS7 or 8 or it will be separate section for Linux? Sorry is this questions is extra newbi :/

Welcome to the world of apt-get and sudo su.

http://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/69372

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-ringtail-nvidia.html

Drivers + How to.

Need a hows to install and set-up Ubuntu?

Personally I would suggest a small partition and a dual boot so you can try it out. Not being windows it can take a little getting used to as it is slightly different. Need any help just message me, or start a thread.

Poco OM
11-12-2013, 12:10 PM
And ubuntu saw the ight.

29604

It's posts like this that require a like button.

Thumbs up for the giggle.

TotalONE
11-12-2013, 01:11 PM
I was thinking of making a dual boot. Couple questions. I currently have 120 Gigs SSD and I think its a little low for having 2 OP on it plus some games, should I first upgrade to higher SSD capacity?

billyray520
11-12-2013, 02:00 PM
Do you have a data drive hdd as well? Linux is smart enough, that it can be installed on a second drive and still boot. I have my Ubuntu installation like that; D: drive partition. It's actually easier to set up Ubuntu (or Linux) on a hdd since you otherwise have to make adjustments for an SSD that are done automatically for you in Windows. Although in the case of my Acer netbook, it has just one SSD with just Ubuntu. What is the computer you are using?

Linux doesn't need the humongous amounts of disk space that Windows does. My Acer netbook is using barely 4 GB, and that is a full installation including Libre Office.

Don't forget to try it out on your system first (without installing.) That way you can see if all the drivers seem ok etc.

TotalONE
11-13-2013, 12:05 AM
Yes, I have 1TB data HDD. Its very slow though 5400 rpm. Should I make partitions before installing windows?
I use Asus G75vx notebook.


Do you have a data drive hdd as well? Linux is smart enough, that it can be installed on a second drive and still boot. I have my Ubuntu installation like that; D: drive partition. It's actually easier to set up Ubuntu (or Linux) on a hdd since you otherwise have to make adjustments for an SSD that are done automatically for you in Windows. Although in the case of my Acer netbook, it has just one SSD with just Ubuntu. What is the computer you are using?

Linux doesn't need the humongous amounts of disk space that Windows does. My Acer netbook is using barely 4 GB, and that is a full installation including Libre Office.

Don't forget to try it out on your system first (without installing.) That way you can see if all the drivers seem ok etc.

Zygomorphic
11-13-2013, 02:01 AM
Yes, I have 1TB data HDD. Its very slow though 5400 rpm. Should I make partitions before installing windows?
I use Asus G75vx notebook.
That's a good plan, though not necessary. Easiest plan is to install Windows first, then resize the Windows partition from within Windows, then install LINUX into the free space.

Nodens
11-13-2013, 01:56 PM
I kinda missed this thread heh.

@Arne: Lol! If only that worked for alternative chicks I'd probably have a harem. Luckily for me my bar-dwelling habits and tattoos constitute the use of Linux as a chick-magnet redundant :p :p :p


Thank you, so its basically windows but free. I take it that it runs faster because it does not take as much processes as windows?

The architecture of the Linux kernel (the core of the operating system) is superior. It is inherently faster than Windows. The drawback is that software made for Windows do not run natively on Linux and vice versa. Most Windows software can be run via WINE though. More on that below.


Actually, as to compatibility, I was running a PC game from 1998 (16+32 bit) on a 64-bit LINUX installation, when Windows wouldn't run it (WINE is freakin' AWESOME). So yes, it has some compatibility issues, but no, it's not that bad. :p


I want to add that the majority of Windows games can be run via WINE. What is problematic is the copy protection/DRM schemes some games employ. Those are not easy to make compatible because a lot of the time they rely on drivers that are made for Windows or employ rootkit like tactics (eg Starforce).
All this is changing now that Valve has jumped on the Linux bandwagon. Steam is now available for Linux with a lot of games running natively on the platform. SteamOS and SteamBox will also contribute to that in the coming days.


LOL Zygo just trying to liven things up a bit :o :D I'm actually going to try Ubuntu 13.10 and try to run Titan SLI on it and play Metro....one of these days.....Now if I could bench Vantage on it......


Actually you should be able to bench Vantage on Linux via WINE if it wasn't DX10. DX9- benchmarks will work just fine. Once RB v2.0 is out I plan to fix a few incompatibilities and also release a native Linux version. That will force all of you to run Linux in order to bench for the top scores as it will probably be faster than any stripped down version of Windows hohoho. I'm just evil like that! ;) EDIT: In all seriousness, this will provide a direct comparison between platform performance!

Regarding distros:

The majority of Linux distros are separated into two categories. Redhat based and Debian based. The difference is in the packaging system. Linux free software comes into packages that you can install and uninstall at will. Those are held in big software repositories and for workstation usage (anything you may use the computer for work) you'll find free software for. From programming, to office, to setting up security cameras, to whatever. Debian based distros come with .deb packages that are installed either with the appropriate GUI application or on command line via "apt-get". Redhat based distros come with .rpm packages that are again installed via GUI application or "yum" in command line. With a distro such as Ubuntu uou will most likely never have to use the command line if you don't want to unless you're following some kind of guide for something.

For cutting edge hardware you have 2 options:
Ubuntu == More user friendly that any Linux distro. Very similar to Windows in useability. Debian based.
Fedora == May have faster cutting edge hardware support on some things, slightly less user friendly than Ubuntu. Redhat based.

The rest of the distros out there have slower adoption rate of new hardware and probably a higher learning curve depending on the distro. Remember that in 99% of the cases all the drivers are present by default in Linux. You don't need to install extra drivers unless you have some piece of exotic hardware that needs to manually grab a driver for (doesn't have native support in the kernel). Exceptions to this rule are the Graphics card drivers. Native drivers from Nvidia or AMD need to be installed by the user. Linux will work out of the box without them but 3D performance will suffer.

If you ever have to use the command line, unlike Windows, Linux offers a complete manual system for everything. You just type "man command" and it will give you a full manual of the command and it's parameters in full detail.

billyray520
11-13-2013, 04:51 PM
Yes, I have 1TB data HDD. Its very slow though 5400 rpm. Should I make partitions before installing windows?
I use Asus G75vx notebook.

I thought you already had Windows installed on the SSD? Is anything on the second hdd?

Just a thought: Make a 100 GB partition at the end of the disk and leave it unused.

Create your Ubuntu installation CD/DVD/USB (I still recommend the LTS version)

Boot up Linux and install to 100 GB partition.

You might be asked to install another "swap" partition. Take a little chunk out your 100 GB partition. Ubuntu may automatically select a size. Basically the same as Window's page file

Arne Saknussemm
11-13-2013, 05:52 PM
Actually you should be able to bench Vantage on Linux via WINE if it wasn't DX10. DX9- benchmarks will work just fine. Once RB v2.0 is out I plan to fix a few incompatibilities and also release a native Linux version. That will force all of you to run Linux in order to bench for the top scores as it will probably be faster than any stripped down version of Windows hohoho. I'm just evil like that! ;) EDIT: In all seriousness, this will provide a direct comparison between platform performance!

Hmmm I was going to give this a go anyway but now I definitely will...cheers Nodens!

I'll have to look at which version then...fedora or ubuntu....can't stand the ubuntu name..so.....which would you recommend me?

By the way you boys seem a bit confused about some things...the kernel for instance... makes finger likin' good chicken....nothing to do with operating systems.....duh

wine.....I could go on.....

TotalONE
11-13-2013, 08:14 PM
I kinda missed this thread heh.

@Arne: Lol! If only that worked for alternative chicks I'd probably have a harem. Luckily for me my bar-dwelling habits and tattoos constitute the use of Linux as a chick-magnet redundant :p :p :p



The architecture of the Linux kernel (the core of the operating system) is superior. It is inherently faster than Windows. The drawback is that software made for Windows do not run natively on Linux and vice versa. Most Windows software can be run via WINE though. More on that below.



I want to add that the majority of Windows games can be run via WINE. What is problematic is the copy protection/DRM schemes some games employ. Those are not easy to make compatible because a lot of the time they rely on drivers that are made for Windows or employ rootkit like tactics (eg Starforce).
All this is changing now that Valve has jumped on the Linux bandwagon. Steam is now available for Linux with a lot of games running natively on the platform. SteamOS and SteamBox will also contribute to that in the coming days.



Actually you should be able to bench Vantage on Linux via WINE if it wasn't DX10. DX9- benchmarks will work just fine. Once RB v2.0 is out I plan to fix a few incompatibilities and also release a native Linux version. That will force all of you to run Linux in order to bench for the top scores as it will probably be faster than any stripped down version of Windows hohoho. I'm just evil like that! ;) EDIT: In all seriousness, this will provide a direct comparison between platform performance!

Regarding distros:

The majority of Linux distros are separated into two categories. Redhat based and Debian based. The difference is in the packaging system. Linux free software comes into packages that you can install and uninstall at will. Those are held in big software repositories and for workstation usage (anything you may use the computer for work) you'll find free software for. From programming, to office, to setting up security cameras, to whatever. Debian based distros come with .deb packages that are installed either with the appropriate GUI application or on command line via "apt-get". Redhat based distros come with .rpm packages that are again installed via GUI application or "yum" in command line. With a distro such as Ubuntu uou will most likely never have to use the command line if you don't want to unless you're following some kind of guide for something.

For cutting edge hardware you have 2 options:
Ubuntu == More user friendly that any Linux distro. Very similar to Windows in useability. Debian based.
Fedora == May have faster cutting edge hardware support on some things, slightly less user friendly than Ubuntu. Redhat based.

The rest of the distros out there have slower adoption rate of new hardware and probably a higher learning curve depending on the distro. Remember that in 99% of the cases all the drivers are present by default in Linux. You don't need to install extra drivers unless you have some piece of exotic hardware that needs to manually grab a driver for (doesn't have native support in the kernel). Exceptions to this rule are the Graphics card drivers. Native drivers from Nvidia or AMD need to be installed by the user. Linux will work out of the box without them but 3D performance will suffer.

If you ever have to use the command line, unlike Windows, Linux offers a complete manual system for everything. You just type "man command" and it will give you a full manual of the command and it's parameters in full detail.

Very useful information. Thank you. From my understanding, I more likely go with ''Ubuntu'' as my first Linux experience since you mentioned its more user friendly. Also, you indicated 3D performance will suffer. Do you mean it will be worse graphics or drop in FPS?




I thought you already had Windows installed on the SSD? Is anything on the second hdd?

Just a thought: Make a 100 GB partition at the end of the disk and leave it unused.

Create your Ubuntu installation CD/DVD/USB (I still recommend the LTS version)

Boot up Linux and install to 100 GB partition.

You might be asked to install another "swap" partition. Take a little chunk out your 100 GB partition. Ubuntu may automatically select a size. Basically the same as Window's page file

Yes, I do have Windows installed on SSD and have media HDD for 1TB.

billyray520
11-13-2013, 11:06 PM
Just so you understand: Ubuntu will create a boot loader using grub. It will always ask you, whenever you startup your notebook, which OS (even just for restarts.) My own preference is for stealth linux. I removed the C: windows drive and installed Ubuntu to the D:drive. The boot loader is on the D: drive alone. That way, whenever you startup your notebook Windows will automatically load. If you want Linux to load you have to pull up the boot menu at startup (F8 on some computers) then select your D:drive to boot. Or go into BIOS and select the D: drive to boot, if that is possible on your noteboook.

TotalONE
11-14-2013, 12:58 AM
Sounds reasonable. Once I get free time from work and everything Ill defiantly try this.


Just so you understand: Ubuntu will create a boot loader using grub. It will always ask you, whenever you startup your notebook, which OS (even just for restarts.) My own preference is for stealth linux. I removed the C: windows drive and installed Ubuntu to the D:drive. The boot loader is on the D: drive alone. That way, whenever you startup your notebook Windows will automatically load. If you want Linux to load you have to pull up the boot menu at startup (F8 on some computers) then select your D:drive to boot. Or go into BIOS and select the D: drive to boot, if that is possible on your noteboook.

Nodens
11-14-2013, 03:09 AM
Hmmm I was going to give this a go anyway but now I definitely will...cheers Nodens!

I'll have to look at which version then...fedora or ubuntu....can't stand the ubuntu name..so.....which would you recommend me?


I personally use Fedora for my linux boxes and CentOS for my linux server boxes. Both are RPM based which is vastly more comfortable to me (this is personal preference and also has to do a bit with me being very familiar with building my own RPM packages etc etc). Also Fedora is not "dumbed down" as Ubuntu is. And by that I don't mean that Ubuntu is bad in any way. I mean that Ubuntu goes to great extends to provide user friendliness/become similar to Windows for the average PC user that in some ways it gets restrictive as a Linux.

Also Fedora has better security coming with SELinux by default. Something I would suggest to disable (put in permissive mode, don't disable entirely) until you decide you want to get a hang of it. It is somewhat complicated but it makes the system very very secure.

Lastly Fedora is Redhat's testbed. Redhat is the biggest company on Linux. They make RHEL (Redhat Enterprise Linux) which is the defacto server Linux for the Enterprise market. This is why Fedora has usually faster cutting edge hardware support. New stuff are being implemented in Fedora, contributions by Redhat's engineers, then once they prove absolutely stable and secure they get merged in RHEL. This usually translates in faster bugfixes (a lot of other distros take bugfix patches from Fedora and merge them..it's open source after all and you can do whatever you want with the code. It's just that Fedora usually get them faster since Redhat engineers are on it).

Fedora, imo, is the best distro for the cutting edge hardware we're using unless you really want the utmost user friendliness, then it's Ubuntu for sure.
As a last note, if you go with it, get the KDE spin http://spins.fedoraproject.org/kde/ as you'll absolutely hate Gnome 3 window manager which is more like Win8's Metro (you can switch to any window manager at will though no matter how and what you initially install). Ubuntu also comes with Gnome 3 as default window manager but it's modified to be much better (it's called Unity).



By the way you boys seem a bit confused about some things...the kernel for instance... makes finger likin' good chicken....nothing to do with operating systems.....duh

wine.....I could go on.....

ROFL! Fun fact of the day. WINE means WINE Is Not an Emulator (it's funnier if you know what a recursive function is:p)


Very useful information. Thank you. From my understanding, I more likely go with ''Ubuntu'' as my first Linux experience since you mentioned its more user friendly. Also, you indicated 3D performance will suffer. Do you mean it will be worse graphics or drop in FPS?


3D performance will suffer if you don't install the native Linux driver for your graphics card and stick with the driver that Linux installs by default (eg nouveau for Nvidia cards).

Myk SilentShadow
11-14-2013, 04:24 AM
You know, when I first got into learning about Linux, about 6 or so months later I was browsing through on of my 2 fav Tech Mags and there was an ad in it about this new Certificate that anyone could study for and achieve. RHCE I believe it was(RedHat Certified Engineer), there are still times where I wish I had the money to do it :cool:

TotalONE
11-14-2013, 11:37 PM
Is there anyone I can message when Ill be installing Linux for any guidance?

Nodens
11-15-2013, 12:20 AM
You know, when I first got into learning about Linux, about 6 or so months later I was browsing through on of my 2 fav Tech Mags and there was an ad in it about this new Certificate that anyone could study for and achieve. RHCE I believe it was(RedHat Certified Engineer), there are still times where I wish I had the money to do it :cool:

Yeah it's a certification program much like ECDL although not pointless like ECDL (anyone that has been working with computers for a few years will find ECDL a complete and utter joke). RHCE gives certification on administering RHEL, which is an asset if you are into IT and most stuff learnt can be applied to any Linux system administration. The good thing about it, is that it's performance based. Meaning it's not based on ticking multiple choice answers like most of that stuff but actual performance on live systems. So you actually learn stuff and gain experience instead of maybe randomly passing a couple of questions or learning something completely in theory heh. I have no idea how much it costs though.
EDIT: I also have no idea if it requires a knowledge baseline.


Is there anyone I can message when Ill be installing Linux for any guidance?

I'll be happy to help and I'm sure Zygomorphic would be as well.

mikefaille
11-16-2013, 08:46 PM
Hu, I have 20 natives games that run on Linux. I'm game with "Dota 2" and Metro : "Last Light".
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198077799046/

Steam Linux native client rock ;-)

mikefaille
11-16-2013, 08:51 PM
«Is there anyone I can message when Ill be installing Linux for any guidance? »
I suggest you to open public thread on Asus forum to enhanced Linux support. Maybe, I can help you if I check your thread before success ;-)

Zygomorphic
11-17-2013, 11:21 AM
Is there anyone I can message when Ill be installing Linux for any guidance?
Me, for one. :)

Marco^^
11-29-2013, 10:26 AM
Hello, Its a name, a name for a collection of "alternative" OS

WRONG !!!

Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux) is ONLY a Kernel like Windows has, the NT Kernel ..., The Kernel wich Linus Torvalds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds) has built from an UNIX OS

The Kernel provides all the hardware support even for nvidia graphics cards and amd cards and chips on the motherboard.

A Distribution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution), is a summary of picked programms, there are diff distribution for diff purposes, for servers, for security reasons, and the newest versions of programms with bugfixes from the programmers

IF you dig deeper, you will find a distribution for all your needs, but linux is NOT the best way to go ... not even windows

BTW, Windows has not a proper way to manage the user controls, on a Linux you will always login as a NORMAL user, on Windows you can login as Admin and can get infected in notime ... as i recently saw on a Win7Pro laptop !

Marco^^
11-29-2013, 11:03 AM
Thank you, so its basically windows but free. I take it that it runs faster because it does not take as much processes as windows?

You can use it, and other free open software that comes with it, you can always decide to donate money to the shosen Distro and their programmers which provides security every day :)

Mostly Windows user, use open software and think it is "free of use" ... i payed for my Win license ...

There are differences between Win and Linux, starting with the used file system andthe kernel itself, all the things to know is a "digging deeper" part ...

All i can say, it is much nicer and compfortable TODAY using LINUX as it was 10years ago !!!

For normal use, shoose always linux, for gaming with STEAM in mind too, but other games like those from id software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Software) are much more work to run the game from the CD installer with a .run , using Wine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29) is not an option for me ... sorry

There are LIVE CD's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD_of_Ubuntu#Live_CD) to test your Hardware IF it is supported, it should not be a problem, but closed hardware like some sound cards are hard to get to work like creative stuff ... keep hands off them as a free software user then you be just fine

DISTROWATCH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DistroWatch) provides an overview of free to use OS'es with free software

There are some things to keep an eye on to get a "Distribution" ...

Data integrety, only download with SHA or MD5 checksums with a download manager, i use for Firefox DownThemAll (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/downloads/latest/201/addon-201-latest.xpi)

"Verify your download before use" like in this example on OpenSuse (http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse) downloads (http://software.opensuse.org/131/en)

BTW, i don't use Windows or Linux, just you know that !

Nodens
11-29-2013, 02:09 PM
Marco^^: Arne's post was clearly humorous in nature. Please refrain from being hostile against any users. Thanks.

Arne Saknussemm
11-29-2013, 03:10 PM
Yes just a joke....made funnier by the fact I am installing Linux as we speak....or trying to...

Nodens, can you help...I have the universal usb installer and I'm trying to make a bootable USB install of the Fedora KDE you recommended but it's not on the dropdown list of distros....what do I pick? do you know?

Nodens
11-29-2013, 05:04 PM
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB :)

Zygomorphic
11-30-2013, 12:56 PM
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB :)
I've noticed that Fedora in the past doesn't install onto Live USB's the way that Debian/Ubuntu/Mint do. The "Universal USB Installer" utility is really nice, as is pendrivelinux installer. :)

Nodens
11-30-2013, 01:47 PM
Yeah, Fedora had its own USB utility due to its persistent changes feature. It installed differently on a USB stick so it would allow you to make changes that were actually saved between boots.

Zygomorphic
11-30-2013, 05:41 PM
Yeah, Fedora had its own USB utility due to its persistent changes feature. It installed differently on a USB stick so it would allow you to make changes that were actually saved between boots.
Depending on what you want to save, Ubuntu can do it too. I'm not certain if it allows OS customizations to be saved, or only user files. That's what the persistance file is for. You just have to configure it with the size you want, and you're all set! :)

Nodens
11-30-2013, 05:48 PM
Yeah I know. Thing is when fedora did it, no bootable usb tool supported this so they made their own tool for it so you can configure persistance file while making it. And since they had their own tool, the other tools didn't backcopy Fedora support into them. Imho they should so there's a unified tool for everything.

Hyper Droid
11-30-2013, 08:30 PM
If you ONLY use it as a boot-drive, then I personally would say no... But it depends... If you use the SSD (on Windows) for games apart from just using it as your boot-drive... then I'd say yes.

I for example have just bought a 250GB SSD for my build. I plan on using it ONLY for games, and for the OS. The rest goes onto my 2TB HDD.

So.. if you will be doing using it for the same reasons, even for one at 120GB, then I'd say there's no reason to get another SSD.

But... it's up to you! :p

Zygomorphic
12-01-2013, 10:14 PM
Yeah I know. Thing is when fedora did it, no bootable usb tool supported this so they made their own tool for it so you can configure persistance file while making it. And since they had their own tool, the other tools didn't backcopy Fedora support into them. Imho they should so there's a unified tool for everything.
Project for me? XD

Nodens
12-01-2013, 10:33 PM
Heh, I went to check where the source for the tool is and I found out that Universal USB Installer actually supports Fedora now by default. 19 since version 07/10/13 – Version 1.9.3.7: Update to support Knoppix 7.2, Sugar on a Stick 19, Fedora 19, Pear OS 7, Korora 19, and Antix 13.

abvolt
12-02-2013, 02:10 AM
The last time I tried linux was with mandrake and found it requires too much thinking power, Guess I'm stuck with micro$hift's point & click .

Nodens
12-02-2013, 12:06 PM
USB installs are for people who do not want to burn a dvd for installation and for those who need a portable/mobile OS. Even Windows is trying to take this route now with WindowsToGo. You should verify integrity of your download prior to making the USB bootable media.

Arch is certainly not new. And it's a great distro but I would not suggest it to Linux newbies (although it has excellent documentation, it is more technically oriented than most).

Also distros like CentOS are server oriented and far from usable for people with high end, cutting edge hardware (like most people on this forum). CentOS is an alternative to RHEL and as such it focuses on enterprize class stability/security and not introducing new features and/or hardware support fast. I run it on my rented VM server in Germany. But I would never suggest it for a user of ROG motherboards and notebooks unless they actually work with CentOS and want it for testing stuff on it (in which case they're probaby in IT field of work and won't mind any hoops they'll have to jump through).

Myk SilentShadow
12-02-2013, 12:21 PM
Ahhh documentation....who remembers the days of flipping through the manuals that came with Win 9x versions? Yep, I read through mine and learnt commands from there and then kinda explored a little....guess it's why I took to Linux so readily too. Really need to try and build a Linux box so I can mess around with it whenever I want to.

Nodens
12-02-2013, 04:56 PM
Ahhh documentation....who remembers the days of flipping through the manuals that came with Win 9x versions? Yep, I read through mine and learnt commands from there and then kinda explored a little....guess it's why I took to Linux so readily too. Really need to try and build a Linux box so I can mess around with it whenever I want to.

Wish more people would RTFM :p


I dont know CentOS, i just refer to this article, seems to be a very fast OS


It is fast but it is server oriented.



My pointed finger was to Antergos, Gnome3 desktop


Fedora comes with the same Gnome 3.8 version (and so do other distros), that's nothing special. But thing is most of us who have been using Gnome for years think that Gnome 3 is bad and its direction is entirely wrong. We're converting to KDE or, if low resource usage is required, to other light window managers like xfce. Ubuntu's Unity is the only Gnome3 variant that I can personally stand, for a bit.



i will later see if the hardare on it if useable on a freeOS, special the super secret sound chip, wich is a realtek one ....


There's nothing secret about the onboard audio codec. Everyone knows it's Realtek, it's not secret. The only thing special is how some ROG boards implement it (SupremeFX) but that's a matter of board design and increasing sound quality (by reducing EMI vulnerability, increasing SNR etc).

Myk SilentShadow
12-03-2013, 02:22 AM
Wish more people would RTFM :p


Oh I know right? heh one of the best acronyms ever...that and A.D.I.D.A.S(though not computer related) :cool:

Myk SilentShadow
12-03-2013, 10:57 AM
It's totally sercet, there is NO paper not even in the handbook wich soundchip is used ... U can google it with +Distro and the outcome is Realtek chip xxxx, i hope the revision used is supported by OS, otherewise have to get Windows :/ wich stinks !
http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_V_GENE/#specifications

To topic ...

software.opensuse.org (http://software.opensuse.org/find) #Steam (http://software.opensuse.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=steam&search_devel=false&search_unsupported=false&baseproject=openSUSE%3A13.1)

Googling found me your answer in less than a second


Like many of the higher end Ivy Bridge boards, the Maximus V Gene is powered by a Realtek ALC898 audio chipset but is billed as SupremeFX III built-in 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC by Asus due to some extra circuitry that improves the sound performance. So far, the audio performance has been excellent.

Taken from here: http://brycv.com/blog/2012/ivy-bridge-motherboards-asus-maximus-v-gene-and-a-new-workstation/

Nodens
12-03-2013, 03:24 PM
It's not secret at all. And you don't need to even google up anything all you need is to look at the drivers which are Realtek drivers... Not to mention that googling the vendor and device id will give you Realtek in half a second (which is standard practice.. lspci in Linux). Also the majority of the reviews out there on every review site will tell you immediately that it's Realtek based.

Zygomorphic
12-04-2013, 02:34 AM
Wish more people would RTFM :p
Very true, I can't think of the number of times that people have asked me how to do things when the instructions stated it in what I would consider to be plain English...




It is fast but it is server oriented.
Yes, and so it's way behind on hardware support as previously mentioned. Actually, I haven't found it too boot that much faster than any other distro that I have installed on my laptop. The fastest might have been Ubuntu. Mint's pretty fast, Fedora slightly slower, CentOS around that speed, and OpenSUSE and Sabayon bringing up the rear.



Fedora comes with the same Gnome 3.8 version (and so do other distros), that's nothing special. But thing is most of us who have been using Gnome for years think that Gnome 3 is bad and its direction is entirely wrong. We're converting to KDE or, if low resource usage is required, to other light window managers like xfce. Ubuntu's Unity is the only Gnome3 variant that I can personally stand, for a bit.
I think that LINUX Mint has a nice version of GNOME 3, to be honest, it called Cinnamon...looks like Windows though. Wouldn't consider it GNOME 3, to be fair.
I do like KDE a lot, as well as LXDE. Both of those are good DE's. Never played with XFCE, since LXDE is lighter (and faster), and KDE is prettier. No need, but won't dismiss it as not an alternative.

Nodens
12-04-2013, 10:26 AM
Roger that Zygomorphic. I have not seen Cinnamon lately, so I forgot about it entirely. I wish Gnome decision makers would just change their mind and head back to Gnome 2 design which was great. Gnome 2 was nice because it was light on resources and also very very powerful, with its applets, and configurability on everything. Now it's as much a tablet interface as the Win8 Metro/Modern interface is (although thank god it does not implement its own ridiculous APIs like the later does heh). Personally I always liked KDE but since it was much heavier than Gnome 2 I preferred using Gnome. Nowadays it's KDE all the way unless it's older hardware than can benefit from something lighter (I'm also a fun of the Qt library framework that KDE is based on-- RealBench uses it as well:)). LXDE is absolutely great as well!
XFCE is more like a default choice for people doing embedded stuff/micro Linux installations (If I''m not mistaken the OCZ Toolbox for SSD firmware updates is using XFCE for example).

Zygomorphic
12-04-2013, 11:14 AM
Wrong ?
Realtek ALC892 (http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_maximus_v_gene_motherboard_review,2.html)

nervermind, i find out if sound will work with newest kernel ...
Let us know if it works with the latest kernel!

@Nodens, I've used Qt with Python before, and it's actually really easy to use, which I like. Yes, GNOME 2 was really well done, and didn't draw too much CPU. Oh, and if you want GNOME 2 back, try out the MATE desktop environment, that's a fork of GNOME 2 designed to look like GNOME 2.

Nodens
12-04-2013, 01:42 PM
@Nodens, I've used Qt with Python before, and it's actually really easy to use, which I like. Yes, GNOME 2 was really well done, and didn't draw too much CPU. Oh, and if you want GNOME 2 back, try out the MATE desktop environment, that's a fork of GNOME 2 designed to look like GNOME 2.

I'm aware of MATE but it's really too late now, heh. I've already converted to KDE. And there are some native KDE tools which I absolutely love (eg KDiff..best visual diff tool ever!). I guess I could put it on my poorly performing Dell laptop which is running Kali Linux (and Win8.1) mainly because I use it for security auditing...I currently have it configured with LXDE.

Zygomorphic
12-05-2013, 02:28 AM
I'm aware of MATE but it's really too late now, heh. I've already converted to KDE. And there are some native KDE tools which I absolutely love (eg KDiff..best visual diff tool ever!). I guess I could put it on my poorly performing Dell laptop which is running Kali Linux (and Win8.1) mainly because I use it for security auditing...I currently have it configured with LXDE.
I'm going to give MATE a try in the next few days, since I'm going to be upgrading my Linux Mint installation to version 16 (the latest). Will add the MATE DE as well...

Nodens
12-05-2013, 01:32 PM
Let me know your impressions:) One specific thing I liked about Gnome2 was that it was inherently faster on remote desktop connections (I use NX--and one more thing I hate about Gnome3, it has issues with NX). But one of these days I'm going to sit down and port the .deb package for Splashtop Streamer to .rpm since Splashtop doesn't' seem interested in doing it anytime soon (which is ridiculous considering how simple it is to build the equivalent rpm package). And I'll probably submit it to RPMFusion so everyone can actually use it. This would solve my only problem with KDE at the moment since Splashtop is insanely faster than NX (which is insanely faster than VNC). Splashtop means ultra fast remote desktop with all the bells and whistles of KDE.

Zygomorphic
12-06-2013, 12:24 AM
I've used NX a good bit, and it is pretty fast. :) Never tried splashtop though. I'm probably going to upgrade my installation tonight, so should post back and let you know! :)

Zygomorphic
12-06-2013, 03:01 AM
Well, I've finished the upgrade now, so I'm trying it out. I've noticed that it runs faster, and the annoying keyboard lag in Firefox is now completely gone! :) I'm using the MATE version, and it looks sort of like Windows, I'm going to see about changing that to the older layout that I remember. LM16 is definitely faster than 14, which is, of course, really nice, since it makes everything seem so much more responsive! :)

SlackROG
12-23-2013, 04:44 AM
They always keep telling me Google is your friend, pretty easy to read all you want online.

1. Linux is the kernel not the system.

Surf the Web don't be lazy! LOL...

Linux/Unix geeks can be a rough bunch as they say RTFM! :)

Click the links below and learn! :)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+Linux

READ --> https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

Have fun! :)

Zygomorphic
12-24-2013, 12:04 AM
@SlackROG, we are well aware that technically LINUX is the kernel, but we all use it to refer to the operating systems based on the LINUX kernel as a whole. Much like all the BSD distros that are all based upon varies versions of BSD UNIX. It's just easier that way. We're fundamentally lazy, and it saves on disk space to write LINUX instead of GNU/LINUX...(though the rant above was worth a lot of GNU/LINUX expansions :cool:)

Antronman
12-24-2013, 12:20 AM
Unix...ahh Unix. Unix is even more obscure than Linux. But I would say that it is better. I'm sorry, but I don't find Linux to be a very worthwhile OS right now. Very limited support, and when you're gaming or developing you need as much support as you can get. I find Unix better for the reason that it isn't supposed to be as much of a general purpose/easy modification OS, as it is a server OS. Very straightforward, you can easily issue specific commands.

SlackROG
12-24-2013, 01:11 AM
Zygomorphic, yes I know that to much typing will take up uneeded disk space, LOL...

Yes of course most just refer to it as the OS, but it's always best to start our Linux Nix Noobie friends out on the right foot. ;)

There's already to much confusion actually over what Linux & GNU really are...

Antronman I'm not sure what you mean by Linux not being worthwhile and then trying to compare Unix as being better with no explainations is a bit vague. Also saying Unix isn't a general purpose/easy modification OS isn't exactly correct either about Linux.

You're making it sound like all Linux are the same and they're not, there are over 300 different LInux distros and for those that didn't know it check out http://distrowatch.com

Please don't place Linux into a one size fits all catergory because it's not. There are Linux distros for development, science and math, then there are distros for security & forensics. There are of course the end-user distors as you put it general, but there are also distros for servers and enterprise usage, hmm let's see, can you say --> RED HAT? Red Hat is no longer end-user, that's Fedora, Red Hat is Enterprise.

My point is, your replies are vague with no examples of anything...

I'm a Geek I know Unix and Linux, I've used many of the BSDs out there and I've used almost every big named Linux distro and then some. I've been into Nix over 13 years.

Unix does not have better support when it comes to gaming, sure development issues on certain levels could certainly be better, but developement in Linux is also very good.

As far as user friendly, out of the box experience, there is not any Unix out there that can compete with a Linux distro for ease of use 'out the box' experience. PC-BSD comes close but it still isn't as smooth.

Linux has far superior Consumer based hardware support, and Unix has better Commerical Server based hardware support.

Nvidia and ATI also has better support in Linux over Unix.

Unix is still a better server based system and Linux is a better desktop system, but Linux also makes great servers.

Linux is just as straight forward, even better suited towards the end-user novice.

I'm sorry but Unix is more complicated to learn for the newbie over Linux.

FreeBSD as we all know, the most popular of BSDs, but is also extremely difficult to work with most conusmer based hardware. Perfect example of what I mean, go out and build any desktop box you like with just about any consumer brand named hardware and see how well your luck runs for trying to get it to work with FreeBSD, even NetBSD, or OpenBSD, when compared to support and working well in Linux.

It's a fact FreeBSD is not friendly towards most consumer based brands of hardware, and I don't mean going over to the FreeBSD site and reading what hardware it supports and then going out and buying it, I'm simply saying, without evern looking and just building a box and trying to see if FreeBSD will support it, most of the time like that it won't. But just buying typically any type of consumer based hardware will work in LInux.

Heck, nowadays you can go out and buy pretty much any consumer based new laptop out there and have it working right away in Linux, try that in Unix... I'm even running a brand new G75VW in Slackware, stripped to the bone and only running Openbox.

I also have Steam running great in Slackware, and I've been gaming in Linux since Nvidia has been putting out drivers for Linux, and Unix has never been able to compete on the same level of gaming performance and support as Linux.

I'm no Fan Boy, use what you like, but to sit here and tell people Unix is easier and has better overall support is silly. Plus this is a gaming forum so I'm sure most people here are interested in what is better suited for gaming and the fact is it's Linux.

And worldwide, online support is far superior for Linux for the desktop user, be it forums, irc, mailing lists etc...

It's a fact, Linux still rules the desktop world over Unix

Cheers

Nodens
12-24-2013, 02:41 AM
Don't compare apples an oranges. Comparing all-purpose with server oriented is wrong on so many levels. Still there are very decent Linux server oriented distros. RHEL on the enterprise level (and Redhat's support) competes head to head with every other *nix based option. And CentOS is quite decent for any small or home server. In the server market it all boils down to what exactly you're building and for what purpose (for example good luck trying to build a server with a heavy algebra application with GPU acceleration on BSD..it's impossible).

But we're talking about a desktop alternative here and no other *nix variant comes even close to Linux kernel based distros in delivering support for the latest hardware etc.

Also I do not understand what you mean by "very limited support" or by "very straightforward, you can easily issue specific commands". First statement depends on what you have in mind. For development there's all the support you could ever need (actually more support than ANY other platform). For gaming with native Linux games the same. If you're talking about gaming with Windows binaries, well yeah. That's beyond the scope of Linux and falls into power-user trickery.
The second statement makes no comprehensible sense at all.

SlackROG
12-24-2013, 08:10 AM
You're right this is apple and oranges, LOL...

Unix is great but Linux desktop support is far superior, especially given the mass amount of software that supports Linux when compare to Unix, you can't even compare the two.

And this being a gaming forum, Linux still reigns game supreme! :)

Oh and I'm a Slacker, that's Slackware for all those that don't know, the 'Most Unix Like' of all Linux distros, a FACT! So if anyone has room to bark it's certainly me! I know LInux and I know Unix... LOL

Don't worry Antronman we still love you, hehe... :)

Zygomorphic
12-25-2013, 01:50 AM
You're right this is apple and oranges, LOL...

Unix is great but Linux desktop support is far superior, especially given the mass amount of software that supports Linux when compare to Unix, you can't even compare the two.

And this being a gaming forum, Linux still reigns game supreme! :)

Oh and I'm a Slacker, that's Slackware for all those that don't know, the 'Most Unix Like' of all Linux distros, a FACT! So if anyone has room to bark it's certainly me! I know LInux and I know Unix... LOL

Don't worry Antronman we still love you, hehe... :)
Let's all make sure that we are kind in our joking. We can never know when something from our part of the world will be rude to somebody in another. It just is more comfortable for all involved. :)

I haven't used Slackware at all, though I have booted a live DVD of Slax in a virtual machine just to see how it turned out. It ran okay, but then again, most things do in VirtualBox.

Antronman
12-26-2013, 02:43 AM
Look, Linux is a great OS. For a free, open source OS it is incredible. But "being a gaming forum" Linux does not win at all...Rather, Windows does. Sorry, but support for Linux is extremely limited as you might know. I don't dislike Linux, don't get me wrong. After all, a good chunk of my school installed it on their school-issued netbooks to bypass all the network filters and monitoring. It's just not comparable to Windows when it comes to gaming. And "being a gaming forum"...

Zygomorphic
12-26-2013, 08:41 PM
Look, Linux is a great OS. For a free, open source OS it is incredible. But "being a gaming forum" Linux does not win at all...Rather, Windows does. Sorry, but support for Linux is extremely limited as you might know. I don't dislike Linux, don't get me wrong. After all, a good chunk of my school installed it on their school-issued netbooks to bypass all the network filters and monitoring. It's just not comparable to Windows when it comes to gaming. And "being a gaming forum"...
Yeah, we are primarily a gaming-oriented forum, but we are not just that. We have users who use ASUS equipment, and most often for gaming. I use mine for programming, and actually very little gaming, to be honest. Thus, for some of us who are interested, we also use LINUX. Since we have enough users, we have a section oriented at least in part towards us. We are aware of the relative gaming merits of LINUX and Windows, and that as time passes, LINUX will become another gaming-worthy platform. Valve's porting Steam is the second step in that direction (after John C. of id Software first started with the Quake LINUX port).

Nodens
12-27-2013, 08:06 PM
John Carmack is a personal hero as far as I'm concerned. He blatantly refused to take money from MS to jump on the DirectX bandwagon and stood his ground with OpenGL while being entirely innovating as usual. Not many studios would do that (or should I say almost no one did heh). He has my outmost respect.

Antronman
12-27-2013, 11:58 PM
Yes, except with DirectX Linux would have much more support, and could be a tech powerhouse.

Myk SilentShadow
12-28-2013, 02:30 AM
Yes, except with DirectX Linux would have much more support, and could be a tech powerhouse.

Why? OpenGL is a far superior API than DirectX could ever be and *if* it was supported on Linux, we'd have to wait years between updates...what's so good about that?

Antronman
12-28-2013, 03:00 AM
More support, more people would use it. Bam. Now Linux is sold for a low, low price. Easy to manipulate, support for tons of games and productivity software.

Myk SilentShadow
12-28-2013, 04:35 AM
If DirectX was on Linux, everybody would stop using Linux, period. The idea is to get away from Micro$haft, not cling to it.

Zygomorphic
12-28-2013, 11:21 AM
Why? OpenGL is a far superior API than DirectX could ever be and *if* it was supported on Linux, we'd have to wait years between updates...what's so good about that?
Agreed! I have used both a bit - and COM (which is DirectX's API base) extensively. A C-based API is always better, more portable, and easier to understand. Have you by any chance read John Carmack's OpenGL rant? It's famous, and a good read.

DirectX at it's core isn't bad, it is just the COM they use to run it that stinks.

Myk SilentShadow
12-28-2013, 11:31 AM
Never heard of it Zygo and my brain would probably implode, trying to understand haha :cool:

Nodens
12-28-2013, 06:10 PM
Yes, except with DirectX Linux would have much more support, and could be a tech powerhouse.


More support, more people would use it. Bam. Now Linux is sold for a low, low price. Easy to manipulate, support for tons of games and productivity software.

Ehm these statements makes no sense. Why would it have more support? And more support for what? Also all "productivity" software use OpenGL. You keep saying "more support" without any explanation on what you mean by this blanket statement.. Easy to manipulate what? Support for tons of games? How so? Linux providing DX APIs does not immediately make Windows games run on it. They still need porting. Which beats the purpose of using DX in the first place. Steam on Linux/SteamOS and the majority of big game engines providing Linux exporting is what's going on now and is the future of gaming.


I'll second what Zygomorphic said. As a person who works with both *nix and Windows platforms, the COM/DCOM object hell of Windows is very developer unfriendly, frankly a mess. Also in regards to graphic APIs, DirectX has its merits but is vastly inferior to OpenGL as APIs due to extensibility alone. Sure at one point DX was superior feature-wise only but that was only during the time OpenGL had been frozen for years.. which was due to MS antitrust practices (paying developers and producers to adopt DX in order to form a pseudomonopoly--which worked).

Linux means Open. DirectX would be implemented on it in a heartbeat IF MS allowed it. DX is a proprietary/closed API for a reason. That is to force Windows on the consumer PC market via the gaming market. If MS opened the API, it would really have no raison d'etre.

Zygomorphic
12-28-2013, 09:12 PM
Exactly, @nodens, I hate the COM system, it stinks, regardless of what language you are using. Even worse is when MS manages to get COM declared the standard interface for other programming libraries that it doesn't develop. Then everyone is stuck with it, and getting LINUX support is terribly difficult (if not outright impossible).

@Myk, it isn't that bad, John C. writes on a number of different levels, and his QuakeCon keynotes are well worth watching. I.E. paying homage to the god of computer graphics... They are really informative, and he just talks and answers questions, even off the wall ones about his cars...

Nodens
12-29-2013, 11:12 PM
Exactly, @nodens, I hate the COM system, it stinks, regardless of what language you are using. Even worse is when MS manages to get COM declared the standard interface for other programming libraries that it doesn't develop. Then everyone is stuck with it, and getting LINUX support is terribly difficult (if not outright impossible).


Yeah! I avoid the use of COM as much as possible. Often doing more work in order to avoid using COM objects. I'll gladly do a few hours of extra work to avoid it if I can. Unfortunately that is not always possible under Windows (specially with DX). Sometimes you just can't avoid it. I prefer working with shared memory interfaces for inter-process communication but message queues and semaphores work for me also. COM is just...Meh..

EDIT: In fact I have yet to meet a programmer who actually likes COM. I've met people who are so used to it that it doesn't bother them anymore (doing things mechanically) but no one that actually likes it... And prior to SxS assemblies everyone outright hated it due to the infamous dll hell you could end up with..

martyn
01-06-2014, 08:13 PM
Have you by any chance read John Carmack's OpenGL rant? It's famous, and a good read.

Do you have a link to this? Not laziness, just curiosity and wanting to ensure i read the correct article. I'm sure it would interest others out there also.

Zygomorphic
01-07-2014, 11:21 AM
Here is the rant:
http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/carmack122396.html

I have used COM enough with .NET languages to be okay with it. In those places, it isn't so bad, but I would prefer to use DllImport() calls instead, because that's more portable - it's also easier to use.

martyn
01-07-2014, 06:19 PM
Thanks Zy - Duly read, heck, some even understood (non programmer) ;) ....... A shame about the yellow type though - copy paste into notepad or word highly recommended to struggling through the text in yellow on black

Zygomorphic
01-07-2014, 07:56 PM
Thanks Zy - Duly read, heck, some even understood (non programmer) ;) ....... A shame about the yellow type though - copy paste into notepad or word highly recommended to struggling through the text in yellow on black
Ahh, the classic monitors... :D No problems about the link, it's a pretty easy Google find if you know what you're looking for. Oh, and if you want more by the same guy, Google "John Carmack Quakecon keynote" and go to the Youtube links. He's got lots of stuff "on there". ;)

Arne Saknussemm
01-24-2014, 01:04 PM
U R FULL OF CRAP !

This really is not the way we go about on this Forum and while I have no say here other than that of fellow user I'd ask for no more.

Express your opinion by all means but in a civilised manner...the contributions in this thread are not good ones....:(

Nodens
01-24-2014, 08:25 PM
@Marco. First of all you should correct your attitude towards other users. This is your second warning in this very thread. There won't be a third one, it will be a vacation to cool off instead. We respect each other here and talk in a civilized manner.

Now regarding your points:

a) You seem to want to be "entirely correct" but you are not. The term UNIX or UNIX variants is used nowadays for ALL operating systems following the UNIX philosophy. What you claim is absolutely wrong. If you want to be "entirely correct" then there is no UNIX operating system AT ALL! The last true UNIX was SCO Unixware. Everything else, including BSD and Solaris, are POSIX compliant operating systems. The Open Group has control of the UNIX trademark and uses it for all "Open" named operating systems but that does not make them UNIX. They are what they are and that is POSIX compliant operating systems. Period.

b) Linux is not just for desktop. That is your own misconception based on lack of knowledge. There are millions of servers out there running RHEL and CentOS. Your opinion is not fact. It is just your opinion.

c) You also make the mistaken assumption that server == ZFS filesystem. This is your first mistake. The choice of filesystem depends on the workload and hardware configuration. ZFS is not the defacto standard for all servers. Quite the contrary, very few servers with specific workloads use ZFS. Your second mistake is that you think Linux does not support ZFS when it does so. Even the link you posted tells you that. Did you even read it? Because at this point I am getting the idea that you are just randomly googling stuff and copy/paste things that you do not even understand.

d) BSD license is better than GPL for what purpose? And for whom? Do you even know the differences?
BSD: A permissive license that lets anyone use the code for whatever purpose including commercial gain/closed source projects.
GPL: A copyleft license that forces you to keep the source open of anything you derive our of open source work.

So this boils down to:
BSD license is better for you if you plan to steal code for your personal benefit. Or if you plan to use open source technologies to develop something closed source that you can profit from.

GPL license is better for open source software as a total and for every coder that contributes to an open source project as it protects the code against the above practices. Someone will not steal the work you donated to the public so they can profit. If they use the code they have to keep it open.

Which translates to GPL is a better license for everyone other than those that want to profit with other people's work.

e) Has to do with license clashes. GNU toolchain is far superior than anything on these platforms and it's a standard in development. So that's actually a HUGE loss for BSD.

f) Random articles on the net. I don't know if I should even comment on that anyhow. The reality of things is that you choose an OS for your needs. BSD on the Desktop is not going to happen. Hardware support alone is miles in the past.


Regarding your comments on John Carmack. I don't know why you try to talk about things you don't know or don't understand.

Carmack has given a huge battle for OpenGL when the battle was going on. The fact is that Carmack was the OpenGL evangelist and DID not take the money MS was pumping out to all studios for them to adopt DX. Right above your post there is even a link by Zygomorphic with Carmack's comments on the subject back in the day. Did you read it? Obviously not.

RAGE is indeed using OpenGL. I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think it's a DX engine you're sadly mistaken yet again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_5

I also have no idea why you posted the rest of the links!?!

Zygomorphic
01-25-2014, 01:13 PM
@Marco, I thought I should weigh in on this issue. I think we are discussing two different things, from two different workloads. BSD has certain advantages, and LINUX has certain advantages. It all depends on what you are trying to do with your system. Just like the discussion about DirectX vs OpenGL, Carmack is weighing in as a user, whose loyalty depends on the quality of each competitor. There are advantages to both systems, and depending on your background, you can lean one way or another.

@Nodens, LLVM / Clang has gotten a whole lot better in the last few years, their rate of development is actually quite impressive. There are benchmarks that indicate that it can generate "faster" code than GCC, but it depends on compiler flags and particular systems, so its not much of an advantage. As you know, hand-optimized assembly is faster still. :D

@Marco, @Nodens point about the licenses are also valid, GPL protects the open source community, and that's why it's so lengthy. BSD does not. If you prefer your work to be usable and proprietizable (<- ?new word? :cool:), the BSD license allows that. The GPL does not. However, @Nodens, there is the LGPL, which is designed to protect code that calls a GPL library, so any changes to the library itself must be released, but not the code that calls said library. In my opinion, each of these licenses has a place. LINUX, last I checked is under GPL v2, because Linus Torvaalds said that there are too many people involved in the LINUX system now that he would have to clear a change to v3 with. He decided to stick to v2 for the time being.

As to BSD on the desktop, I can't judge. If more hardware drivers get written, then yes, it could be done. Apple has proved that BSD-derivatives can be used as consumer OS's, at least for limited sets of specific hardware. For the masses of other systems, we can't say at present. Windows manages it, and so does LINUX. BSD could do it, if the developers have the resources - and think it important.

@Marco, let's be nice, and play nice. We can disagree civilly, without resorting to personal slams or attacks. That's part of the spirit of ROG. If you know how to get BSD running on some ASUS hardware, then please post a thread detailing your instructions, we'd all love to see it! :) ROG on, as @c would say.

Nodens
01-25-2014, 07:42 PM
I think you did some reserching for this post, BSD is not UNIX as said, there is no licence from AT & T UNIX since BSD4.x


I did no research for this post because simply I've done my research over the years that I am using, developing on and collecting various operating systems. I have SCO UNIX System V/386 on original floppies...



WRONG, knowledge about file systems ...

ZFS for linux is not production ready, said from two of the "important" guys from ZFS, from the openzfs programmer and a zfs guru who wrote a handbook about it.
I saw a EXT4 vs UFS server benchmarks, the freeBSD RAM filesystem is much faster than the linux one, and EXT4 is much faster than UFS, ZFS should be slower, because of the hashchecks on the CPU in the filesystem.
BtrFS is not produktion ready, openSuse (https://twitter.com/jospoortvliet) has the hands deep into it, recommand SNAPPER & BtrFS on OpenSuse13.01 !


What you post here is not knowledge about filesystems. It's random stuff with no real significance.
1) ZFS is production ready on Linux and it IS used on production Linux servers. No matter what you claim here.

2) Of the file systems you mentioned only BtrFS is not production ready. Period.

3) You completely neglected to mention XFS, which most production servers prefer over ZFS when the server has anything to do with large filesystems and uses hardware RAID, like it should. ZFS is only preferred on systems where software RAID would be used and only due to its block level CRC checks. But it is a small part of the server market. It depends on what you are actually doing with the server, like I said. These filesystems have their use ONLY on servers dealing with large amount of data. We're talking file servers/data centers etc and only when specific conditions are met.
Regardless of you being wrong about ZFS in the first place (which you are no matter how much you may insist otherwise--it is production ready and it IS used in production systems), the biggest flaw in your claims is that you're making a blanket statement about servers using a specific filesystem that has a very specific use as being the end-all feature required by all servers. This makes your argument moot int he first place.



Hmm, i guess you don't have a clue what you are talking about.


If you say so...:rolleyes:



BSD license 2 lines
GPL2 or 3 4 DIN A4 sides of lines (DIN) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size)


So the value of a license and how good it is, depends on how many lines it is. Great! That is good to know. Next time I have to deal with a license I won't call my lawyer. I will simply decide on the amount of pages. Or should I just count words? I mean in case there's a bigger font used in one than the other???

I am explaining to you the differences between the licenses and you're telling me the BSD license is better because its two lines. Now I can't help but wonder why do I bother replying to you..



it's all written i C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)) and without the C-programmer who died recently we have something else ...


I have no idea what you mean by that. You mean the toolchains are all written in C? If that's what you mean, then you're once more mistaken. They compile C/C++. GCC was firstly written in asm. Then once it became powerful enough to compile itself, parts of it were slowly converted into C. This is how the majority of compilers are made. Something you would know if you were actually a programmer.



freeBSD10 got rid of GCC wich is GPL license and some other programms witch security issues in it & GPL license
BSDNowTV#Tendresse for Ten | BSD Now 21 (http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/50277/tendresse-for-ten-bsd-now-21/)
Open BSD versus Linux - Daniel Seuffert klärt auf (deutsch) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln7jaBDqu_E&hd=1)


Like I said. They got rid of it because of "License clashing". Not because they wanted to. No one in their right mind would get rid of the GCC toolchain on a UNIX variant unless they had to.



GNUToolchain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_toolchain)
Maybe you are WRONG again ... Iam not an expert what it means for BSD ... freeBSD uses now LLVM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM) / Clang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang) by default, and they are very happy about that !

And it is faster too ...


You clearly have no idea about programming yet you are debating programming tools...
a) It is only faster if specific conditions are met. But that is the same for everything else.

b) Find me a popular open source project (apart from BSD internals) that actually has optimizations for LLVM /Clang or even that has been written with that in mind. You will find close to 0. GCC is the defacto standard. That is what everything is optimized, supported and maintained for. Also good luck having open source projects supporting or optimizing for it in the future. Unless it's something that is meant to run on BSD or that has BSD as it's primary target platform. It won't happen.



I found it, GL with your OS ^ ^


No matter what you say, BSD wont' run on the latest hardware. Even on Linux there are very few distros that support cutting edge hardware. If BSD starts supporting cutting edge hardware it could happen BUT it won't. Because it's not aimed at the desktop.



I am a Quakeplayer since 1999, and iam no fanboy of carmack (https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack) anymore, the only thing he did to our enjoyment was programming QuakeIIIArena, get your facts right.


Seriously? First you tell me that Carmack won't touch OpenGL, then you tell me RAGE/idtech5 is DX based and now you tell ME to get MY facts straight?! Right!



he did run RAGE on IOS with 60fps, but did he consider to port it to IOS & ofc linux / freeBSD ?


It does not need porting. The engine is compatible. It just needs compiling. But their publishers are not targetting these platforms so they won't launch it there. Carmack specifically said though that a Linux binary will pop up at some point so the Windows version can be run on Linux natively FYI. Also like all other id engines, idtech5 does not contain proprietary code and is scheduled to go open source at some point. So anyone will be able to do what they want with it.



NOPE, btw IOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ios)/OSX[] comming from Darwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X) wich is BSD/Unix


Entirely irrelevant.



RAGE has no Linux support, since TTimo (http://ttimo.typepad.com/blog/) left id, what a sould out company ... i left playing QL because of "Window's only" mentality of Xenimax / Bethesda


Let me correct the above for you. RAGE has no Linux version because the publishers do not care launching it on Linux. Carmack, as I said above has stated thought hat a Linux binary will show up at some point. id Software's engines all compile natively on Linux. They don't need porting or anything else.



BTW, that old openGL article from Carmack, i heard his comment on the openGL development, and since idsoft is no more alone, what do you think will happen to the support with openGL on idTech5 ...
YT QuakeCon query keynote (http://www.youtube.com/user/QuakeCon2011/search?query=keynote)
[URL]http://www.google.de/search?q=carmack+on+opengl+4
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey


a) id Software is still id Software. Nothing has changed.
b) Nothing with happen to "OpenGL support" because id Software engines ARE and WILL be based on OpenGL. Period.
c) It's not "OpenGL support". It's the graphics API the engine is coded in. It doesn't support OpenGL, it is MADE with OpenGL. You can't "remove" OpenGL from it as then you'd have no engine. Still Carmack is dedicated to OpenGL and hance so is id Softtware. You posted his twitter above. It might do you some good to actually follow him and read his tweets.



read & see = learning !

!?!?!

Nodens
01-25-2014, 07:43 PM
@Marco, I thought I should weigh in on this issue. I think we are discussing two different things, from two different workloads. BSD has certain advantages, and LINUX has certain advantages. It all depends on what you are trying to do with your system. Just like the discussion about DirectX vs OpenGL, Carmack is weighing in as a user, whose loyalty depends on the quality of each competitor. There are advantages to both systems, and depending on your background, you can lean one way or another.


Currently the only advantage DX has is it's major flaw. That is conformity. The lack of extensions makes it easy to have a uniform API. But you know the other side of that knife as well:)



@Nodens, LLVM / Clang has gotten a whole lot better in the last few years, their rate of development is actually quite impressive. There are benchmarks that indicate that it can generate "faster" code than GCC, but it depends on compiler flags and particular systems, so its not much of an advantage. As you know, hand-optimized assembly is faster still. :D


I am aware of that. But you know that there's no support for LLVM/Clang anywhere outside BSD. Code is not optimized for it, you won't even find projects with something as simple a CMAKE profile for it. And you certainly know what happens when you optimize your code for a toolchain and the next toolchain doesn't like your optimizations :)

I'm not saying LLVM/Clang is bad. I'm saying it's not supported by anything and cutting off the GCC toolchain when it's the defacto standard on these OS platforms is bad for the OS. It will have people jumping through hoops to get stuff build on BSD..




@Marco, @Nodens point about the licenses are also valid, GPL protects the open source community, and that's why it's so lengthy. BSD does not. If you prefer your work to be usable and proprietizable (<- ?new word? :cool:), the BSD license allows that. The GPL does not. However, @Nodens, there is the LGPL, which is designed to protect code that calls a GPL library, so any changes to the library itself must be released, but not the code that calls said library. In my opinion, each of these licenses has a place. LINUX, last I checked is under GPL v2, because Linus Torvaalds said that there are too many people involved in the LINUX system now that he would have to clear a change to v3 with. He decided to stick to v2 for the time being.


Yeah Zygomorphic I'm aware of LGPL of course. The Qt framework I'm using for RealBench is licensed under LGPL which allows me to code a closed source application as long as I don't statically link the libraries. LGPL is for libraries indeed and I did not mention it because I thought it was irrelevant. Marco does not even understand the differences between the classic licenses and claims the BSD license is better because it's 2 lines after I explain the difference to him...Go figure..I think mentioning the LGPL would be rather overkill..



As to BSD on the desktop, I can't judge. If more hardware drivers get written, then yes, it could be done. Apple has proved that BSD-derivatives can be used as consumer OS's, at least for limited sets of specific hardware. For the masses of other systems, we can't say at present. Windows manages it, and so does LINUX. BSD could do it, if the developers have the resources - and think it important.


Exactly. Without support for cutting edge hardware you can't talk about BSD on desktop at all. And I don't see that happening any time soon.

Marco^^
01-30-2014, 03:15 PM
I am aware of that. But you know that there's no support for LLVM/Clang anywhere outside BSD.

Good, keep it that way !



I'm not saying LLVM/Clang is bad. I'm saying it's not supported by anything and cutting off the GCC toolchain when it's the defacto standard on these OS platforms is bad for the OS. It will have people jumping through hoops to get stuff build on BSD..

openbenchmarking.org#CompilerDeathMatch(6+4+4+4)x-64bit (http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1102046-IV-AAAA3619586)

I was not intend to nuke the thread, i posted before, question answered ... all these distros and stuff are personal preferences and usage, maybe i don't enjoy playing on my system, but i have Sabayon 13.01 on DVD :cool:

Zygomorphic
01-31-2014, 11:24 AM
Good, keep it that way !



openbenchmarking.org#CompilerDeathMatch(6+4+4+4)x-64bit (http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1102046-IV-AAAA3619586)

I was not intend to nuke the thread, i posted before, question answered ... all these distros and stuff are personal preferences and usage, maybe i don't enjoy playing on my system, but i have Sabayon 13.01 on DVD :cool:

It all has to do with your workload. Some want a very particular optimized system, such as Gentoo. Others just want something that works. Me, I have VMs so that I can have everything. Base OS is one that just works. :) Actually, having competition in the toolchain could provide for some improved results, so everyone will win! :)

Nodens
01-31-2014, 10:45 PM
openbenchmarking.org#CompilerDeathMatch(6+4+4+4)x-64bit (http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1102046-IV-AAAA3619586)


The above is just a bad comparison that shows nothing really. It is just a test of compilation duration on specific hardware with specific flags and specific projects. The most important thing though is not compilation duration but how fast is the produced code (or how big for some particular case usage --eg embedded) and how the toolchain treats specific coding practices that would necessitate changes in code or preprocessor directives that modify code for said toolchain in order to avoid problems.

That said, competition doesn't necessarily work better in the FOSS world because there's no money making incentive driving people to perform better than the competition (Competition is a necessity of capitalism but FOSS does not operate on these structures..as an analogue it's closer to theoretical anarchy, in which, competition does more bad than good as instead of having everyone working together for a common goal, for the greater good (as is needed for the theoretical system to work), you have strife and wasted resources in duplicating the same work plus mediation, politics, etc).
If you have a new technology or technique in mind you can always add it to the existing project. If the project won't accept it because of different ideology/dogma then they won't adopt it even if you add it to a competing project. Imo, the only valid reason for duplicate purpose projects and forks in the FOSS world is just that, differences in ideology.

Zygomorphic
02-01-2014, 11:27 AM
The above is just a bad comparison that shows nothing really. It is just a test of compilation duration on specific hardware with specific flags and specific projects. The most important thing though is not compilation duration but how fast is the produced code (or how big for some particular case usage --eg embedded) and how the toolchain treats specific coding practices that would necessitate changes in code or preprocessor directives that modify code for said toolchain in order to avoid problems.

That said, competition doesn't necessarily work better in the FOSS world because there's no money making incentive driving people to perform better than the competition (Competition is a necessity of capitalism but FOSS does not operate on these structures..as an analogue it's closer to theoretical anarchy, in which, competition does more bad than good as instead of having everyone working together for a common goal, for the greater good (as is needed for the theoretical system to work), you have strife and wasted resources in duplicating the same work plus mediation, politics, etc).
If you have a new technology or technique in mind you can always add it to the existing project. If the project won't accept it because of different ideology/dogma then they won't adopt it even if you add it to a competing project. Imo, the only valid reason for duplicate purpose projects and forks in the FOSS world is just that, differences in ideology.
Yeah, good points. Compilation time is important, but not as the final code. We can all agree on this, I'm sure. :)

As to competition, I hadn't thought about it that way. Better to unify everything as much as possible, to provide a unified front against the likes of MS.

Arne Saknussemm
02-01-2014, 01:00 PM
Better to unify everything as much as possible, to provide a unified front against the likes of MS.

Yes, Linux in general could and should be doing so much better. It's all very well having a Happy Hippy Geeky OS but someone needs to give it some lead and direction at some point if it is going to be a successful OS. if no one is bothered then let the Peoples Front of Judea keep fighting the Judean Peoples Front...

Blanca Higgins
06-11-2014, 02:00 PM
Linux is a combination of Linus Torvalds’s Linux kernel and other programs to make it an open source operating system which was designed for personal computer users at a very low cost or even free. The heart of Linux called Linux kernel, created by Linus Torvalds when he was a student at the University of Helsinki in 1991. Linus Torvalds or Linus Benedict Torvalds, a software engineer now is the Linux kernel project’s coordinator. http://namhuy.net/3176/what-is-linux.html

Myk SilentShadow
06-11-2014, 02:54 PM
Linux is a combination of Linus Torvalds’s Linux kernel and other programs to make it an open source operating system which was designed for personal computer users at a very low cost or even free. The heart of Linux called Linux kernel, created by Linus Torvalds when he was a student at the University of Helsinki in 1991. Linus Torvalds or Linus Benedict Torvalds, a software engineer now is the Linux kernel project’s coordinator. http://namhuy.net/3176/what-is-linux.html

Yup, Linux was built around the Unix variant Minix. Torvalds' initial name for it was Phreix, an amalgamation of the words phreak and Minix...but the guy who hosted the initial build online, didn't like the name, so he suggested Linux to Linus...hopefully it's pretty clear what 2 words were used to make Linux :p