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Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 12:04 PM
So, have Ubuntu "up and running" on my RIG...like the look so far.

However! If I run stock all is great...as soon as I try to OC in the BIOS it hangs....can you OC with Linux?

Also I am trying to install Nvidia Linux driver for my Titans and this hangs too even at stock!

This OS is great right?

EDIT: I'll put stuff up in this first post that I learn as useful to a Linux Noob...just in case someone else...

Set system to F5 defaults (should really do this for any OS install for max stability)

Disable secure boot in BIOS

Swapping between windows and Linux?... keep an eye on your system time!
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?40046-Linux-time-question

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Hmm OK so this mornings adventures in Ubuntu ended in secure erase. This afternoon I have set F5 defaults in BIOS and installed Fedora....went OK but you cannot do a UEFI install of Linux...is that right? At least I cant just booted live Linux USB (non Uefi enty in BIOS) and Install went fine.

Now though the install has updated itself and the Linux that loads on reboot is Fedora with Schrodingers cat??!! has it changed the distro itself is there a dead/alive cat in the system....

Can I OC now? :confused::rolleyes::D

......

EDIT:

OK so more of the same with the Nvidia driver. I download it and try to run it and it takes 5 minutes while it thinks about it and then hangs and become non responsive. Is that the default Linux experience.

First impressions within the OS are OK but it is a bit of a pain...and not a joyful OOBE

Do I have to read the encyclopaedia of Linux before I can click on anything?

Nodens
11-30-2013, 04:23 PM
Heh hold on.

1) UEFI install of Fedora is of course possible (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Installation_Guide/ch-Boot-x86.html). EFI has been supported on linux prior than Windows due to server market using it when Intel first introduced it:)

2) Regarding the OOBE. Fedora by default installation installs the nouveau driver for nvidia. This is perfectly functional as OOBE but is very slow on 3D. They default to this driver because it's open source. So this is how you install the native nvidia driver on Fefora:

1) First add the RPMFusion repository http://rpmfusion.org/ (You want this anyhow as it will offer you stuff that can not be bundled on the Fedora repositories due to license restrictions..such as certain video/audio codecs. Once you enable the repository it is searched automatically for stuff when you try to install something).

2) http://rpmfusion.org/Howto/nVidia#x86_64_.2864bit.29_users

Note install akmod-nvidia not the kmod that's in the "or" parenthesis. The difference is that with every kernel update akmod will made sure the driver is proper. With kmod, you need to manually install a new kmod when you update the kernel.

And you'll find that Fedora docs has answers to almost every question :p


EDIT: And yes of course you can OC under Linux. But due to the faster kernel/kernel architecture you may find it's a little more sensitive to instability that Windows. You will find that Linux will freeze on boot on cases where Windows would actually boot and crash later.


EDIT2: By installing hte nvidia driver this way you never have to bother about updates to it again as well, as when Fedora will tell you there are updated packages to install it will include these as well (much like Windows Update but with the driver actually being proper and properly installed unlike installing Nvidia from WU :p)

EDIT3: (Scrap this it's only needed for F18-)I almost forgot. After installing the akmod as in the guide, you have to also do this in a terminal prior to rebooting:

su, enter (put root password) mv /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r)-nouveau.img
dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

This will backup and disable the nouveau driver in iniramfs (a ramdrive used to boot the kernel/drivers faster). After this you can forget about it.

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 05:00 PM
Hmm I don't know...with Ubuntu and Fedora I tried selecting "UEFI sony removable disk" and none of the times it booted or installed....fedora gave me an error "problem loading in kernel x.509" and "couldn't get size 0x8000000e" or something like that

If I select non UEFI sony removable it loads etc.

Thanks for the tips and help though Nodens...I really want to get some of those grungy alternative chicks so I'll stick with it....

Nodens
11-30-2013, 05:03 PM
Do you have Secure Boot on?

EDIT: Fefora in itself supports Secure Boot but two issues may arise. None of them is Fedora's control at the moment but rather Microsoft's:

1:


Third-party UEFI boot loaders (such as the Fedora boot loader) are not guaranteed to work on Microsoft Secure Boot systems because the necessary certificates are not part of the Windows 8 Hardware Certification Requirements. If your hardware is in this category, you need to switch off UEFI Secure Boot, enroll the missing Microsoft certificate, or enroll the Fedora certificate.


2:


Currently, the Fedora shim was signed in a way that gives it an expiration date of October 2013, prior to the Fedora 18 end-of-life. We are not aware of any hardware that honors this expiration date, but it's not out of the question. This is the date Microsoft gave the signature, Fedora has no control over it. We are investigating this issue and expect to resolve it in the future.


The error you're getting points to the issue 2.

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 05:21 PM
Just checked and yes I guess I do it is on Windows UEFI and there is an option "othe" below that....is that what is mucking it up?


And you'll find that Fedora docs has answers to almost every question :p

Yes, that is the encyclopedia I didn't want to read but no pain no Linux I see....

I wish some bright spark would make a game/OC friendly version ....like with all this stuff done...would go down better with the masses and with the impatient like myself...

Nodens
11-30-2013, 05:30 PM
Yeah put it on the Other OS option. And as you can see the issue has nothing to do with Fedora but with Microsoft's antics over Secure Boot heh. Just turn the damn thing off. It's been proven that it offers no real protection anyway. It justs creates issues like these.

Now regarding the encyclopedia. Well I'm pretty sure you had to look stuff up for Windows as well every now and then and probably still do :p I find the fact that there is an official "encyclopedia" in the first place refreshing compared to the alternative of googling all over the place for a guide on a forum or a blog offering a solution on how to do x and y;) Don't forget you're touching the thing for the first time. Name a piece of software that you didn't have to look something up when you used it for the first time (including Windows heh):p

EDIT: Oh and as for things like having the Nvidia driver installed as default are not possible due to legal issues. Certain stuff have very restrictive licenses. Fedora like most distros has a license that allows you to do whatever you want with it with almost no restrictions whatsoever (you could even burn a copy and sell if if you could find someone to buy it). That's where the conflict happens.
But that's also why things like RPMFusion exist so you can bypass such restrictions and do stuff in a user friendly way.

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 05:45 PM
Name a piece of software that you didn't have to look something up when you used it for the first time

Umm Angry Birds?:D

But yeah it's true, first time up so of course it's not going to be plain sailing...maybe my stumblings in Linux can be of use to others who want to try it...

Nodens
11-30-2013, 05:53 PM
Umm Angry Birds?:D


ROFL!



But yeah it's true, first time up so of course it's not going to be plain sailing...maybe my stumblings in Linux can be of use to others who want to try it...

You know this is exactly the open source/free software mentality. Users contributing to every possible next user.:)

nikosa43
11-30-2013, 06:10 PM
I admire you Arne :). This would be an adventure for real. If you have the time to spend, you will learn a lot of things. This OS needs your attention and tweaking all the time. I was willing to try also, but unfortunately, I have no time now, to go back to command line and -$ :D

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 06:23 PM
Hey Nikos! Tweaking all the time? sounds ideal for an Ocer...maybe I'll get into it. Hmm time....not so much of that but hey..I'll give it a go..

My aim...to run Metro LL on Titan SLI on Linux and hey, why not....give Microsoft the bird while I do it ; Keep them on their toes!


You know this is exactly the open source/free software mentality. Users contributing to every possible next user.:)

I do like that idea....but I can still wash and use soap right? I mean Linux isn't that alternative is it?

Nodens
11-30-2013, 06:39 PM
I do like that idea....but I can still wash and use soap right? I mean Linux isn't that alternative is it?

Considering it's being used by the majority of corporations and multinationals..no it's not! :P

EDIT: I want to see a performance comparison with Metro on both platforms hoho! That would be interesting considering Metro is probably as heavy as it gets atm!

Arne Saknussemm
11-30-2013, 06:47 PM
Hmm OK I could do that....would be interesting! Good idea :)

nikosa43
11-30-2013, 07:37 PM
lol, alternative it is, I think :). But Linux nowadays, it's not the thing it was 10-15 years ago. I think now, someone with a relatively good knowledge about computers, can use it much easier for a 24/7 than before. GUI, apps and drivers are mature enough to offer a nice experience and not an endless search nightmare to make things work. It all depend on what someone wants and needs to do.

HiVizMan
12-01-2013, 12:39 PM
Some one has time on his hands. Hivizman on steam for Borderland2 when you are ready Arne and others.

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 12:53 PM
Got to fill the idle moments with something until the next HiViz challenge....;). The Devil will find Linux for idle hands to do....

Myk SilentShadow
12-01-2013, 01:57 PM
Got to fill the idle moments with something until the next HiViz challenge....;). The Devil will find Linux for idle hands to do....

Correction, he already has! :cool: ;)

HiVizMan
12-01-2013, 02:06 PM
OK ok I will post the challenge up today. I actually completely forgot about it. Chris will be tearing his head out as he remined me about it two weeks ago.

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 02:34 PM
Really? WOOT!:D

I have spent all morning trying to get Linux to run on OCd system and can't do it. I have slowly been increasing key voltages but without a successful boot into the OS. I have reached levels of voltage to try and run my system at rated RAM value and my normal 4.6 OC that quite frankly make it not worth it..

Windows OC Offset +0.01V, VCCSA and VTT 1.075, Vdimm 1.5v rock solid for evah!

Linux OC offset +0.04v, VCCSA and VTT 1.15v, Vdimm 1,65....wont boot to OS with mouse working!
Linux will work fine at F5 defaults and I got a UEFI install etc.

Nodens
12-01-2013, 03:51 PM
You're using the RIVE system right? Not a CPU with embedded GPU, correct?

Also did you install the latest updates before trying to OC? You may be hitting a kernel bug..

But that said, the OS is not a factor in OC stability. If it's a stability issue, then it means that Windows is not really stable on those settings as well. It's just that instability doesn't get triggered while it does on Linux (same thing as passing a stability test then crashing on a game/stress test doesn't trigger condition but game does).

Still its much easier to troubleshoot the boot process than it is on Windows. When Fedora boots, hit Esc, this will switch to details view of the boot process instead of the graphical animation. See where it stops/if it gives any errors or warnings.

If it doesn't throw any errors or warnings, hit ctrl-alt-f2. It will switch you to a terminal (ctrl-alt-f1 to go pack to graphical). Login with root account details, and do a "dmesg" to see kernel messages and a "cat /var/log/messages" to see general messages. You can append " |more" to these commands to have them show you the logs page by page. One or both of these should tell you exactly what's wrong. There will be at least one descriptive error or warning there.

One last thing to have in mind is that Linux adheres strictly to standards. Which means that it's more sensitive to firmware bugs (these last 4xxx UEFI versions are not the most bugfree stable ones/ if you're using one of them heh). It will sometimes refuse to do things when it detects a firmware issue in order to protect data. Everything can be bypassed though (unless it's something very very serious).


EDIT: You see there's a vastly different mentality in OS design. Linux will refuse to boot when it has the slightest hint that something serious may be wrong. It will give you detailed info in logs so you can find out what's wrong and fix it (or choose to bypass it yourself). It puts data integrity above everything else.

Windows on the other hand has a priority on "looking nice". It will try to boot if something is wrong no matter what and will crash hard while doing so. Giving you zero information about it other than a stop error (BSOD) which needs technical knowledge to read under a debugger. If the issue is serious, it will eat your data in the process as well. :p
You'll very rarely hear about corrupted data stories on Linux and that's because of that different approach. Most data corruption issues on Linux have to do with failing disk drives..

kkn
12-01-2013, 05:10 PM
Some one has time on his hands. Hivizman on steam for Borderland2 when you are ready Arne and others.

no F4? you whit all those keys? :P

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 05:16 PM
Yes it's the RIVE system. On BIOS 3504. and updated prior to OCing. But I find it hard to believe Windows is wobbling along like a unicyclist about to fall over all the time. I have not had a crash ever at my 4.6 OC from anything. But if that's what you reckon is indeed happening I'd have to say good on Windows! If it is wobbling along it does it with style and I can't imagine Windows at 4.6GHz is slower than Linux at 3.8GHz.

So I guess I'll try another drive...another BIOS etc. and keep looking for a stable OC though it seems I can't run my RAM at spec 2133.

I suppose having your definition of instability really rigid is what you need for secure data and absolute stability so great for Linux on that front but if it ever wants to be a gaming/OCing platform it's going to have to relax it's standards a bit.

Maybe it's just my RIG? I'd be interested to hear other peoples experiences with Linux and OCing...

EDIT:

OK so I'm 85% of the way to figuring out what's going on....I am currently OC'd to 4.6GHz running 2133 RAM and guess what? at offset +0.01 and blah blah all voltages as they should be....what's different? well I set XMP instead of manual in AI Overclock Tuner so all the entries for timings are the the ones XMP set (although when I did this manually they were exactly the same).

I say 85% because at the moment all Digi+ settings are on AUTO...I will try changing stuff and see what's going on. There must be some settings in BIOS that Linux doesn't like not necessarily voltages and frequencies per se....

Nodens
12-01-2013, 07:02 PM
Instead of doing all that, check the logs. With Linux guesswork and trying random stuff is not needed. The logs will tell you what's wrong. I have no problem OCing on Linux at all. Even my server is overclocked. So it's definitely something on your setup that's triggering it. I personally doubt it has to do with stability in itself (since it's a big difference in settings). When I said that Linux may catch instabilities that Windows won't, I'm talking in general. Not your case with 0.03 VCore, 0.075 VCCSA/VTT and 0.15VDIMM difference. Pretty sure it's not stability that's causing this.

For example, latest UEFI versions for the RIVE mention fixing issues with USB devices. It could be that linux is detecting such an issue when you overclock and thus preventing your mouse from functioning by not loading the usb kernel drivers.

Conformity to standards has nothing to do with stability. It has to do with firmware issues and hardware support. Say something is wrong with ACPI tables in a UEFI version. Linux will complain, Windows you won't even know about it. Is it dangerous to not even know about it in Windows? It depends on the issue. Thing is Linux wants the user aware and taking responsibility for the action instead of striding along like nothing is wrong (under carpet approach). Due to this reason (Windows hiding stuff under the carpet) many BIOS/UEFI issues are never fixed.
For example my Linux server is running a P7P55 LX board. As long as I enable VT-d in the BIOS I get an error message in dmesg telling me that the BIOS is buggy (DMAR issue) and IOMMU is not working properly. If I load a Xen kernel to use virtual machines with VT-d on, it won't work. But I know exactly what's wrong (And there's no later BIOS version for that board that fixes the issue heh). When I load Windows on the same board with VT-d on I have absolutely no idea that VT-d is buggy in firmware.

Nodens
12-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Ok do this in a terminal window "dmesg >~/dmesg.log" and then "cat /var/log/messages >~/messages.log" and send me those 2 logs (they will be in your user home directory- "~" is a variable that automatically gets translated to user home directory in the shell). I'll tell ya what's wrong :p

EDIT: Mental note, always refresh the tab before posting:p

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 07:15 PM
Sheesh sorry Nodens....run out of playtime today LOL I'll have to take a rain check but I'll do that for sure...this is more fun than I expected....

I just had time to set my Digi+ settings to my normal setup and bang no boot...

"Having gathered these facts, Watson, I smoked several pipes over them, trying to separate those which were crucial from others which were merely incidental." Sherlock Holmes

Time for a pipe....:D

Nodens
12-01-2013, 07:26 PM
No worries, mate. Whenever you're up to it:)

Glad you're having fun though , even as you run into issues! We'll get that hat stable on the head and see how fast Metro runs!

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 07:32 PM
Yeah sorry, had to get back to my normal windows install because Farcry 3 just went from 50% off to 75% off on steam and I couldn't resist adding that :D

And got to eat .... man cannot live on Linux alone.

But thanks for all the help my friend!


Some one has time on his hands. Hivizman on steam for Borderland2 when you are ready Arne and others.

Yes, this has to happen!


no F4? you whit all those keys? :P

kkn I don't know what F4 does in windows or Linux so you're ahead of me there :)

Nodens
12-01-2013, 08:09 PM
I think he meant BF4 instead of Borderlands 2 and thought he was implying Viz is sitting on a lot of BF4 keys :p Still I'd take BL2 instead of BF4 anyday (hate the BF series hehe).

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 08:13 PM
Oh I see LOL :o

BL1+2 great fun!

Nodens
12-01-2013, 08:18 PM
I got both, they're great! BL1 I still have an unfinished DLC and BL2 unfortunately I've only played for like an hour. Need to find some time to play that..

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 08:23 PM
Need to find some time to play that..

All in good time....finish RB 3.0 first eh? :D

Nodens
12-01-2013, 08:30 PM
Lol RB 2.0 is not even out of beta yet..I think I'll find some time to play BL2 much prior to RB 3.0. Otherwise I'll be a very sad panda!

Arne Saknussemm
12-01-2013, 08:45 PM
Haha true you've earned it...

kkn
12-02-2013, 01:31 PM
I think he meant BF4 instead of Borderlands 2 and thought he was implying Viz is sitting on a lot of BF4 keys :p Still I'd take BL2 instead of BF4 anyday (hate the BF series hehe).
oy dont dizz my preshus bf4 :(
then i will dizz BL1+2
and it was bf4 arne and since i was on my phone i do pro typos.

Nodens
12-02-2013, 02:22 PM
Hehe. No worries kkn! BF4, is not a bad game. It's just me not liking the BF series much (personal taste):)

chrsplmr
12-02-2013, 03:30 PM
OK ok I will post the challenge up today. I actually completely forgot about it. Chris will be tearing his head out as he remined me about it two weeks ago.

I am completely bald and still no sign of it .. lol ... are ya wait'n for Snow ?? Nodens is 'almost' out of Beta .. I figured, then ...
~taps foot patiently~scratches bald head~shrugs ~~~

kkn
12-02-2013, 04:04 PM
I am completely bald and still no sign of it .. lol ... are ya wait'n for Snow ?? Nodens is 'almost' out of Beta .. I figured, then ...
~taps foot patiently~scratches bald head~shrugs ~~~
~polishes C's bald head~

Arne Saknussemm
12-02-2013, 06:21 PM
i do pro typos.

lol

SlackROG
12-24-2013, 02:15 AM
Arne Saknussemm I've been brushing through the posts and I didn't see it mentioned, or I missed it.

Have you done any stress tests on your hardware? It almost sounds like you could have some hardware issues, but until you do some stress tests no way to know for sure.

Also Linux/Unix aren't as forgiving to hardware as Windows is, meaning you could have a faulty GPU, CPU or Ram and even game in Windows and not notice it, but in Linux/Unix it's going to be a lot harder to get away with it.

In all the years I've used Linux I've never once had a problem installiing and running Linux, so there's something possibly going on with your hardware, or Tux just doesn't like you, hehe... :)

So if you haven't stress tested do some 12hr-24hr stress tests with like Prime95 or OCCT;

http://www.ocbase.com/
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/ (You don't need to create an account just download and install)


Cheers

Nodens
12-24-2013, 02:49 AM
SlackROG, Arne is a very experienced overclocker. He knows all that:)

Arne Saknussemm
12-24-2013, 07:09 AM
Well, o harm for a reminder but yeah I think the system is pretty much OK.....I have the Linux project on hold for now since the comp started but I will be back to it for sure....

SlackROG
12-24-2013, 08:04 AM
SlackROG, Arne is a very experienced overclocker. He knows all that:)

Ok I just didn't read any mention of stress testing...



Well, o harm for a reminder but yeah I think the system is pretty much OK.....I have the Linux project on hold for now since the comp started but I will be back to it for sure....

Well I am the new kid in town so I don't know your experience level, but regardless of experience it's always best to tell people what you've done, and even with those L33T Skills us Geeks do get forgetful at times... LOL :)

Cheers