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View Full Version : Thinking about buying a G750JM, some quick questions!



Scionyde
05-18-2014, 08:36 PM
I'm still doing my research, but I'm definitely leaning toward the G750JM (the one that comes with 12 GB RAM and the 860M 2 GB). If anybody could answer my questions, that would be great!

1. The JM comes with 3x 4GB RAM, but it has the potential 4 RAM slots, correct? I know two of the RAM slots are easily accessible by removing the plate at the bottom of the laptop(the other two slots require near-disassembly of the laptop) - are these two easy-accessible slots the ones that are populated first?

2. What is the CAS latency on the RAM that comes with the JM?

3. I'm aware the laptop exhausts hot air through the rear vents, but where is the intake? I though read somewhere that it also intakes from the back vents, is this true? Does this make having a cooling pad a little useless with this laptop?

4. Asus only covers bright dots instead of dark, dead pixels in its 'Zero Bright Dot' policy, right? But I know they also have a 15 day return policy, so theoretically, one could return the laptop for dark pixels within that 15 day window, right? Also, this is kind of a stupid side question, but what is the original ship date? Is it the date when it leaves the vendor's facility, or the date I receive it? (I want to know whether it's 15 days minus whenever they send it out.)

5. The 860M 2GB that comes with the JM is Maxwell architecture, right? (laptops from other people that may come with 4GB VRAM are Kepler?)

6. I've noticed that to get at the fans for potential cleaning, one nearly has to disassemble the laptop. How do you guys usually go about cleaning your fans with compressed air?

theclaw37
05-18-2014, 10:22 PM
1. No. My laptop has a single 8GB RAM stick that is mounted on the internal slots. My outer 2 slots are empty (as is 1 internal one).
3. The intake is underneath the laptop. I see no other vents.
5. It's Maxwell.

L.E: My g750js has CAS 11. They're probably the same chips.

Scionyde
05-19-2014, 01:23 AM
1. No. My laptop has a single 8GB RAM stick that is mounted on the internal slots. My outer 2 slots are empty (as is 1 internal one).
3. The intake is underneath the laptop. I see no other vents.
5. It's Maxwell.

L.E: My g750js has CAS 11. They're probably the same chips.

Thanks for the response! Glad for the info about the RAM. :)

Yeah, normally I'd guess the intakes are on the bottom, but looking at videos about removing the bottom plate, the grills seem to be mostly below the storage drives/RAM, and I had trouble seeing how sufficient airflow could pass through there to the fans. I dunno. Either way, I've heard really good things about the thermals of the G750 series, so however they're doing it is working, I suppose...

hmscott
05-19-2014, 02:01 AM
Scionyde, if I were you I would give serious consideration to getting the previous generation of G750, instead of one of the new models.

The JX/JW/JH all perform close enough to the new G750 models so as to not make any real difference in day to day gaming - and not much difference in benchmarks either.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-800m-graphics-performance,3800-8.html

In fact, since you can Overclock the GTX card in the JX/JW/JH better/further than the JM/JS/JZ I would go so far as to say you can match and exceed the performance of the new G750's with the previous generation, depending on variance between samples of each GPU - some OC better / worse than others.

Asus GPU Tweak for Laptops vs Asus GPU Tweak for Graphics Cards
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?45644-Asus-GPU-Tweak-for-Laptops-vs-Asus-GPU-Tweak-for-Graphics-Cards&p=387929&viewfull=1#post387929

The real killer with the new G750's is that the Intel GPU has been enabled, and the default is to use the Intel GPU unless you force an app to use the Nvidia GPU, which ends up being a series of potentially frustrating discoveries for each and every app to get the best performance, instead of just working.

Backward compatibility of games and Optimus which won't recognize the Nvidia GPU and may not work without tweaking using a 3rd party program - Nvidia Inspector - whose development website has disappeared!

http://blog.orbmu2k.de/tools/nvidia-inspector-tool

You can still get Nvidia Inspector here:
http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/nvidia_inspector_download.html

You have to set the Nvidia card preferred globally, then set it again in the Program Settings for each app, then use Nvidia Inspector Tweak tool to tune a number of obscure settings for older apps (and new apps) to get them to work with the Nvidia GPU and get the best performance.

There are hundreds of Youtube videos on Optimus, about how to get this all to work, and get decent non-lagging performance.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqDY4oi1Ov4HYsjsmsOVLzg

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=optimus+nvidia+inspector

All of this to get some battery savings by using the Intel GPU instead of the Nvidia GPU on battery. I don't know about you, but I didn't get my G750JH to run games on battery :)

All that had to be done was to simply set the Intel GPU on for Battery and set the Nvidia GPU on for AC power. Instead there is this complex not always-working series of settings that you need to be aware of to get the performance you expect.

And, all video now has to go through the Intel GPU (CPU), whether the rendering is done in the Intel GPU or Nvidia GPU, the Intel GPU, the slowest least powerful link, is now the limiting factor.

You can't set the refresh rate, or custom resolution settings in the Nvidia control panel any more, because everything goes through the Intel GPU - which is set to 60hz maximum.

With Optimus you can't do 120hz 3D through the Intel GPU, so neither can the Nvidia 120hz 3D support be used - go to timecode 1:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ3IRvCkllg&noredirect=1

Apparently the HDMI audio doesn't work correctly out of the box, and requires tweaking installer updates, otherwise you only get video and no audio out the HDMI port. No word yet on Display Port function.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?47385-G750JS-(and-possibly-other-models-too)-HDMI-audio-out-issue&p=402228&viewfull=1#post402228

External Monitor calibration is unstable due to Optimus:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?47256-G750JZ-External-Display-Color-Calibration-Problem&p=401180&viewfull=1#post401180

And, with the addition of the enabled GPU on the CPU, all the new G750 CPU's are running hotter. In fact some are so bad they are being returned to get another one that might run cooler - but they all run hotter.

Even switching all apps to use the Nvidia GPU only helps the CPU heat a little, as the Intel GPU still handles all the video / audio output - which raises the temperature of the CPU.

Of course, it is no better on any other Optimus enabled laptop, but the G750JW/JX/JH's don't have Optimus :)

So, I would recommend getting a JW, JX, or a JH if you can find one, before everyone figures out that Optimus in the G750JM/JS/JZ is such a hot mess, and buy up the remaining inventory of the JW/JX/JH's :)

erix_jansen@hotmail.com
05-19-2014, 07:33 AM
Thanks that was a nice sum-up! Happy JX owner here!

HomieOC
05-19-2014, 08:19 AM
hmscott.... so i enabled high performance... nvidia in nvdia control panel and disabled the intel gpu.. even though its disabled, the intel GPU is still being used to process the audio??? my cpu idles at 42 C

I Have the g750jza lol

hmscott
05-19-2014, 08:27 AM
hmscott.... so i enabled high performance... nvidia in nvdia control panel and disabled the intel gpu.. even though its disabled, the intel GPU is still being used to process the audio??? my cpu idles at 42 C

I Have the g750jza lol

HomieOC, yes, the Nvidia GPU is doing the rendering, but the video and audio output go through and are controlled by the Intel IGPU hardware on the CPU and Intel drivers and Intel control panel and HD Audio.

A better solution would have been to use a discrete controller for HD Video and Audio in front of both of the Intel / Nvida GPU's, or run the Audio/Video through the Nvidia GPU controller section, but instead it all goes through the weakest component, the Intel IGPU which shares die space on the CPU, which raises the power usage of the CPU, which raises the heat output of the CPU overall.

Instead of only putting the Copper into the Nvidia GPU cooling system, it looks like the Intel CPU cooling system should have been beefed up with Copper too :)

http://rog.asus.com/307502014/g-series-gaming-laptops/new-g750jz-g750jm-and-g750js-gaming-laptops-launched-with-nvidia-gtx-880m-870m-860m-and-turbomaster-overclocking/

Scionyde
05-19-2014, 02:34 PM
Thanks for the great response, hmscott, you've certainly given me a lot to think about. :)

I have seen those Tom's Hardware benchmarks before, and while the synthetics are pretty similar, there does seem to be a real-world difference in games performance between the 800-series and 700-series. (Admittedly, the last generation of ROG laptops have dropped in price a little, so they're probably still competitive from a price/performance standpoint). Also, I think the 860M they used in that review was Kepler, and Maxwell has a (small) performance over it.

I would imagine the 700 series has a bit more headroom to overclock compared to the 800 series(Kepler ones, at least) because the 870M and 880M are just rebadged Kepler with increased clock speeds, right? Anyway, the one I was considering was the Maxwell 860M, which should theoretically run a bit cooler and have a bit more headroom to overclock (I think). Regardless, overclocking wasn't necessarily something I was planning to do (but I'm not ruling it out). My current laptop is an Alienware m14x r2 which runs pretty hot and noisy, so my knee-jerk reaction is to not want to mess with it, haha.

Those external monitor problems do seem a bit troubling, and I might do some more asking around to see if those issues are prevalent among other owners. (Thanks for the heads up!) However, I plan to use the laptop for when I stay in a hotel while traveling for work, or visiting family; I don't have any plans at this time to use external monitors.

I also appreciate you bringing up Nvidia Optimus, that seems even more troubling. I actually have it enabled on my Alienware laptop, but I never did fully check to see which GPU was doing all the work during games. Because of the weakness of the GT 650M and the loud/hot nature of the laptop, I was always inclined to run everything on low settings, regardless...

Do you happen to know if these Nvidia Optimus issues have been present in all brands implementing it, or does Asus tend to have more problems with it? Either way, I'll have to look into it more...

Thanks again for the reply :)

hmscott
05-19-2014, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the great response, hmscott, you've certainly given me a lot to think about. :)
...Do you happen to know if these Nvidia Optimus issues have been present in all brands implementing it, or does Asus tend to have more problems with it? Either way, I'll have to look into it more...Thanks again for the reply :)

Scionyde, you caught me right in the path of making my own decisions for changing my JH for a JZ, so I am running all those questions through my head right now too.

I don't think the Asus Optimus implementation is any better or worse, it is really a matter of the Intel hardware implementation of Optimus. As you see by watching the Youtube Optimus videos, or reading about Optimus problems, this has been going on for a few years and I can't say it is getting much better.

I was very happy when Asus implemented the discrete Nvidia GPU and neutered Optimus in the G750JW/JX/JH, it was a big plus for Asus - now that they have jumped into the deep end of Optimus with most everyone else - it is one less differentiating factor in choosing Asus - more than that it brings back all the crap you have to deal with when dealing with an Optimus laptop - it sucks :)

If a vendor releases a 3D 120hz panel 17"/18" configuration that disables Optimus, that is what I will be interested in over any Optimus configuration.

I guess we can hope Intel will beef up the onboard GPU to provide better bandwidth, higher resolutions, and higher refresh rates, but I also hope Nvidia/ATI step up and provide a hybrid battery/AC design that takes on the whole range of function away from Intel's solution.

There are just too many annoyances with trying to get the best performance out of Optimus, some things will be easy, some not so easy, and some will only use the Intel GPU - wasting 30-50% of the value of my high end GTX bearing laptop.

The JW/JX/JH will have a big leg up over any Optimus laptop for you, since you already run your Optimus laptop as if you didn't have to pay attention to Optimus configuration for the best performance. With the JW/JX/JH you really can ignore it, cause it won't exist, and you will always be getting the best video performance.

The kind of OC available for the G750 laptops is easy, and doesn't push any dangerous limits.

Intel XTU really only extends the CPU core multipliers to full specification - it reduces them by default likely because most implementations won't have as good of cooling as the Asus G750 - you can safely run at 36x/35x/34x/34x with 36x cache on the G750.

And, Asus GPU Tweak tool lets you extend the GPU clock to a vBIOS limited maximum of +132mhz, which is a big win for performance. None of the OC'ers have ever complained about not being able to make it to 932mhz from 797mhz, and the memory OC from 5000mhz to 6250mhz is common. Both give a great FPS boost.

Let us know what you end up getting, and how it works out for you :)

Hegemon
05-19-2014, 04:29 PM
Guys,

probably a stupid question but what would happen if I just disable the Intel GPU driver from loading on start-up in msconfig or similar?

There will be no Intel GPU on the menu any more :)

G750JS here running on win 7

hmscott
05-20-2014, 12:20 AM
Guys,

probably a stupid question but what would happen if I just disable the Intel GPU driver from loading on start-up in msconfig or similar?

There will be no Intel GPU on the menu any more :)

G750JS here running on win 7

Hegemon, you can always give it a try to verify, but the Optimus enabled G750's are wired differently than the G750's without Optimus, it is a hardware difference that can't be fixed with software reconfiguration. The situation can be improved, perhaps, with improved Intel / Nvidia drivers and control, but the built in hardware difference remains.

Scionyde
05-21-2014, 11:31 AM
Scionyde, you caught me right in the path of making my own decisions for changing my JH for a JZ, so I am running all those questions through my head right now too.

*snip*

Let us know what you end up getting, and how it works out for you :)

Heh, yeah, it seems like the G750 series has some of the best cooling available in a laptop, so I suppose it lends itself well to overclocking. Speaking of which, since you already own one of these laptops, perhaps you could clear something up for me about the airflow. Having the air intake on the bottom is what's most commonly done and would seem to make sense, but after watching some videos of people removing the bottom plate, it seems the grill is primarily over the storage drives and RAM to allow them to breathe a little. I have trouble seeing how sufficient airflow reaches the fans that way.

I've seen one person claim the intakes are on the back, as part of the rear vents. Looking at a picture of the G750 from the rear, it seems like there is a 'top' and 'bottom' vent on both the left and right vents. I suppose that's possible, but I've never seen a design quite like that.

Any idea? :)

hmscott
05-21-2014, 11:57 AM
Heh, yeah, it seems like the G750 series has some of the best cooling available in a laptop, so I suppose it lends itself well to overclocking. Speaking of which, since you already own one of these laptops, perhaps you could clear something up for me about the airflow. Having the air intake on the bottom is what's most commonly done and would seem to make sense, but after watching some videos of people removing the bottom plate, it seems the grill is primarily over the storage drives and RAM to allow them to breathe a little. I have trouble seeing how sufficient airflow reaches the fans that way.
I've seen one person claim the intakes are on the back, as part of the rear vents. Looking at a picture of the G750 from the rear, it seems like there is a 'top' and 'bottom' vent on both the left and right vents. I suppose that's possible, but I've never seen a design quite like that.Any idea? :)

Scionyde, someone a while back did a smoke test, to see where the draw points were located, and they are indeed the bottom vents. The keyboard is a sealed design, and the rear grills on top are actually the speaker vents.

Here are some nice interior shots of the G750:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/726296-asus-g750-disassembly.html

That is why I recommend removing hot HD's from the drive bay's, and either leave them empty or put in an SSD drive.

That is also why you want to have something under the laptop to provide some lift up from soft surfaces like couches, beds, etc. A simple plank of wood, or a nice coffee table book work nicely.