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View Full Version : Why i feel betrayed by my g750jz. And why i hate optimus.



broadleaf
09-13-2014, 11:26 AM
Maybe this way will force them to do anything to solve this bug they call "Optimus" and return the missing BIOS
option to disable it (WHICH IS THERE, YOU CAN SEE IT IN BIOS EDITOR, BUT IT IS HIDDEN).
What are your thoughts guys?
Also when they say "its impossible because of (insert canned nonsense)" don't believe.
It is possible, and some people with enough experience in bios modding succeeded in
doing so and use only Nvidia.

Im really tired of being lied to and using intentionally crippled piece of machinery that costs 3k$,
because of whatever their lucrative reasons behind this decision are.
What are the options to make them move? I understand that for them we are nothing but
insects and our requests or suffering are just a minor annoyance, but MAYBE someone here
that knows how to get to them can help.

broadleaf
09-13-2014, 12:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/BQNP0iG.png

How do you like this?
That is official NVIDIA statement - Optimus IS DESIGNED by Asus, there is nowhere to run ASUS.
You are to blame for this BUG.

Myk SilentShadow
09-13-2014, 02:16 PM
I dunno who you were talking to in the scheme of things, but Optimus is not designed by ASUS, it's an Nvidia technology.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/optimus_technology.html

broadleaf
09-13-2014, 02:59 PM
The tech itself yes, but on other laptops you can disable it, which means that the WAY its assembled with the rest of the hardware, the DESIGN of all components and how they interact is done by ASUS, that's what hes talking about.

pokerface
09-13-2014, 03:00 PM
It is possible, on my Alienware 18 you press FN + F5 then the laptop reboots and switch from the integrated graphics to the dedicated GPU and it's locked like that forever until you hit FN + F5 again

broadleaf
09-13-2014, 09:33 PM
I should have bought alienware

broadleaf
09-13-2014, 10:37 PM
I know it is frustrating, but to vent here in a user supported forum does little to change anything
what does then? Any actual way to do anything?
If g750 is WIRED as you say, how come people say they hacked the bios and it works for them?
Explain the above. Also haven't checked links you provide, sufficient was just to SAY what you want
without showing off in each post. And yeah as of now i feel that i get crippled 3k hardware so im going to
vent my rage on OFFICIAL forums be it user supported or not, it's none of my concern, if at ASUS people
don't have the decency to come down and actually have conversation with their customers its again not my
problem.

broadleaf
09-13-2014, 10:48 PM
I do understand what you mean, but i feel so powerless against this cold corporation with their indifference that i have
nothing else but to fight windmills.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 06:51 AM
Hi guys. Im a professional 3d artist/designer and recently im a gamedeveloper.

Here are some of the problems i encountered with this laptop so far, which make my life miserable.
My main problem is that due to some circumstances im stuck with it, for maybe couple of months ahead for sure.

Why dont i start from the very beginning?

* Bought it, in retail everything looks fine. Brought home - 'W' key falls off. Just like that you press its lower part, it fells off.
No visible damage, if you press it normally you cant tell defect (just works) but once pressed lower part it jumps right off.
Bring it back to vendor - "Sorry its your fault, you broke that" in know i did not.
They want to scam me? Fat chance. Call police, lawyer, customer protection etc.
Next day they begging me to not drag them in court. Okay i don't care just give me working laptop.
Exchanged took money from them for travel time and travel expenses.

* Screen is crap, vertical lines, tho colors and response time are good, ignore that i wont look at that screen so much.

* Start mirgating my software etc, new to windows 8.
Suddenly my life becomes a miserable hunt for hacks to disable all MS horse poop and removing tons of bloatware
carefully provided by ASUS. Hacks to disable charms. To kill Edge UI, to kill Skydrive, to this to that etc.

* Dinamic brightness cant be turn off, but whatever.

* Realise i can't switch completely to Nvidia GPU.
MFW http://i.imgur.com/KBNcZ.gif

After 2 months of suffering with all my pro software that you have to manually tweak to work properly disregarding all
optimus attempts to flip me over.
Something happens, that overrides all my registry hacks for windows, rendering months of careful tinkering flush in vain.
http://i.imgur.com/Q93TOT0.gif

Install windows 7.

Realise that windows 8.1 has better performance with optimus.

Hack explorer.exe and dwm.exe to wrok on gpu.
Doesnt change much still pathetic HD4600 is responsible for rendering windows interface which leads to numerous issues
while Aero is off Photoshop cant recognize my GPU no matter what.
While Aero is on Unity 3d drops performance 2 times.
Performance in games is somewhat better sometimes.

i have 3 screens.
In windows 8.1 multiscreen has better performance. Sad to see this
http://i.imgur.com/H2wtumQ.png
with 3 screens and
http://i.imgur.com/aTgmLME.png
with one.

Realize that spitting on my settings for desktop rendering Optimus(tm Pest Technologies) still uses intel for rendering
windows. Everything feels sluggish and response time is bad with Aero on.

Have problems with Unity3d 4.6rc18 completely not being able to recognize nvgpu disregarding anything,
which it should not, because its beta, but would not happen if i wasn't locked on that pathetic intel chip.

No fan control for gpu whatsoever.

Crippled nvidia 880m not working on 100% official nvidia responce is silence check this thread
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/754922/geforce-mobile-gpus/nvidia-crippling-the-gtx-880ms-with-there-new-drivers-look-for-a-nvidia-response-/

12 pages of people ranging from professional OC's to casuals. Ofc silence like here, because why even bother - they already bought it.

For those 2 months i own it, ive seen only one official response on forums when someone accidentally insulted Asus member and they transitioned from ignore mode, to rage induced SHUTUPORIKILLYOU type of behavior. Which leads to conclusion that they do read this but will act like they don't.

So far optimus caused more nerves, stress and hatred than any other piece of hardware equipment i ever had, ever. Ever.
In my opinion this is the worst decision that was made with this laptop which otherwise (disregarding cheap screen and other minor issues) is good.

And the official silence on the issue is just destroying my trust in this company every day more and more.

Ok i can get that you FAILED miserably by propagating GPU outputs into intel buffer and then it goes to screen.

BUT EXPLAIN TO MY WHY THE HELL IS WINDOWS RENDERED BY THIS PATHETIC PIECE OF JUNK?
Why cant nvidia gpu render EVERYTHING and then just output it to screen through that buffer?
Why?
WHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

Because it will cost more than neural cells of couple of suffering customers? Because you.. can't? Don't want to?
Too hard? Requires admitting you have done something wrong? Even hmscott which tries hard to defend ASUS
agrees that it is WORST decision. Whats gonna happen? Silence. No solution what so ever.

Conclusion is just really, if you are working with 3d/2d gamedev, cg, compositing etc, and you seek for a serious machine
that can carry any load... SADLY THIS IS NOT IT, THANKS TO ASUS INCREDIBLE DESIGN DECISION.
Everything is fine, just everything, but being locked on Intel Chip causes so much compatibility issues with pro software
that you will find yourself in endless hell of seeking solutions to problems that are caused by this, on daily basis problems occur.
This doesnt work right, that throws some exceptions, this lags, that just stupidly refuses to work etc etc etc..

PS. i will contact ASUS support and just copy paste this wall of text to them, see what they will respond.

In mean time all asus forum member which are reading this are free to maintain silent mockery, and imply problem does not exist and im just mad for no reason.

Andili
09-15-2014, 08:04 AM
Ok I wont buy the G750jz, was looking to buy it to replace my G75......

gazzacbr
09-15-2014, 09:57 AM
G750JX, shiny screen 120Hz, no optimess (ever), clean install = zero problems.
oh, and fully functional 'W' key.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 12:55 PM
hmscott i just want them to release working solution that fixes Optimus bug.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 01:57 PM
ok i see. ill sell it in some time. will cut 300 from init will make some GAMER happy.
I dont understand these companies. They know they produce junk, yet they do it.


Neither have the cries of thousands of vocal users made any difference.
Never again. I don't support companies that ignore their customers.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 02:41 PM
I suddely realized... Thats a marketing move. They deliberately separate 2 lines of products to sell quadro line better.
This is so low.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 02:46 PM
sent them email

Hello i want my system to be fully working from NVidia GPU without use of Intel chip to render anything.

Proceed to this thread to fully read what issues i encounter with your bugged Optimus and what awful experience i have with your flawed product.
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?51606-Why-i-feel-betrayed-by-my-g750jz.-And-why-i-hate-optimus.&country=&status=

I want you to make viable solution that renders everything with Nvidia GPU, and only then puts that 1 image into buffer which is outputted into screen.
Are you able to do such simple thing?

I can say on behalf of all users of ASUS g750jz, - we need you to fix this. This is making our experience with your product miserable.

broadleaf
09-15-2014, 06:18 PM
Yeah got confused those.
Btw hmscott dunno if you know but a little story of quadro series.
Back in the day when they just came out they were giving better performance in 3d apps.
Sure, thats what they were for, right?
Thats why the cost was around 3k and more.
It worked like that - you have quadro, and a driver = more performance.
Suddenly people hacked driver to work with Geforce 9800.
Suddenly you get same EXACT performance from 9800 for 300 as you get from quadro for 3000.
It was proven that quadro and geforce are exact same component and only actual difference was the
driver that detected which one you had and if quadro it switched to high performance mode.
I wont even go into any conclusions. Just lies are tiresome man.

Praz
09-15-2014, 07:08 PM
Hello

All posts have been moved into this thread. No need for multiple threads for the same topic.

broadleaf
09-16-2014, 04:46 AM
So you're saying that Nvidia was developing a Software and to make people pay for it the developed a whole new GPU branch?
If you're developing software you are charging for software. You don't develop a whole new car to sell your new tires, and then make
the car mandatory. They are just making more money, that's it. Its a pure marketing manipulation, along with programmable obsolescence.

broadleaf
09-16-2014, 04:47 AM
Hello

All posts have been moved into this thread. No need for multiple threads for the same topic.

Hello return my thread to state it was before and never touch it again.
If you want to change anything do that without destroying others people work.

broadleaf
09-16-2014, 01:52 PM
@hmscott refrain from addressing to me any further.

Praz
09-16-2014, 02:46 PM
Hello return my thread to state it was before and never touch it again.
If you want to change anything do that without destroying others people work.

Hello

The thread will remain as it is. If the laptop does not suit your needs sell it it and purchase one that does meet your expectations. This is what other consumers would do with any type product.

Svift
09-30-2014, 05:46 AM
Hello

The thread will remain as it is. If the laptop does not suit your needs sell it it and purchase one that does meet your expectations. This is what other consumers would do with any type product.

PRAZ thats NOT a responze I would expect from super mod... geeez.

Hey broadleaf
I owned G73, 53, 74, MSIGT70 (yee G75 was 1year late in Czech Rep.) and now G750. Laptops by build and support and rog.forum ASUS is currently best I encoutered... stick with it.


To optimus problem I might have a way for you.

As former MSI GT70-2oc owner, MSI had simple option to set nvidia GPU as primary for everything. It was done wia nvidia controll panel. Just as that - booom done. The power ligt turned orange (signalization on MSI notebooks that discreete GPU is used) never had a problem. My new ASUS G750JZ have the same setting in 3D control in nvidia control pannel.

From my own research i did some time ago. Asus and or MSI (and every other manufacturer) is bondet to use providet technology and even as manufacturer is very limited to customize it. Otherwise nvidia and interl might refuse to RMA. Tha´s sad state of things, It not ASUS fault. Asus and Gigabyte are known to rebel against intel with CPU oc. and nvidia for GPU limits... Bud manufacturer just updates Microcode and .... you get it right? :(

As a AutoCAD and Maya user a heavily dislike Intel integrated crap. Bud the setting it to use HiSpeed Nvidia in 3D settings in nvidia controll pannel worked for me just fine... Battery life is on 1/3.

kaltoreth
10-03-2014, 05:44 PM
I also -HATE- not beeing able to disable optimus / Intel HD4600 and only run on nvidia card.

I didnt buy this computer to run on battery and game :)

I just got my Oculus Rift, and due to optimus beeing a dicktard its making it impossible to do certain things


Death to Optimus!
Or atlest the not beeing able to shut the crap down.

hmscott
10-03-2014, 08:46 PM
I also -HATE- not beeing able to disable optimus / Intel HD4600 and only run on nvidia card.
I didnt buy this computer to run on battery and game :)
I just got my Oculus Rift, and due to optimus beeing a dicktard its making it impossible to do certain things
Death to Optimus!
Or atlest the not beeing able to shut the crap down.

kaltoreth, that is the real disaster of Optimus, not just that it raises CPU temps 10c, not that Windows and Windows tools are stuck using the Intel GPU even after setting the Global settings in the Nvidia Control panel, not that Optimus isn't recognized by so many applications/games, not that Optimus can't be tricked into presenting the Nvidia GPU to the applications that don't support Optimus.

It is all the little video incompatibility issues because all the video runs out the Intel iGPU instead of the Nvidia GPU, why??

1) You can't increase the screen refresh beyond 60hz, even if the screen LCD panel will.

2) You can't run 3D out of the laptop, even though it is advertised as supporting 3D!

3) You can't set Custom resolutions to support devices that don't support the standard Windows / Intel resolutions - is that the problem with the Occulus Rift?

4) You loose all the Nvidia control panel tuning abilities because the video outputs are all attached to the Intel GPU instead of the Nvidia GPU, why??

We can only hope that Asus finds fixes / work arounds for these issues with the G751, G550, G551, G771, and beyond.

I know I won't be able to upgrade until Asus reconnects the Nvidia GPU to the video outputs. :(

kaltoreth
10-04-2014, 04:01 PM
Hmscott - Indeed.

If I could only atleast disable it, I wouldent mind it at all.
Gooing on a trip and new some extra battery liftetime? Sure - Turn it on.

Wanna play with your ROG ? Sure - Turn the crap off.

Ohwell - It could be worse I guess :)

hmscott
10-04-2014, 05:22 PM
..Ohwell - It could be worse I guess :)

kaltoreth, it is as worse as it can be and still sell hardware... :)

sagkosh
10-31-2014, 11:27 PM
I can not really undersatdn why ppl are so nagging about this, what is with the quality of this gaming laptop??????
and for your information Optimus is not ASUS technolog.
you can easily disable optimus via Nvidia Control Panel
or if you want to play a game or run an application, right click on it and use RUN WITH DISPLAY PROCESSOR option :)
.... computer newbies

hmscott
10-31-2014, 11:41 PM
I can not really undersatdn why ppl are so nagging about this, what is with the quality of this gaming laptop??????
and for your information Optimus is not ASUS technolog.
you can easily disable optimus via Nvidia Control Panel
or if you want to play a game or run an application, right click on it and use RUN WITH DISPLAY PROCESSOR option :)
.... computer newbies

sagkosh, you would be the newbie believing you can disable Optimus effects through the Nvidia Control panel :)

You can select a global setting, if the application is aware it will take the global setting. The individual application setting is the same; if the application is Optimus aware or forceable by Optimus to run on the desired GPU it will work. That happens much less often than you know.

Optimus has been a problem around for years, and we know it isn't just on Asus laptops, we also know that Optimus *wasn't" on Asus laptops until recently - which is why we bought Asus laptops over those that had Optimus / Intel GPU's enabled.

Windows, IE, and many many many applications won't run on anything other than the main/default GPU - which on Optimus is the lame low fps Intel GPU. The Intel GPU is selected automatically as the default GPU - why force that while running on AC when you have a much more capable GPU - the GPU you paid all that $ to get in the first place.

Optimus makes no sense, and saves so little battery over leaving it out of the design. Especially these days with more battery friendly GPU's - Optimus is a burden of uselessness.

People get upset when they can't run the applications they need to run on their high end laptops with High end GPU's. That is why they are so upset.

Also, they are upset because the CPU now runs 10c hotter with the iGPU enabled on the CPU die on the G750's with Optimus enabled, vs the G750's without Optimus enabled. The iGPU has all video routed through it so even when rendering on the Nvidia GPU the Intel iGPU is adding heat load to the CPU - raising CPU temps 10c at load.

The iGPU routes all video out to the display, HDMI, DisplayPort - so the Optimus limit of 60hz is now the laptops limit - no 3D, no increasing the internal LCD refresh to 100hz - even if the panel supports it. No custom resolutions for special devices like the Oculus rift. No G-sync for new G-sync monitors. All because of Optimus.

A better solutoin would be to support a low power GPU and a high power GPU via a video switch - one that can be enabled / switched in hardware that the OS can see as the default/main GPU at boot - then everything works through that GPU - and the other GPU is powered down.

The new G751JT and G751JY models have no Optimus, no Intel GPU, and no problems with any of the above :)

The new G751JM has Optimus, so beware.

In the end we are all newbies, when it comes to discovering things we don't know :)