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View Full Version : Why "only" 4GB RAm and not 8GB for 980M? Not in line with competitors...



Richdog
10-23-2014, 01:32 PM
As per title, the ASUS G751 comes with "only" a 4GB 980M. While that is of course still respectable for this year, games are being released that actually take more VRAM than this (Shadow of Mordor being one example), and this will only continue thanks to the new gen consoles.

To add to this, Gigabyte and MSI (and others) both use 8GB 980M's in their top gaming laptops... which I really think makes sense in the high-end market, and to ensure that the machines have longevity.

So, why did ASUS only use the 4Gb VRAM version of the 980M in their top-spec laptop, when their competitors are using the 8GB versions? :confused:

mickabah
05-25-2015, 12:17 AM
I agree. Am looking at updating my aging Asus laptop. But need one that will last me 2 to 3 years
But it seems asus are limiting their selfs for some reason. 4gb vram is hardly enough to run modern day games
On full graphics let alone 6 months to even a years time games.
Hope they fix it before having to spend money on a less desirable brand

Edweird
05-25-2015, 07:10 AM
Their competitors are using 8GB versions to lure customers into thinking it makes any sort of practical difference. I dont know what kind of games you've been playing that need more than 4GB of video memory... But it's reflected in the price point.

8GB is good if you want to daisy-chain 4-5 HD monitors, I guess.

You'll have to clarify what "enough" means, I play games that I play on this laptop with a GPU from 4 years ago with a single gigabyte of video memory, losing about 30 out of 60 FPS in the process ... which is in no small part due to the actual core of the GPU and the TYPE of memory i.e DDR3 instead of GDDR5. Also CPU, motherboard elements cooling etc.

I'm going to wager you won't see any difference at all with current games and as I've found to be usual, by the time games come out that would actually challenge how much video memory you have, the GPU core and CPU would be struggling enough for that to be irrelevant (though these new cards mitigate that a bit because of how much closer they are to desktop performance).

ROGTWAT
05-25-2015, 08:40 AM
8GB VRAM are NOT required for native resolution gaming (1080p). Period.

Edweird
05-25-2015, 09:42 AM
Yup. Since the screen is exactly that resolution, it makes no sense to have more than 4 when to really force it you have to game on a 4K external display. People play Witcher 3 on max settings (without hairworks) at 60fps on these machines.

Zombievac
05-25-2015, 02:24 PM
All these posts justifying the 4GB are short sighted. There are ALREADY games that can use more. Having more memory actually helps compensate for the relative weakness of the mobile cards overall. Neither of you will be singing the same tune a year from now. The new consoles have 8GB shared memory, and most of it is used for the GPUs (textures, among other things). Games are, and will continue to be, optimized for 6GB-8GB VRAM for the foreseeable future. This is a short sighted mistake on Asus's part. Though, it does follow in line with their decisions to not support their products after release, so it's to be expected. We'll only get some BIOS updates from now on, and they'll be nothing special.

joshindaphils
05-25-2015, 02:38 PM
It is rather a mute issue. Can't recall where I read it, however the reason why is that these are the configurations offered by nVidia. As well if you look at existing laptops you will see this is exactly what is offered; 8GB = MXM, 4GB = on board.

It makes perfect sense from an engineering standpoint. If you are integrating the graphics on board the space being taken up by the graphics solution will be of importance, and are likely taking this route to save on cost. The lower chip count with providing 4GB of RAM is a double win.

ROGTWAT
05-25-2015, 02:39 PM
All these posts justifying the 4GB are short sighted. There are ALREADY games that can use more. Having more memory actually helps compensate for the relative weakness of the mobile cards overall. Neither of you will be singing the same tune a year from now. The new consoles have 8GB shared memory, and most of it is used for the GPUs (textures, among other things). Games are, and will continue to be, optimized for 6GB-8GB VRAM for the foreseeable future. This is a short sighted mistake on Asus's part. Though, it does follow in line with their decisions to not support their products after release, so it's to be expected. We'll only get some BIOS updates from now on, and they'll be nothing special.

I say games that NEED more, actually need more WORK. Utilizing huge amounts of RAM is not good practice, considering the average gaming pc.

juggar
05-25-2015, 06:10 PM
4gb vram is hardly enough to run modern day games


ARE YOU SMOKING METH?

Your native res is 1080p!!!

4GB IS PLENTY. END OF STORY.

Rediculous. Thinking you need 8gb for 1080p is unreal.

Edweird
05-25-2015, 06:36 PM
All these posts justifying the 4GB are short sighted. There are ALREADY games that can use more. Having more memory actually helps compensate for the relative weakness of the mobile cards overall. Neither of you will be singing the same tune a year from now. The new consoles have 8GB shared memory, and most of it is used for the GPUs (textures, among other things). Games are, and will continue to be, optimized for 6GB-8GB VRAM for the foreseeable future. This is a short sighted mistake on Asus's part. Though, it does follow in line with their decisions to not support their products after release, so it's to be expected. We'll only get some BIOS updates from now on, and they'll be nothing special.

That's why I said that I've been there before, where having more memory than is the standard doesn't really help much at all when the games that come out that ACTUALLY need more memory actually push your GPU core and CPU to the edge. Memory will help, yes, but not in any way that will matter to you.

Maybe you have a different experience to mine. Maybe times are changing, who knows.

Sh4Sh
05-25-2015, 07:15 PM
As everyone said, 4Gb is overkill for 1920x1080.
As for 8Gb, even in 3840 x 2160 you barely go past 5 or 6Gb, and on very few games.
You're probably just trolling

rolloo
05-25-2015, 07:29 PM
if you need 8gb just get yourself a g750JY (better looking , more powerful , more reliable) lol

ciccio80
05-25-2015, 09:07 PM
All these posts justifying the 4GB are short sighted. There are ALREADY games that can use more. Having more memory actually helps compensate for the relative weakness of the mobile cards overall. Neither of you will be singing the same tune a year from now. The new consoles have 8GB shared memory, and most of it is used for the GPUs (textures, among other things). Games are, and will continue to be, optimized for 6GB-8GB VRAM for the foreseeable future. This is a short sighted mistake on Asus's part. Though, it does follow in line with their decisions to not support their products after release, so it's to be expected. We'll only get some BIOS updates from now on, and they'll be nothing special.

You are fondamentally wrong whenyou compare PC to consoles.
Consoles (like PS4) have a total of 8Gb RAM that has to be "shared" between the OS and the games. So no way a game from PS4 uses 8Gb....more like 3-4GB. The rest is OS, internet and background applications to makle the console work.
So 4GB VRAM is more than enough for all the games in FullHD our 980m can handle.

bluepinapple
05-26-2015, 06:37 AM
I do not believe this thread is for trolling. I am not a heavy pc gamer, but I do output the g751 to a 4k monitor.
I do photo editting, but obviously I'm going to game as well, so to utilize the 4k monitor and still have stable high frames, 8gb would have been nice.
At least this isn't alienware though.... they really skimp out on hardware and bump up the prices

Edweird
05-26-2015, 07:18 AM
Yes, for heavy tasks at 4K resolutions, while doing video intensive work, memory helps, there can be no doubt about this. Worth saying that this machine is an all-round powerful computer with a focus on gaming, it isn't meant to be a mobile workstation powerhouse although as many people are finding, there is little that can actually really stress it out. NVidia's Quadro line of cards comes to mind for those sort of applications.

Zombievac
05-26-2015, 07:33 PM
You are fondamentally wrong whenyou compare PC to consoles.
Consoles (like PS4) have a total of 8Gb RAM that has to be "shared" between the OS and the games. So no way a game from PS4 uses 8Gb....more like 3-4GB. The rest is OS, internet and background applications to makle the console work.
So 4GB VRAM is more than enough for all the games in FullHD our 980m can handle.

LOL, dude, all you did was assert I was wrong and then repeat what I said... except your UN-educated guess about how much the PS4 uses for the OS when running a game. It uses less than 1GB while a game is running, I assure you. And most of the remaining 7GB+ is being used for textures and other GPU related functions, note I said MOST as it depends on the game. But some already use well over 4GB for GPU functions and that will only increase in the future as they optimize games on the consoles and stay wasteful as always on the PC versions.

Clintlgm
05-26-2015, 08:32 PM
Well I guess your only solution would be to buy one of the competitors that has the 8GB Card. Its highly improbable that Asus is worrying much at all by what is said in this forum. We always want more and we buy what we can afford that fits our purposes. My G75 is still relevant and beast for my purposes it will be 3 years old next month.

Edweird
05-26-2015, 11:06 PM
Or, again, a G750JY.

Bridger
05-27-2015, 10:26 AM
The new consoles have 8GB shared memory, and most of it is used for the GPUs (textures, among other things).

The last time I read about the PS4 and the XBox they could not run Watch Dogs at Full HD and only with 30FPS.

NitroX
05-27-2015, 11:43 AM
I'll tell you one reason why ASUS didn't choose the 8GB version for the GPU. The 8GB version comes only with mxm connection while ASUS has always used soldered GPU's in order to reduce the costs. This is one of the reasons why the MSI and Gigabyte notebooks are also pricier. Customization comes with a price unfortunately.

Look at the new Clevo notebooks the P650 and P670, that can also be customized with only Gtx980 4GB instead of the 8GB. This is because they have also cut the MXM port in order to reduce the size, weight and cost.

I may be wrong though, so I would like to ask you guys to also make some research in this area and see if my presumptions are true. At least, if they are, we can all stop blaming ASUS that they have chosen a lesser 4GB variant just to annoy us (and I really don't think that this is the case).

There are also some contradictions between the guys over here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gtx-970-980m-4gb-vs-8gb.768910/

Zombievac
05-27-2015, 01:41 PM
I'll tell you one reason why ASUS didn't choose the 8GB version for the GPU. The 8GB version comes only with mxm connection while ASUS has always used soldered GPU's in order to reduce the costs. This is one of the reasons why the MSI and Gigabyte notebooks are also pricier. Customization comes with a price unfortunately.

Look at the new Clevo notebooks the P650 and P670, that can also be customized with only Gtx980 4GB instead of the 8GB. This is because they have also cut the MXM port in order to reduce the size, weight and cost.

I may be wrong though, so I would like to ask you guys to also make some research in this area and see if my presumptions are true. At least, if they are, we can all stop blaming ASUS that they have chosen a lesser 4GB variant just to annoy us (and I really don't think that this is the case).

There are also some contradictions between the guys over here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gtx-970-980m-4gb-vs-8gb.768910/

Well it's certainly not to annoy us, probably just another dumb design decision like making the 2nd SATA port in most models SATA2 (or all? Mine still says the 2nd drive is running in SATA3 so I can't tell if that's a mistake in HWinfo64 or they did address that issue in later manufactured units), or making default builds that don't have an even number of RAM DIMMs for dual channel.

Edweird
05-27-2015, 03:10 PM
I think you'll find it interesting that my optical drive and left HDD both run at SATA 3 but my second HDD runs at SATA II :)

Zombievac
05-27-2015, 05:21 PM
I think you'll find it interesting that my optical drive and left HDD both run at SATA 3 but my second HDD runs at SATA II :)

Thanks, Ed! Good to know that the optical drive is at least SATA3, so with a caddy that's an option. How are you confirming your 2nd bay runs at SATA2? I suspect mine is, like everyone else, but none of the sysinfo apps I've tried say that, they say it's SATA3...

Edweird
05-27-2015, 05:45 PM
Actually it looks like I lied, it was reporting SATA 6GB/s earlier but now HWINFO is saying it's 1.5GB/z aka SATA I.
The SATA3/2 thing appears to be software level. Hardware-wise the ports themselves seem to be the same. Whichever side I plug the HDD into, it always shows SATA 6GB/s. Plugging a data drive into whichever is the non-boot drive port always makes it SATA II for me. I wonder why it would do that if the caddies have a Slave and Master indication on them...

But we're off-topic.

ciccio80
05-27-2015, 08:07 PM
LOL, dude, all you did was assert I was wrong and then repeat what I said... except your UN-educated guess about how much the PS4 uses for the OS when running a game. It uses less than 1GB while a game is running, I assure you. And most of the remaining 7GB+ is being used for textures and other GPU related functions, note I said MOST as it depends on the game. But some already use well over 4GB for GPU functions and that will only increase in the future as they optimize games on the consoles and stay wasteful as always on the PC versions.

The PS4 has had a few new updates since launch date...now the OS does so many things more, so I sincerly doubt It uses less than 1Gb in 2015.
The reality is the PS4 has 8GB RAM to do everithing.
We have 16/24/32GB system RAM for everything + 4GB VRAM exclusivly for GPU.
Not to mention that the 980m is A LOT faster than the PS4 GPU.
So everithing the PS4 can do, our G751JY can do bettere (higher resolutions, antialiasing and better FPS). Today and in the future.

You don't need more than 4Gb VRAM for graphics with HD resolution (1080p). You would only need it if you played games in 3-4K or extreme antialiasing options (but there the 980m would be the limiting factor anyway).

8Gb of VRAM would have brought the G751 price up 200-250 euro/dollars more....for no reasone. At least Asus made a good decision there.

Don't worry, by the time games will need 8Gb VRAM, you will also need a better GPU than the 980m.
Not trying to troll, these are just plane facts ;)