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Exostenza
11-02-2014, 05:35 PM
I like to overclock as much as I can and considering the cooling in this laptop we should be able to squeeze some power out of this CPU. I had it overclocked to 35x on all four cores and then after I updated the BIOS from 202 to 203 Intel XTU gave me an error that some values were missing and when I made a new profile I noticed that every max was limited to one lower than before. I wonder if this was on purpose or just a mistake in the new BIOS. Either way it take a little bit of power away from us overclockers...

Thought I would give people a heads up.

Update: BIOS 203, 204 and 205 all have 34x as their max four cores multiplier while 202 has the intended by Intel 35x multiplier for all four cores. I e-mailed support well over a month ago and they said that the relevant people have been notified and still nothing has happened and I have not been update by support.

hmscott
11-03-2014, 07:55 AM
I like to overclock as much as I can and considering the cooling in this laptop we should be able to squeeze some power out of this CPU. I had it overclocked to 35x on all four cores and then after I updated the BIOS from 202 to 203 Intel XTU gave me an error that some values were missing and when I made a new profile I noticed that every max was limited to one lower than before. I wonder if this was on purpose or just a mistake in the new BIOS. Either way it take a little bit of power away from us overclockers...
Thought I would give people a heads up.

Exostenza, you can add /nodate at the end of the command line Target for Winflash and it will let you install an older BIOS than the installed BIOS - so you can roll back to the BIOS with 35x :)

42817

Exostenza
11-03-2014, 07:25 PM
Hey, thanks a lot! Considering that a meager 100mhz on the CPU got me another 3fps in Ungine Valley, anything we can get on this CPU is going to help us as we are held back by the CPU with our GPUs for sure. I am very curious why everyone decided to downgrade the CPUs for this generation considering that last generation all the laptops had 4810 processors. I wish we could unlock these things and really overclock them. It seems strange that Asus has these expensive laptops and didn't even bother to pair the correct CPUs with them in order not to bottleneck components.

EDIT: Went back to 202 with your method and now I am back to 3.5ghz on all four cores. Thanks again!

hmscott
11-04-2014, 01:26 AM
Hey, thanks a lot! Considering that a meager 100mhz on the CPU got me another 3fps in Ungine Valley, anything we can get on this CPU is going to help us as we are held back by the CPU with our GPUs for sure. I am very curious why everyone decided to downgrade the CPUs for this generation considering that last generation all the laptops had 4810 processors. I wish we could unlock these things and really overclock them. It seems strange that Asus has these expensive laptops and didn't even bother to pair the correct CPUs with them in order not to bottleneck components.

EDIT: Went back to 202 with your method and now I am back to 3.5ghz on all four cores. Thanks again!

Awesome! :)

You could file a Technical Inquiry with Asus informing them of the "problem" introduced with 203 - that the range of clock rates changed and is adversely affecting your performance, so you rolled back to the previous BIOS, would they please issue a fixed BIOS 203 or a new BIOS with the clock speeds restored. :)

Just in case, I downloaded a copy of BIOS 202, just in case Asus pulls it later...

Good luck!

_
11-04-2014, 03:45 AM
What CPU do you have and which model G751 exactly?

arlonjohn427
11-05-2014, 09:16 AM
Hi there

Can we go over 35x?
I'm not a pro in overclocking but isnt a ratio of 35 what a 4710HQ is supposed to be when in turbo mode ?

hmscott
11-11-2014, 11:29 PM
Hi there
Can we go over 35x?
I'm not a pro in overclocking but isnt a ratio of 35 what a 4710HQ is supposed to be when in turbo mode ?

arlonjohn427, Intel holds back full multiplier's on CPU's, and provides Intel Extreme Tuning Utility ( XTU ) to restore full speed - probably to avoid overheating on inadequate cooling systems - the G751/G750 can handle the full CPU speed.

But, we can't go past the Max Multiplier that Intel allows with XTU.

On desktop ROG Motherboards you can tweak other tunings to get more speed, even without an Extreme CPU with unlocked Multipliers, but our ROG laptops have minimal tuning available. There is nothing else we can do without hacking the BIOS/vBIOS . Which is not really worth it within the closed cooling system in the ROG laptop - we can swap in a better cooler / more power than it comes with.

What I don't get is the i7-4700 Max Core Multipliers are 36x,35x,34x,34x with the CPU Cache max at 36x - don't the new G751's have 36x available on the first core?

Also, I have heard Asus is now including Intel Extreme Tuning Utility installed on the G751, pretty cool :)

The latest XTU version is: 5.1.1.25
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/SearchResult.aspx?lang=eng&keyword=xtu

fabrimacator21
01-01-2015, 05:49 AM
I can set mine all the way to 37(3.7ghz)??? I keep it at 35x. My question though is why am I not hitting 3.5ghz on the 4710hq? Highest I've seen while playing x plane was 3.39 ghz. I'd like to have that extra 100 mhz if possible. Any thoughts?

NitroX
01-01-2015, 10:36 AM
arlonjohn427, Intel holds back full multiplier's on CPU's, and provides Intel Extreme Tuning Utility ( XTU ) to restore full speed - probably to avoid overheating on inadequate cooling systems - the G751/G750 can handle the full CPU speed.

But, we can't go past the Max Multiplier that Intel allows with XTU.

On desktop ROG Motherboards you can tweak other tunings to get more speed, even without an Extreme CPU with unlocked Multipliers, but our ROG laptops have minimal tuning available. There is nothing else we can do without hacking the BIOS/vBIOS . Which is not really worth it within the closed cooling system in the ROG laptop - we can swap in a better cooler / more power than it comes with.

What I don't get is the i7-4700 Max Core Multipliers are 36x,35x,34x,34x with the CPU Cache max at 36x - don't the new G751's have 36x available on the first core?

Also, I have heard Asus is now including Intel Extreme Tuning Utility installed on the G751, pretty cool :)

The latest XTU version is: 5.1.1.25
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/SearchResult.aspx?lang=eng&keyword=xtu

Yes, we do have the option to set x36, x35, x34, x34. We also have the option to change the "Reference clock" and overclock the CPU's frequencies. It seems that ASUS gives us a lot of space on these G751. But don't forget about the limiting factor atm: the temperature. After ASUS will come with an updated fan profile, maybe then we could try to go past the 3500Mhz.

See pic: 44808

@Fabrimacator21: You only hit 3.39Ghz because the mutiplier when all 4 cores are running can be set to a maximum of x34. Maybe if you change the "Reference clock" it will also change your frequency when all 4 cores are runing. Like on the picture above. Do be careful with OC the CPU because it may void your warranty if anything goes wrong because of it.

fabrimacator21
01-01-2015, 11:19 AM
I set the second core to 34 and left the first one at 35 and saw it vary between 3.39 and 3.49. I did that to see if the extra speed would fix a stuttering issue which it didn't. Highest CPU temp was about 68C. Does hyper threading use two cores? From what I've read it sounds like it only uses one but why would the speed go up when setting the second core to 34. Active core count was only 1 when It was varying between 3.39 and 3.49ghz.

Being that all I did is bump up the 2nd core to 34(set at 33 on default) it should be fine shouldnt it?

hmscott
01-01-2015, 03:05 PM
I set the second core to 34 and left the first one at 35 and saw it vary between 3.39 and 3.49. I did that to see if the extra speed would fix a stuttering issue which it didn't. Highest CPU temp was about 68C. Does hyper threading use two cores? From what I've read it sounds like it only uses one but why would the speed go up when setting the second core to 34. Active core count was only 1 when It was varying between 3.39 and 3.49ghz.
Being that all I did is bump up the 2nd core to 34(set at 33 on default) it should be fine shouldnt it?

fabrimacator21, the thermal throttling problem only happens when people simultaneously load the CPU and GPU such that the cooling system reaches it's limits when all 4 cores + GPU are at 100% load.

The solution for those that need to run rendering with all 4 (8) cores is to reduce the multiplier from the maximum for 4 active cores to 33x, and if needed to reduce 3 active cores to 33x - the CPU's have difference multiplier ranges so what every your max multiplier is for 3/4 active cores drop down by 1 or 2 multipliers.

For 1 or 2 active cores you can slide the multipliers to the maximum, some CPU's have a 37x max, some 36x max, some have a BIOS that drops that down to 35x, but for the 1 or 2 active cores you can run the Maximum. And, don't forget to move the slider for the CPU cache up to maximum too.

The main cores are what are listed, but it also includes the matching hyper-thread core for each main core. The settings apply to the hyper-threaded core as well.

Intel ships the CPU detuned from Maximum multipliers because not all computers have enough cooling, and the G751/750 both have enough cooling to take advantage of max multipliers in most situations.

fabrimacator21
01-01-2015, 03:58 PM
Thanks for all the good help hmscott!!! Valuable info! Setting the 1 and 2 cores to max should get it up to 3.7ghz! That is pretty good for games that use hyperthreading. So that means hyperthreading is using two cores....possibly switching between 1 & 2? Switching between cores would explain why I was getting 3.39 then 3.49 as the first core was set higher.

Once the warranty is gone its nice to know that we have some headroom with these things. For now, I'm more then happy with it in stock settings. Sounds like xplane 10 may just use the first two cores one at a time so I probably won't do anymore then 35 on those....not sure I wanna trust a 3.7ghz OC yet(first time I heard about OC was when I bought this laptop). I sure wish they'd figure out how to take advantage of four cores somewhere besides loading in that game.

Just curious hmscott.... How do you know all this? I like hearing it can hit 3.7ghz but burning this thing up is a scary thought. Just wanna be sure it is safe as I'm new to all this.:). Maybe we should wait for a better fan profile from nvidia before pushing it past the advertised 3.5ghz like nitrox was saying?

hmscott
01-01-2015, 04:10 PM
Thanks for all the good help hmscott!!! Valuable info! Setting the 1 and 2 cores to max should get it up to 3.7ghz! That is pretty good for games that use hyperthreading. So that means hyperthreading is using two cores....possibly switching between 1 & 2? Switching between cores would explain why I was getting 3.39 then 3.49 as the first core was set higher.

Once the warranty is gone its nice to know that we have some headroom with these things. For now, I'm more then happy with it in stock settings. Sounds like xplane 10 may just use the first two cores one at a time so I probably won't do anymore then 35 on those....not sure I wanna trust a 3.7ghz OC yet(first time I heard about OC was when I bought this laptop). I sure wish they'd figure out how to take advantage of four cores somewhere besides loading in that game.

Just curious hmscott.... How do you know all this?

fabrimacator21, the CPU frequency is varying due to demand. You are likely on the Balanced Power Plan, which should be set to CPU Min/Max 0%/100%, so as CPU work is completed the CPU downclocks to reduce power consumption / heat - it is the best long term setting - this allows the CPU to cool off in between loads.

If you want 100% CPU speed all the time, set it to High Performance CPU Min/Max 100%/100%. Then the CPU will downclock Turbo as you load cores, dropping according to the settings you made in XTU for multipliers - or the Intel shipping defaults.

Using XTU to change the Multipliers isn't really Overclocking in the normal sense, it is restoring designed spec settings created by Intel, for use on computers with enough cooling headroom - which both the G751 and G750 have.

Go ahead and set Active cores 1/2 to max, and decrease active cores 3/4 1 or 2 steps if you run 4/8 core active jobs frequently, or set them all to Max multiplier if you do normal gaming - if you do heavy gaming for long periods, consider at least dropping the 4 active core setting 1 or 2 clicks down from max.

Your post got cut off...

fabrimacator21
01-01-2015, 04:22 PM
I was trying to sneak an edit in there but you beat me to it. I'm definitely glad I bought Asus! Learned a lot on these forums...your last post is what I have been looking for. Thanks to nitrox too!

x7007
01-03-2015, 06:03 PM
Hi,

If I'm using 36x 35x 34x 33x or just lets say the highest of the multiplier you can choose from, the temparature is perfectly fine while gaming, I played APB Reloaded using highest graphics. Gpu temp was 70c , Cpu was 72 or so. Would that be fine to use the max multipler cpu settings ? could this make a BSOD or a system crash ? I think the game used 4-5 cores, there will be a problem while using all the cpus in a game that will use all 8 cores ?

Exostenza
01-04-2015, 12:48 PM
Awesome! :)

You could file a Technical Inquiry with Asus informing them of the "problem" introduced with 203 - that the range of clock rates changed and is adversely affecting your performance, so you rolled back to the previous BIOS, would they please issue a fixed BIOS 203 or a new BIOS with the clock speeds restored. :)

Just in case, I downloaded a copy of BIOS 202, just in case Asus pulls it later...

Good luck!

Well, they said a while back that they passed it on to the relevant department and so far I have heard nothing since and there has been no update. Those who are using bios 203, 204 or 205 have all of their multipliers limited by a factor of one. It would be nice to see them fix this as the extra 100mz actually makes a bit of a difference considering that our GPU is held back by our CPU.


What CPU do you have and which model G751 exactly?

G571JY w/4710

Edweird
01-08-2015, 03:41 PM
I'm faced with the same issue as well. BIOS 205, G751JY GTX980M i7-4710HQ. Multiplier only goes up to 36x and CPU nevet really actually reaches that speed.

hmscott
01-08-2015, 09:01 PM
Hi,
If I'm using 36x 35x 34x 33x or just lets say the highest of the multiplier you can choose from, the temparature is perfectly fine while gaming, I played APB Reloaded using highest graphics. Gpu temp was 70c , Cpu was 72 or so. Would that be fine to use the max multipler cpu settings ? could this make a BSOD or a system crash ? I think the game used 4-5 cores, there will be a problem while using all the cpus in a game that will use all 8 cores ?

x7007, Intel reduces the max multiplier by default because many applications might not have as good of cooling as the G750/G751, so you need to measure the heat generated for your laptop when maximizing the multipliers. From your numbers it looks good. For most/all G750/G751 you should be able to run at maximum multiplier and cache ratios without problems.

For some rendering applications you might need to trim the max multiplier for 3/4 cores running to 1x/2x less than max to stop Thermal Throttling on the G751, but even then you likely wouldn't notice it, as the CPU would downclock and stop the heat throttling - you would lose some performance while the CPU finds a supportable heat/load level, that is why you proactively set the multipliers for 3/4 cores active with XTU ahead of time - and set 1/2 cores to maximum multiplier.

Have fun :)

hmscott
01-08-2015, 09:08 PM
I'm faced with the same issue as well. BIOS 205, G751JY GTX980M i7-4710HQ. Multiplier only goes up to 36x and CPU nevet really actually reaches that speed.

Edweird, I think we need to get you a test to make that visible Edweird, as if you set it, and the right conditions are met - 1 active thread - you will hit the set level.

Use hwinfo64 in logging mode to monitor and log the values every minute, or more often, and run something like prime95 1 thread of FFT/Blend and you will see you do hit the maximum set core multiplier for 1x, and then try 2x, etc.

There is a "Turbo Boost Power Time Window" duration, and if yours is adjustable you can increase it past the 8 second default to get longer duration Turbo. My 4700HQ defaults to 28 seconds and isn't adjustable. Others that have adjustability (4860/4710) have set it to the max 999999 and the results are greater than at 8 seconds, but no greater than what I get at 28 seconds. Try this.

Have fun :)

Edweird
01-08-2015, 09:30 PM
Edweird, I think we need to get you a test to make that visible Edweird, as if you set it, and the right conditions are met - 1 active thread - you will hit the set level.

Use hwinfo64 in logging mode to monitor and log the values every minute, or more often, and run something like prime95 1 thread of FFT/Blend and you will see you do hit the maximum set core multiplier for 1x, and then try 2x, etc.

There is a "Turbo Boost Power Time Window" duration, and if yours is adjustable you can increase it past the 8 second default to get longer duration Turbo. My 4700HQ defaults to 28 seconds and isn't adjustable. Others that have adjustability (4860/4710) have set it to the max 999999 and the results are greater than at 8 seconds, but no greater than what I get at 28 seconds. Try this.

Have fun :)

As I posted in my topic I already did Prime95, temps never went above 80 and CPU only hit 3.6 only a few times for really just a moment. This thing just doesn't care what I throw at it lol.

Same result with ThrottleStop single-thread 32/1024M calculation bench. It keeps using 2 cores. :S

Also that slider confuses me - it says that this is the time period over with the CPu power must be LESS than the power max. How does this mean that it stays in turbo longer? I'd think it means the exact opposite.

But anyways, I have the Short Power Max set to 60W and Boost Power Max to 50W as well - will see if setting above 28 seconds does anything. (btw, the max on my XTU is 3145728 seconds for some reason)

hmscott
01-08-2015, 11:46 PM
As I posted in my topic I already did Prime95, temps never went above 80 and CPU only hit 3.6 only a few times for really just a moment. This thing just doesn't care what I throw at it lol.

Same result with ThrottleStop single-thread 32/1024M calculation bench. It keeps using 2 cores. :S

Also that slider confuses me - it says that this is the time period over with the CPu power must be LESS than the power max. How does this mean that it stays in turbo longer? I'd think it means the exact opposite.

But anyways, I have the Short Power Max set to 60W and Boost Power Max to 50W as well - will see if setting above 28 seconds does anything. (btw, the max on my XTU is 3145728 seconds for some reason)

You set "Turbo Boost Power Time Window" increased and you noticed more performance...

The increases exist, the changes make a difference, and it comes down to the user expertise to find the correct way to recognize the improvements.

Many many many people before you have already been through this and successfully made the settings changes and found improvements.

Overclocking the i7-4710HQ on a G751JY and issues
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?55984-Overclocking-the-i7-4710HQ-on-a-G751JY-and-issues&p=465007&viewfull=1#post465007

I think you are on the right track now :)

cablebandit
01-09-2015, 02:04 AM
fabrimacator21, the thermal throttling problem only happens when people simultaneously load the CPU and GPU such that the cooling system reaches it's limits when all 4 cores + GPU are at 100% load.

The solution for those that need to run rendering with all 4 (8) cores is to reduce the multiplier from the maximum for 4 active cores to 33x, and if needed to reduce 3 active cores to 33x - the CPU's have difference multiplier ranges so what every your max multiplier is for 3/4 active cores drop down by 1 or 2 multipliers.

For 1 or 2 active cores you can slide the multipliers to the maximum, some CPU's have a 37x max, some 36x max, some have a BIOS that drops that down to 35x, but for the 1 or 2 active cores you can run the Maximum. And, don't forget to move the slider for the CPU cache up to maximum too.

The main cores are what are listed, but it also includes the matching hyper-thread core for each main core. The settings apply to the hyper-threaded core as well.

Intel ships the CPU detuned from Maximum multipliers because not all computers have enough cooling, and the G751/750 both have enough cooling to take advantage of max multipliers in most situations.

I don't know if that is BS or not but it made my nipples hard. ;)

fabrimacator21
01-09-2015, 06:01 AM
Hmscott, is there a hyperthread core for each of the 4 cores? Im just wondering because the game that i pretty much bought this thing for (x plane 10) Only uses one core, so I'm wondering if I can just turn up that one core. I guess I may be able to find out by looking at core temps to tell which one is active while playing but Im curious how these things are setup when it comes to hyperthreading. I will try that next time I play and report back.

hmscott
01-09-2015, 01:37 PM
Hmscott, is there a hyperthread core for each of the 4 cores? Im just wondering because the game that i pretty much bought this thing for (x plane 10) Only uses one core, so I'm wondering if I can just turn up that one core. I guess I may be able to find out by looking at core temps to tell which one is active while playing but Im curious how these things are setup when it comes to hyperthreading. I will try that next time I play and report back.

fabrimacator21, it may be an old app, not built with hyper-threading or multi-threading aware libraries, so it will only operate with 1 core - but the good news is everything else on your system should be multi-threaded and will take advantage of the rest of the cores and hyper-threading.

hyper-threading only helps maybe up to +20% for most aware apps, so it isn't a doubling of performance for the main core, it is just an adjunct that can be running in parallel for a boost. But, it adds a lot of heat. That is why when OC'ing desktop processors, past a certain point, you can get further OC by disabling the Hyperthreading in the BIOS and get rid of that heat source - +10c reduction after disabling at load while OC'ing.

You can simulate disabling the hyper-threading for high usage tasks by disabling the hyper-threading cores in Windows. Like CS:GO - you right click on the Steam processes with Windows Task Manager and select Affinity and then disable the odd cores, so when you start a game with Steam the game will only use the even cores:

Disabling odd cores for Steam processes using Task manager
45311

After starting Metro-Last Light, it is only using even cores
45312

When used for CS:GO the user could run at full FPS without overheating/throttling his CPU, and got better performance overall, even after dropping the hyperthreading cores.

If your x-plane configuration isn't using the other cores, you can fix the x-plane process to stay on 1 core, or another, using Affinity, and disable the other cores.

Here is an interesting article on X-plane and multi-threading, from 2009!
http://developer.x-plane.com/2009/06/multi-threading-is-a-weird-feature-request/

Another from 2010
http://developer.x-plane.com/2010/08/multicore-and-version-10/

From 2011
http://forums.x-plane.org/?showtopic=55346

2014
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?285402-Is-X-Plane-multi-core-software

Have fun :)

fabrimacator21
01-09-2015, 04:17 PM
That is a whole lot of great info hmscott! After reading those articles it sounds like hyperthreading may be hurting performance. I'll try disabling the odd cores and see if there's any difference. Its funny because that article said that XP10 will take advantage of multiple cores but XTU pretty much shows a flat line of just one active core every time I play.

hmscott
01-09-2015, 05:02 PM
That is a whole lot of great info hmscott! After reading those articles it sounds like hyperthreading may be hurting performance. I'll try disabling the odd cores and see if there's any difference. Its funny because that article said that XP10 will take advantage of multiple cores but XTU pretty much shows a flat line of just one active core every time I play.

fabrimacator21, try watching with hwinfo64 loggin enabled, that will give you actual numbers on each core sampled through the gaming session. I usually use Windows Task Manager, set for individial CPU core monitoring to get a visual:

45318

x7007
01-15-2015, 02:52 AM
I check to see in CPUZ the clock and now it is 3.4 only, I think I uninstalled Game Center and Asus Game First 3 and it is now not going above 3.4, I am using the Intel ETU and I set the CPU to highest multiplier. maybe the Game Center is the profile to change the Cpu speed ? using bios 205

45460

45461

sk3tch
01-15-2015, 03:51 AM
Hey, thanks a lot! Considering that a meager 100mhz on the CPU got me another 3fps in Ungine Valley, anything we can get on this CPU is going to help us as we are held back by the CPU with our GPUs for sure. I am very curious why everyone decided to downgrade the CPUs for this generation considering that last generation all the laptops had 4810 processors. I wish we could unlock these things and really overclock them. It seems strange that Asus has these expensive laptops and didn't even bother to pair the correct CPUs with them in order not to bottleneck components.

EDIT: Went back to 202 with your method and now I am back to 3.5ghz on all four cores. Thanks again!

Just to be clear - the 980M is by no means "held back" by the 4710HQ. CPUs have been very stagnant since the Sandy Bridge release (mostly just getting more energy efficient since then) - there's no benefit to gaming to have the "highest end" mobile CPU in these laptops. I just want to make sure everyone is clear on that - ASUS made some very, very smart design decisions with the G751. Let's not take that credit away. :)

Carry on - this is a great thread RE: the BIOS adding in CPU limitations!

x7007
01-15-2015, 04:47 AM
after restart it fixed 3.6

45463

Exostenza
01-16-2015, 01:17 AM
after restart it fixed 3.6

45463

You are definitely missing something here. Our CPU is limited to 3.4ghz when using all four cores. The reason you saw 3.6ghz is because it was only using one core. Look at the multipliers in XTU. 3.6ghz for 1 active core, 3.5ghz for 2 active cores and 3.4ghz for 4 active cores. In BIOS 202 (like OP discusses if you read it) all these stages are 100mhz faster as there is supposed to be an extra multiplier according to the Intel intended specifications and for some reason Asus has removed the last step in the multiplier for us.