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CodeRed
10-27-2011, 08:06 PM
As you know ASUS G74Sx is not so portable computer and can be used like Desktop. In this case is it save to unplugged battery and work from electricity. Is it save or it will be better to use with battery?

What do you think and what can recommend ASUS...

Thank you.

Yahooligan
10-27-2011, 08:25 PM
My question to you is "Why?"

It doesn't make any sense to run without the battery and would be much safer for your data if you keep the battery in since it's a built-in battery backup. Power goes out, cord gets unplugged, etc your laptop won't be instantly powered off if you keep the battery in.

xeromist
10-27-2011, 08:28 PM
It doesn't really matter much. The charging plan doesn't constantly charge and will only top off the battery after it discharges about 5% I think (hence not wearing out quickly). If you remove the battery then you will need to remember to put it back and charge it before you do move the laptop, even if that isn't often. It's up to you though.

gg31hh
10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
Hi All,

So are you saying that leaving the batteries on at all time wont jeopardize the life of G74SX batteries? Please advice
Thx in advance

Yahooligan
10-28-2011, 12:18 AM
Hi All,

So are you saying that leaving the batteries on at all time wont jeopardize the life of G74SX batteries? Please advice
Thx in advance

Correct, the laptop manages the battery and isn't just always charging it even when fully charged. In fact, letting the laptop control the battery charge by doing small charge/discharge cycles (Letting battery level drop to, say, 95% and then charging back to 100%) will extend the life of the battery and allow for more charge/discharge cycles compared to running the battery down to less than 50% before charging it back up.

Also, removing a fully-charged laptop Li-Ion battery and putting it into storage will cause it to lose total capacity by about 20% per year. If you're going to store a Li-Ion battery it should be discharged to 40% of capacity first. By doing this you only lose about 4% of capacity per year.

The short of it is leaving the battery in the laptop and leaving the laptop plugged in will be the least stressful on the battery and allow it to last the longest compared to removing it and throwing it in the closet or desk drawer.

gg31hh
10-28-2011, 12:26 AM
Correct, the laptop manages the battery and isn't just always charging it even when fully charged. In fact, letting the laptop control the battery charge by doing small charge/discharge cycles (Letting battery level drop to, say, 95% and then charging back to 100%) will extend the life of the battery and allow for more charge/discharge cycles compared to running the battery down to less than 50% before charging it back up.

Also, removing a fully-charged laptop Li-Ion battery and putting it into storage will cause it to lose total capacity by about 20% per year. If you're going to store a Li-Ion battery it should be discharged to 40% of capacity first. By doing this you only lose about 4% of capacity per year.


The short of it is leaving the battery in the laptop and leaving the laptop plugged in will be the least stressful on the battery and allow it to last the longest compared to removing it and throwing it in the closet or desk drawer.


Thank you. You have very well answer all my years of Laptop batteries dilemma.
I was bought out from the concept of " discharge all the power or you will effect the batteries memory"

I guess the technology of Computer batteries evolve from my olden day understanding

Yahooligan
10-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Thank you. You have very well answer all my years of Laptop batteries dilemma.
I was bought out from the concept of " discharge all the power or you will effect the batteries memory"

I guess the technology of Computer batteries evolve from my olden day understanding

Indeed, laptop batteries these days don't have memory like the old-school Ni-Cd batteries. Lithium-Ion batteries, like our G74s use, have no memory. Their life varies based on temperature, depth of discharge, and total charge/discharge cycles.

For example, discharging a Li-Ion battery "100%" every time will reduce the useful battery life to 500 cycles. Only discharging the battery to 50% increases the life to 1500 cycles, and so on. Less stress on the battery gives a longer life in terms of cycles.

gg31hh
10-28-2011, 04:44 AM
Indeed, laptop batteries these days don't have memory like the old-school Ni-Cd batteries. Lithium-Ion batteries, like our G74s use, have no memory. Their life varies based on temperature, depth of discharge, and total charge/discharge cycles.

For example, discharging a Li-Ion battery "100%" every time will reduce the useful battery life to 500 cycles. Only discharging the battery to 50% increases the life to 1500 cycles, and so on. Less stress on the battery gives a longer life in terms of cycles.


I see. It is interesting what people says when you google "extending batteries life" . But I thank you for your clear explanation.

So to be clear, It is best not to empty all the power from batteries but to let it fluctuate between 100% ~ 50%?

Brian@ASUS
10-28-2011, 04:47 AM
To a very small degree taking out your battery may help save your batteries life. all lithium ion batteries will decrease in battery life the more you use it. but honestly, by the time your battery is on its way out, you would have probably upgraded to a newer notebook by then. this over several years of constant charge discharge. personally i would use it like normal. its not worth the hassle to worry about taking it in and out. after a few times, you're going to say screw it just leave it in. besides what if you happen to disconnect your charger from the wall. its better to have the battery be there as a safety than your system turning off instantly.

BrodyBoy
10-28-2011, 05:29 AM
Also, removing a fully-charged laptop Li-Ion battery and putting it into storage will cause it to lose total capacity by about 20% per year. If you're going to store a Li-Ion battery it should be discharged to 40% of capacity first. By doing this you only lose about 4% of capacity per year.
Great info! Thanks for that. :)

Yahooligan
10-28-2011, 06:44 AM
I see. It is interesting what people says when you google "extending batteries life" . But I thank you for your clear explanation.

So to be clear, It is best not to empty all the power from batteries but to let it fluctuate between 100% ~ 50%?

That's correct. Repeated deep discharges consume more of the battery and reduce life compared to shorter, shallower discharges. The example of the 100% vs 50% depth of discharge is a perfect example. If you only get 500 cycles out of a battery with 100% discharge every time and you get 1500 if you only discharge to 50% of capacity that's an increase in battery life of 1.5x/150%. Every time a battery is discharged part of it "dies" and will never hold a charge again.

A tool that's pretty handy for multiple aspects of PCs is "HWiNFO" (HWiNFO64 for 64-bit users like us). This gives TONS of info on the hardware it detects in your system, one of which is the battery. It tells you stated capacity, actual capacity, wear level (% degradation from factory spec), etc.

For mine it says the following.

Device Name: G74--52
Manufacturer Name: ASUSTek
Serial Number:
Unique ID: ASUSTekG74--52
Chemistry:
Designed Capacity: 78000 mWh
Full Charged Capacity: 77790 mWh
Wear Level: 0.3 %

Current Power Status
Power Status: On AC Power
Current Capacity: 77415 mWh (99.5 %)
Current Voltage: 16.720 V

CodeRed
10-28-2011, 08:05 AM
Thanks everyone for detail description.

gg31hh
10-28-2011, 08:23 AM
That's correct. Repeated deep discharges consume more of the battery and reduce life compared to shorter, shallower discharges. The example of the 100% vs 50% depth of discharge is a perfect example. If you only get 500 cycles out of a battery with 100% discharge every time and you get 1500 if you only discharge to 50% of capacity that's an increase in battery life of 1.5x/150%. Every time a battery is discharged part of it "dies" and will never hold a charge again.

A tool that's pretty handy for multiple aspects of PCs is "HWiNFO" (HWiNFO64 for 64-bit users like us). This gives TONS of info on the hardware it detects in your system, one of which is the battery. It tells you stated capacity, actual capacity, wear level (% degradation from factory spec), etc.

For mine it says the following.

Device Name: G74--52
Manufacturer Name: ASUSTek
Serial Number:
Unique ID: ASUSTekG74--52
Chemistry:
Designed Capacity: 78000 mWh
Full Charged Capacity: 77790 mWh
Wear Level: 0.3 %

Current Power Status
Power Status: On AC Power
Current Capacity: 77415 mWh (99.5 %)
Current Voltage: 16.720 V

Thanks @Yahooligan for such detail description. I now have a better grip on Li-ion batteries... Thankyou..
also.. Thanks everyone for detail description.

xaroc3
12-17-2011, 08:26 PM
the accidental data loss from unplugging is unarguably a good reason to leave the battery in. but i also heard it was better to be removed for heavy gaming, not only because the 95-100% charge cycles will be more frequent (decreasing battery life), but because removing the battery increases the available cooling area in the warmest area of the laptop. whether this really helps or not, i have no idea...

i also heard that the number of charge cycles on a lithium ion battery is measured by the percentage of battery that is recharged, as opposed to the number of times it is recharged. so every time a battery is topped off from 95 to 100, it counts as 5% of a cycle. doing that 20 times would count as one cycle. although that is way better than old Ni-Cd batteries, i can see how the gaming would still use up the number of cycles a lot faster than just normal laptop use, as it probably does that quite a few times in an hour or two of gaming on high settings. i suppose it also depends on your definition of normal use. :)

i do both: leave it in sometimes, take it out sometimes... i figured both have benefits, i exercise my battery every now and then.

on another note, does anyone know if removing or replacing the battery while the computer is plugged in (and on) is harmful? i know everyone would say why bother?? but im just curious. it would be easier to justify removing it if it wasnt harmful...

BrodyBoy
12-17-2011, 08:59 PM
but i also heard it was better to be removed for heavy gaming.......because removing the battery increases the available cooling area in the warmest area of the laptop. whether this really helps or not, i have no idea....

Interesting theory...I hadn't heard that reasoning before. I can see how it might impact cooling in some laptops, but I think any impact in the G74 would be minimal, at best.

There are a few holes in the G74's battery bay, which might theoretically allow a little more air movement if the battery is removed. But the battery placement in the G74 makes it largely separate from the the M/B and cooling configuration. The whole left 1/3 of the chassis (looking at it from the top) is occupied by the battery and optical drive bays, and the M/B and its cooling system occupy the rest. The battery is nowhere near the CPU or GPU.

In fact, now that I think about the layout in there......if a gamer REALLY needed to go the extra mile to maximize cooling, removing the optical drive would likely have the most impact. (This would create a sizeable "air intake" directly across the M/B.

gg31hh
12-18-2011, 08:19 AM
Interesting theory...I hadn't heard that reasoning before. I can see how it might impact cooling in some laptops, but I think any impact in the G74 would be minimal, at best.

There are a few holes in the G74's battery bay, which might theoretically allow a little more air movement if the battery is removed. But the battery placement in the G74 makes it largely separate from the the M/B and cooling configuration. The whole left 1/3 of the chassis (looking at it from the top) is occupied by the battery and optical drive bays, and the M/B and its cooling system occupy the rest. The battery is nowhere near the CPU or GPU.

In fact, now that I think about the layout in there......if a gamer REALLY needed to go the extra mile to maximize cooling, removing the optical drive would likely have the most impact. (This would create a sizeable "air intake" directly across the M/B.

Really?? Do we really need to go through such length?? - sounds kinda weird removing optical. I can see the theory behind the 'removing batteries for better cooling"

To b honest, I played Battlefield3 with Max setting and HWinfo64 sensor shows at max 71% - Sounds like still way way way way way below from any melt down

BrodyBoy
12-18-2011, 08:41 AM
Really?? Do we really need to go through such length?? - sounds kinda weird removing optical. I can see the theory behind the 'removing batteries for better cooling"

To b honest, I played Battlefield3 with Max setting and HWinfo64 sensor shows at max 71% - Sounds like still way way way way way below from any melt down
Oh no, I'm not making that argument at all. I would expect the laptop's cooling system to do its job adequately.

I was just responding to the idea of battery removal as a cooling strategy, something I'd never heard of before. Having had the G74 opened up many times, I was just randomly musing on how well I thought that might work. In the G74, the battery bay is so closed off from the heat-producing components that I don't think it'd make a difference. The optical bay, on the other hand, isn't "walled" off like that....so removing it creates a pretty big air chute straight to the M/B.

xaroc3
12-18-2011, 04:14 PM
Does anyone know if removing the battery while it's plugged in and running is harmful?

JRd1st
12-18-2011, 04:17 PM
Probably not a good idea. You may draw sparks since there is power going to a charging battery. You could damage the connectors.

Do that when the adapter is disconnected and the notebook is off.

diggtwitter
06-05-2012, 05:07 AM
1. Avoid frequent full discharging of laptop batteries
Unlike older types of batteries, Li-Ion batteries do not need regular complete discharges before recharging. In fact regularly discharging batteries would damage Li-Ion batteries and result in loss of capacity. Partial recharging is actually better as less charge capacity per cycle is lost. It is recommended that we charge at a 10% to 20% level.

2. Calibrate Your Laptop/Notebook Battery
Sometimes youíll notice your battery isnít charging up to 100%. It may charge only up to 80% to 99% of its gauge and then stop charging. This is an indication that you need to calibrate your battery to maintain its gauge accuracy.
To calibrate your battery just consume the battery power until the computer cuts off the power or automatically shuts down or sleeps. After that you can then fully recharge it up to 100%.
Itís recommended that you calibrate your asus G74SX battery (http://www.laptopbatteryretail.com/asus-g74sx-battery.html) after every 30 partial charges.

3. Consider removing the battery from the Laptop/Notebook
When youíre on A/C power most of the time, you should consider removing your battery from the laptop or notebook. By removing the battery and just running it purely in A/C power, you get two benefits.
First, you preserve the charge cycles of your battery. If the battery isnít inserted in your laptop, you are sure that it isnít charging (or trickle charging) and consuming charging cycles from your laptop battery.
Second, the asus G74SX Battery (http://www.battery-center.net/asus-g74sx-battery.html)ís temperature is lower as it receives less heat (heat from the laptop, and heat from the charging). Lower temperatures slow down the abovementioned aging (or deterioration) of the battery making it good for the battery.
Itís recommended that the notebook battery is charged to 40% if you do plan to remove it from the laptop and store it for a long time.
This is my most used technique in trying to prolong my laptop batteryís life as I always connect my laptop in A/C power. I always carry my laptopís power adaptor and the places I go always have a power socket. You should assess if removing the battery is really feasible for you.
You can also store the laptop battery in the refrigerator (not in the freezer!) if you do remove it from your notebook. This would really protect the laptop battery from heat. Always put it in a sealed plastic bag when you put it in the refrigerator to keep the moisture out. Remember to let it warm to room temperature before using or recharging it.

brecker
06-05-2012, 06:42 AM
3. Consider removing the battery from the Laptop/Notebook
When you’re on A/C power most of the time, you should consider removing your battery from the laptop or notebook. By removing the battery and just running it purely in A/C power, you get two benefits.
First, you preserve the charge cycles of your battery. If the battery isn’t inserted in your laptop, you are sure that it isn’t charging (or trickle charging) and consuming charging cycles from your laptop battery.
Second, the asus G74SX Battery (http://www.battery-center.net/asus-g74sx-battery.html)’s temperature is lower as it receives less heat (heat from the laptop, and heat from the charging). Lower temperatures slow down the abovementioned aging (or deterioration) of the battery making it good for the battery.
It’s recommended that the notebook battery is charged to 40% if you do plan to remove it from the laptop and store it for a long time.
This is my most used technique in trying to prolong my laptop battery’s life as I always connect my laptop in A/C power. I always carry my laptop’s power adaptor and the places I go always have a power socket. You should assess if removing the battery is really feasible for you.
You can also store the laptop battery in the refrigerator (not in the freezer!) if you do remove it from your notebook. This would really protect the laptop battery from heat. Always put it in a sealed plastic bag when you put it in the refrigerator to keep the moisture out. Remember to let it warm to room temperature before using or recharging it.

even though this is true, if by any chance you suffer from a power spike, the charger is malfunctioning or short fused, removing the battery maximizes the chances the motherboard takes the damage directly, making possible some part of it burns... most likely it will be just a diode placed near the charger...

if the battery is plugged in when any of those things happen, it will absorbe that damage, reducing the battery life, but protecting everything else... i wouldn't suggest removing it to preserve its life... its just a battery, its meant to be used for some time, and when it dies you can still use the notebook, order a replacement that costs 30~50 usd? and stop worrying about it... if the mother gets damaged you will be forced to repair it to keep using it, and if you don't have the skills to fix it yourself i'm pretty sure they will charge you more than the price of a new battery for fixing it... they may even take advantage of the situation and try to sell you a whole new mother...

i personally think its better to keep the battery on for safety... screw its life... when its dying just get a new one...

Peregrine
06-05-2012, 02:36 PM
I agree with Brecker. Screw its life. That's why they are replaceable.

Most batteries start to degrade after a year. By 2 years it's about time to replace. No amount of charging or discharging changes this equation. IMO, of course. I support 50+ laptops at my job and have seen this again and again.