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Edweird
01-07-2015, 12:44 AM
WARNING! Image Heavy!

Hey, everyone.

I recently purchased this beauty of a machine - a G751JY. (i7-4710HQ, GTX980M, 8GB DDR3L, BIOS 205)
After rummaging around the forums and with you guys' help (thanks to ASUS Support as well) I have managed (for now) to get some extra juice out of the already almost unnecessarily powerful 980M using GPU Tweak for Graphics Cards with the 344.75 drivers.

Yay! This is just the +135Hz standard overclock and the memory running at 6000MHz effective. I haven't seen if it would go up but from what I've seen I should be able to hit 6400MHz no problem.

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So that being done, I think it's appropriate to talk about the CPU...
Especially considering that I can imagine a fair few circumstances where the CPU would hold down this beastly GPU.

So, what does HWINFO86 tell my uneducated mind about this processor:

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Okay, so I did some basic research and from I understand, this information tells us that this CPU can take 2 extra frequency multipliers - so technically, I should be able to get a free 200MHz overclock! That is significant on a mobile machine with the thermal headroom and the G751 is definitely that.

Okay, so I loaded up Intel Extreme Tuning Utility and noticed that the clock multiplier can be pulled up but only by a factor of 1...huh. Okay so our new multis are 36-35-34-34 and a cache multiplier of 36. (Worth noting that I'm a complete noob when it comes to overclocking.)

So I applied the settings and ran a benchmark to see what would happen.

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Odd... the CPU hit 3.4GHz only once for a split second. I determined that, obviously, XTU stresses all 4 cores for this benchmark.
Looking down we can see something more odd - the CPU is being starved for current by XTU! I guess this is how XTU stresses the chip? I truly have no clue. However, my non-OC brain thinks that XTU does this to determine how effective the CPU is at blasting calculations when deprived of "food", which WOULD explain the lower clocks.

Moving on - I loaded up ThrottleStop because of its simple and effective threaded benchmark so that I could test individual cores.

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This time, there is no throttling of any kind. We see that a single threaded test mostly works the CPU to about 3.4GHz, rarely peaking to 3.5GHz. XTU reports only 1 core being active. This is very odd. So we've set the multiplier to 36 for 1 core, the CPU has enough current but it barely makes 3.5GHz? Throughout my testing I have never seen this CPU go above 3.5GHz.

Next, 2 threads.

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Hmm...same results. The CPU peaked at just over 3.5GHz - but this is expected as our 2-core multiplier is set to 35. But it rarely reached that speed. XTU jumped between 1 and 2 cores.

A solid 3.4GHz for 4 threads for a multiplier of 34 for 4 cores active.

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Okay, so let's look at the benchmark results.
Again, we can see here that XTU starves the CPU of current and the CPU struggles to keep up at 3.1GHz.

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The result:

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No idea how this stacks up.

Now with the tweaked multipliers:

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Throttling again, but this time it's a steady 3.3GHz.

Results:

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...What? Same results? What's happening?

This is where I am stuck. First, as I understand it, the CPU should be able to do 3.7GHz. Second, it doesn't even do 3.6GHz through XTU. This is where I'm hoping some OC savvy people will jump in. Do I need to tweak something else to get an actual overclock out of this CPU? Could it be that ASUS has changed how the CPU behaves and limited the multipliers through the 205 BIOS release? And I'm not liking the dips on that blue curve down in the left corner...

Any and all feedback on the process and any discussion is welcomed and encouraged!

cablebandit
01-07-2015, 02:20 PM
sorry to not offer any help but are you using the 344.xx nvidia drivers becuase of the overclocking capability? I ask because i am using the newest drivers and now evga precision doesnt work and crashes

Edweird
01-07-2015, 02:53 PM
sorry to not offer any help but are you using the 344.xx nvidia drivers becuase of the overclocking capability? I ask because i am using the newest drivers and now evga precision doesnt work and crashes

Yes, the solution is to go back to 344.75/80, as suggested by hmscott. This got GPU Tweak working for me.

cablebandit
01-07-2015, 02:58 PM
Yes, the solution is to go back to 344.75/80, as suggested by hmscott. This got GPU Tweak working for me.

thanks! I just downgraded drivers to 344.75 and now gpu tweak is working :)

NitroX
01-07-2015, 04:17 PM
You could change the refference clock if you want to really OC the CPU, though I wouldn't suggest it because the CPU will go even hotter. Intel XTU doesn't really stress de CPU to produce much heat, but if you will do a Prime95 test or a gaming test, in a demanding game, you will see that your CPU at normal clocks will reach 80-85 C. This is because the fans don't go on full speed when the hardware needs more cooling. This is already a known issue (if I may say so) and it is discussed in more threads around this section on the forum.
2nd: I really suggest you to be careful with this OC adventure that you started because OC-ing the GPU or CPU could void your warranty if the hardware gets damaged in the process.

Tbh I never felt that the CPU has bottlenecked my GPU until now. And I mostly play AC Unity which is a very demanding game on both GPU and GPU. So, at the moment I'm running my CPU with x35, x34, x33, x33 clocks and an Undervolt mode which reduced the heat generated by the CPU with about 5-6 C. I may try to see if the CPU could do a x36 on all 4 cores if ASUS will provide us an update for the fans rpm profiles just to be sure it doesn't melt down :)).

Edweird
01-07-2015, 05:13 PM
You could change the refference clock if you want to really OC the CPU, though I wouldn't suggest it because the CPU will go even hotter. Intel XTU doesn't really stress de CPU to produce much heat, but if you will do a Prime95 test or a gaming test, in a demanding game, you will see that your CPU at normal clocks will reach 80-85 C. This is because the fans don't go on full speed when the hardware needs more cooling. This is already a known issue (if I may say so) and it is discussed in more threads around this section on the forum.
2nd: I really suggest you to be careful with this OC adventure that you started because OC-ing the GPU or CPU could void your warranty if the hardware gets damaged in the process.

Tbh I never felt that the CPU has bottlenecked my GPU until now. And I mostly play AC Unity which is a very demanding game on both GPU and GPU. So, at the moment I'm running my CPU with x35, x34, x33, x33 clocks and an Undervolt mode which reduced the heat generated by the CPU with about 5-6 C. I may try to see if the CPU could do a x36 on all 4 cores if ASUS will provide us an update for the fans rpm profiles just to be sure it doesn't melt down :)).

Under heavy gaming loads (Planetside 2 which sucks the life out of CPUs) I've seen it only go up to 78 degrees.
GPU Tweak only allows a +135Hz boost and I'm not gonna touch voltage. Moving the reference clock slider beyond 100MHz crashes the laptop and I know it to be a pretty daft idea in general. I'm not trying to do anything silly with this - I'm just tryig to bring the CPU to it's actual design performance levels and for some reason the laptop just won't let me have that - which makes no sense considering XTU comes shipped with these and it doesn't seem to be working right. It's only for CPU intensive games that I actually want to see what the CPU can actually pull out. Newer games are going to be using DX12 APIs etc to make better use of the ridiculous performance of the Maxwell GPUs anyways - I just want to learn how this baby works.

Also, I'd say the fans are actually going full speed on mine. Laptop came shipped with BIOS ver.205.
Even 80-85 degrees are not dangerous temps considering thermal throttling starts in mid-90s.

For this CPU it looks like -50mV voltage offset is ideal.

NitroX
01-07-2015, 06:30 PM
I'm on maximum offset voltage for both Dynamic and Cache and I didn't get any BSOD's by now (7days+ of use). I don't know about your machine, but I do know that the maximum rpm is about 4100/4200rpm and mine only goes as far as 3100rpm when I have 90+C on the CPU. Could you tell me how high your RPM goes at 80-85C ?

Also, I didn't know about the crashes from the reference clock. I never tried modifying it.

HulkSmash
01-07-2015, 07:28 PM
I'm doing everything I can to maintain a long lifespam on this machine. I did overclock my 970m to 135+ core, 280+ mem, but I did so because the temps are still great, roams around 68C during heavy gaming. However the CPU does get a bit hot at times, I've seen it reach 85C, not constant, but It's been there. NitroX I saw you happened to undervolt your CPU and got a few degrees down. Won't you be losing some performance by doing so, and if you do is it negligible? Also, how would I go about that, just tweak the settings on XTU?

NitroX
01-07-2015, 07:40 PM
Nope, you won't lose any performance. The CPU will still be running at the corresponding frequencies just that it will run on lower voltages = lower heat. The only problem is how much your CPU will let you undervolt it because at some certain point it may cause stability issues (BSODs of PC restarts). It's probably the best thing that you can do on a mobile device in order to increase it's life span and runtime on battery (though the runtime isn't quite noticeable on laptops, more on smartphones).
You can see more details about how I did my undervolting along with the original tips from HMScott, over here:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?52467-Got-your-new-G751JY-G751JT-G751JM-Post-your-review-temps-benchmark-results!&p=461645&viewfull=1#post461645

HulkSmash
01-07-2015, 08:00 PM
Nope, you won't lose any performance. The CPU will still be running at the corresponding frequencies just that it will run on lower voltages = lower heat. The only problem is how much your CPU will let you undervolt it because at some certain point it may cause stability issues (BSODs of PC restarts). It's probably the best thing that you can do on a mobile device in order to increase it's life span and runtime on battery (though the runtime isn't quite noticeable on laptops, more on smartphones).
You can see more details about how I did my undervolting along with the original tips from HMScott, over here:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?52467-Got-your-new-G751JY-G751JT-G751JM-Post-your-review-temps-benchmark-results!&p=461645&viewfull=1#post461645
Much appreciated!

Edweird
01-07-2015, 09:22 PM
Huh...I've been running Prime95 for half an hour and have never gone above 72 degrees. The fan is going at 2600RPM at this temp.

This is on the Blend setting, though. The heat one gets it to about 80 degrees - it hits 3000RPM there.

This is with a -50mV undervolt.

NitroX
01-07-2015, 09:31 PM
Strangely, you have the best temps I've heard until now. What model do you say you have ?

Edweird
01-07-2015, 09:43 PM
G751JY-T7065D.
It's marketed for Romania/Bulgaria.
Came stock with 205 BIOS.
Also, it only hit that 80 degrees for a couple of seconds and only on 2 cores. Before that number appeared it was running at ~2600RPM.

Here's a shot of it running Prime95 Blend. This is before the -50mV.
If you look closely, core number 3 and the cache actually hit 3.6Ghz!

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Edweird
01-08-2015, 12:35 AM
Update: For some reason my High Performance plan had minimum CPU state set to 5%. Setting this to 100% allowed all 4 cores and cache to hit 3.6GHz but it wouldn't do it freely like it does with 3.5GHz. This was using things like Prime95. A 45-minute session of Planetside 2 showed me being capped by CPU but none of the cores reached 3.6GHz in that time. GPU is set at 1261MHz and 6GHz memory clock.

CPU was at 72 max, GPU was at 71 max. Average FPS was ~60.

NitroX
01-08-2015, 12:57 PM
Well, It seems that you've got yourself one hell of a laptop. It's the coolest one I've seen by now. I'm actually from Romania and I have the T7015D model (this is the cheapest one with Gtx980m) and my CPU temps tend to go much higher on stock voltage.

Exostenza
01-08-2015, 01:23 PM
Regarding the CPU overclock you can check out my thread here (http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53249-PSA-G751-203-BIOS-limits-max-turbo-boost-from-35x-to-34x) which has some information for you.

Edweird
01-08-2015, 03:51 PM
Regarding the CPU overclock you can check out my thread here (http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53249-PSA-G751-203-BIOS-limits-max-turbo-boost-from-35x-to-34x) which has some information for you.

Thanks, I have already read through that thread. I understand that newer BIOS cause issues - I'm trying to figure out why the CPU wont hit 3.6GHz. It does do 34x for 3 and 4 cores, though - but 0 performance increase!

Edweird
01-08-2015, 05:02 PM
Well, It seems that you've got yourself one hell of a laptop. It's the coolest one I've seen by now. I'm actually from Romania and I have the T7015D model (this is the cheapest one with Gtx980m) and my CPU temps tend to go much higher on stock voltage.

Interesting...
The JT models that come with the 970 are T7009, T7010, T7012 and T7019 here. The cheapest 980 is this one, the T7065 and it is also the only one. The T7064 is the one with the 4860 CPU. I wonder if there is a correlation between performance/quality and these numbers. Perhaps there are subtle changes in the designs that would account for the differences we're seeing. Also, my G751 is the only one I've heard of coming factory sealed with 205 BIOS, which means it was built at the very least at the end of November.

EDIT: I checked the bottom and this machine was built this December. Could explain the decent sound quality im getting as well.

hmscott
01-08-2015, 07:45 PM
Thanks, I have already read through that thread. I understand that newer BIOS cause issues - I'm trying to figure out why the CPU wont hit 3.6GHz. It does do 34x for 3 and 4 cores, though - but 0 performance increase!

Edweird, when testing XTU CPU improvements, don't rely on the XTU benchmark - if you look at the XTU usage graph you will see the test isn't a constant load, it is modulated / pulsed, so any change is going to get lost in that variance.

You should try some CPU benchmarks like Cinebench, or what ever other PCmark type Sandra, etc tool that focuses on CPU results. FPS in games may show a small increase - but the GPU tuning will show more - so focus on benchmarks that will use 1, 2,3,4 threads so you can see the improvement from single threaded and multi-threaded results.

It is about a 10% improvement for me, with a different CPU.

Unfortunately the Asus G751 BIOS update have de-tuned the top potential multiplier by 1x, so you won't see the max capable from your CPU. Complain to Asus via their Technical Inquiry and Feedback channels, and ask for a new BIOS with the full multiplier available. Asus is shipping Intel XTU with the OS, so they should expect people to be aware of the 1x reduction.

For games, get Asus GPU Tweak tool for Graphics cards (G751JT/JY) and increase the GPU +135 and the GPU memory for what you particular card will run stably and that is where the most measurable benefit will be for games - high CPU usage games will benefit from the CPU increase as well.

For now, just flip the sliders up to max available for cores and cache, and enjoy the most CPU performance available for your laptop. :)

Edweird
01-08-2015, 08:34 PM
Edweird, when testing XTU CPU improvements, don't rely on the XTU benchmark - if you look at the XTU usage graph you will see the test isn't a constant load, it is modulated / pulsed, so any change is going to get lost in that variance.

You should try some CPU benchmarks like Cinebench, or what ever other PCmark type Sandra, etc tool that focuses on CPU results. FPS in games may show a small increase - but the GPU tuning will show more - so focus on benchmarks that will use 1, 2,3,4 threads so you can see the improvement from single threaded and multi-threaded results.

It is about a 10% improvement for me, with a different CPU.

Unfortunately the Asus G751 BIOS update have de-tuned the top potential multiplier by 1x, so you won't see the max capable from your CPU. Complain to Asus via their Technical Inquiry and Feedback channels, and ask for a new BIOS with the full multiplier available. Asus is shipping Intel XTU with the OS, so they should expect people to be aware of the 1x reduction.

For games, get Asus GPU Tweak tool for Graphics cards (G751JT/JY) and increase the GPU +135 and the GPU memory for what you particular card will run stably and that is where the most measurable benefit will be for games - high CPU usage games will benefit from the CPU increase as well.

For now, just flip the sliders up to max available for cores and cache, and enjoy the most CPU performance available for your laptop. :)

Yeah, I assumed that XTU wasn't giving me the right results but I wasn't sure because I've seen bench results from XTU for this CPU that are 200, 300 points higher. You may have noticed in several topics that I have already posted about me using GPU Tweak with success - it's the first thing in this topic's OP. :D

Also, I increased max TDPs to 50W and 60W accordingly. I'm still not seeing frequent use of the 36x multiplier, though. Successful undervolt at -90mV.

hmscott
01-08-2015, 08:48 PM
Yeah, I assumed that XTU wasn't giving me the right results but I wasn't sure because I've seen bench results from XTU for this CPU that are 200, 300 points higher. You may have noticed in several topics that I have already posted about me using GPU Tweak with success - it's the first thing in this topic's OP. :D

Also, I increased max TDPs to 50W and 60W accordingly. I'm still not seeing frequent use of the 36x multiplier, though. Successful undervolt at -90mV.

Edweird, you didn't say how you came to the conclusion that the XTU changes weren't having an effect, I was trying to put in perspective that against FPS improvements, GPU tweaking will be noticeable, but XTU tweaking requires other benchmarks to see the improvement.

XTU isn't a reliable test - many have widely different results even when they should have the same - I have told people to not waste their time on XTU as a benchmarking tool because of this - don't sweat it.

If you are sliding up the settings, Applying them, and saving them as a profile that loads ok at boot, that is all I would use XTU to accomplish.

A parameter change is a parameter change. If you have set your Power Plan to High Performance, CPU 100%/100%, and run 1, 2, 3, 4 threaded tests to see the speed/x settings during load, that's all that matters. It is up to the individual application to use it effectively :)

What are you using to benchmark the before / after settings for XTU, to see the difference?

Edweird
01-08-2015, 09:40 PM
Edweird, you didn't say how you came to the conclusion that the XTU changes weren't having an effect, I was trying to put in perspective that against FPS improvements, GPU tweaking will be noticeable, but XTU tweaking requires other benchmarks to see the improvement, as even

XTU isn't a reliable test - many have widely different results even when they should have the same - I have told people to not waste their time on XTU as a benchmarking tool because of this - don't sweat it.

If you are sliding up the settings, Applying them, and saving them as a profile that loads ok at boot, that is all I would use XTU to accomplish.

A parameter change is a parameter change. If you have set your Power Plan to High Performance, CPU 100%/100%, and run 1, 2, 3, 4 threaded tests to see the speed/x settings during load, that's all that matters. It is up to the individual application to use it effectively :)

What are you using to benchmark the before / after settings for XTU, to see the difference?

Oh, by results I meant the actual score it's been giving me. I wasn't aware it was a non-effective benchmark before this because, as I said, other people with the same CPU have gotten much better XTU benchmark scores - so my ignorant and uneducated self assumed that there was something I could do within XTU to achieve those scores since there isn't much else you could do with these CPUs - and there were a significant number of people with those results that I would think it wasn't something more complicated like custom BIOS modding etc. (But to be fair, I've actually done a BIOS mod for my old N61Ja to enable hidden options in the BIOS screen.)

I will try Cinebench now. I was just using Prime95 and such to stress the CPU to see if it will hit the 36x and since it wasn't I assumed XTU was to blame. Everything you say makes complete sense, of course - I wasn't expecting anything more than these simple boosts from XTU but when a CPU heavy game that is actually FPS limited by the CPU such as Planetside 2 isn't making the CPU hit 36x it understandibly has me confused. Obviously what could be happening is the game never actually using just the single core - I know full well that game loves i7s for the core count.

Silly me! Will post results soon with appropriate XTU settings.

Oh, and since I've messed around with the power profiles, the CPU seems to now be hitting 3.6GHz basically at idle \o/

Edweird
01-08-2015, 10:31 PM
Okay, Cinebench results:
Stock CPU score: 632cb (99.6% ref. match)
Single Core score: 126cb (MP 5.01x)
GPU score: 94.26fps

Multipliers set to 36x, TDP to 50W and 60W.
CPU score: 648cb (VERY close to i7-3770)
Single Core score: 130cb (never hit 3.6GHz)

Turbo Boost Power Time set to 96 seconds.
CPU score: 652cb
Single Core score: 130cb (all cores hit 3.6GHz at least once)
GPU Score: ~90fps (it actually went down...)

Max CPU Temp: 67
Max GPU Temp: 48 (lolwat)
Stock GPU score: 86.6fps (looks like Cinebench doesn't get you much of a difference - GPU usage topped out at 56%)

Final Cinebench results for CPU:
632 -> 652
126 -> 130

3% performance boost for 3% higher frequency.

Boom_austin
01-08-2015, 10:42 PM
i have something to add in here if it hasnt already been said. the gpu and cpu seem to be either near each other or thermally connected because if you run just a cpu benchmark your temps will be in the 80s on stock clocks. buy you will also see the gpu temp rise when its doing nothing. so the best way to see your max temps is run somethin that will stress both gpu and gpu.

as for mine i was having overheating issues (cpu would thermal throttle 93c temps) and i aint having none of that. so what i did first was i underclocked my cpu. core to -90 and cache to -100. then i went into the clocks and when 3 cores are being used and when 4 are. i lowered the multiplier on the 2 of those by one and boom hugeeee help with my thermal maxs i think the highest i ever saw was an 89c but i was also covering the rear vents some to really get those temps up to see if it could cool itself off liek it couldnt before. and successs no thermal throttle and much better and in my opinion safer temps :)

hmscott
01-08-2015, 11:33 PM
Edweird, getting closer to understanding what is going on?

The CPU is rarely single-threaded, so 3.6 isn't going to be seen often, or long if the power window is low at 8 seconds. But, the 2 core, 3 core, and 4 core numbers will be seen more often and also run longer with the Window extended, as you saw.

It is more than 3% real improvement, that benchmark just didn't show it, find one that will.

From 3.2ghz to 3.4ghz there is about a 6% improvement possible, but that can be the difference between higher scores in things that matter. There have been rendering tests that gave a 10% improvement, so if you are turning over 1 extra job a day due to the improvement, it is worth it to some.

And, it doesn't cost anything.

It isn't an OC like you would do on a desktop computer, but it is the best you can have on the laptop, so why not do it?

Getting a handle on what is going on on your laptop is worth the effort alone. :)

BigDRim
01-09-2015, 04:30 PM
So set max multipliers for cache and all cores won't be harmful?

hmscott
01-09-2015, 04:49 PM
So set max multipliers for cache and all cores won't be harmful?

BigDRim, it will work fine. Unless you run batch jobs, rendering, or some other long running 100% CPU program that also heats up the GPU, you don't need to worry about it.

If you run those programs, watch the temperatures for Thermal Throttling with hwinfo64.

If you aren't Thermal Throttling there is no reason to decrease the multipliers from Maximum for 3/4 cores at a time, and you can keep all 4 cores at a time setting to maximum.

CPU cache can always run at maximum.

BigDRim
01-09-2015, 06:06 PM
Ok thanks!

ArthurV
04-24-2015, 09:27 PM
Has anyone tried to overclock the i7-4860HQ which is G751JY-DH72X equipped with?

NitroX
04-25-2015, 07:35 AM
Has anyone tried to overclock the i7-4860HQ which is G751JY-DH72X equipped with?

I saw people underclocking the i7-4860 due to thermal issues but I did not see anyone eager to go for an overclock to the CPU. And why the hassle ? Its not like the CPU can't handle anything that you throw at it at the moment. My i7-4710 works damn well with a downclock to x33/x33/x32/x32 and I can't notice any drop in performance. On the other hand, I did notice a great improvement in temperature as it stays in mid 70s and peaks only at 80C.

Overclocking the CPU is quite a risky one in my opinion. You should do many tests in order to see how far does the temperature go with the default clocks. Check the average and maximum in games and apps that are demanding high CPU usage. After that, if the temps are okay with the default settings, you could try to go for a CPU Overclock. But, the CPU can't be overclocked easily as Intel XTU doesn't allow you to change the BUS Frequency from 100Mhz. At least this is what I have heard. The only thing that you can do with Intel XTU is to raise the clocks at much as you can, but that will win you a maximum of +100 or +200Mhz from default clocks. This means that it might be necessary to use other software, potentially dangerous or you might even be forced to make some BIOS changes in order to be able to OC the CPU even further.

All in all, I consider it a time consuming operation, dangerous, and with possible poor results.

joshindaphils
04-25-2015, 11:20 AM
i have something to add in here if it hasnt already been said. the gpu and cpu seem to be either near each other or thermally connected because if you run just a cpu benchmark your temps will be in the 80s on stock clocks. buy you will also see the gpu temp rise when its doing nothing. so the best way to see your max temps is run somethin that will stress both gpu and gpu.

as for mine i was having overheating issues (cpu would thermal throttle 93c temps) and i aint having none of that. so what i did first was i underclocked my cpu. core to -90 and cache to -100. then i went into the clocks and when 3 cores are being used and when 4 are. i lowered the multiplier on the 2 of those by one and boom hugeeee help with my thermal maxs i think the highest i ever saw was an 89c but i was also covering the rear vents some to really get those temps up to see if it could cool itself off liek it couldnt before. and successs no thermal throttle and much better and in my opinion safer temps :)

They are most definitaly thermally connected. In fact the CPU temp will follow GPU temps very closly on low CPU load, and will always be higher than the GPU temp on moderate to high loads... Of the 6 heatpipes used for cooling 5 of them are used to cool the GPU, 2 of those shared with the CPU.

You can see pics of the heatpipe asymbly over here (scroll down aways): https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?59354-G751JY-Disassembly-Pics

hmscott
04-25-2015, 10:19 PM
I saw people underclocking the i7-4860 due to thermal issues but I did not see anyone eager to go for an overclock to the CPU. And why the hassle ? Its not like the CPU can't handle anything that you throw at it at the moment. My i7-4710 works damn well with a downclock to x33/x33/x32/x32 and I can't notice any drop in performance. On the other hand, I did notice a great improvement in temperature as it stays in mid 70s and peaks only at 80C.

Overclocking the CPU is quite a risky one in my opinion. You should do many tests in order to see how far does the temperature go with the default clocks. Check the average and maximum in games and apps that are demanding high CPU usage. After that, if the temps are okay with the default settings, you could try to go for a CPU Overclock. But, the CPU can't be overclocked easily as Intel XTU doesn't allow you to change the BUS Frequency from 100Mhz. At least this is what I have heard. The only thing that you can do with Intel XTU is to raise the clocks at much as you can, but that will win you a maximum of +100 or +200Mhz from default clocks. This means that it might be necessary to use other software, potentially dangerous or you might even be forced to make some BIOS changes in order to be able to OC the CPU even further.

All in all, I consider it a time consuming operation, dangerous, and with possible poor results.

NitroX, you have a number of misunderstandings going on in regards to XTU and "OC'ing" for the mobile Haswell.

There is no danger, first of all. There is really no OC involved - at least not what you are trying to express.

XTU only lets you unlock the multipliers to run at maximum. Intel ships the CPU slightly de-tuned, reduced multipliers, because they can't count on the best cooling being available in every installation.

The G750/G751 has great cooling so Intel provides their Exterme Tuning Utility - XTU - to allow users to increase the multipliers to their design maximums. This isn't overclocking, this is configuring the CPU to use the intended performance in an environment that supports it.

It isn't time consuming, you install the Intel XTU app, open it up to the Controls tab, and slide the multiplier slider up to the maximum setting. You don't play with the clock settings, only the multiplier.

It takes 10 minutes to install, set the settings, Apply them, Save them to a Profile that will load each time the system starts. There is nothing else to do to increase the performance.

My i7-4700HQ lets me increase the multipliers for all 4 cores, and the CPU cache, to Cores 36x, 35x, 34x, 34x and Cache 36x.

It isn't a huge increase, but it is noticeable in every day use, and in benchmarks. For long running rendering or compute jobs, the effect is very noticeable in reduced run times.

This CPU performance increase also helps increase the FPS results when unlocking the clocks for the GPU with Asus Tweak Tool for Graphics cards for then G750JW/JX/JH + G751JL/JT/JT and using MSI Afterburner with the G750JM/JS/JZ/JY + G751JM.

Where did you see underclocking for the 4860? Was that on an Asus laptop, or an Alienware/MSI - those laptops can't handle the heat - so underclocking is what they do, we don't need to do that with the G750/G751.

You don't need to underclock your CPU on the i7-4710 - why do you do that? You can let the laptop control the heat itself, you don't need to help it along - it's not necessary.

For those that have long running rendering batch jobs, or other 100% CPU/GPU work, they can drop the multiplier on Cores 3/4 until CPU Thermal Throttling is stopped - but if they aren't getting Thermal Throttling then there is no reason to do it.

The CPU will downclock itself from Maximum turbo after a designated time period, and will reduce performance if the Power load is exceeded, and it will Thermally Throttle if the CPU gets above 93c for an extended time - it drastically downclocks in that situation so you want to stop the CPU from hitting Thermal Throttling.

Your settings 33/x33/x32/x32 are way too low, given your 4710 has even higher multipliers than my 4700, you are throwing away performance, whether you notice it or not, for no good reason - are you Thermally Throttling? Do you run long 100% CPU/GPU performance runs? If not you can go back and set XTU multiplier sliders up all the way :)

There have been lots and lots and lots of people that use XTU to set maximum multipliers, and use Asus Tweak Tool / MSI Afterburner to get maximum performance available from their laptop. And there are no reports of failures. I have been doing real OC'ing for many years, and have never lost a GPU/CPU to OC'ing. These are tools / api's provided by the CPU and GPU makers for the vendors and users to get the best performance from their computers.

Don't worry, performance tune for maximum performance, and be happy :)

hmscott
04-25-2015, 10:44 PM
NitroX, there is one thing you can do to reduce heat and keep the same, or very very close to the same performance. And, that is to stop using the Hyper-threaded cores :)

I have helped guys out that are trying to reduce their temps in CS:GO, which uses all the CPU available, but showing them how to use Processor Affinity in the Windows Task manager to disable the "Odd numbered cores", which equate to the hyper-threaded cores.

Their performance didn't drop, and the temperature went way down.

G750JM high temperature on CS:GO
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?50742-G750JM-high-temperature-on-CS-GO&p=429501&viewfull=1#post429501

Also, I just recently saw a video that compared gaming performance across many different configurations of enable Cores in CPU's. The dual core isn't enough, but the difference between 4 Core and 4 Core + hyperthreading was minimal, and for most games the 6/8 core (real core not + hyperthreaded cores) wasn't appreciably better.

CPU Cores for Gaming: How many do you need? - Q1 2015 Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVl8Eupbr_E

So, if you want full performance, and reduced heat, it looks like you can slide up the multipliers to maximum, and tune the apps to not use Hyper-threaded cores for low temps :)

diogogmaio
04-27-2015, 01:02 PM
Guys a quick question...

You made an awesome thread with so many info for new and expert g751jy users. Can u summarize the main achievements of this thread? For example...

---> Last driver that "safely" enables OC in gtx 980m from g751jy?? Because the newest driver crashes so many times with any overclock (my case)

---> What are the values in GPU tweak / msi afterburner to overclock the gpu? only a basic OC not extreme. Please give us some ranges.

---> In the XTU app where we change the values of the multiplier?

---> what's the best or the standard OC that we can apply in the CPU multiplier?! 1x, 2x or something else?

Thanks

NitroX
04-28-2015, 06:01 PM
@Hmscott: I wasn't talking about XTU for OC-ing . I know that XTU keeps the multipliers and frequency between safe limits, this is why I have told him that for a further OC (more than what XTU offers) he might need to find a way to unlock the bios and make an overclock from there by changing the frequency of the multipliers. This is why I said that it is a time consuming and dangerous intervention, just for the sake of getting some more juice out of the CPU. It would be damn nice to see our CPU's reach 4Ghz but I don't think that anyone would be eager to go that far and risk a burned CPU or voided warranty.

As for the CPU performance, I don't feel like I'm wasting the performance. I seriously don't feel the performance hit with those clocks. On the other side, I do not like the high temperature that the CPU builds up with the default or maximum multipliers. I already said, my temperatures in AC Unity and Crysis 3 were going way up into the 90s with the multipliers on max and default fan profile. That was not too comfortable for me because: 1) I wasn't feeling good about the high temp, as I was used to see 80C max on the G75VW, 2) It was dissipating too much heat into the room and my temperature was raising like with like 3-4C ... Yes, I have quite a small room.

I already said that it might be a problem with the paste, but until I am going to call the service for a clean+repaste I have to handle the heat myself. It might sound like I am paranoid but I'm feeling quite comfortable with the settings I'm using right now. To be honest, I didn't even made a real comparison test between these settings and the maximum ones in any game but I will try to make one as soon as I will have some free time. Just to see if there really is a performance hit. But I do not expect to find anything serious. Maybe something around 2-3 FPS.

The facts that I am relying on are the CPU Core Usages showed by MSI Afterburner. When I saw the high temps in AC Unity I also checked the CPU Usage which was around 70% average and 80%max (and we are talking about a CPU power hungry game). Now, when I saw the usage I thought that "Hmm, now that's a waste of power", so I considered that lowering the clocks a bit will not affect the performance because the CPU had more than 20% room to reduce the clocks. After doing that, I was getting higher CPU Core Usages with like 5-7% but considerably lower temps. The frames looked the same for me, but as I said, there might have been a minor difference of 2-3FPS.
For Crysis 3 I don't even need to make a performance test, since the CPU Core Usages were like 50% so the CPU had enough room to lower the clocks.

I'm sorry if I am a bit hard headed but this is how my engineer brain told me it is right :)). I may be wrong with my analogy but it seemed okay to lower the power consumption since the power wasn't being used efficiently (thus resulting in the lowered temps).

I do agree that the thing with the Hyperthreaded cores does sound interesting and I will try to use it after I throw an eye on the thread you have linked here.

Thank you for your concern, and I am sorry if I misinformed someone over here. I was just expressing a subjective idea, that felt right for me.

diogogmaio
05-07-2015, 04:14 PM
You made an awesome thread with so many info for new and expert g751jy users. Can u summarize the main achievements of this thread? For example...

---> Last driver that "safely" enables OC in gtx 980m from g751jy?? Because the newest driver crashes so many times with any overclock (my case)

---> What are the values in GPU tweak / msi afterburner to overclock the gpu? only a basic OC not extreme. Please give us some ranges.

AQUASTEVAE
05-08-2015, 09:35 PM
NitroX, you have a number of misunderstandings going on in regards to XTU and "OC'ing" for the mobile Haswell.

There is no danger, first of all. There is really no OC involved - at least not what you are trying to express.

XTU only lets you unlock the multipliers to run at maximum. Intel ships the CPU slightly de-tuned, reduced multipliers, because they can't count on the best cooling being available in every installation.

The G750/G751 has great cooling so Intel provides their Exterme Tuning Utility - XTU - to allow users to increase the multipliers to their design maximums. This isn't overclocking, this is configuring the CPU to use the intended performance in an environment that supports it.

It isn't time consuming, you install the Intel XTU app, open it up to the Controls tab, and slide the multiplier slider up to the maximum setting. You don't play with the clock settings, only the multiplier.

It takes 10 minutes to install, set the settings, Apply them, Save them to a Profile that will load each time the system starts. There is nothing else to do to increase the performance.

My i7-4700HQ lets me increase the multipliers for all 4 cores, and the CPU cache, to Cores 36x, 35x, 34x, 34x and Cache 36x.

It isn't a huge increase, but it is noticeable in every day use, and in benchmarks. For long running rendering or compute jobs, the effect is very noticeable in reduced run times.

This CPU performance increase also helps increase the FPS results when unlocking the clocks for the GPU with Asus Tweak Tool for Graphics cards for then G750JW/JX/JH + G751JL/JT/JT and using MSI Afterburner with the G750JM/JS/JZ/JY + G751JM.

Where did you see underclocking for the 4860? Was that on an Asus laptop, or an Alienware/MSI - those laptops can't handle the heat - so underclocking is what they do, we don't need to do that with the G750/G751.

You don't need to underclock your CPU on the i7-4710 - why do you do that? You can let the laptop control the heat itself, you don't need to help it along - it's not necessary.

For those that have long running rendering batch jobs, or other 100% CPU/GPU work, they can drop the multiplier on Cores 3/4 until CPU Thermal Throttling is stopped - but if they aren't getting Thermal Throttling then there is no reason to do it.

The CPU will downclock itself from Maximum turbo after a designated time period, and will reduce performance if the Power load is exceeded, and it will Thermally Throttle if the CPU gets above 93c for an extended time - it drastically downclocks in that situation so you want to stop the CPU from hitting Thermal Throttling.

Your settings 33/x33/x32/x32 are way too low, given your 4710 has even higher multipliers than my 4700, you are throwing away performance, whether you notice it or not, for no good reason - are you Thermally Throttling? Do you run long 100% CPU/GPU performance runs? If not you can go back and set XTU multiplier sliders up all the way :)

There have been lots and lots and lots of people that use XTU to set maximum multipliers, and use Asus Tweak Tool / MSI Afterburner to get maximum performance available from their laptop. And there are no reports of failures. I have been doing real OC'ing for many years, and have never lost a GPU/CPU to OC'ing. These are tools / api's provided by the CPU and GPU makers for the vendors and users to get the best performance from their computers.

Don't worry, performance tune for maximum performance, and be happy :)

hmscott, i have taken your advice and using etu, i have pushed my multiplyers all the way up. they now read 37x 36x 35x 35x, with a cache ratio of 37x. afterwards, i ran processor and memory stress tests, and of course both passed, with a maximum temp. at any given time during the tests of
only 76c, which only hit this a few times during the tests. so with the multiplyers at this setting, is that the maximum tuning i can do to get the best performance safely out of this processor? thanks in advance.

hmscott
05-08-2015, 10:50 PM
hmscott, i have taken your advice and using etu, i have pushed my multiplyers all the way up. they now read 37x 36x 35x 35x, with a cache ratio of 37x. afterwards, i ran processor and memory stress tests, and of course both passed, with a maximum temp. at any given time during the tests of
only 76c, which only hit this a few times during the tests. so with the multiplyers at this setting, is that the maximum tuning i can do to get the best performance safely out of this processor? thanks in advance.

AQUASTEVAE, you have a different processor, so you have more options, newer processors allow playing with the length of time for Turbo and you can increase the TDP / power allowed, but you will / may run into temperature issues.

I do know that increasing "Turbo boost Power Window" from a default of 8 seconds to the fixed setting I have of 28 seconds will increase boost time and improve performance, others have extended that time but in an ROG laptop to no apparent increase in long running thread performance - you can play around with it and increasing Turbo boost short Power Max and Turbo boost Power Max.

You will need to play with those values yourself, and when you find out the benefits / values that work for you, please post them here :)

AQUASTEVAE
05-10-2015, 10:57 PM
sorry for being ignorant here, but which settings do i use to change the thermal design power?

my highest score on etu's benchmark is 843, with a max cpu temp of 77. but i also ordered this rig with ic diamond compound on the cpu and gpu. testing the turbo setting now.

update: with the turbo boost's powermx and short powermax maxed out, and the boost window setting changed to 28 sec's, i got a benchmark score of 844, but temps went way up to 81c.

AQUASTEVAE
05-11-2015, 12:01 AM
Okay, Cinebench results:
Stock CPU score: 632cb (99.6% ref. match)
Single Core score: 126cb (MP 5.01x)
GPU score: 94.26fps

Multipliers set to 36x, TDP to 50W and 60W.
CPU score: 648cb (VERY close to i7-3770)
Single Core score: 130cb (never hit 3.6GHz)

Turbo Boost Power Time set to 96 seconds.
CPU score: 652cb
Single Core score: 130cb (all cores hit 3.6GHz at least once)
GPU Score: ~90fps (it actually went down...)

Max CPU Temp: 67
Max GPU Temp: 48 (lolwat)
Stock GPU score: 86.6fps (looks like Cinebench doesn't get you much of a difference - GPU usage topped out at 56%)

Final Cinebench results for CPU:
632 -> 652
126 -> 130

3% performance boost for 3% higher frequency.

which cinebench are you using, because i am not getting results in "cb", but points instead. so i have no idea how to translate those. i am using cinebench release 11.5.

hexaae
02-04-2016, 12:50 AM
HELP!!!

I've just tried to overclock my G751JY using Intel XTU from 100MHz core to 108.0MHz (i7 4710HQ), checked "Force Reboot" and pressed "Apply"...
From now on the PC simply doesn't boot anymore! Black screen and switches off by itself, no BIOS and nothing!!! :(

How do I reset everything to default?
I'm afraid that damn option "Force Reboot" should be renamed as "Make Permanent"... sigh...

SOLVED!
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?71728-Newbie-mistake-1-Where-is-the-G751jy-CMOS-battery-located&p=571429&viewfull=1#post571429

taylor8335
02-04-2016, 01:15 AM
any good articles on ocing on my new g751 machine, i am very new to overclocking? thanks

Mr. Matt Eastwood
11-10-2017, 04:02 PM
Hey guys! After OCing, my G751JY's CPU peaks at around 82 in The Witcher 3 and Intel Burn Test. Average temp seems to be somewhere between 75 and 80 while gaming.

In your experience, is it ok if I keep my OC setting, seeing that the peak temperatures don't seem to go past 82C?

Also, it's winter right now (I live in Montreal)... In a hot summer with 35C and high humidity, in your experience, does the CPU temp go up significantly as opposed to colder seasons?

Edweird
11-10-2017, 04:17 PM
Hey guys! After OCing, my G751JY's CPU peaks at around 82 in The Witcher 3 and Intel Burn Test. Average temp seems to be somewhere between 75 and 80 while gaming.

In your experience, is it ok if I keep my OC setting, seeing that the peak temperatures don't seem to go past 82C?

Also, it's winter right now (I live in Montreal)... In a hot summer with 35C and high humidity, in your experience, does the CPU temp go up significantly as opposed to colder seasons?

Absolutely fine, I have no idea how you get 82. Mine hit 90 with Witcher. I'd say anything between 85-90 is fine for extended gaming sessions. My G751JY is almost 3 years old now and I run it hot at near those temps every other day for hours so...do the math. Summer WILL increase your temps, but just by a few degrees. Biggest difference I've seen is maybe 5 degrees. What OC have you done? I can still only get 0.1GHz out of it with XTU.

P.S Generally not a great idea to necro a 1.5 year old thread. :)

Mr. Matt Eastwood
11-10-2017, 04:33 PM
Awesome, thanks! Yeah, that is exactly the same OC I did/was allowed to do. I undervolted core and cache to -0.050 V and set the multipliers and cache ratio to the allowed max.

I bought the laptop used a month or so ago and first thing I did, I brought it to a repair shop to have all dust cleaned out. They said there wasn't much in it, but I figured, might as well :-)

I will spend a few days playing various games, then if it's stable (which I fully expect), I'll undervolt some more. Thanks for the info!

P.S.: hehe, cool, I'll remember that :-)

Edweird
11-10-2017, 04:42 PM
Awesome, thanks! Yeah, that is exactly the same OC I did/was allowed to do. I undervolted core and cache to -0.050 V and set the multipliers and cache ratio to the allowed max.

I bought the laptop used a month or so ago and first thing I did, I brought it to a repair shop to have all dust cleaned out. They said there wasn't much in it, but I figured, might as well :-)

I will spend a few days playing various games, then if it's stable (which I fully expect), I'll undervolt some more. Thanks for the info!

P.S.: hehe, cool, I'll remember that :-)

-50 is what I use as well, has been stable for half an year with no crashes. It crashes like...once every 2 weeks at around -80.
The thermal design is quite interesting, it definitely does not collect as much dust as you might think.

Mr. Matt Eastwood
11-10-2017, 06:12 PM
Yeah, I read up a bit on it when I bought this laptop, pretty sophisticated cooling! I expect I'll be happy with this machine for a few more years to come.

HoTo
11-10-2017, 09:04 PM
Dunno... Getting pretty crappy fps in games that renders big worlds (for example PUBG), heavy for the CPU. Definitely throttled.

Might try to sell this laptop to think of other solutions sometime.