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venomous21
04-24-2015, 06:31 AM
Hello,

I searched the forums and the general consensus seems it's safe to use the power adapter with the battery removed. I had my last ac adapter plugged into a surge protector and the sucker finally gave out after about a year. I have a nice, brand new APC 700 or 800w 1080va with AVR and I'd like to plug my ac adapter into the battery backup slot (and not surge only) and remove the battery from the laptop.

I've read from several sources that plugging your laptop with battery into a battery backup outlet is a very bad idea (won't get into that here). I think the reason my ac adapter died was because there was a power event and my APC unit was going nuts, I think it was undervolting possibly (or maybe overvolting) and the ac adapter plugged into the surge only died. Everything plugged into battery backup is fine.

So my next question. I read that some thinkpads with 65w adapters actually MUST have the battery in since under high load, the 65w adapter can't provide enough power and it will pull some power from the battery as well. Does the g750JX ever do this or is it completely safe to plug it into the APC UPS with the laptop battery removed?

How would I get an official answer from ASUS? I'm about 95% certain it's ok but really can't afford to damage (or slowly damage the laptop over time due to making a mistake here). Obviously, other things can and will damage it but I'd like to make the right decision in this case and hopefully preserve this adapter longer than the first.

Thank you!

hmscott
04-24-2015, 09:43 AM
I really wish the Internet was self-updating, so things like this wouldn't persist for years after it was relevant, if it ever really was relevant - not really since the Lead Acid battery days :)

There is 0 -> Zero Advantage in running with the battery out. Zippo, nada, zilch - less than 0 in fact - it is a bad idea to let your battery self discharge sitting on a shelf instead of letting the built-in battery conditioning circuit maintain a healthy current environment for your battery.

You can safely leave the battery in, and never worry about it again, and enjoy your laptop :)

venomous21
04-24-2015, 11:25 PM
Thank you for your response. I appreciate your contributions to this forum (I used the earlier color profiles from loomitz...helped a ton) and read many threads where you contributed.

I think I might not have been clear. I had a power event of some sort that fried my ac adapter. I would like to protect my ac adapter since the replacement cost about $110 with shipping from Amazon (used the thread to order the asus made one you linked).

I will occasionally put the battery back in (probably once a month or every 2 weeks so it doesn't die -- will research this further) since I would only use it for the rare time I travel as a personal UPS (not taking my huge APC ups with me heh). I -always- use it when it's plugged in..never mobile (unless the power goes out).

All that having been said, I think I could protect my AC adapter better if it's plugged into a battery outlet of my UPS and not surge only (since none of my equipment plugged into the battery outlets was damaged). Can my ac adapter provide enough power under "high performance" settings (with 0 cpu throttling) without the battery or will I damage my laptop? I ask this question because some old ibm laptops with 65w adapters needed to occasionally pull some power from their battery during high load.

I would love to plug the ac adapter into the battery backup outlet -and- leave my battery in the laptop, however, after scouring the internet, it seems this is a very bad idea and can damage equipment (I can find the links). If you have updated links that say otherwise, I'd be happy to look at them.

To re-cap, I want to protect my ac adapter and laptop...which means taking my battery out of my laptop and plugging into a UPS but don't know if A) the adapter can provide all the juice and i'll damage the laptop. I would keep the battery in but again read that you shouldn't plug a laptop with battery into a battery backup UPS.

hmscott
04-25-2015, 12:22 AM
To re-cap, I want to protect my ac adapter and laptop...which means taking my battery out of my laptop and plugging into a UPS but don't know if A) the adapter can provide all the juice and i'll damage the laptop. I would keep the battery in but again read that you shouldn't plug a laptop with battery into a battery backup UPS.

venomous21, I passed over the battery on battery action because it wasn't the point I felt needed making, but I left out some additional stuff I thought of but didn't have time to put in right then :)

First, I have used laptop's on an APC UPS, as well as power strips - which is also a "no-no", and I never fried anything. I tested performance, voltages, battery heat and charging on the UPS vs Wall socket, monitored the UPS / etc - and I couldn't detect any measurable difference between running on the UPS and the Wall socket.

I had the same need, protecting my electronics against way outback mountain power... it's rough stuff.

I got a 120+lb isolation transformer. It was normally used for large demo booth floor conference participation. It was contained in a beat up box/trolly - but inside the box it was a pristine giant isolation transformer and more than flattened out the power :)

That thing was a fixed installation solution after it was mounted in place in the lake cabin. For traveling I got the largest Triplett AC filtering as normal AC power allows - about $250 per socket - with 4/8 filtered outputs. Haven't looked for a while, but last I looked they were still available.

There are newer active power filtering systems that will likely solve your problem too, but be more expensive - or less - it has been a while since I looked.

What I am saying is, yes you can try running with the battery in your laptop plugged in to the UPS on a standard power strip and you should be ok. Watch temps of battery and charging cycle - length of time to charge from a set % just to make sure things are acting normally.

But, better would be to get a good power line conditioner and use that in front of the stuff you want to protect.

As an aside, that mountain power snuffed a Macintosh in 20 minutes before I got the isolation transformer, so I know what you are worried about.

My Convergent UNIX tower had really good power conditioning built in, and didn't mind the mountain power :)

I hope that helps!

And, always keep your battery in your laptop ;)

venomous21
04-25-2015, 04:34 AM
I would love to get a line conditioner or isolation transformer for the house but doubt the wife will approve the expense with a baby on the way.

This article is from 2004 but doubt much has changed with our grid since that time. http://www.geek.com/xyzcomputing/daisy-chain-your-ups-571188/

Tripplite said:
No, I would not recommend daisy-chaining your UPS units. When your UPS goes into battery mode, it outputs a modified sinewave, which will be interpreted by the second UPS as a power surge. The second UPS would then channel the current back into the first UPS. This is potentially hazardous and will result in damage to the first UPS and probably the second.

optiUPS said:

Yes, It is feasible and safe if your two UPS are sinewave machine (not stepwave or simulate sinewave).

APC Says:

4) “In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time. If you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will also go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not provide any extra run-time to the load.”

Obviously, I'm not daisy chaining UPS (or care about extra runtime) but basically my laptop with battery acts as a UPS so it is similar. Also, my APC ups does use a step-approximated sine wave. As such, assuming this information is correct, I could possibly damage my laptop if I use it with battery plugged into a UPS battery outlet during a surge or power outage.

If I don't care about my laptop's battery life (since I rarely travel), will plugging my laptop's ac adapter (without battery in the laptop) into a UPS battery outlet protect my ac adapter & my laptop will function normally and not be damaged (as long as the UPS remains in tact)? I want to make sure my ac adapter can provide the necessary power with the laptop battery removed.

hmscott
04-25-2015, 09:23 PM
I would love to get a line conditioner or isolation transformer for the house but doubt the wife will approve the expense with a baby on the way.

This article is from 2004 but doubt much has changed with our grid since that time. http://www.geek.com/xyzcomputing/daisy-chain-your-ups-571188/

Tripplite said:
No, I would not recommend daisy-chaining your UPS units. When your UPS goes into battery mode, it outputs a modified sinewave, which will be interpreted by the second UPS as a power surge. The second UPS would then channel the current back into the first UPS. This is potentially hazardous and will result in damage to the first UPS and probably the second.

optiUPS said:

Yes, It is feasible and safe if your two UPS are sinewave machine (not stepwave or simulate sinewave).

APC Says:

4) “In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time. If you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will also go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not provide any extra run-time to the load.”

Obviously, I'm not daisy chaining UPS (or care about extra runtime) but basically my laptop with battery acts as a UPS so it is similar. Also, my APC ups does use a step-approximated sine wave. As such, assuming this information is correct, I could possibly damage my laptop if I use it with battery plugged into a UPS battery outlet during a surge or power outage.

If I don't care about my laptop's battery life (since I rarely travel), will plugging my laptop's ac adapter (without battery in the laptop) into a UPS battery outlet protect my ac adapter & my laptop will function normally and not be damaged (as long as the UPS remains in tact)? I want to make sure my ac adapter can provide the necessary power with the laptop battery removed.

venomous21, the laptop battery system isn't a UPS. Don't confuse the issue, they are not comparable. There is no problem plugging your laptop in to a UPS.

And, it's completely unnecessary to take out your battery from the laptop. Your laptop on AC power will not run the current through the battery. The battery is not in the circuit to provide power to the laptop while on AC.

The laptop will switch over to the battery power when the power stops coming from the AC input.

If you run your laptop without it's battery (unnecessary in every way) while plugged in to the UPS, and you kick out the AC cord from the laptop, more common than you might imagine, your laptop will immediately cease to function and you will lose the data not saved in open applications, and you might get your disk contents corrupted because Windows didn't get a chance to save cached data - and if the power outage occurs during a disk write - also quite common - the last write will be corrupted.

Your chaining UPS sine wave analogy - makes no sense when applied to a laptop battery. The battery is only in circuit while there is no AC power coming in. The AC to DC power converter in the laptop is still running while on AC power so that is the only consideration.

The laptop while on battery is using Direct DC from the batter and converting to various DC voltages as need internally, it isn't converting battery DC to AC and then converting back to DC to use in the laptop :)

You can use your UPS, plug in your laptop, leave the battery in, and you have isolated your AC Adapter from the incoming AC house power.

I always buy 1 or 2 spare power adapters for my laptops, as you can't just drive down and buy one should it fail. I keep one at home, one at work, and one in my bag, then I am never left stranded with only 3 hours left of battery life before my laptop is a useless dead weight :)

I hope that clears it up for you :)

If not, you can contact the UPS maker directly and ask them. You can call, email, chat with the support for your UPS and ask the same question(s).