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NitroX
05-09-2015, 09:03 PM
I have stumbled across some of the recommendations over here, on the forums. I have checked them up on the internet in order to see the general feeling about them and I ended up quite confused.

1) About the Fast Start-up in Windows 8 and the Hibernation file : I have checked this up and the only advantages that I have come across for disabling the hibernation are: the possibility of dual booting (using 2 different OS's on the same computer), to avoid the reboot requirement after windows updates, if you cannot correctly shut down your computer and , in the case of SSD owners, it is recommended if you have small capacity SSDs and you need the additional space from removing the hibernation file.

Now, as I am only using the 1TB HDD without an SSD I am seriously thinking about the disadvantages of this action. The most important for me would be that: in case of a full battery draw, the system won't be able to save your work and enter hibernation state. This meaning that your notebook will shut off completely if the battery gets completely empty. I have been in this situation once and the hibernation thing saved my day :). Also, since I am using a mechanical HDD I find it useful to have a faster boot time.

But, what I have heard around the forum is that disabling Fast Boot and deleting the Hibernation file would improve the system response time. I am going to test this myself but I would also like a more thorough explanation from someone that has more info on this subject.

See the link below for an example of what I'm saying:
http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-or-enable-fast-startup-in-windows-8-1/

2) About the windows Pagefile: Again, I have checked this up on the internet and I have found some very interesting infos about disabling Pagefile in Windows. As you can read in the link below, by disabling the Pagefile won't actually increase your system performance nor it will bring many advantages in the end. What that guy explains sounds quite true.

The only advantage for disabling the Pagefile would be again the necessity of more space on your SSD. But, in this case, you can also chose to keep your "Pagefile" file on your HDD by changing it's default location.

http://www.howtogeek.com/126430/htg-explains-what-is-the-windows-page-file-and-should-you-disable-it/


Again, I have found people saying that disabling Pagefile would improve the system response time. This sounds appealing for me but after reading the article from the previous link I am not that excited anymore. I will also test this myself to see if in the end something does improve or not.


So, in the end, what would be the truth about these 2 features ? Have you guys experienced a true improvement after disabling them? (Placebo's don't count :)) ).
I am more interested about the possible benefits for my Wireless 802.11n high ping which I have written about in another thread (https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?61182-Intel-s-Wireless-Adapter-7260-Troubleshooting-Ping-Issues)

hmscott
05-10-2015, 01:12 AM
Like any software service or feature, decide if you need the features of the software, if you don't, then disable/uninstall it.

If you do need it, optimize it so that it doesn't impact your resources in excess of it's benefits.

For the pagefile, there is no "need" for it if you have enough memory and you aren't running up against the edge of memory. I started disabling pagefile around 4GB-6GB of memory - long ago, and today with 32GB I occasionally need to turn it on when working with many networked VM's but only for safety sake just in case I go over 32GB.

There are some applications that need(ed) pagefile enabled, you will know it when they request it. Or, in the case of one particular version of XTU, the monitoring stopped working. Enabling pagefile fixed it, reported it, and the next version didn't need the pagefile enabled.

For kernel/BSOD debugging you can enable pagefile size for 800mb, and that will be enough. Enable/disable dump file in msconfig if pagefile enabled/disabled.

If there is no reason for it, why continue to use it? Even if it is a minute hit on system resources, it is unnecessary - like many background services we disable when benchmarking - it all adds up :)

For Hibernation there have been reports of problems starting with Windows 8.1 upgrade times that caused hangs at shutdown - which turned out to be a bad Bluetooth driver, so while trying many things disabling Hibernate / Fast Start was tried, and fixed the shutdown hangs.

There are also reports that disabling Hibernation / Fast start cures some of the Black Screen at start - also doing a Full Shutdown with it enabled works. Not all Black Screens are from this, but many are solved by disabling Hibernate/Fast Startup.

With Hibernation you get no choice in the size of the hiberfil.sys file, it is the size of installed memory. With 32GB hiberfil.sys and 32GB of pagefile on the C partition - the fastest one in many peoples machines - that takes away an inordinate percentage of total space available.

These 2 services would have to do a lot more than they do to justify 64GB from my 237GB C partition :)

It's up to you, but for me they are just a couple of checkboxes on the list of things to set when doing a new install, and leaving them that way has worked out great for me.

NitroX
05-10-2015, 06:52 AM
Thanks for the reply master Scott :P !

I do agree with your way of thinking as a SSD owner. And since you have 32GB of RAM I do understand to disable Pagefile since you are almost always far away of using the whole Dram memory. But one of the points of my post was if these services are worth disabling if you only run on an HDD (I know, I know... having a G751 and running without an SSD isn't quite the way to go ) . I also have just the model with only 8GB of DRam and my Hibernation file isn't that big as yours. But, the size of the files wasn't actually my main issue.

What I am interested in is if disabling these services does improve something in my system's performance. I am currently struggling with the stupid Intel 7260 which on 802.11n standard keeps giving me ping spikes that kinda ruin my online games. And I did see someone over here that said that disabling Fast Boot => Hibernation has solved some of his high ping issues. (See here https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?56440-Asus-g751jt-and-intel-wireless-ac-7260&p=493936&viewfull=1#post493936) .

Now, I am testing if this theory also solves my issue but I had to ask over here in order to see how there things worked for other people.

hmscott
05-10-2015, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the reply master Scott :P !

I do agree with your way of thinking as a SSD owner. And since you have 32GB of RAM I do understand to disable Pagefile since you are almost always far away of using the whole Dram memory. But one of the points of my post was if these services are worth disabling if you only run on an HDD (I know, I know... having a G751 and running without an SSD isn't quite the way to go ) . I also have just the model with only 8GB of DRam and my Hibernation file isn't that big as yours. But, the size of the files wasn't actually my main issue.

What I am interested in is if disabling these services does improve something in my system's performance. I am currently struggling with the stupid Intel 7260 which on 802.11n standard keeps giving me ping spikes that kinda ruin my online games. And I did see someone over here that said that disabling Fast Boot => Hibernation has solved some of his high ping issues. (See here https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?56440-Asus-g751jt-and-intel-wireless-ac-7260&p=493936&viewfull=1#post493936) .

Now, I am testing if this theory also solves my issue but I had to ask over here in order to see how there things worked for other people.

NitroX, it has nothing to do with SSD's, the reasons for disabling both are valid for SSD or HDD.

It is a function which you need or don't need. Turn it off if you don't need it, tune it for best resource usage if you do need it.

You shouldn't have ping spikes either way, with or without these services enabled.

Is it possible that there is some interaction between the 7260 driver and the OS where disabling these services might help, possibly, so try it :)

Most likely there is a driver problem that still isn't fixed. Some strange interaction the driver has that results in random lag.

There certainly are lots of people reporting ping spikes lag with the 7260, and for a long time, here is one from 2014:

https://communities.intel.com/thread/53294?start=0&tstart=0

Here are a bunch more:
https://www.google.com/search?q=7260+ping+spikes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

And, here is someone that thinks they fixed it...

Intel Wireless Ping Spikes and Lag FIXED!
http://jakthebomb.tumblr.com/post/90717903679/intel-wireless-ping-spikes-and-lag-fixed

Hopefully that/those will help :)

You didn't mention which driver you are running. Intel 7250 drivers tend to move 1 step forward and 2 steps back, over the last year of watching, there have been bad releases. So if the newest one doesn't work, try backing up versions until you find one that does work. Check out the Intel forums for version reactions from owners.

Intel® PROSet/Wireless Software for Windows 8.1 - both drivers only and drivers + software
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24864/Intel-PROSet-Wireless-Software-for-Windows-8-1-

Older, and future new releases will show up here:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/75439/Intel-Dual-Band-Wireless-AC-7260

It's still a good idea to try running with disabled pagefile and hibernation - but not necessarily to fix 7260 ping spikes/lag :)

JasenDoe
05-10-2015, 12:50 PM
You should have said you have ping spikes.... I had them every 2-5 minutes just for a few seconds, then normal again.
I have fixed it like 3-4 months ago

THIS FIXED IT FOR ME -> Just edit the registry, it works like a charm

Intel Wireless Ping Spikes and Lag FIXED!
http://jakthebomb.tumblr.com/post/90...-and-lag-fixed

NitroX
05-10-2015, 02:35 PM
Thank you guys for the advice, but as I have written over here https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?61182-Intel-s-Wireless-Adapter-7260-Troubleshooting-Ping-Issues I already tried the registry thingy and it did helped for half the ping spikes (the ones that came from constant refresh of the network list). For the rest of the ping spikes it seems that it may be the high interference of the 802.11n network in the surrounding area. I am living in an apartment and I have like 10-11 neighbors with Wi-Fi routers (I can see all of them with my phone and my notebook).

I have successfully reduced the ping spikes at the moment. I have changed the main recommended channels 1, 6 , 11 and it seems that I am getting much better response time on channel 11. I have also lowered the transmitting power of the router and of the Intel 7260 adapter to lower the interference with the routers in the vecinity. I have just played 30 mins of CS:GO without any ping spike ( the max was 40ms or something).

@Hmscott: I have disabled the hibernation file since yesterday. I will now try to disable the pagefile also and see how it works out for me during these next few days. I'll come back with a feedback :).

Korth
05-10-2015, 05:10 PM
Years of Windows use has taught me that - aside from the specifically noxious behaviours you'd want to curb - it's just best to let Windows do its own things in its own ways, bloaty junk data and all. No need to free up every single byte on your drives these days, Windows has plenty of room to create all the junk files it wants. So long as the pollution is organized and contained within OS folders and so long as it doesn't impact performance it does little real harm. I've spent a lot of time (it all adds up) meticulously cleaning and trimming and pruning Windows, sometimes to discover that I'd broken some oddball special-purpose applet Windows likes to run every few seasons, and in return I only reclaimed a few dozen MB of storage space and lost my obsessive digital tidyness over and over again whenever the OS was reinstalled or updated.

Clean Windows up as you like, but my personal experience is that it does little good and causes a little harm and overall it's basically just a waste of time. linux ftw again!

hmscott
05-10-2015, 07:47 PM
Years of Windows use has taught me that - aside from the specifically noxious behaviors you'd want to curb - it's just best to let Windows do its own things in its own ways, bloaty junk data and all. No need to free up every single byte on your drives these days, Windows has plenty of room to create all the junk files it wants. So long as the pollution is organized and contained within OS folders and so long as it doesn't impact performance it does little real harm. I've spent a lot of time (it all adds up) meticulously cleaning and trimming and pruning Windows, sometimes to discover that I'd broken some oddball special-purpose applet Windows likes to run every few seasons, and in return I only reclaimed a few dozen MB of storage space and lost my obsessive digital tidyness over and over again whenever the OS was reinstalled or updated.
Clean Windows up as you like, but my personal experience is that it does little good and causes a little harm and overall it's basically just a waste of time. linux ftw again!

Korth, let modern automation do it for you :)

ccleaner + ccenhancer have coded in all the little nooks and crevices where the cruft hides.

ccleaner will analyze then clean up most of the Windows stuff hanging around that you don't need, and ccenhancer adds a bunch of application (also Windows applications) clean up.

That way you can run ccenhancer, download the latest updates, then it will run ccleaner, and within a couple of minutes as you are enjoying your favorite beverage or visible vapor, you will have gotten rid of many hundreds of MB, and for me, a couple of GB's a week.

ccleaner download
https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download

ccenhancer
https://singularlabs.com/software/ccenhancer/

The first time you run ccenhancer it's gonna load a bunch of app profiles, and when in ccleaner you are going to need to click the Applications tab and enable lots of stuff - and each time new things are added look for them and enable them.

The only ones I don't enable are for passwords and things I want to preserve.

It makes a big difference if you do this weekly, monthly, etc - I have cleaned up computers that have run for years and gotten rid of many many gigs of useless cruft that was being loaded/scanned by apps as they start up slowing them down.

49095

Then, run a good defragmenter like PerfectDisk - SMARTplacement template.

PerfectDisk Pro
http://www.raxco.com/home/products/perfectdisk-pro

Do this once a month, and for the small amount of time invested you will be surprised how things continue to run well, rather than bogging down over time.

Disabling the 2 largest storage resource hogs on the computer - pagefile and hiberfil.sys, along with the next hundred or so cleaned up by ccleaner/ccenhancer does make a difference, and doesn't take much time.

Korth
05-10-2015, 08:43 PM
Install bloat designed to kill bloat?

Besides, I'm a "hands on", hard tech, hard specs, task- and result-oriented kinda nerd. If I don't do it myself then it just won't be done right, eh? All those cleaning apps really offer me is a way to save time while breaking Windows.

More importantly, I basically only boot Windows for DirectX and gaming. In fact, as often as not, I boot Windows in a window as needed, through a VM or WINE shell, because it can actually be forced to run consistently faster (and not leave a mess) when a real OS is put in charge of things. Even for heaviest gaming, it's true. Small code executes faster, you see.

But certain products like CCleaner, etc are quite popular and highly recommended for most. I suppose defrags are indeed sometimes necessary for those who depend on sloppy Windows file systems.

Korth
05-10-2015, 08:54 PM
Disabling paging/swap files is workable if you have sufficient RAM, but Windows leans on them fairly heavily. Unless allowed to bloat out past the limits of mere physical RAM, Windows gets cranky and cantankerous - all sorts of stupid things start to fail and complain with ever-increasing frequency, little things like fonts and shortcuts keep breaking, animations halt and stutter, and even icons start to lose their shiny cosmetic lustre. Personally, I think giving some (otherwise unused) drive space to Windows is a small price to pay to keep it fully happy and functional.

The hiberfil is pretty much useless, unless you let your machine sleep a lot. I never use it, personally - my machine is ON or it's OFF. I would only let it remain unmolested on a laptop.

hmscott
05-11-2015, 04:04 AM
Install bloat designed to kill bloat?
Besides, I'm a "hands on", hard tech, hard specs, task- and result-oriented kinda nerd. If I don't do it myself then it just won't be done right, eh? All those cleaning apps really offer me is a way to save time while breaking Windows.
More importantly, I basically only boot Windows for DirectX and gaming. In fact, as often as not, I boot Windows in a window as needed, through a VM or WINE shell, because it can actually be forced to run consistently faster (and not leave a mess) when a real OS is put in charge of things. Even for heaviest gaming, it's true. Small code executes faster, you see.
But certain products like CCleaner, etc are quite popular and highly recommended for most. I suppose defrags are indeed sometimes necessary for those who depend on sloppy Windows file systems.

Korth, a tool is a tool. Whether it is Windows or Linux. Having worked on both for many years, me starting computer work before Windows or Linux existed, doing UNIX, VMS, Tops 20/10, and seeing so many OS's going by the wayside over the years, you learn to work within the framework you have to the best possible - and avoid contempt based judgements, one OS isn't better than another on balance - they all suck :)

I make my living on Linux, AIX, Solaris, UNIX et al, and don't condemn any of those applied as needed. For me Desktop Linux / Windows / MacOS are interfaces to those servers, no need to condemn them either.

To use them all to the best effect, you need to become 100% familiar with them as applied to current need, skipping some feature or service for philosophical reasons - tying my hands from using resources to full effect doesn't make any sense - it costs me and clients time.

ccleaner/ccenhancer are automation tools, that don't install parasitic software, that do a good job at automating something that would take me much longer by hand, and join a long list of such tools I have used over the years - and recommended to others that aren't technically adept so they can keep their PC's running and not taking time away from me or the owner to fix. :)

When you know the limits of your OS and can address them so they don't run away with resources, like my time coding it again myself, you get better performance and a happier coexistence :)

hmscott
05-11-2015, 04:12 AM
Disabling paging/swap files is workable if you have sufficient RAM, but Windows leans on them fairly heavily. Unless allowed to bloat out past the limits of mere physical RAM, Windows gets cranky and cantankerous - all sorts of stupid things start to fail and complain with ever-increasing frequency, little things like fonts and shortcuts keep breaking, animations halt and stutter, and even icons start to lose their shiny cosmetic lustre. Personally, I think giving some (otherwise unused) drive space to Windows is a small price to pay to keep it fully happy and functional.
The hiberfil is pretty much useless, unless you let your machine sleep a lot. I never use it, personally - my machine is ON or it's OFF. I would only let it remain unmolested on a laptop.

If I experienced any such symptoms I would have reported them and not recommended turning off the pagefile in the first place. I don't see any of those problems.

If you are experiencing such problems, and turning on the pagefile fixes them, then you need a pagefile enabled, which I do mention in my recommendations - you will know when you need it :)

Sleep/hibernate were more useful when computers/IO was slower - it's still not "fast", but within the human response time it is quick enough starting up from a cold boot.

As with all computer features designed to deal with limitations of hardware, over time their need diminishes as the hardware catches up and passes up the need of the software feature.

It's all fun stuff :)

Try configuring a Linux/UNIX server without swap/page space, you can save a lot of hardware costs over thousands of machines when implementing enough memory to hold the services without limit. Improving performance and reduce downtime due to HDD failures.