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View Full Version : g751jt, big performance hit on battery power, is it just me?



XOIIO
08-03-2015, 07:00 AM
Another quick question, and I want to check to see if other people have this or if I just missed a setting for CPU speed adjustment or something in the power options. When playing a game such as GTA5, I can usually get 40-50fps or so on quite high settings, with the plug in, with the plug out however that drops all the way down to 20. Now I know that having a plug in is the best option, you have a better supply of current to the laptop, but it does make it hard to demonstrate how good a computer is to people you know if it takes a big performance hit on battery power. I figured FPS would decrease some, but by over half on a gaming laptop? It just seems to me that maybe I am missing something. That or perhaps the battery just can't supply as much current without heating up too much so the CPU speed is throttled. I'm going to take a peek in the BIOS to see if I missed something there perhaps.

joshindaphils
08-03-2015, 02:39 PM
Only so much current can be drawn from the battery w/o damaging the battery or even causing a fire. A line must be drawn somewhere. Would you rather the battery only last 30-40 cycles, but you get better gaming performance while on battery?

All gaming laptops have this same limitation. To put this in perspective, and for the sake of argument we assume that pulling ~80% of the power adapter rating though battery wasn't an issue... Playing a game with an averaging a 180w power draw during play, your battery would last less than 30 minutes. I hope this illustrates the problem a little better.

yfbcjw
08-04-2015, 12:49 PM
I signed up to the forums specifically for this issue. I have yet to try playing any games on just the battery, but once I pull the AC plug my laptop becomes sluggish and slow in general use. Actually.. it's unbearable. Just upgraded from a 5 year old Dell and on that never had such an issue as this on battery. Loading apps take longer, just highlighting a button (such as an X to close an app) takes a few seconds to animate the highlight. I have switched to the high performance mode and disabled the intel CPPC setting, set processor state to 100% and neither of these help make the laptop usable. Any ideas?

joshindaphils
08-04-2015, 01:32 PM
I signed up to the forums specifically for this issue. I have yet to try playing any games on just the battery, but once I pull the AC plug my laptop becomes sluggish and slow in general use. Actually.. it's unbearable. Just upgraded from a 5 year old Dell and on that never had such an issue as this on battery. Loading apps take longer, just highlighting a button (such as an X to close an app) takes a few seconds to animate the highlight. I have switched to the high performance mode and disabled the intel CPPC setting, set processor state to 100% and neither of these help make the laptop usable. Any ideas?

Definitely not normal, that is an extraordinary slowdown... other than that I have no advice to remedy your situation. General usage like you are describing (close button transition) would be very snappy regardless of powerplan settings.

Back to X0110 do insure you are on the highest power plan, and battery boost is set to the FPS you prefer... this only help on games easier to run where FPS is not an issue on batter power and helps reduce power draw further. 30 FPS is the minimum setting though.

edix12345
08-04-2015, 03:25 PM
Check the power plan because it has different options for when its plugged and unplugged.
it has nothing to do with the current going in when its plugged, trust me.

joshindaphils
08-04-2015, 07:02 PM
Check the power plan because it has different options for when its plugged and unplugged.
it has nothing to do with the current going in when its plugged, trust me.

The battery limits the system to a 100w draw, the combined power draw of both (without a single other component to factor) the 970m and the CPU at full load is in Excess of 100w... how do you presume to get full performance when the power cannot be delivered?

Please do not spread misinformation.

Yes you can get higher performance *comparatively* by using a higher draw power plan vs a low draw power plan. I had already suggested this and other things so that he may maximize his performance.

You will not see the same performance as when you are plugged into the wall. It is physically impossible.

Asoryu
08-05-2015, 02:20 PM
Only so much current can be drawn from the battery w/o damaging the battery or even causing a fire. A line must be drawn somewhere. Would you rather the battery only last 30-40 cycles, but you get better gaming performance while on battery?

All gaming laptops have this same limitation. To put this in perspective, and for the sake of argument we assume that pulling ~80% of the power adapter rating though battery wasn't an issue... Playing a game with an averaging a 180w power draw during play, your battery would last less than 30 minutes. I hope this illustrates the problem a little better.

Speaking of lies and misinformation. Spoken like someone who knows nothing about draw and load.

joshindaphils
08-05-2015, 02:40 PM
Speaking of lies and misinformation. Spoken like someone who knows nothing about draw and load.

Prey tell? What exactly is a lie or misinformation, or do you just have an accusation and an ad hominem attack with nothing to back it?

I stand by my statement and my hypothetical example.

I think you will be hard pressed to discredit my statements with anything more that what you have provided.

Asoryu
08-05-2015, 04:57 PM
Prey tell? What exactly is a lie or misinformation, or do you just have an accusation and an ad hominem attack with nothing to back it?

I stand by my statement and my hypothetical example.

I think you will be hard pressed to discredit my statements with anything more that what you have provided.

180w load at 19.5v is 9.2 amps. Even the crappiest Chinese LiPo batteries I have can sustain an 10 amp draw meaning that the only limitations would be in the laptops ability to pull 10 amps off the charging system. So that would mean the laptop power control would be the limiting factor and if that were the case then the laptop could never pull enough amps to fully power the system battery or not.

There is absolutely zero reason you shouldn't be able to run your laptop at full power on battery other than the limitations of how long you could.

So my question for you is where are you getting the information that laptop batteries aren't capable of the supposed draw you have suggested?

joshindaphils
08-05-2015, 06:47 PM
180w load at 19.5v is 9.2 amps. Even the crappiest Chinese LiPo batteries I have can sustain an 10 amp draw meaning that the only limitations would be in the laptops ability to pull 10 amps off the charging system. So that would mean the laptop power control would be the limiting factor and if that were the case then the laptop could never pull enough amps to fully power the system battery or not.

There is absolutely zero reason you shouldn't be able to run your laptop at full power on battery other than the limitations of how long you could.

So my question for you is where are you getting the information that laptop batteries aren't capable of the supposed draw you have suggested?

I am not in the habit of talking out of my rear on things I have little or no knowledge on. While I am in error on occasion, after all nobody is perfect. I do make an effort to correct my errors when discovered. In addition I most certainly don't lie. I do not appreciate the insinuations of both of these things please do post an apology for your libel.

All batteries have different discharge rates. Several factors determine what this is, and there are certainly trade-offs. Utilizing the higher C rating (discharge rate) of a battery comes at a cost of fewer duty cycles and more heat generation. There are a myriad of things wrong with your assumptions, however I will stop here, as it is easy to see why you would not want a hot battery inside of your laptop, and why you would want the battery to last as long as possible.

Here is a good resource for more on batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/

You can't make an apples to apples comparison against high C Li-Pos and Li-ions inside of laptops they have completely different intended uses. As well the limitation of power delivered to the laptop not need to be restricted by the battery at all. In the case of laptops they are generally design limitations to prevent a host of other issues like heat and low run time.

The G751 is restricted to 100w, I've seen this in a handful of place here is yet another one I found by searching 'g751 100w' http://www.ultrabookreview.com/5919-asus-g751jy-review/.

I have not stated that the battery cannot deliver the power needed to run g751 at full boar, don't put words in my mouth. I stated that too much current can cause damage to the batter, i.e. shortening the life due to heat stress... remember this current is generating heat inside of the battery then powering components generating even more heat... now admittedly the catching fire part is a bit of hyperbole though it most certainly can happen and was used to further illustrate reasons why one would want to limit the draw from a battery. Regardless the statements stand as factual.

I don't happen to know the particulars of the battery in the g751, nor have I claimed to, it is a rather moot issue due to the power restrictions in place.

Asoryu
08-05-2015, 08:41 PM
I am not in the habit of talking out of my rear on things I have little or no knowledge on. While I am in error on occasion, after all nobody is perfect. I do make an effort to correct my errors when discovered. In addition I most certainly don't lie. I do not appreciate the insinuations of both of these things please do post an apology for your libel.

All batteries have different discharge rates. Several factors determine what this is, and there are certainly trade-offs. Utilizing the higher C rating (discharge rate) of a battery comes at a cost of fewer duty cycles and more heat generation. There are a myriad of things wrong with your assumptions, however I will stop here, as it is easy to see why you would not want a hot battery inside of your laptop, and why you would want the battery to last as long as possible.

Here is a good resource for more on batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/

You can't make an apples to apples comparison against high C Li-Pos and Li-ions inside of laptops they have completely different intended uses. As well the limitation of power delivered to the laptop not need to be restricted by the battery at all. In the case of laptops they are generally design limitations to prevent a host of other issues like heat and low run time.

The G751 is restricted to 100w, I've seen this in a handful of place here is yet another one I found by searching 'g751 100w' http://www.ultrabookreview.com/5919-asus-g751jy-review/.

I have not stated that the battery cannot deliver the power needed to run g751 at full boar, don't put words in my mouth. I stated that too much current can cause damage to the batter, i.e. shortening the life due to heat stress... remember this current is generating heat inside of the battery then powering components generating even more heat... now admittedly the catching fire part is a bit of hyperbole though it most certainly can happen and was used to further illustrate reasons why one would want to limit the draw from a battery. Regardless the statements stand as factual.

I don't happen to know the particulars of the battery in the g751, nor have I claimed to, it is a rather moot issue due to the power restrictions in place.

You stated that all gaming laptops suffer from this restriction which is untrue and the logic you used to support it is also unsound at best. My opinion is that this is more than likely a restriction placed on them so they don't wear out the built in battery too fast since you can't replace it.

An honest statement would have been that ASUS limits the power output of these units to 100 watts on battery.

joshindaphils
08-05-2015, 09:41 PM
* of this caliber if you wish to add. Though I would bet that caveat is unneeded regarding gaming laptops.

I could be wrong, as I don't have intimate knowledge of every laptop built, but as far as I know no laptop pulling anything around 200w at load does so while strictly on battery. I would further bet this is the case for even lower powered laptops.

It is your accusation and your onus to show otherwise. Until then you are just posting hot air, and I am bored of it.

Asoryu
08-06-2015, 02:44 PM
* of this caliber if you wish to add. Though I would bet that caveat is unneeded regarding gaming laptops.

I could be wrong, as I don't have intimate knowledge of every laptop built, but as far as I know no laptop pulling anything around 200w at load does so while strictly on battery. I would further bet this is the case for even lower powered laptops.

It is your accusation and your onus to show otherwise. Until then you are just posting hot air, and I am bored of it.

Yes, the onus is on me to prove that ASUS didn't produce a quality product. Just read the forums for a few minutes and I think we can cover that.

joshindaphils
08-06-2015, 03:49 PM
Yes, the onus is on me to prove that ASUS didn't produce a quality product. Just read the forums for a few minutes and I think we can cover that.

Undoubtedly this rep is from you for this thread "Spreads bogus information to users trying to pass it off as legitimate technical information." If not I apologize. I'm assuming it was supposed to be negative rep, but as you have no rep power I can't tell.

So yet more unfounded accusations, wish I could say I was surprised.

It is very very simple Asoryo.

You say I am lying and spreading disinformation.

I seek clarity on why.. I mean hey, maybe I am wrong here. I like to keep an open mind and grow as an individual after all. Perhaps I'll learn something new. Even if you open with disrespectful and untrue accusations.

You vaguely state your reasons, I reply with specifics and references and add clarity to my intent lest you are confused or read my statements incorrectly. That last bit I found important as you specifically attribute to me statements and intents I didn't make or intend to make. In addition I clearly show why statements you made are wrong i.e. zero reasons for limited power draw.

Then instead of presenting the slightest attempt of a constructive rebuttal (or much less acquiescing) you construct a strawman to my reply in the form moving the topic to my comment regarding all gaming laptops operating a lower power while on battery.

You see the onus is not on you to show anything about Asus products, the onus is on you to back your multiple claims that I am a liar, and presenting bad technical information with anything more than hand waving and more strawmen.

I have a theory and it goes like this; you can't, that is why your rebuttals don't confirm your accusations.

I'll even help you out here. Simply showing a single gaming laptop that doesn't power throttle on battery would prove that I was technically wrong with one of my assertions and I should change 'all' to 'most all' gaming laptops. Can't help you on your lying accusation though.

Also you should take a look at the form rules http://rog.asus.com/rog-forum-guidelines/

You have violated rules 1,2 and 3 in one post.

Asoryu
08-06-2015, 06:26 PM
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3909364/best-gaming-laptop-reviews Razer's Blade, 2 years old but I just did a cursory internet search.


Only so much current can be drawn from the battery w/o damaging the battery or even causing a fire. A line must be drawn somewhere.


The battery limits the system to a 100w draw, the combined power draw of both (without a single other component to factor) the 970m and the CPU at full load is in Excess of 100w... how do you presume to get full performance when the power cannot be delivered?

Please do not spread misinformation.

Yes you can get higher performance *comparatively* by using a higher draw power plan vs a low draw power plan. I had already suggested this and other things so that he may maximize his performance.

You will not see the same performance as when you are plugged into the wall. It is physically impossible.



I have not stated that the battery cannot deliver the power needed to run g751 at full boar, don't put words in my mouth.

I don't believe I have committed libel in any fashion, and now that we are seeing direct quotes from you, your position that I have violated the first two rules of the forum are not true. Your position that I have somehow violated the third rule of the forum is untrue and you have not proof, or basis for making such a claim.

After our discussion we have concluded that ASUS limits the output of these laptops intentionally and it is not a fault of the battery. The reasons for this are known only to ASUS but we can guess since the battery cannot be replaced that it might be a combination of trying to maximize the lifespan of the battery and to increase battery uptime while unplugged.

I do believe you owe Edix12345 an apology since we have proven that he is correct when he says that it's not related to the current when plugged in since we have established that it's a function of the ASUS product and not a limitation of any specific piece of hardware.

joshindaphils
08-06-2015, 08:09 PM
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3909364/best-gaming-laptop-reviews Razer's Blade, 2 years old but I just did a cursory internet search.

I don't believe I have committed libel in any fashion, and now that we are seeing direct quotes from you, your position that I have violated the first two rules of the forum are not true. Your position that I have somehow violated the third rule of the forum is untrue and you have not proof, or basis for making such a claim.

After our discussion we have concluded that ASUS limits the output of these laptops intentionally and it is not a fault of the battery. The reasons for this are known only to ASUS but we can guess since the battery cannot be replaced that it might be a combination of trying to maximize the lifespan of the battery and to increase battery uptime while unplugged.

I do believe you owe Edix12345 an apology since we have proven that he is correct when he says that it's not related to the current when plugged in since we have established that it's a function of the ASUS product and not a limitation of any specific piece of hardware.

Sigh,


Speaking of lies and misinformation. Spoken like someone who knows nothing about draw and load.

Above is your exact quote you also quoted my posting as well, there is no confusion on what you are calling a lies. It is literally there in black and white and straight up defamation. I have no clue what mental leaps you must take to clear yourself of that one.


Check the power plan because it has different options for when its plugged and unplugged.
it has nothing to do with the current going in when its plugged, trust me.

There is the exact quote from Edix. While this statement may be interpreted different ways, you've a very specific take on it. Context is kinda critical here... go back to the OP, read my post just before Edix's, then read his. He is clearly implying full power setting will resolve OP concerns. This is false. This was the context of my message to "Please do not spread misinformation." notice how civil that was? He is incorrect; it has everything to do with the current coming from the PSU as without it there is the 100w limit.

Okay so here you go it looks like you got me here "The battery limits the system to a 100w draw," I think it is more than abundantly clear from my other post that this was not my intent when taken literally so here ya go "The battery restrictions limit the system to a 100w draw,"

If you want to hang your hat on a hastily posted message, go for it! It doesn't change the point I was making it also doesn't change that you keep changing up what your point of contention is. So long as you can find something wrong I guess.

Also really your rebuttal is a 3 y.o. laptop no longer in production with an at the time low end graphics card didn't have a power restriction... I'll give ya that to, your really racking them up. For what it is worth the system pulls around 100w at load mmm I've seen that number somewhere before...

Seems to me your points are all coming down to splitting hairs. Where as the fundamental truth of what I am saying is yet to be contested.

You may also care to read this bit in that review: "The Razer Blade is the only laptop in this roundup that doesn’t dial down its graphics performance when unplugged"

Kinda refutes your statement:


Yes, the onus is on me to prove that ASUS didn't produce a quality product.

Clearly insinuating that the power restriction is because the g751 is a low quality product. When 7 of the 8 products in that review, and every laptop I considered before getting the g751 does the exact same thing. Kinda makes it more of an industry standard thing and less of a quality thing don't ya think? <-- oh look I didn't call you a liar, I also provided rationale and reference behind my assertions when refuting yours MMmmm you know that wasn't hard to do, just FYI.