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Cryx
01-19-2016, 12:07 AM
Hello Asus-Fans,

my G752vt with integrated 1tb hdd and 256gb oem ssd (951 nvme i guess?) arrived today.

I configured/updated windows10 and noticed the extremly bad AS SSD Benchmark.
Reading seq: 1800MB/S
Writing seq: 5MB/S (yes it is correct)

I just disabled "Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" and got this results:
Reading seq: 1800MB/S
Writing seq: 1200MB/S

WTF? Is this the ordinary way? How do i know if my ssd work correctly?

I dont want to get problems because auf faulty drivers or something.
Sorry iam not a native english speaker. :)

woolfman72
01-19-2016, 12:25 AM
what are you using to test it? this is my 950 pro using crystaldiskmark.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 5.1.1 x64 (C) 2007-2016 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) : 2510.912 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) : 1511.359 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 529.712 MB/s [129324.2 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 269.031 MB/s [ 65681.4 IOPS]
Sequential Read (T= 1) : 1954.675 MB/s
Sequential Write (T= 1) : 1488.973 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 44.848 MB/s [ 10949.2 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 172.507 MB/s [ 42116.0 IOPS]

Test : 1024 MiB [C: 34.8% (165.4/475.7 GiB)] (x5) [Interval=5 sec]
Date : 2016/01/18 19:23:36
OS : Windows 10 [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

Gps3dx
01-19-2016, 12:30 AM
my G752vt ...
I configured/updated windows10 and noticed the extremly bad AS SSD Benchmark.
Reading seq: 1800MB/S
Writing seq: 5MB/S (yes it is correct)

I just disabled "Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" and got this results:
Reading seq: 1800MB/S
Writing seq: 1200MB/S


Hi there... welcome to ROG's central forum.

A Short google for "Windows write-cache" and "ssd" gives you this results among others:
http://www.theeldergeek.com/windows_7/solid_state_drive_setup_07.htm
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/whitepaper/whitepaper12.html

In short - if you want performance more then data integrity -> disable "Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device".

Another thing that you might want to try when running on NVMe drive, is the NVMe driver it self.
It is known that Microsoft ( MS ) driver is CRAP in terms of performance.... thus it is advisable to try to use Intel's NVMe driver or the driver of your drive (ssd) manufacture.

also, on another thread, similar topic, users have reported bad performance of Samsung's EVO 950 driver on win10.
They stated that users with this ssd should wait for a driver update to solve these performance issues.

Cryx
01-19-2016, 12:45 AM
Hello thanks.

I know what "Windows write-cache" does, but i dont know if its the ordinary way to get my SSD working the way in meant to be.
ASUS should install the correkt driver itself. Maybe iam a exception and i just need to sent my notebook back for a new one?

Samsungs 950 pro driver tells me that it can not find any SSD.
The same issue for "Samsung SSD Magician Tool".

JustinThyme
01-19-2016, 04:30 AM
Can you please run a benchmark with crystalmark?
I'm running a 512GB 950 pro that was installed by cloning the original 256GB SM951 NVMe that came with the machine, I have a G752VY DH72 . I didn't tweak anything and get speeds comparable to what woolfman72 posted using the so called "crap" Windows native NVMe driver. The Intel RST driver you will read everyone posting about is not an NVMe driver, it's the chipset raid controller driver that is also native to this machine out of the box, although there is an updated version that I noted no improvement from. Samsung software and NVMe driver has compatibility issues with seeing past the raid controller. Everyone running the CM236 chipset has had the same experience and it's not isolated to just this chipset or to ASUS products for that matter. I have noted that my benchmarks are also comparable with machines that have been able to use the Samsung driver and Samsung magician software. Write cache should be disabled, there is even a tweak for the in Samsung software that specifically states the SSDs do not use it and it slows performance. Trim Functions and trash are also natively handled by win 8.1 and up. You don't have to worry about over provisioning unless you run your drive close to capacity. If you want to over pro ion you don't need Samsung software for that either. Simply create a partition that's about 10% of your capacity and leave it Unallocated.

The only thing you can't do without the software is update the drives firmware or use samsungs rapid mode that is over rated IMO. Just FYI the software doesn't see the 850 EVO drive on this chipset correctly either. I posted up some screen shots in the 950 pro new info thread towards the end.

Cryx
01-19-2016, 01:04 PM
Can you please run a benchmark with crystalmark?.
Thanks for your reply.
Seems that the Problem only appears on the AS SSD Benchmark. The Crystal one is fine.


I dont have any microsoft nvme drivers. The 1TB HDD and the 256gb SSD got the same driver. (See my Picture)
Shouldn't the driver be different for HDD and SSD?
I found this Screenshot at Google: http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/nvme-controller.jpg

JustinThyme
01-19-2016, 02:05 PM
Awesome!
From what I see your speeds are actually in the right ballpark. Maybe a little tweaking here and there will make slight improvements to speeds but you are close. I noticed the same with the AS SSD benchmark and came to the conclusion that not everything is working perfectly across multiple platforms. NVMe is new and evolving technology and sometimes being on the cutting edge has its challenges. The drivers you see are actually two very different drivers, they wer just all compiled on the same date with the OS. If you look at the date they are also shown to be very old but NVMe drivers were not present until Win 8.1 which wasnt until well after 2006! The screen grab on legit reviews is for an NVMe controller on a different platform, ASUS X99 Sabertooth motherboard desktop application. It has a controller completely separate just for the NVME plugged into a PCIe slot. What you have is exactly what I have except I installed the latest Intel RST driver.

I have found that updating the Intel RST drivers will all you to see some of the functions and the drives in Samsung magician although its been noted by several people, myself included, that the 950 pro will show up as a second version of the 850 or an off the wall number. For me appears as an exact duplicate until you look to the size on the right of the screen and it shows that the true 850 is 1TB and the 950 shown as another 850 is 512MB. After the update of the Intel drivers it also has some limitied functionality but noting that you cant accomplish with other means. It will tell you that AHCI is deactivated on the SATA drive, and show N/A for SATA interface.

You can download 64bit Intel RST AHCI & RAID drivers v14.8.1.1043 WHQL HERE (http://www.smartredirect.de/redir/clickGate.php?u=CHoN7d6s&m=1&p=3r6MDbeCf4&t=6QdegMhg&st=&s=&splash=2&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23!NF0A2KKQ!3bflvdMoP mH84EHDJJQEnCPNbIZQUVUBPJyErmWCzPc&r=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.win-raid.com%2Ft2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html)

Credit to Win-raid forums (http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html) for the driver

Simply extract then follow the usual process in device manager to update the driver, just point it to the file you extracted and it grans it right up, no problems. This is the driver for the Intel Chipset Sata RAID controller just so you dont go looking for I RST in device manager.

One more quick tweak that I can recommended is disabling prefetch and superfetch. These just store some drivers and services in the main memory for faster access as it improved overall machine performance with spinners but causes excessive reads and writes. The speed of SSDs is plenty fast so this is not needed when deploying your OS from a SSD.

It requires a registry tweak so the usual discalimer applies here to always back up your registry before making changes and proceed at your own risk.

Type Regedit into the search box next to the start button and select regedit when it pops up at the top. (I save it to the start menu for faster access ater)

Navigate to the file path "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\SessionManager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters"
Right-click on EnablePrefetcher
Select Modify and change the value to 0
Right-click on EnableSuperfetch
Again Select Modify and change the to 0
Restart

All done


Hope you are able to use at least some of this. It all works for me on a G752 DH72:cool:

Cryx
01-19-2016, 05:21 PM
Thanks JustinThyme,

its good to know iam not the only one.
I updated the Intel RST AHCI & RAID driver as you said.

AS SSD seems broken. https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3u0t6z/psa_dont_use_as_ssd_benchmark_to_test_your_ssd/)
Surface User,s got the same problem.

The only thing iam worry about is, that there is no nvme driver. No ssd-tools recognize the SSD.
Also I dont think Windows 10 recognize it as nvme one. I cant believe this is the correkt Windows nvme driver.
Maybe iam wrong. I will keep the notebook and maybe ASUS will update some drivers soon. :)

JustinThyme
01-20-2016, 02:55 PM
Its being recognized as an NVMe drive and using the correct Win 10 default drivers for it. That number and date is on most of the default drivers for the OS. The Samsung tools dont see the 850 EVO SATAIII SSD on this platform either and IMO are over rated. The only thing that the Samsung software can do that you cannot by other means is update the SSD firmware. Also this is not limited to ASUS nor do I see it as their problem. Like everyone else they source the chipset elsewhere. This one happens to be Intel CM236. Of course also like anywhere else you get the finger pointing game of whose fault it is that one thing wont work with the other.

In the end, note that Samsung drivers and Samsung Magician do not ship with any PC that employs Samsung drives, NONE! Doesn't matter who makes it. Samsung summarily declines support for OEM SSDs and directs you to the manufacturer. The software and drivers are marketed at the consumer purchase level such as the SATAIII drives and the 950 pro and dont work on those either across multiple platforms.

bignadad
01-28-2016, 11:46 PM
Justin
I have read a lot of your posts here and have a question. I am getting my G752VY-DH72 and 950 pro tomorrow. So should I just put the 950 in secondary slot and clone primary that it shipped with to it? Is that better than a clean install?
If so what cloning software did you use? The Samsung migration tool?

Also can I put another m2 ssd in the secondary slot and use it as well? I would have the 950 in primary, a 512 m2 in secondary and a 2tb sata III.

One more thing is that when i clone the 256 that it shipped with to my 512 950 pro I'll have unpartioned space on the 512 right? I can expand that to the main partition?

Thanks for any feedback u can give.

JustinThyme
01-29-2016, 02:18 AM
Justin
I have read a lot of your posts here and have a question. I am getting my G752VY-DH72 and 950 pro tomorrow. So should I just put the 950 in secondary slot and clone primary that it shipped with to it? Is that better than a clean install?
If so what cloning software did you use? The Samsung migration tool?

Also can I put another m2 ssd in the secondary slot and use it as well? I would have the 950 in primary, a 512 m2 in secondary and a 2tb sata III.

One more thing is that when i clone the 256 that it shipped with to my 512 950 pro I'll have unpartioned space on the 512 right? I can expand that to the main partition?

Thanks for any feedback u can give.

Hey Brother. Putting the 950 pro in the second M2 slot and cloning it is precisely what I did. The Samsung Data migration software works great and is probably one of the fastest and if you just choose the automatic function it will add the unallocated space to the same partition. Then after just shut it down and put the 950 where the stock one is and you are all set. Yes you can put another M2 in if you want. Ive just left mine empty. I put the stock one away for rescue missions as needed. I havent had to use it on this machine yet but I've seem a lot of others who would have benefited from that posting here. Then if I need to RMA its not a long drawn out process either, just put the original back and and good to go.

IMO I prefer cloning the original as is. You get the recovery partitions etc over with it if needed and there isn't that much bloatware like what you get on Best Buy machines that are nearly impossible to get rid of. Took me all of 15 minutes to uninstall the software I don't want. That way you are starting out with drivers already there and wont have any issues getting the machine up and running. You can update drivers that need it after the fact. Some prefer doing a clean install and swear it gives better performance etc, I'm not one of them, at least not on this machine.

Good luck with your new rig, I'm enjoying mine and if you go down the memory expansion road be sure to read the thread Ive posted on this model and save yourself a major headache! LOL

As of now I have the 512GB 950 Pro and a 1TB 850EVO. I have so many USB 3.0 external drives and enough NAS network drives to store enough media to last a life time.

bignadad
01-29-2016, 01:24 PM
Thanks for your reply and the info.

I originally bought a G75VW a couple years ago and now using a G751JY. Really love this ROG series. I don't do a lot of gaming but instead need this much power for Android app developing and video editing. I carry my laptop everywhere and need that portability to have all of my apps and docs with me at all times.

A question about the 950 Pro. I see all the posts on this forum about incompatibility with drivers. Is that still and issue? Basically what I read is that the drive will work and function but the samsung drivers cannot be installed so the drive is not used to its potential. is that true?

Also, I think i read that you updated to bios 208 with no issues as others have reported? is that also true?

JustinThyme
01-30-2016, 12:07 AM
I have seen no problems on the NVMe drivers that are native in Win 8.1 and later. Not using Samsung drivers or Samsung magician. Trim and trash are also taken care of by the OS. The only thing the OS doesn't do by itself is over provisioning leaving you extra space for when cells eventually go bad. Thats easy enough to do yourself by simply leaving about 10% of the drive unallocated, same thing Samsung Magician does. Same goes for other performance tweaks that are in Samsung magician. There are ways to do them without that software.

I dont know about it not being used to its potential. Ive seen a lot of people post that with no benchmarks to back it up but I've not seen that in the least. My Benchmarks are on par with platforms that can install the Samsung drivers. Have a look around at some of the other platforms that reviewed this drive and did install the Samsung drivers. Their results are close enough to be called the same in my book.

Im running the 950 Pro in a G752VY, I haven't tried it on a G751JY and don't think anyone has been successful with it. I saw one user post up he got it in there and got it to boot but with a hacked bios but the speeds were horrendous. They have been running the Samsung SM951 AHCI version with nice speeds though.

The only time I had issues with the 208 BIOS was after changing out the stock RAM. Other have reported problems and all from different regions. At this point in time I don't see any usable difference between 206 and 208 and with others having issues there is really no point in bothering. The update page says it updated the IRST BIOS drivers but I haven't seen any change. in how it works. The only difference I have noted is the boot takes a couple seconds longer.

Zares
02-01-2016, 03:16 PM
Does Asus use the faster SM951 for their G752 series for 256 & 512 GB and the slower PM951 only for 128 GB? Or do some 256 GB models also have the slower PM951?

I want to buy a G752VY-GC263T (Version for Germany). It has i7-6700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 980M 8GB, 1 TB 7200rpm HDD and 256 GB SSD. Can't find out what SSD it is though. I've asked the retailer but they can't give me an answer and when I emailed Asus a while ago to ask something else they gave me a spec sheet of the model which also doesn't state which SSD is being used.

What baffles me is that there is another version (G752VY-GC083T) that has the same specs except it has only 4GB VRAM instead of 8GB and the HDD is a 5400rpm instead of the 7200rpm and it costs the same (2100). So maybe I'm thinking the model with the 980M 8GB has the slower SSD since to me it wouldn't make sense if Asus has 2 models that are almost identical and retail at the same price but one is worse.

Otot
02-01-2016, 04:12 PM
Does Asus use the faster SM951 for their G752 series for 256 & 512 GB and the slower PM951 only for 128 GB? Or do some 256 GB models also have the slower PM951?

I want to buy a G752VY-GC263T (Version for Germany). It has i7-6700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 980M 8GB, 1 TB 7200rpm HDD and 256 GB SSD. Can't find out what SSD it is though. I've asked the retailer but they can't give me an answer and when I emailed Asus a while ago to ask something else they gave me a spec sheet of the model which also doesn't state which SSD is being used.

What baffles me is that there is another version (G752VY-GC083T) that has the same specs except it has only 4GB VRAM instead of 8GB and the HDD is a 5400rpm instead of the 7200rpm and it costs the same (2100). So maybe I'm thinking the model with the 980M 8GB has the slower SSD since to me it wouldn't make sense if Asus has 2 models that are almost identical and retail at the same price but one is worse.
Hi, ich habe das G752VY exakt mit dieser Ausstattung bei computeruniverse gekauft und es ist die SM951 drin.

Gre

Zares
02-01-2016, 04:21 PM
Hi, ich habe das G752VY exakt mit dieser Ausstattung bei computeruniverse gekauft und es ist die SM951 drin.

Gre

Okay, danke!

JustinThyme
02-01-2016, 04:37 PM
Unfortunately I cant speak intelligently for what is being installed in other regions, seems the offerings and hardware used can vary quite a bit.

What I can tell you is in the US all the G752VY machines are coming with the Samsung SM951NVMe drives. As of now there have been 3 models in the US.
The first was the RH71 that came with the 980M 4GB, 16GB of RAM 2x8gb sticks which limits it to 32GB total. 128GB SM951 with 1TB 7200rpm hdd and DVD ROM. MSRP $1999

Next up the DH72. 980M 4GB, 32GB RAM 2x16GB for max of 64GB, 256GB SM951, 1 TB 7200RPM HDD and Bluray. MSRP $2599

Last the flagship model 980M 8GB, 64GB RAM, 2x256GB SM951 (this one is a bit controversial as they advertise 512GB but dont specify how that will be delivered and users are not happy with 2 smaller drives instead of one 512GB drive) 1TB 7200RPM HDD and Bluray. MSRP $3499.

The only time you see outside of these specs in the US is when some electronics retailer like Best Buy special orders them, they get a different model number specific to Best Buy only then they market them for the same prices with lesser hardware. Like one model that stripped the RAM all the way back to 8GB and put a 1TB 5400rpm drive in it and loaded it with tons of bloatware free of charge yet charged the same as a 32GB model with a 128GB SSD and 1TB 7200rpm drive in it.

Currently in the US there is only one that comes with the 8GB VRAM and its fully loaded.
http://store.asus.com/us/item/201510AM090006013/A38824

Zares
02-01-2016, 04:46 PM
Unfortunately I cant speak intelligently for what is being installed in other regions, seems the offerings and hardware used can vary quite a bit.

What I can tell you is in the US all the G752VY machines are coming with the Samsung SM951NVMe drives. As of now there have been 3 models in the US.
The first was the RH71 that came with the 980M 4GB, 16GB of RAM 2x8gb sticks which limits it to 32GB total. 128GB SM951 with 1TB 7200rpm hdd and DVD ROM. MSRP $1999

Next up the DH72. 980M 4GB, 32GB RAM 2x16GB for max of 64GB, 256GB SM951, 1 TB 7200RPM HDD and Bluray. MSRP $2599

Last the flagship model 980M 8GB, 64GB RAM, 2x256GB SM951 (this one is a bit controversial as they advertise 512GB but dont specify how that will be delivered and users are not happy with 2 smaller drives instead of one 512GB drive) 1TB 7200RPM HDD and Bluray. MSRP $3499.

The only time you see outside of these specs in the US is when some electronics retailer like Best Buy special orders them, they get a different model number specific to Best Buy only then they market them for the same prices with lesser hardware. Like one model that stripped the RAM all the way back to 8GB and put a 1TB 5400rpm drive in it and loaded it with tons of bloatware free of charge yet charged the same as a 32GB model with a 128GB SSD and 1TB 7200rpm drive in it.

Currently in the US there is only one that comes with the 8GB VRAM and its fully loaded.
http://store.asus.com/us/item/201510AM090006013/A38824

Thanks for the input. The guy above already confirmed that he has the same model and it features a SM951. I was a bit unsure because of this review:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-G752VT-Notebook-Review.153805.0.html

It's for the G752VT with 128 GB and has the PM951. The OP of this thread has a VT aswell but a 256 GB and had the SM951 inside so I wasn't sure if it's the same case with the VY models since there aren't many detailed reviews out there for those.

Just placed an order on my G752VY. Should arrive within 2-3 days.