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View Full Version : G751JY slower reads/writes using external SATA 3 SSD to Thunderbolt than USB 3.0



Jon G
02-13-2016, 06:29 PM
If you have a G751JY notebook BIOS AS211 (all latest ASUS G751JY notebook Windows 10 drivers) running updated Windows 10 64-bit OS don't waste your money trying to use any external SATA 3 SSD to Thunderbolt enclosures. I purchased a $85 US Delock 42510 (2.5" Enclosure SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt 10Gb/s plus additional $29US OCW 3m Thunderbolt 20Gb/s cable.
Everything installed including Delocks' 42510 included Windows (Asmedia chipset) driver and shows up on system with no issues. I placed a spare 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD into the Delock 42510 2.5" Enclosure SATA 3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt. Using 5 different SSD Benchmark tools (Futuremark PCMark8-storage bench, Crystal Diskmark v5.1.1 64bit, Samsung Magician- SSD Performance Test, AS-SSD, Iometer, etc.) the 512GB Crucial MX100 runs at max 390 MB/s on Sequential Reads & only 330 MB/s on Sequential Writes inside this Delock 42510 2.5" Enclosure SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt 10Gb/s.
The same 512GB Crucial MX100 consistently runs at up to 440 MB/s Seq. Reads & 420 MB/s Seq. Writes when
installed in any of my 3 $12-$16 US external SATA3 HDD/SSD to USB 3.0 Adapter/enclosures
( Nexstar NST-266S3-SV, Inateck FE2005-black, Mediasonic H21-SU3 Probox).
This makes no sense that on a perfectly running, completely upgraded, updated ASUS G751JY notebook running
Windows 10 64-bit OS w/ latest AS211 BIOS that supposedly has a 20Gb/s Thunderbolt port (which is actually
Thunderbolt II Specs) that the Windows 10 drivers for Thunderbolt provided by ASUS G751JY notebook support as well as other third party Thunderbolt device Manufacturers have limited the Thunderbolt 20Gb/s port to a 4Gb/s
storage port. Using any SSD externally in an expensive external SATA3 SSD to Thunderbolt Adapter/enclosure is not a viable option with ASUS G751JY notebook despite not having any other Thunderbolt devices chained to it.
System Specs are:
ASUS G751JY-DH71 notebook w/ latest AS211 BIOS
Intel HM87 Express Chipset w/ Intel Core i7-4710 CPU
32GB DDR3L 1600 SODIMM
Nvidia GTX 980M 4GB GPU
512GB Samsung SM951 PCIe Gen3 (AHCI) M.2 OS SSD
1TB Samsung 850 Pro Storage SSD
Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64-bit (retail USB Flash version) OS

Thunderbolt storage supposedly allows for the full SATA 3 6Gb/s specs with room to spare.
The 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD ran close to 550 MB/s Seq. Reads & 500 MB/s Seq. Writes when I had it installed in
the second drive bay of G751JY notebook using SATA 3 port 1 with SATA 3 6" Cable extension fed under
notebooks SATA Ports bridge. These are the speeds that this notebooks 20Gb/s Thunderbolt port should have
(full SATA 3 6Gb/s) when using any SATA 3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt external Adapter/enclosures.
On ASUS G751JY notebook using Windows 10 OS Thunderbolt storage is actually slower than USB 3.0?

JustinThyme
02-14-2016, 02:36 AM
The problem may be in your enclosure. Is The Thunderbolt firmware up to date?

BVr77
02-14-2016, 08:19 AM
may be the PB isn't comming from the laptop hardware ?

you say that drivers are up to date, ok but you never tell us what version you're using for the asmedia chipset and the TB chipset.

it's the same with the chipset firmware.

Jon G
02-15-2016, 02:00 AM
I used the supplied Delock 42510 2.5" Enclosure SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt 10Gb/s install CD for Windows
Asmedia ASM1061. I checked on the Delock website & it's the same Asmedia chipset Windows driver currently
offered. The firmware revision on the 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD is MU02 the most current offered & the drive
shows up as healthy, 14% used space on both Crucial Storage Executive version 3.24.082015.05 &
Samsung Magician ( both SSD Storage tools are latest Windows 10 64-bit versions).
The 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD is 46* C idle in the self powered Delock 42510 2.5" Enclosure SATA3 HDD/SSD
to Thunderbolt 10Gb/s.
Maybe this new external Delock 42510 2.5" SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt enclosure is faulty somehow but
the installed 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD shows up on my system fine & is easily accessed.
It's odd that in this Thunderbolt 10Gb/s enclosure that the SSD doesn't run at full SATA3 6Gb/s & in fact runs
slower than in any of my 3 external SATA3 SSD/HDD to USB 3.0 5Gb/s enclosures.
I can't figure out why, it makes no sense. I installed everything per the Delock 42510 Thunderbolt enclosure
user manual & it all installed easily & works.
Yet the 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD gets under 390MB/s Sequential Reads & under 340MB/s Sequential Writes
in this Delock 42510 Thunderbolt 10Gb/s enclosure no matter which SSD Benchmark tool I use.
In any of my 3 external SATA 3 SSD to USB 3.0 Adapter/enclosures the 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD runs at
close to 440 MB/s Sequential Reads & btw. 400-420 MB/s Sequential Writes.
How can an SATA3 6Gb/s SSD run faster using external, bus powered USB 3.0 5Gb/s enclosures versus
in an external, self powered, Thunderbolt 10Gb/s enclosure when attached to ASUS ROG G751JY notebook?
All suggestions much appreciated. I'm stumped on this one.

JustinThyme
02-15-2016, 03:44 AM
I haven't tried the thunderbolt port yet, mine is Thunderbolt 3 so not much on the market just yet. Waiting on a dock that is going to be released in April.

Someone on the string of conversions is not playing nicely or is not optimized. Keep in mind that what is going on here is a conversion from PCI to SATA to TB to enclosure to SATA to SSD and then back again. One thing out of whack along the way and it's not going to work right. Being limited to a single device to use in diagnostics limits your ability. If there were several different things to try it would be easier to narrow down what the problem is. Maybe another drive to try in the enclosure? Just because it works fine using another protocol doesn't mean it will work fine in the enclosure.

BVr77
02-15-2016, 05:42 AM
Let's go for another BLABLABLA ...
and you still give us no drivers version and no firmware revision of the asmedia chipset .....
and the same about Thunderbolt.
so .....

Jon G
02-15-2016, 03:50 PM
Let's go for another BLABLABLA ...
and you still give us no drivers version and no firmware revision of the asmedia chipset .....
and the same about Thunderbolt.
so .....
As previously stated the Asmedia chipset driver is ASM1061 latest Thunderbolt Windows certified driver. I can't find the firmware revision anywhere for this Delock 42510 enclosures Asmedia chipset. As far as my ASUS G751JY
notebook, all latest Windows 10 drivers, latest AS211 BIOS.
Delock support responded to my support form stating they benchmarked the enclosure on an older Apple OSX
system with a Thunderbolt I port using an SATA3 SSD and got 410MB/s Seq. Reads & 340 MB/s Seq. Writes
but gave no other specifics. I know benchmarks of HDD/SSD's on Apple OSX systems usually much lower than any
windows systems. My hunch is that the problem is not anything relating to the G751JY Thunderbolt 20Gb/s port or driver but simply the Delock 42510 Asmedia chipset ASM1061 Widows driver is not optimized.
This is the least expensive external 2.5" SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt 10Gb/s enclosure I have found
anywhere only $85 US versus all other Thunderbolt enclosures selling for $200-$300 US.
You get what you pay for so I'll return this enclosure for full refund and eventually purchase an Akitio 2.5" SATA3
SSD to Thunderbolt II enclosure instead $300 US.

JustinThyme
02-15-2016, 04:08 PM
Let's go for another BLABLABLA ...
and you still give us no drivers version and no firmware revision of the asmedia chipset .....
and the same about Thunderbolt.
so .....

Do you have the same system and enclosure and drive where you can test different drivers to see if that is the problem? Or you just going for another Bla Bla Bla spam post?

From what Ive read he has actually been overly diligent in providing information.

Trying another enclosure could be a step in the right direction. Don't feel too bad, I have to wait because TB3 hasnt hit the mainstream yet. The dock Im waiting for will run 2 4K monitors, or so it says. Not that I would try to put that much burden on a 980M graphics card anyhow.

Jon G
02-15-2016, 09:25 PM
Thanks JustinThyme your suggestions are greatly appreciated. You must have an awesome, 2015/16 ASUS G752VY notebook or better. I wish more people with ASUS G751JY/JT, G751VY/VT notebooks were using the TB 1, TB2, TB3 (USB3.1) ports for external storage solutions. Then we could get more feedback to compare results & work through issues. Seems most who have TB1,TB2, TB3 use them solely for additional displays but not external storage.
It's probably due to the TB1 & TB2 external storage device enclosures costing so much $ (even without any
included 2.5" HDD/SSD's. The TB2 enclosures run $300 US - $1500 US & usually come w/ raided HDD's or SSD's.
The $85 US Delock 42510 2.5" Enclosure SATA3 HDD/SSD > Thunderbolt 10Gb/s tier 1 support didn't provide
much info in their response other than to give their single, unadvertised, unofficial benchmark score
on an Apple OSX w/ TB1 (Apple Lightening) port of 410 MB/s Seq. Read & 340 MB/s Seq. Write.
My 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD runs faster then that using external SATA3 HDD/SSD to USB 3.0 enclosures.
As you previously suggested because of all the overhead, combined with a non hardware raid 0,
single SATA drive to TB1 enclosure (that obviously isn't using an Optimized Thunderbolt Windows certified driver)
these are the data rates to expect, slower then USB 3.0.
The only difference the additional bandwidth of TB1, TB2, TB3 provides doesn't equate to allowing external
storage to run at full SATA3 6Gp/s but instead allows a greater number of TB devices to be daisy chained
to a single TB port w/out impacting performance as much as numerous USB 3.0 bus powered devices are?

Gps3dx
02-15-2016, 10:11 PM
There are a lot of parameters to take in when talking about the speed of W and R through TB.

1st of all @Jon G - how did you deduct that on the G751 serie TB is 4Gb/s ( i.e bits not bytes ) ?
2nd, AFAIK the G751 got 1st Gen TB, which suppose to give 10Gb/s NOT 20Gb/s as TB Gen 2 (aka Falcon Ridge) suppose to give ( according to this review ) (http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/6249/thunderbolt-2-ready-for-windows-with-the-asus-thunderboltex-ii/index.html)

there might be parameters within the driver ( through device manager ) that can be changed like "Override 1st device in chain restriction" (http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/2/6249_31_thunderbolt_2_ready_for_windows_with_the_a sus_thunderboltex_ii.png) which might effect transfer speed.

Also as stated in the mentioned review and I quote:
"I recommend doing is setting theCache-line size to 128 as it seems to affect performance by a fair margin."
Thus, if current bios not allows to play with "Cache-line size" value->a modded bios might give you that ability, as you can see that it is possible to toggle the appearance of "cache-line size" ( at least for the G751JT BIOS which I show in the end of this post ).

There is also another BIOS parameter that might effect external storage behavior like stated HERE under # 177,178 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?132442-New-Workstation-Build-i7-X99-Titan-X-Overclocking/page18) named "TB device i/o resource support", which also appears in the bios's hidden menus.
55674

Jon G
02-17-2016, 11:07 PM
There are a lot of parameters to take in when talking about the speed of W and R through TB.

1st of all @Jon G - how did you deduct that on the G751 serie TB is 4Gb/s ( i.e bits not bytes ) ?
2nd, AFAIK the G751 got 1st Gen TB, which suppose to give 10Gb/s NOT 20Gb/s as TB Gen 2 (aka Falcon Ridge) suppose to give ( according to this review ) (http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/6249/thunderbolt-2-ready-for-windows-with-the-asus-thunderboltex-ii/index.html)

there might be parameters within the driver ( through device manager ) that can be changed like "Override 1st device in chain restriction" (http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/2/6249_31_thunderbolt_2_ready_for_windows_with_the_a sus_thunderboltex_ii.png) which might effect transfer speed.

Also as stated in the mentioned review and I quote:
"I recommend doing is setting theCache-line size to 128 as it seems to affect performance by a fair margin."
Thus, if current bios not allows to play with "Cache-line size" value->a modded bios might give you that ability, as you can see that it is possible to toggle the appearance of "cache-line size" ( at least for the G751JT BIOS which I show in the end of this post ).

There is also another BIOS parameter that might effect external storage behavior like stated HERE under # 177,178 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?132442-New-Workstation-Build-i7-X99-Titan-X-Overclocking/page18) named "BT device i/o resource support", which also appears in the bios's hidden menus.
55674

Thanks Gps3dx for the useful information, much appreciated.

After much research on external SATA3 HDD/SSD to Thunderbolt enclosures vs SATA3 HDD/SSD to USB3.0
enclosures it is common knowledge that unless you are using a multi bay SATA3 HDD/SSD w/ hardware raid0
to Thunderbolt enclosure that a single SSD will seldom peak much above 410MB/s Read & 340MB/s Write
using Thunderbolt. That changes when using several SSD's in a raid0 striped array (upwards of 750MB/s
Read 700MB/s Write on Thunderbolt. Which means spending a whole lot of money on an external multi bay
SATA3 2.5" HDD/SSD (w/ hardware raid0) to Thunderbolt enclosure to receive the10Gb/s or more bandwidth
Thunderbolt for storage offers over USB 3.0, like the $473US Star Tech 4-Bay SATA3 HDD/SSD
(w/ hardware Raid) to Thunderbolt 2 20Gb/s external enclosure on Amazon.com. I'm sure 2 or more
high performance, legacy SATA3 SSD's in a hardware RAID0 Striped array could deliver better than
SATA3 6Gb/s on TB1 or TB2 unlike vs external SATA3 SSD to USB3.0 5Gb/s!
I got my G751JY notebook 20Gb/s specs off the ASUS G751JY product page. I doubt ASUS would claim 20Gb/s
on the G751JY Thunderbolt port if it were only 10Gb/s as you state. Just go to the older ASUS G751JY product
page (not under system specs), on the first page scroll down through and it states Thunderbolt 20Gb/s
for the latest 4K Displays & external storage. The ASUS "Falcon Ridge" Thunderbolt EX II Desktop MB article
sited is dated April 2014, 6 months before the October 2014 release of the ASUS ROG G751JY DH71/DX72
notebook debut. Even before the later ASUS G751JY's w/ G-Sync, ASUS G751JY product page claimed
Thunderbolt 20Gb/s.