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Lismail0
12-31-2011, 02:11 AM
For Christmas I got the 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1866MHz upgrade kit. So I took out my battery and held down the power button for 30 seconds to drain the electricity from the board. I then removed my original 14 gigs of ram and installed the two new corsair sticks into the the first and second slot on the board.

It booted up and ran great for a couple of hours then it blue screened for the first time. I thought nothing of it hoping it was nothing serious. For the next couple of days it ran smoothly except for 1 or 2 more blue screens. But finally a few days ago my computer started to blue screen very frequently and it blue screened during a windows update and corrupted my boot.

At that point i was done. So i tried to re install windows and it kept blue screening so i decided to switch out the the new ram for the original ram and it didn't blue screen once. So that led me to believe the problem was the new ram. With that in mind i tested each stick of the new ram separately with memtest and no errors were found.

Also when I just had one stick of the new ram in at a time it didn't blue screen.

So I'm wondering if it is a compatibility issue because i know people have been running Kingston's hyper-x 1866 speed ram fine with out problems. Maybe i'm doing something wrong I don't know.

My laptop model and processor:
Asus G74SX-dh73-3d
Intel i7 2760qm 2.4ghz

Thanks, I look forward to your posts!

dstrakele
12-31-2011, 03:07 AM
What is the Bugcheck Code reported in the BugCheck source events in the System Event Log?

Are there any other Warnings or Errors in the System or Application Event Logs that may point to a troubleshooting direction?

What happens if you install the new memory in slots 1 and 3?

Lismail0
12-31-2011, 03:51 AM
I'm not sure I can check the event log because i'm running on a clean installation since the crashes. But I will try and install the ram in slots 1 and 3 and see if that runs smoothly. Either way i'll get back to you. Thanks.

dstrakele
12-31-2011, 04:15 AM
No worries about the event log... If you've done a clean install, you've eliminated a lot of potential problems. If it runs stable as it is, I wouldn't worry about swapping the memory slots (unless you determined it wasn't running in dual channel mode in slots 1 and 2).

BrodyBoy
12-31-2011, 06:00 AM
So I'm wondering if it is a compatibility issue because i know people have been running Kingston's hyper-x 1866 speed ram fine with out problems.
Where have you seen this? It's been my impression that the G74 owners who have tried 1866 RAM have not gotten it to run successfully at speed. It's not a supported RAM spec, which of course doesn't always mean anything....but in this case, I think you may have just run into a basic incompatibility.

fostert
12-31-2011, 02:32 PM
I think I recall a few people here who got these successfully running at 1866 but only had two SODIMMs installed (i.e. 8 GB). It was those who tried to run 4x4=16GB that found they would only run at 1333MHz. Referring to http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?2503-Kingston-HyperX-1866-PnP-SODIMM-Memory/page2
Perhaps you could PM wanfeilwong and/or dcmr1888 and ask them how they got their 8GB working at 1866?

Lismail0
12-31-2011, 06:14 PM
Well I tried installing the ram in slots 1 and 3 and it seems to be running smoothly so far. I've booted into windows and have been messing around for about an hour or so with out a single blue screen. So i suppose that is better than blue screening during every boot lol. I will keep you guys updated and let you know if it remains stable. Thanks for the help.

Lismail0
12-31-2011, 07:26 PM
OK so I decided to do a few test and share the results. I used CPU-Z to gather the information.

-Original ram installed into slots 1 and 2-
*Dram Frequency: 665.3MHz
*FSB : DRAM :1:5
* Timing: 9-9-9-24
* Command rate:1T

-Corsair Vengeance installed into slots 1 and 2-
*blue screens during boot

-Corsair Vengeance installed into slots 1 and 3-
*Dram Frequency: 665.3MHz
*FSB : DRAM :1:5
* Timing: 6-6-6-20
* Command rate:2T

-Corsair Vengeance installed into slot 1-
*Dram Frequency: 931.2MHz-931.7MHz
*FSB : DRAM :1:7
* Timing: 6-6-6-20
* Command rate:2T

So the new ram is working in slots 1 and 3 with faster timings but with the same dram clock as the original ram. And the new ram works with the faster clock and timings when i install only one module. I confused why my computer blue screens when i install the new ram in slots 1 and 2. Also why when i install the new ram into slots 1 and 3 does my dram clock not go up.

fostert
12-31-2011, 11:27 PM
This is **very** illuminating Lismail0. Notice how the latency timings are 6-6-6-20? I come from a desktop overclocking background, and those timings are quite simply impossible with four or even two sticks of RAM running at 1866 MHz (unless you're using LN2...)! We on the forums here have assumed all along that ASUS programmed the BIOS to reject Plug-n-Play JEDEC Serial Presence Detect (SPD) settings and default to 1333MHz speeds when 4 sticks are installed. Now I see what is really happening: its not that the G74's BIOS simply won't support 1866 speeds, its that the integrated memory controller on the CPU can't be overclocked this fast with these timings!! As I say I don't know any IMC that can unless its at -150C.

Something about the BIOS-IMC-DRAM interface is not reading the programmed SPD (probably Intel XMP) settings from the modules properly. The BIOS is receiving 6-6-6-20 and dutifully adjusting itself to use these timings; then it hands this to the IMC (which either chokes or hands it to the RAM with a non-OC voltage) and WHAM! Either it blue screens on boot, or a failed boot is rescued by the BIOS the next time by reverting to 1333 MHz!

One stick runs fine at this because the load on the IMC is not as massive as with two or 4 sticks; hence the default voltage of 1.5V is sufficient. This is why overclockers prefer only 1-2 sticks installed: the IMC reaches the highest speeds then. I'm willing to bet that if the latencies were read properly (11-10-11-27) that the G74 would happily run with 4 sticks of 1866 MHz modules at 1.5V.

Just thinking out loud here. Hopefully this insight will lead ASUS programmers to nail down the BIOS problem that does not allow 4 sticks to run at 1866 MHz: they have to read the right timings with the SPD on the RAM!

Lismail0
01-01-2012, 08:11 AM
That is very interesting fostert thanks for the insight.

I've been doing some more testing and i was able to boot into a flash drive memtest with the corsair ram installed in slots one and two and the the dram speed was 931 with a timing of 10-10-10-27 with dual channel enabled. But of course it started to shoot error codes about 6 minutes into the test and never really stoped i turned the test off after about a thousand errors (lol).

What confuses me the most is how i ran the ram in dual channel mode for a few days with very little blue screens (seriously like 2-3) and now i cant even boot. Why is that?

I'm guessing that the only thing that will make this ram run properly is if Asus released a proper bios that would address this issue, bummer. I guess i'm going to try and get an 8GB kit of the Kingston 1866 ram because i've heard a few reports of rigs running stable with that ram installed into the first and second slot.

Thanks for all the help guys.

fostert
01-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Sorry, I thought your stuff was the Kingston HyperX stuff. Yes, the corsair's timings are a bit tighter than the Kingston's (11-10-11-27).

Did you try memtest with the RAM in slots 1 and 3? What timings are reported there by memtest (i.e. are they the same as cpuz)??

What about putting modules into slots 2 and 4?

Also (very important) you should memtest each stick individually to ensure that there are no errors. if the chips themselves are faulty, then we really can't conclude anything about their behavior in the G74. If there are errors (likely if those timings are still 6-6-6-20) then its 90% likely that they are caused by the overclock. Move the stick around to different slots and test too: do the timings that are read off the stick change?

I'm still suspicious its the timings. 6-6-6-20 @1866 MHz is an OC's dream.

Lismail0
01-01-2012, 06:34 PM
With the new ram in slots one and three the dram was 665MHz and the timings were 6-6-6-20 single channel. So yes they are the same as cpu-z

whenever i install the ram if at least one stick isn't in slot one the computer wont post.

I have tested each stick separately and received no errors after 2 full passes in memtest. I only get errors when the sticks are installed into slots one and two i guess this has something to do with dual channel.

When the timings are at 6-6-6-20 it is in single channel mode with either one stick @ 931MHz or two sticks in slots 1 and 3 @ 665MHz.

fostert
01-01-2012, 07:48 PM
OK, I will assume that you tested them installed in slots 1 and 3 as well and received no errors. Thats good then; there is a configuration where you can use them and gain superb performance of the 6-6-6-20 timings!

Is this corsair memory you got Plug-n-Play, like the Kingston HyperX 1866 stuff? I asumed it was, though I'm not familiar with them since they are quite new. If not, then probably the BIOS doesn't know what to make of it: those sticks certainly won't be rated for 6-6-6-20 latencies at *any* clock speeds, but somehow the BIOS thinks they are.

Ultimately then I don't know why the clock is being read as 1333 MHz and not 1866, except for the poor BIOS on the G74. Happily though you're still going to get *insane* performance with timings like 6-6-6-20! That will more than make up for the slower clock speed, and actually will gain you performance in some applications that swap alot of little files in and out of memory (like some games). Do a little more reading on the net on memory clocks versus latencies (e.g. http://techreport.com/articles.x/15967, and anandtech.com has some good articles too), and you'll see that those timings are really good.

Lismail0
01-01-2012, 09:54 PM
So would i get more performance out of the kingston ram in dual channel with the faster clock or the corsair ram in single channel with the slower clock but faster timings?

Because i'm on the fence about sending these back and getting the kingston ram.

fostert
01-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Well if you were going to run single channel you would have to be running with one stick in there only, and i think you want more RAM than 4GB! Running the Corsair Vengeance installed into slots 1 and 3 (665.3MHz, 6-6-6-20 2T) will give you top performance for most apps that file alot of little bits in and out of RAM. I personally would trade clock speed for tighter timings any day. Clock speed of RAM is *way* overrated: you could buy the absolute best performance RAM available (e.g. 2400 MHz), which will gain you only 2-4% in real world system performance (its true!). Its really for benchers looking to edge out each other with that last fraction of a % on tests that specifically target memory speed and thus show a few more % gains with performance RAM.

Lismail0
01-02-2012, 10:13 PM
The only reason that I think it is running in single channel is because memtest claims that it is when the ram is installed into slots 1 and 3. If it were in fact running in single channel mode that would greatly affect the performance, correct?

fostert
01-03-2012, 12:39 AM
Yes it would be a performance hit. What is your memory throughput (bandwidth) in MB/s as reported by memtest86+? I'm getting near 14,000 MB/s and I am fairly sure that is dual channel mode, since it is the same with either 2x4GB sticks in channels 1 and 3, or with all four slots filled with 8GB sticks for a total of 32 GB RAM.

BTW, the new corsair vengeance notebook memory is relatively untested on the G74 by users, whereas most people who have bought the Kingston HyperX's have gotten two of them to run at their rated speeds (1600 or 1866 MHz) in the G74. If you can live with 8GB RAM then the Kingstons are likely to work.

Lismail0
01-03-2012, 02:00 AM
I already took out the corsair ram and i am out of town but i will test it out just to see when i get back home just for the hell of it. Even though i am pretty sure its in single channel because when both sticks were in slots one and two memtest said it was in dual channel.

i'm going to return the Corsair ram to new egg and the Kingston 1866 8 gig kit should be here in two days. I should be more than fine with 8 gigs of ram. I'm still kinda bummed about the corsair ram because i have always been a big fan of their products but Kingston is a good company as well.

Hopefully Asus will release a better bios that eliminates issues like this.

But thank you anyways for all of your help. This has been a great learning experience and i feel a lot more knowledgeable about ram.

fostert
01-03-2012, 02:05 AM
No worries; tried my best. Kingston is top-shelf, yes: you should be very happy with a pair of those in there! I'd love to know what your memory bandwidth (reported in memtest86+) is once you get them installed!!

Lismail0
01-03-2012, 07:37 PM
You tried more than your best!

I will update the post when i get some results out of the Kingston ram. I going to try arranging the ram in different was as i did the Corsair ram and see what happens.

Thank you again for all of your help fostert!

CHEMMINS
01-05-2012, 03:20 AM
Hey, just ran across this.

I received a pair of Kingston 1866 ram for x-mas, and when installed into 1 & 2, I get:

931.5 dram
1:7 FSB
11-11-11-32
and registers as 8192.

Index scores went from:

7.4 to 7.4
7.6 to 7.9
7.1 to 7.3
7.1 to 7.3
5.9 to 5.9

Hopefully this helps. I thought about a second set, but until a way is figured to get all 16 gig to run proper, I'll wait.

Lismail0
01-06-2012, 03:30 AM
OK so the Kingston 1866 8GB kit came today and here are the results!

<-Slots 1 and 2->

dram freq->931.3-931.5
Fsb : Dram->1:7
Timings->11-11-11-31 (Dual Channel)
Command Rate->1T
Memory bandwidth->16745 MB/s

<-Slots 1 and 3->

dram freq->665
Timings->6-6-6-20 (Single channel)
Command Rate->2T
Memory bandwidth->9002 MB/s

<-Slot 1 only->

dram freq->665
Timings->6-6-6-20 (Single channel)
Command Rate->2T
Memory bandwidth->13014 MB/s

Everything is running great no blue screens and my windows index ram value went from 7.6->7.9 (Yeah!!! Bragging rights. lol)
Thanks again for all of your help fostert.

I'm jealous CHEMMINS your Graphics card rating went up to 7.3! I wonder why mine didn't increase?

fostert
01-06-2012, 03:52 AM
Index scores went from:

7.4 to 7.4
7.6 to 7.9
7.1 to 7.3
7.1 to 7.3
5.9 to 5.9


Thats a crazy increase in WEI scores, especially the graphics scores going ^ 0.2 points! I thought that would happen only if you were running graphics through the integrated GPU on the CPU, but you've got an external card! Strange...
When I went up to 32GB RAM on my G74, my WEI graphics scores went up 0.1 (7.3->7.4) but I have no explanation why...the memory is the same speed (1333MHz) as the old 16Gb stuff in there was, theres just twice as much! Odd.

Lismail0
01-06-2012, 04:02 AM
I just re-ran the WEI with a overclock and got 7.3. Are you guys running a GPU overclock and what drivers do you have?

fostert
01-06-2012, 04:23 AM
I just re-ran the WEI with a overclock and got 7.3. Are you guys running a GPU overclock and what drivers do you have?
Yeah, I have an OC on my 560M using MSI afterburner. I think I am running it 24/7 at 1700, 850 and 1400 but I can't remember precisely. Anyhow that initially bumped my WEI from 7.2 (stock 560M speeds) to 7.3, and I could never get it past 7.3 even with a more insane overclock to the maxes allowed by MSI (2000, 1000, 1900). As I mentioned though when I put in the new 32GB RAM I was able to achieve 7.4 with that same overclock...dunno why. Have to keep the window open for this speed mind you (its usually -10 to -15C here in winter!)
Drivers are older (October) NVIDIA, I think 285 something something...

BTW, I am jealous of your WEI memory score of 7.9! Mines stuck @ 7.6, no surprise I guess since I'm running standard 1333MHz speed sticks.

Lismail0
01-06-2012, 04:42 AM
Yeah I'm running stable now with 880-1760-1600 using msi Afterbuner as well. My driver is the latest beta driver though (290.53). But my WEI index maxes at 7.3 as well. I guess that's better than nothing. It should give me a slight boost in FPS while playing Skyrim and that's good enough for me.

CHEMMINS
01-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Yup, I am running afterburner as well.

fostert
01-07-2012, 02:36 PM
I haven't tested any of my GPU overclocks for stability yet, just toying really and since I don't game it isn't important. To me the OC just tells me the quality of the hardware, in this case the NVIDIA card...It OCs further than ATI cards do in my experience.
Plus of course an OC gives me a bit of a kick that my notebook is just that little bit more future proof!

Lismail0
01-08-2012, 12:21 AM
The slight OC gives that little boost that i need while playing skyrim on ultra high settings. I also have seen a slight improvement in smoothness with my new ram!

Xxosloxx
01-20-2012, 08:30 AM
Just to inform all I have bought the corsair vengeance 1866 2X4 GB if you are Good with '8gb' they are Working as intended ai a freq OF 980 hz in dual cannella with timing of 10 10 10 27 no problem detected for now

fostert
01-21-2012, 03:14 AM
Just to inform all I have bought the corsair vengeance 1866 2X4 GB if you are Good with '8gb' they are Working as intended ai a freq OF 980 hz in dual cannella with timing of 10 10 10 27 no problem detected for now

Is this on a G74? Looks like a good frequency and relatively tight timings; should make a diff. in your benchmark scores, but not likely noticeable in day-2day ops or gaming (some people report slightly smoother gameplay with the performance RAM, but I've never seen that tested). Hopefully if/when a new BIOS arrives for the G74 it'll allow all four slots to be recognized with performance RAM, and we can get 16GB working at 1866 MHz.

Lismail0
01-24-2012, 07:57 PM
I would do a memstest with both of them installed Xxosloxx. Mine worked awesome for a while then started to cause a lot of blue screens until the point I couldn't boot into windows.

fostert
01-25-2012, 03:48 AM
Running memtest on any new set of sticks should be automatic, especially performance RAM which is hand picked from batches of ICs because of a certain set of characteristics (stability is not the most important of them!).

Lismail0
01-25-2012, 03:46 PM
Well fostert, I'm now having trouble with the Kingston hyper x 1866 8GB kit. About a week ago my computer started to blue screen. It will blue screen about once every time I turn it on. So I decided to do a memtest on the new Kingston ram and about 5 minutes in errors started flying. So i continued doing tests with memtest and the new Kingston ram is starting to do the same thing as the corsair ram did. Working one module at a time or only in single channel mode.

Boosted_R
02-21-2012, 12:41 AM
what bios you running ? also could it be the SSD causing the BSOD?..... thinking about the corsair 1866 instead of the hyper x since it about $30-$40 cheaper ...... Corsair1866 runs fine on the G73 and G53 :|

mbart79
02-21-2012, 04:02 AM
Really interested in this topic. I was looking at the Kingston 1600mhz ram sticks but trying to be sure that 4 x 4gigs of them will work.

fostert
02-21-2012, 04:26 AM
As you know @JaniOnROG got 4 of those Kingston HyperX 1600's working in his G74. I would really like to see what the CL timings are being read as from his/her sticks' SPD settings by the BIOS...as I wrote to @LisMail0 at the beginning of this thread I am beginning to suspect that the G74 BIOS reads the XMP incorrectly as something like 6-6-6-20, then realizes it can't ask the on-die memory controller to run these ultra-tight timings at the overclocked speed (or if it does the memory controller laughs and spits up), so it looks for another SPD setting it can run at: the default JEDEC settings of 1333MHz at cl9-9-9-24, or some such thing.
Just guessing. But we've seen that 4 1600's can work on a G74, so might be worth the slight risk ... most good etailers will let you return the sticks if they don't work as advertised...best to check with them so they don't charge you a restock fee for opened merchandise.

mbart79
02-21-2012, 04:40 AM
Yeah I pm'ed jani about how they were working out but haven't heard back yet.

Think I will take the gamble and see how they work out.

fostert
02-21-2012, 04:41 AM
Fab...good luck sir! Key us "posted"!

Boosted_R
02-21-2012, 04:42 AM
yup....... 1600Mhz will work fine up to 16GB has been proven, and 32GB of 1333Mhz..... G74 issue is more with the 1866Mhz 16GB wont run, even with Chasity saying she got it to run, that's a one off thing it seems lol. Anyone know if there is a different between the Kingston Hyper X 1866 and the Corsair Vengeance 1866..... don't know too much, especially when it comes to ram......Its crazy how the old G series runs 1866 no problem.... wouldn't touch the G75 as ASUS seem to be going backwards lol ( poke poke, get cracking on a new BIOS ASUS). Would be nice to save $40 with the Corsair, if your in Canada... not a big difference in the USA

fostert
02-21-2012, 04:46 AM
I always go with the corsair myself, as their customer care is simply legend and my one RMA experience with them was completely painless and fast. And they got a bunch of great guys helping on their memory forums, including yellowbeard himself!

Boosted_R
02-21-2012, 07:30 AM
probably post there and see what they are saying about the G74 and compatibility, thanks

JRd1st
02-21-2012, 03:12 PM
... poke poke, get cracking on a new BIOS ASUS

I second that poke!

I wonder what the chances are that we, who have already made our purchase, will ever see another update, BIOS or otherwise, on the support page. What do you think?

BrodyBoy
02-21-2012, 08:07 PM
I second that poke!

I wonder what the chances are that we, who have already made our purchase, will ever see another update, BIOS or otherwise, on the support page. What do you think?
I seriously doubt it. It seems to me that Asus puts out most BIOS updates in the early months after a model is released. Once they have fixed the obvious bugs and the system seems stable, they're pretty much done with it.

I'm not trying to be negative. I just really think their business model focuses on churning out new models and attracting new buyers, rather than supporting existing models in a way that keeps them current and extends their longevity. IN all fairness, this is a very common approach with all kinds of electronics manufacturers.

Boosted_R
02-21-2012, 10:00 PM
with the G75 announced, that sealed the faith of the G74 BIOS.... its not hard for them to unlock a BIOS, if they were gonna do it, they would have so by now......ultrabooks are taking 1866 easily, while the G74 struggles, WOW......with this being my first ASUS laptop its clear they are a desktop oriented organization....they just released the fan control software for there high end motherboards.... wouldn't have taken much to make it compatible with their flagship laptop, G74..... disappointing but I learned my lesson........... if that's there business focus, they wont last in the high performance laptop market much longer

fostert
02-22-2012, 04:37 AM
I seem to remember reading here and there in posts on this forum about "rumours" around here that ASUS is working on a beta BIOS for the G74? I could be wrong, and I didn't bookmark these posts but I think I recall one of those posts was by @Colonel_S? Sorry to put you on the spot, and my apologies if it wasn't you!

JRd1st
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
I seem to remember reading here and there in posts on this forum about "rumours" around here that ASUS is working on a beta BIOS for the G74? I could be wrong, and I didn't bookmark these posts but I think I recall one of those posts was by @Colonel_S? Sorry to put you on the spot, and my apologies if it wasn't you!

Yeah, I don't remember who posted it but the post mentioned "rumors of a beta BIOS with tighter timings"

I wonder who beta tests these things. Too bad they don't let us do some of that. ... I guess they had so many returns for bad BIOS flashes that they are afraid to release anything to us regular users. lol

gilbert
02-22-2012, 04:24 PM
hey guys what would b the benefits of upgrading Ram ? i read on other places that upgrading is not worth it..

fostert
02-23-2012, 02:05 AM
hey guys what would b the benefits of upgrading Ram ? i read on other places that upgrading is not worth it..

Upgrading as in more RAM, or faster "performance" RAM?

Unless all you do with your system is run benchmarks, there are minor and nearly imperceptible performance benefits to upgrading the RAM from say 1333MHz to the "performance" variety at 1600 or 1866MHz. RAM with faster speeds and tighter timings is simply "boutique" RAM with higher price, but will do very little for real-world day-2-day programs or even games. The performance increase you get by installing performance RAM will be below the variation in a round of the same tests run over and over, except, again, if you are running benchmarks (in this case the faster RAM will substantially increase your scores, but those are artificial tests that are designed to benefit from faster clocked RAM).

Save your $$ and get an SSD which will give you a noticeable and breathtaking boost.

fostert
02-23-2012, 02:08 AM
Yeah, I don't remember who posted it but the post mentioned "rumors of a beta BIOS with tighter timings"

I wonder who beta tests these things. Too bad they don't let us do some of that. ... I guess they had so many returns for bad BIOS flashes that they are afraid to release anything to us regular users. lol

They could solve that problem by doing what every desktop motherboard manufacturer (including ASUS themselves) these days offers: a second (backup) BIOS chip. All my Gigabyte boards have them (they call it "Dual BIOS") and its saved me from bad flashes and overly aggressive overclocks in the past.