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FDSage
01-13-2017, 08:48 PM
So I've been using my PC for over a day now. Decided to turn the XMP profile for the RAM. Windows started up fine after that. Later, after restarting Windows, the signal did not come back on. I'm not sure Windows even booted up in the background. I'm starting to think I won't be able to use XMP on this motherboard. Is there any solution for this?

FDSage
01-13-2017, 09:01 PM
The setup screen at least appeared after a hard shut down this time. I set it back to auto for now. I noticed the profile changes a CPU setting from auto to sync all cores. I don't know if that matters or not. I just want my RAM to run at 3200 like it's supposed to.

Chino
01-13-2017, 11:42 PM
Unfortunately, DDR4 3200 isn't plug-n-play for all processors. Some will require manual tweaking.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the response. I was thinking of doing it manually. I'll try inputting the RAM's specifications and see how that goes.

Raja@ASUS
01-14-2017, 09:30 AM
Thanks for the response. I was thinking of doing it manually. I'll try inputting the RAM's specifications and see how that goes.


Its the secondary timings of the modules that can be different to what is applied on Auto. Setting Auto or manual for the primaries yields no difference. You can check the XMP profile and apply the full gamut of timings manually. Before you try that, try setting Maximus Tweak mode 1.

-Raja

FDSage
01-14-2017, 12:00 PM
Its the secondary timings of the modules that can be different to what is applied on Auto. Setting Auto or manual for the primaries yields no difference. You can check the XMP profile and apply the full gamut of timings manually. Before you try that, try setting Maximus Tweak mode 1.

-Raja

It was set to Maximus Tweak Mode 1 on its own. Before I try anything, do you mean I should leave it on Mode 1, and leave everything on auto, and simply change the DRAM Frequency from Auto to 3200? What of the voltage?

Nate152
01-14-2017, 02:09 PM
Hi FDSage

I'll help you get your ram at its rated specs and we'll set it manually instead of using XMP profile.

1) Set the AI Overclock tuner to manual.
2) Scroll down and set the Dram frequency to 3200MHz
3) Scroll further down and set the Dram voltage to 1.35v.
4) Scroll down to cpu system agent voltage and set to 1.15v.
5) Scroll down to cpu vccio voltage and set to 1.15v
6) I'm not sure of the timings of your kit but they're listed on the box they came in and on each stick. Go to Dram timing control and at the very top enter in the first 4 timings and set command rate to 2.
7) F10 and Enter to save and exit.

How does she go ?

If it doesn't want to go then we'll have to increase the cpu system agent and cpu vccio voltages.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 03:07 PM
So I've done steps 1-5 that you showed and set the command rate to 2N. I'm new to setting these manually so I'm not entirely sure which boxes to enter the timings. They're specced for 14-14-14-34.

The model is F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW if that helps.

Nate152
01-14-2017, 03:19 PM
Oh nice, that is one of the fastest kits with CL14. :)

Dram Timing Control brings up the timings page, at the very top enter in the frist 4 timings.

All right, hit F10 and Enter and see if she boots. If it doesn't boot, upon reboot it should give you an overclocking failed message which is normal, it's just telling us it's not stable.

Let's cross our fingers and hope she goes.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 03:32 PM
Yes I was quite happy to get a hold of it. :)

Sorry for stalling, but I'm just a little confused. At the very top is Primary Timings and there are only three boxes and then command rate.

Should I set it like this?

DRAM CAS# Latency: 14
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay: 14
DRAM RAS# ACT Time: 34
DRAM Command Rate: 2N

Nate152
01-14-2017, 03:45 PM
You got it, in fact mine is like that too, the two middle timings are tied together.

Sorry my mistake I don't know why I said 4 timings. :rolleyes:

FDSage
01-14-2017, 04:18 PM
No go =/

I set it up exactly, after saving and quitting it went to windows. Then I did a full shut down and after starting up again, only the fans come on. No signal.

Nate152
01-14-2017, 04:33 PM
All right

It seems we need to add a little more voltage which we can expect when running a ram kit such as yours. Raise both the cpu system agent voltage and the cpu vccio voltage to 1.20v.

We'll try them both up to 1.25v and see if she will stabilize.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 05:13 PM
Okay! I think 1.25v in cpu system agent and cpu vccio did the trick.
1.2v gave the same failing result of going to windows the first time, but not after a full shut down.
1.25v successfully booted after a full shut down.

Thank you very much for walking me through again, Nate152. Great support on these forums!
Is there anything else I should look out for in the future? I'm probably going to stay out of bios now assuming there's no more issues.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, why does this kit require more voltage? I'm wondering why the XMP profile didn't set it at a stable level.

Nate152
01-14-2017, 05:28 PM
you're welcome !

Well XMP isn't always fail safe as we found out. The more capacity, higher speed and tighter timings the more voltage is needed.

It depends on the cpu's integrated memory controller which the cpu system agent and cpu vccio voltages feed as to how much voltage you need, they're not all created equal some will need more voltage some will need less and some may not be able to do it at all. That looks pretty good in my book what you got there voltage wise.

XMP will likely work with the cpu system agent voltage and the cpu vccio voltages set to 1.25v.

You have a very nice gaming pc , here's a picture of mine. :)

61845

FDSage
01-14-2017, 06:23 PM
Nice! Is that a custom cooling rig? Looks pretty sweet.

Here's the one that's been getting setup:

61846

Overall, I'm very happy with the ASUS hardware. :cool:

Nate152
01-14-2017, 07:11 PM
Awesome, thanks for showing us.

Yeah I love my ROG Maximus viii Formula and Strix 1070 too. :)

You should be able to get your 7700k to 5.0GHz or maybe a little more with your h100i cooler. As I was saying earlier all cpu's aren't created equal and that applies to overclocking it too, the less voltage you need the better the cpu you have and you won't know how good it is until you overclock it.

The h100i can handle 1.30v - 1.40v depending on temps and temperature controls how far you can overclock your cpu.

I use HwInfo to show temps and voltages and shows pretty much everything else too.

One thing I'm curious about is how well the BCLK overclocks with kabylake, I was able to get the BCLK to 300 with the 6700k, the Bus Clock in HWInfo is the BCLK on the upper left hand side.

Click the pic to make it bigger
61847

FDSage
01-14-2017, 07:46 PM
Yes! I'd love to try getting it to 5.0GHz. I was hoping to be able to, but I've never done any real manual overclocking. Should I start by taking a look at HwInfo?

Nate152
01-14-2017, 07:56 PM
I can help you manually get it to 5.0GHz if you like.

What do you say ya wanna play? ;)

If yes install the native 64 bit version of HWIfo.

https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php

You'll also need a stability test and we'll use ROG Realbench, click download realbench.

http://rog.asus.com/rog-pro/realbench-v2-leaderboard/

Before we start I wanna say this can take a little bit of time as in a couple hours, so if you have the time we can do it.

Give me 10 minutes while you install those.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 08:14 PM
Yes, I am ready. I have both of those downloaded now.

Nate152
01-14-2017, 08:43 PM
OK great !

Before we overclock your cpu let's do a run at default settings and see where temps are.

Open HWInfo and click sensors, the cpu temps are shown as core 0,1.2.3 on the left.

61849


Open ROG Realbench and click stress test beside benchmark, select 32GB of ram and duration 15 minutes.

Click start and monitor the core temps and tell us where they're hovering and what the Vcore is reading from the current column while the test is running.

This will also tell us if your ram is stable and how well you applied the thermal compound and mounted your cooler. You don't have to let it run the full 15 minutes this first time, we're mainly checking temps so we know what we're starting with.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 09:03 PM
Do I run HwInfo and RealBench at the same time?

Here's hwinfo on default settings:

61850

Nate152
01-14-2017, 09:10 PM
Yes you need to run HWinfo to monitor the cpu core temps and voltage, we can take tamps up to 90c when stress testing but for every day use and playing games max temp is 64c but I don't feel uncomfortable running mine at 70c. Since kabylake is a skylake refresh I assume it's the same.

When we hit 90c stress testing temps, temps should be somewhere in the high 60's when playing games and we'll test that too if you have any installed once we find your maximum overclock.

Click start and tell me what the temps are hovering at under the current column.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 09:18 PM
3 minutes into the stress test. Core temps are hovering around 50-60.
GeForce GTX and Intel HD Graphics are the only things checked off in "Hardware devices", should I check Intel Core i7 too?

Nate152
01-14-2017, 09:24 PM
Sure you can monitor those too.

Temps look great and say you have a good bit of room for overclocking.

What is the Vcore reading ? It's shown by one of the yellow marks.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 09:27 PM
VCore: 1.232 | 1.232 | 1.312 | 1.265

The numbers are barely moving from that. I hope that's what you were looking for.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 09:31 PM
15 minutes are up. Here's what it's at right after ending

61851

Nate152
01-14-2017, 09:42 PM
Yes thank you.

These are the two we want to pay attention to when overclocking, the core temps and the Vcore and it seems you did a great job installing your h100i cooler.

OK

Let's skip 4.6GHz and try for 4.7GHz.

It's the same as your ram, we'll have to keep increasing voltage until it becomes stable and the temps will tell us how far you can go.

OK let's go:

On the Extreme Tweaker Tab let the AI Overclock tuner set to Manual, sync all cores and set the cpu core ratio to 47, all cores will show 47 when synced.

Scroll down to CPU Core/Cache voltage and set to Manual, then enter in 1.35v in the "CPU Core Voltage Override"

F10 and Enter to save and exit, cross our fingers and hope she boots. :)

FDSage
01-14-2017, 09:50 PM
:D

Just so I'm clear, the Core Ratio Limit gets set to 47, not 4.7, right?

Raja@ASUS
01-14-2017, 09:51 PM
It was set to Maximus Tweak Mode 1 on its own. Before I try anything, do you mean I should leave it on Mode 1, and leave everything on auto, and simply change the DRAM Frequency from Auto to 3200? What of the voltage?

It's the secondary timings you may need to adjust. To find out what the XMP secondary timings are, you'll need to view the profile. You can do that in UEFI or you can use AIDA 64. Copy the timings in the profile to the DRAM timings page. That usually helps and should be tried before increasing voltages.

Setting the primary timings manually to the same as they would be on Auto (XMP) doesn't change a thing. You need to identify which of the secondary timings are set differently to the XMP timings programmed on the kit, then adjust accordingly. If that does not help, then resort to voltage adjustments.

Nate152
01-14-2017, 10:00 PM
Ok let's hold up here and take a look at what Raja is saying about your ram.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 10:08 PM
Alright. I did make a copy of all the changes made when selecting only XMP.

It made these changes:

Ai Overclock Tuner: Auto>XMP
BCLK: Auto>100
CPU Core Ratio: Sync All Cores>Auto
DRAM Frequency: Auto>DDR4-3200
DRAM Voltage: Auto>1.35
DRAM CAS# Latency: Auto>14
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay: Auto>14
DRAM RAS# ACT Time: Auto>34

I don't think it made changes to the secondary timings. Are the settings okay?

Nate152
01-14-2017, 10:32 PM
Yeah that all looks good, I never had to fool with the secondary timings, Raja knows his stuff so try what he suggested.

It would be nice to get the voltages lower if we can.

FDSage
01-14-2017, 10:43 PM
I don't really have any time to look at it any more today. I'm hoping we can continue the overclocking process tomorrow!

Nate152
01-14-2017, 10:53 PM
Ok yep that sounds great, we'll see how good of a cpu you have and check the secondary timings of your ram.

I'm excited as you are I want to see you hit 5.0GHz !

I'll look for you tomorrow just come and reply.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 03:22 PM
Hey FDSage

Just wondering if you had a chance to check the secondary timings, it would be nice if we can get the cpu system agent voltage and cpu vccio voltage lower, that would take a few degrees off the cpu core temps too.

If the secondary timings all look good another way of setting the ram would be raising the Dram voltage up to 1.40v, this may take a little load off the cpu's integrated memory controller and in turn should need less System Agent and VCCIO voltages.

But first let us know how the secondary timings look.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 03:41 PM
The timings look good. It's been running smoothly at 1.25v. The temps have been pretty good, so if you think that's good, I'm ready to work on the CPU.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 03:43 PM
Look good? What does that mean?

FDSage
01-15-2017, 03:45 PM
When the XMP is set, it keeps them auto. They're set to auto right now, so I wouldn't know what else to set them to. Is there another way to look at it?

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 03:48 PM
When the XMP is set, it keeps them auto. They're set to auto right now, so I wouldn't know what else to set them to. Is there another way to look at it?


Thats why I suggested you take a look at the profile via UEFI (GPU DIMM post) or by using AIDA so you can compare the profile's timings to what the board applies with Auto. There is usually a disparity - with the board applying tighter timings than the module profile.

Always check that before you increase voltages.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 03:49 PM
All right,

Raja was saying to input the secondary timings manually, would you want to give that a try before we overclock your cpu ?

You might as well right, you did the primary timings manually and it should only take a minute or two.

Let's try this before overclocking your cpu, I'm sure you found the secondary timings below the primary timings.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 03:53 PM
Alright, makes sense. Am I able to view it directly in the bios or do I need to install something?

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 03:55 PM
All right,

Raja was saying to input the secondary timings manually, would you want to give that a try before we overclock your cpu ?

You might as well right, you did the primary timings manually and it should only take a minute or two.

Let's try this before overclocking your cpu, I'm sure you found the secondary timings below the primary timings.


Let's clarify this before more confusion ensues.


I'm suggesting he parses the Auto timings against the module XMP timings and then changes them to match. We are not advising that he simply sets things manually for the sake of it, capeesh? The latter is an exercise in futility.


Get the timings straightened out, and then apply voltage changes if you need to. Don't just go for voltage before matching up the timings.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 03:59 PM
Alright, makes sense. Am I able to view it directly in the bios or do I need to install something?


See what you can find with GPU DIMM post. Failing that, AIDA 64's memory SPD tab will list the timings. Note them down, then compare to auto. Make adjustments accordingly. If still not stable, then apply voltage adjustments.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 04:10 PM
Okay, thanks Raja. I'm guessing GPU DIMM post and AIDA 64 are in BIOS? I'm looking for them, but I don't see them. If it's in Windows, I can't look there since I can't boot with the XMP. Or am I misunderstanding?

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 04:14 PM
1) AIDA 64 is a third party tool for the OS.
2) For checking the profile in UEFI, go to TOOL>ASUS SPD information. Note the XMP timings.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 04:29 PM
Cool, thank you. I see it now.

I don't know if this is useful info to post, but this is the JEDEC ID and XMP #1 listings

Frequency(MHz): 3200
Voltage: 1.350
tCL: 14
tRCD: 14
tRP: 14
tRAS: 34
tRC: 48
tRRD_S: 6
tRRD_L: 8
tRFC1: 48
tRFC2: 160
tRFC4: (blank)
tCCD_L: (blank)
tFAW: 39

If I understand correctly, you wanted me to compare these to the auto. Looking at the DRAM Timing Control, I don't see the same terms there. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 04:49 PM
Is there an XMP #1 and #2 profile? I know my Ttrident X kit had two XMP profiles.

Raja - Ram is not my stronger suit, your help is greatly appreciated here. :)

FDSage
01-15-2017, 04:52 PM
There's only an XMP #1.
XMP #2 is all blank.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 04:55 PM
OK, Let's ask Raja if you should change those timings that are off to the XMP profile #1 timings.

Is that would he should do ? I'm thinking yes. :)

FDSage
01-15-2017, 05:02 PM
Alright. I'm guessing those letters are abbreviations. Looking at the secondary timings on Auto under CHA and CHB, I see numbers that are close to the XMP #1 numbers, but I'm not sure what relates to what.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 05:13 PM
I guess the best way to go about this would be to reset the bios to defaults (F5) then set the ram manually with the primary and secondary timings and see how it goes from there.

After resetting to defaults do the steps again, set the ai overclock tuner to manual, Dram frequency to 3200MHz , Dram voltage 1.35v , then set the primary timings and the secondary timings and change those accordingly, just make sure they're set to what you listed.

F10 and Enter and see how she goes. :)

FDSage
01-15-2017, 05:23 PM
I'll give it a shot, but I don't know where to enter those numbers from 48 and on. There first four I'm sure are the primary timings, but the letters like "tRC", "tRRD_S", and on don't show up like that under the secondary timings in the Extreme Tweaker. Is there somewhere to see what those translate to?

Nate152
01-15-2017, 05:38 PM
How are the secondary timings listed in the bios ?

Secondary timings should be below the primary timings in Dram Timing Control.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 05:48 PM
From the top and downwards, with the timings it says now

DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L: 7
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S: 6
DRAM REF Cycle Time: 560
DRAM Refresh Interval: 12480
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time: (blank)
DRAM to PRE Time: 12
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time: 34
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay: (blank)
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L: (blank)
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S: (blank)
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width: 8
DRAM Write Latency: 13

Nate152
01-15-2017, 06:10 PM
Thank you,

yeah you're right they're different from the XMP profile settings.

The top two look to be the tRRD L and tRRD S settings and they're very close with one being off by one number.

Set:

DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L: 8
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S: 6
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time: 39

I guess we can leave the blank ones so that let's

DRAM REF Cycle Time
DRAM to PRE Time
DRAM Minimum Pulse Width
DRAM Write Latency

Shouldn't need to fool with the refresh Interval or Pulse Width.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 06:11 PM
Is there an XMP #1 and #2 profile? I know my Ttrident X kit had two XMP profiles.

Raja - Ram is not my stronger suit, your help is greatly appreciated here. :)


Yep, copy the settings that are available over - assuming the auto values are different from those of the profile.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 06:19 PM
Okay, I'll set it up the same way as before but will leave cpu voltages on default and add those three settings to the secondary timings.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 06:22 PM
Ok just a sec,

Raja - which of these XMP profile timings:

61872
would be these:

DRAM REF Cycle Time: 560
DRAM to PRE Time: 12
DRAM Minimum Pulse Width: 8
DRAM Write Latency: 13

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 07:02 PM
None of those.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 07:09 PM
So is he ready to try it? We changed three settings, I don't see anything left other than those four and the blank ones.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 07:14 PM
Sure.

See how it reacts, and then make voltage changes.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 07:18 PM
Thank you,

If it needs voltage, what do you think about raising the Dram voltage vs. raising SA and IO voltages ?

FDSage
01-15-2017, 07:23 PM
Wow. Successful from cold boot at 3200 CL14 and default/auto cpu voltages.
It looks like the secondary timings did the trick. Good call.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 07:36 PM
That's awesome, Rep points awarded to Raja and FDSage !

It says I need to spread more reuptation before i can give Raja some but you have some coming Raja. :)

It should jump you up to 25 reputation points FDSage since I have somewhat high reputation.

ok it gave you 18 points. :)

FDSage
01-15-2017, 07:40 PM
:D

Thanks to the both of you!

So, you still want to get this thing up to 5.0GHz? If so, I just need about 15 minutes.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 07:45 PM
Wow. Successful from cold boot at 3200 CL14 and default/auto cpu voltages.
It looks like the secondary timings did the trick. Good call.

Probably an idea to run a memory stress test at this point (HCI memtest for the OS).

Nate152
01-15-2017, 07:52 PM
Sure, if you have the time I'll gladly help you and you'll see how easy it is.

Salute to Raja again on the secondary timings, like I said he knows his stuff, when he talks everyone should listen. :)

OK

There are some things you can change in DiGi+, Load line Calibration, CPU Power Phase Control, CPU Current capability.

Go into Digi+ and set these:

LLC - Level 4
CPU Current Capability - 130%
CPU Power Phase Control - Extreme

Then

Sync all cores and set the cpu core ratio to 47, scroll down to cpu core/cache voltage, set it to manual and enter in 1.35v in the "cpu core voltage override".

F10 and Enter and it should boot right to windows.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 07:54 PM
i would leave CPU Current capability and CPU power phase control on Auto. No need to change those from Auto for this type of overclocking.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 07:59 PM
All right LLC to level 4 to start, we'll see where the voltage is while the test is running.

We want to see 1.35v in the current column or very close to it.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:01 PM
Id have him run a memory stress test first. You want to make sure the memory is stable before you start hitting the CPU, otherwise you'll have more debugging to do.

Nate152
01-15-2017, 08:03 PM
Doesn't Realbench test the memory during the stress test ?

Yes it does, run the 15 minute test with the cpu at default settings, let's take note of the temps too and see how much lower they are, I will expect a few degrees.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:05 PM
Not by enough. And given you're asking the user to overclock the CPU and memory at the same time, you'll have less idea regarding the origin of instability.

Silent Scone@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:08 PM
Doesn't Realbench test the memory during the stress test ?

If it does you can run the test before we overclock your cpu.

Think it's best to leave the OP to Raja's recommendations here. Realbench isn't a memory stress test. As Raja says, it's best to test the memory is in fact now stable with something like HCI Memtest Pro before overclocking other aspects of the system.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 08:20 PM
I do have memtest on a disc. I recall it taking a very long time, especially for 32GB. I'll run it tonight before I go to bed. If you guys think it's good to go after that, I'm up for it tomorrow or another afternoon.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:21 PM
Think it's best to leave the OP to Raja's recommendations here. Realbench isn't a memory stress test. As Raja says, it's best to test the memory is in fact now stable with something like HCI Memtest Pro before overclocking other aspects of the system.


RB grabs and releases memory by using WinRAR, but it's not a good isolator for the issues "displayed" by this user's system. In cases like these, isolating the memory with a dedicated stress test is advised. Especially so when the instability isn't far away from the applied adjustments.

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:24 PM
I do have memtest on a disc. I recall it taking a very long time, especially for 32GB. I'll run it tonight before I go to bed. If you guys think it's good to go after that, I'm up for it tomorrow or another afternoon.




HCI Memtest for the OS is advised. Use as many instances as you have cores, and assign all but 1.5GB of memory to avoid using the pagefile. Being thorough and deliberate is a good thing.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 08:35 PM
HCI Memtest for the OS is advised. Use as many instances as you have cores, and assign all but 1.5GB of memory to avoid using the pagefile. Being thorough and deliberate is a good thing.

Cool. Just downloaded HCI MemTest now. Is the free version sufficient or is the Pro version recommended?

Raja@ASUS
01-15-2017, 08:36 PM
You may need the pro version, but it's only $5. I use it myself. Handy tool for any overclocker to own. Leave it running overnight, you want 500% coverage.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 08:48 PM
Hmm okay. I suppose $5 is a worthy investment for protecting expensive equipment. Thanks for the tips.
I'll run it under the settings you posted and report back when it's done.

FDSage
01-15-2017, 11:34 PM
Well, the PC did not post after restarting.
I raised the system agent and vccio voltage to 1.15v and would not post on cold boot.
Would not post at 1.2v either.

I could try raising the DRAM voltage to 1.4v, but I'd like to hear what would make the most sense to do from here.

Menthol
01-16-2017, 03:12 AM
Yes that is correct, those 2 timings cannot be set separately on Skylake/KabyLake

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 09:18 AM
Well, the PC did not post after restarting.
I raised the system agent and vccio voltage to 1.15v and would not post on cold boot.
Would not post at 1.2v either.

I could try raising the DRAM voltage to 1.4v, but I'd like to hear what would make the most sense to do from here.

What POST code did it halt on?

FDSage
01-16-2017, 02:01 PM
Q Code = 55
It didn't even boot to Windows the first time like it normally does this time.
This is with the dram frequency, dram voltage, and primary and secondary timings entered.

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 02:18 PM
Yeah, entering the primary timings and DRAM freq manually is no different to leaving them on Auto at the same value. It's another of those forum myths.

I suspect the memory kit wasn't binned on Z270, so is likely going to need more adjustments.

If you can get it to POST at the XMP settings again, take screen captures of the DRAM timing page. I'd like to see the secondary and third (tertiary) timings. You can save screenshots to a USB drive by pressing F12. Convert them to JPEG and then upload. Alternatively, you can type them out here, which is more laborious.

If you cannot get the kit to post, add +1 to the primary timings for now. That should encourage POST without needing to overvolt the memory past what it is rated for. Then make a note of the secondary and third timings, or take screen captures as advised above.

-Raja

FDSage
01-16-2017, 02:32 PM
Is this helpful?

61896

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 02:34 PM
I need the DRAM timing pages, please - with the memory at the XMP frequency.

FDSage
01-16-2017, 02:39 PM
It won't boot with XMP set. Will it work if I just select XMP and then capture the timings page?

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 02:52 PM
No, it needs to POST at XMP.

I did give some advice here to make it POST: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?90227-No-signal-problem-again&p=627423&viewfull=1#post627423

FDSage
01-16-2017, 03:16 PM
Okay. I tried that and it posted with XMP and primary timings manually set to 15-15-36-2N.
The rest is as the XMP has set it.

61897
61898
61899
61900
61901

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 03:29 PM
Set the following:

DRAM RAS to RAS L = 8
Write Recovery Time = 14
Four ACT Win Time = 39
DRAM Write to Read Delay = 8
DRAM Write to Read Delay L = 8
DRAM Write to Read Delay S = 6
DRAM Write Latency = 14


Set those then save and exit. When it POSTs, go back to the DRAM timing page and set the primary timings back -1 clocks to their original values. See if it POSTs after that. If not, I will suggest a few more changes.

FDSage
01-16-2017, 03:46 PM
Did not POST after setting the primary timings back.
Q Code = stuck on 01 but occasionally goes to 03.

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 04:21 PM
Try write latency back on 13 clocks.

If no joy:

tRDRD_sg = 8
tRDRD_dg = 6
tRDWR_sg = 18
tRDWR_dg = 18

Set SA Voltage to 1.25V and IO voltage to 1.20V

FDSage
01-16-2017, 05:00 PM
It booted successfully after changing the write latency to 13.
If I have another boot issue I'll try the additional timing and voltage settings you suggested.
Either way, I'll be back to let you know the results. If everything looks good for the day, I'll run the hci memtest.

Raja@ASUS
01-16-2017, 05:07 PM
Good. Keep the write CL there for now. Let's see if the slightly relaxed secondary timings help it pass HCI and result in consistent POST.

FDSage
01-16-2017, 10:14 PM
Would not POST after restart.
Would not POST after going through the settings again and adding the third timings and voltages.
Q Code = 01 and 03 again.

FDSage
01-16-2017, 11:18 PM
I'm going to run memtest under the manual settings with 1.25v SA and VCCIO. I know we don't want the voltages too high, but so far it's the only setting that is consistently stable at the rated speeds.
I do need a computer for work and video rendering so I can't spend much more time tweaking at this moment.
Thank you for going through the many options with me thus far.

Raja@ASUS
01-17-2017, 08:49 AM
I'm going to run memtest under the manual settings with 1.25v SA and VCCIO. I know we don't want the voltages too high, but so far it's the only setting that is consistently stable at the rated speeds.
I do need a computer for work and video rendering so I can't spend much more time tweaking at this moment.
Thank you for going through the many options with me thus far.


1.25V SA is ok for the density and rated frequency/timings. At least you're not having to juice the DIMMs.

FDSage
01-18-2017, 12:26 PM
Just popping in, in case anyone wants to know, it failed to restart under the manual settings with 1.25v cpu SA.
I've since opted to turn it down a notch and run my RAM at 3100 CL15 instead of the rated 3200 CL14. It runs at 1.35v DRAM voltage and everything else default.
Maybe the lowered (default) cpu voltages will at least leave more room for cpu overclocking.

I'm a little disappointed that I couldn't get the RAM to run at its rated speed. 3200 CL14 seems to be too much for the system to handle, at least without a lot of tweaking. Even then, it doesn't seem to want to work.

I hope there will be a BIOS update in the future that addresses this and allows the XMP to work without any additional input.
For now, I can live with the modicum of lost speed.

Nate152
01-18-2017, 09:50 PM
Hey FDSage

Thank you for the update.

Yeah it seems the cl14 is putting a strain on the cpu's IMC, since you paid for the kit I'd still try and get it at 3200MHz with cl14. Don't throw in the towel just yet. :)

Have you tried both the SA and IO at 1.25v? If you have try the SA at 1.30v and IO at 1.25v.

If still no go let the SA at 1.30v and IO at 1.25v then slowly start increasing the Dram voltage, try the Dram voltage at 1.36v, 1.37v, 1.38v, 1.39v, and finally 1.40v.

Raja may have some other tweaks for you to try but in the mean time try this and see if you can get it at its rated specs.

Raja@ASUS
01-19-2017, 10:22 AM
He can try Maximus Tweak Mode 2 if he likes. It may help.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 03:31 AM
Yep, Maximus Tweak Mode 2 would be good to try.

Maximus Tweak Mode 1 - Helps with compatibility
Maximus Tweak Mode 2 - Helps with overclocking

I asked NemesisChild to come and post his settings, he has the maximus viii hero, 6700k and the same ram kit as you.

We are anxiously waiting for an update. :)

FDSage
01-20-2017, 03:50 AM
Okay! I set it to XMP (No core enhancement), Sync all cores, and Maximus Tweak Mode 2. I set it to that in the morning and restarted several times throughout the day just to test it. It's been running at 3200 CL14 and there hasn't been any problems. I'm happy with these results. :)

Nate152
01-20-2017, 04:00 AM
That's awesome and a big high 5 !

What SA and IO voltages do you have set ?

Did it pass the HCI Memetest ?

FDSage
01-20-2017, 04:29 AM
SA and IO voltages are on Auto. IO hovers around 1.168 and SA around 1.144.
DRAM is set to 1.35.

Running HCI MemTest now. I'll let you know when it's done!

Nate152
01-20-2017, 04:46 AM
That looks great, Maximus Tweak Mode 2 seems to have did the trick. That's nice low voltages and that's what we like to see, the less voltage the less heat.

Raja gets 2 rep points and I still can't give him any, I've given maybe 10 people reputation in the last few days and it still says I need to spread more reputation, how much more do I need to spread ? :)

If you get any errors try bumping up SA and IO .01v - .02v but hopefully it will be good on auto.

Yeah I think that test can take a while, if you want to run it over night and give us an update tomorrow that's fine, Raja says to run the test at 500% coverage.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 12:57 PM
No errors in the MemTest. PC is still booting fine.

Raja@ASUS
01-20-2017, 01:23 PM
Now you can start overclocking the CPU.

NemesisChild
01-20-2017, 02:38 PM
Yep, Maximus Tweak Mode 2 would be good to try.

Maximus Tweak Mode 1 - Helps with compatibility
Maximus Tweak Mode 2 - Helps with overclocking

I asked NemesisChild to come and post his settings, he has the maximus viii hero, 6700k and the same ram kit as you.

We are anxiously waiting for an update. :)

Sorry for the late response, been very busy at work.

SA & VCCIO voltages on auto. 14-14-14-34-1T timings.

I could not get this kit to run stable on stock 1.35 DRAM voltage. Had to settle at 1.38v, runs like a charm.

Raja@ASUS
01-20-2017, 02:41 PM
Should be okay at 1.35V with Maximus Tweak Mode 2

Nate152
01-20-2017, 04:00 PM
Thank you NemesisChild and Raja !

Are you ready to overclock your cpu FDSage ?

FDSage
01-20-2017, 04:16 PM
I'm ready to overclock! Let's see what it's capable of.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 04:52 PM
All right, we'll keep it simple. :)

In DiGi+ set LLC (Load Line Calibration) to level 4, this will help reduce any vdroop.

Back on the Extreme Tweaker tab you can let it in XMP mode, sync all cores and let's try core ratio at 48, scroll down to CPU Core/Cache voltage and set it to manual, then enter in 1.35v in the "CPU Core Voltage override"

F10 and Enter to save and Exit.

Open HWInfo and run the Realbench 15 minute Stress test, monitor the temps in the current column and the Vcore which is beside one of the yellow marks. If it says Result HashMatch you passed the test.

The VCCSA in HWInfo is the CPU System Agent Voltage.

Tell us what the Vcore, temps and the SA voltage is while the test is running.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 05:06 PM
Okay, I have it set like that. Before I save and quit, I just want to make sure 48 isn't supposed to have a decimal like 4.8
Is that right?

Nate152
01-20-2017, 05:10 PM
The core ratio should show 48 with no decimal, at the top of the extreme tweaker tab in yellow it should show the cpu frequency at 4800MHz.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 05:22 PM
Okay, RealBench is running now.
Quick question - is the Turbo Frequency supposed to read 4.8GHz? I'm not sure what the difference between Turbo and not turbo is.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 05:31 PM
Give me a few minutes while I check mine, I'm not sure if I have a Turbo or not.

I'll be right back. :)

Nate152
01-20-2017, 05:34 PM
Yep, CPU Turbo Target should show 4800MHz.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 05:38 PM
Alright so the 15 minutes are up. Three "Result Hash Match!"'s. The hottest core was jumping all over the 70s. It seemed to gradually get warmer, getting to 79 towards the end.
Vcore stayed at a steady 1.328v. I didn't get a look at VCCSA during, but it averaged 1.148v.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 05:45 PM
Ok that looks good for the first test and max temp of 79 is very good.

Go back into the bios and just raise the cpu core ratio to 49, F10 and Enter and run the test just as you did monitoring temps and voltages.

VCCSA voltage is great so you can just post the cpu temps and the Vcore. It's using less voltage than 1.35v and that's a great sign.

You're now at 4.9GHz and creeping up on 5.0Ghz. :)

What are cpu temps and Vcore showing while running the test?

FDSage
01-20-2017, 05:55 PM
BSOD =/
Right after hitting start on the stress test.
It at least restarted itself afterwards. I'm back in the BIOS.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 06:00 PM
OK, in DiGi+ try raising LLC to level 6, F10 and Enter and see if the test starts.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 06:03 PM
I'm guessing that's relatively normal?
I also don't want the cpu to get TOO hot, since video encoding uses 100% and can last for over an hour for long videos.
I'll turn up the LLC and see what happens.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 06:14 PM
Yes we can expect some BSOD's when overclocking and is normal, temps are good for your cooler and voltage. From what I've been seeing so far most 7700k's can hit 5.0GHz with 1.35v.

If I'm not mistaken Raja has a 7700k to 5.0GHz with 1.35v or there about.

But yeah try the LLC to level 6 and see if the test will run. You can do an encoding test once we find your max overclock and see if there is a temp difference, some people stress test their cpu's for hours or even overnight so I don't really see a problem with 79c temp for an hour or a little more.

How does she go with LLC at level 6 ?

FDSage
01-20-2017, 06:20 PM
Computer locked up 1 minute into the test.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 06:25 PM
OK she's close to running the test.

Try LLC to level 7 if it still BSOD's/freezes then try level 8.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 06:29 PM
Okay, trying Level 7. There is no 8, though. 7 is max on here.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 06:33 PM
All right,

Fingers crossed with level 7. :)

FDSage
01-20-2017, 06:38 PM
4 minutes in.
Getting close to 90c on Core #0.
Vcore is at 1.392v.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 06:42 PM
Blue screen of death about 7 minutes in.
...also a high pitched noise coming from the PC.

EDIT: That high pitched noise is coming from a TV in another room, apparently. lol.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 06:55 PM
All right

Let me go check some of my settings and see if they may help, be right back in a few minutes.

Nate152
01-20-2017, 07:18 PM
I have

Asus Multicore Enhancement - Disabled
TPU - Keep current settings
EPU power saving mode - Disabled

We shouldn't really have to change much other than the cpu core ratio and cpu core/cache voltage.

I'm not sure if those settings will help much.

Try LLC at level 4 and cpu core/cache voltage at 1.40v, this will likely be the limit since you are approaching 90c, if it goes over 90c stop the test.

FDSage
01-20-2017, 07:24 PM
I do need to get some things done. I can try again later.

For now it should be safe to run 4.8GHz with LLC level 4, right?

Nate152
01-20-2017, 07:38 PM
Yes 4.8GHz is fine with 1.35v and LLC to level 4.

Sure, whenever you get a chance give us an update.

When Raja gets a chance maybe he can share his settings and shed a little light on getting to 5.0GHz. :)

FDSage
01-20-2017, 07:45 PM
Cool, thanks for getting me overclocked this much! 4.8GHz is pretty satisfying on its own.
If you think it can safely get to 5.0GHz, then awesome!

Nate152
01-20-2017, 08:54 PM
We'll certainly give it a shot. :)

Something else to try is:

cpu core ratio - 49
cpu core/cache voltage - 1.35v
LLC - level 6

Add .02v to the SA and IO voltages

F10 and Enter and try the test.

Raja@ASUS
01-21-2017, 09:14 AM
Yes 4.8GHz is fine with 1.35v and LLC to level 4.

Sure, whenever you get a chance give us an update.

When Raja gets a chance maybe he can share his settings and shed a little light on getting to 5.0GHz. :)

A straight 5GHz isn't for every CPU. If it were me, I would have overclocked the CPU gradually, noting the required Vcore with every ratio increase. I'd find the inflection point and then run the CPU at a frequency at or below that point. To maximize frequency headroom, I'd also use AVX offset. These things require some patience and a solid methodology.

Nate152
01-21-2017, 02:35 PM
Hey Raja !

The AVX offset must be a new feature with kabylake, I'm pretty sure I don't have that so you can tell FDSage how to set that. :)

I see Menthol got awesome results with his new maximus IX apex board and 7700k using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility, I haven't used that and I'm going to give it a try myself.

Now I'm pretty sure he bins his cpu's but 5.37GHz with 1.424v is out of this world good and his ram at 4266MHz as well.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?90403-IX-Apex-overclockers-delight&p=628383#post628383

Just wondering if maybe using the Intel Extreme Utility might give better results. I installed it and gave it a run with my 6700k overclocked to 4.75GHz with the cpu core/cache voltage on auto, the only thing is I don't know what voltage it was drawing as XTU is reporting the core voltage at 0.000v. I can pass the cpu stress test with the voltage on auto but the benchmark locks up.

So that is a 550MHz overclock, I figure if it can pass the cpu stress test it's stable for pretty much anything else. 4.8GHz is out of reach for me, 1.52v is not enough which is Intels maximum.

FDSage - You could try the Intel XTU and see how it goes with auto voltage, you can watch your temps and do your overclocking right from it too. Click the little blue wrench on the right to bring up what you want to monitor.

Core voltage 0.000v ?

62034

The core ratio is set to 23 because I have the BCLK at 206.5

62035

Raja@ASUS
01-21-2017, 05:19 PM
I wouldn't jump all over this just because of someone else's results with a particular utility. XTU simply runs a version of Prime.

FDSage
01-21-2017, 06:49 PM
Maybe it would be a good idea for me to stay at these settings?
I feel pretty safe with these speeds and temperatures. I've heard of lot of people reaching their limit at 4.8 and the voltages had a pretty big jump going to 4.9GHz. I probably won't notice a significant improvement with an additional 200MHz and I'm not feeling too risky. :eek:

Raja@ASUS
01-21-2017, 07:46 PM
Given how your CPU is scaling with voltage, I'd say that's wise.

Nate152
01-21-2017, 08:09 PM
Would the AVX offset help him any Raja ? I'm sure it's for programs that use AVX instuctions which sky rocket cpu temps such as stress testing programs, just curious if it helps a little or alot with temps.

Nate152
01-22-2017, 12:59 PM
Hey Raja and FDSage,


I found this video and this guy says you can get another 200 MHz using the AVX offset and he didn't even touch the voltages.

FDSage - Since you're stable at 4.8GHz this may get you to 5.0 GHz.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCNk_Ma0eI4

RedLir
01-22-2017, 06:15 PM
Hey Raja and FDSage,


I found this video and this guy says you can get another 200 MHz using the AVX offset and he didn't even touch the voltages.

FDSage - Since you're stable at 4.8GHz this may get you to 5.0 GHz.

...


I'm certain he touched voltages. ( I believe it was 1.30v) This is the video before the one you linked in the series.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUlEcixRBhM

Just for reference, my Maximus IX Hero and 7700K is set to 5GHZ @ 1.325 volts, LLC 5 and I have the AVX set to 3, so it drops to 4.7 in those cases.
During the load testing with Real Bench, I did see cores drop to 4.7 occasionally.

In my case, I will be deliding later this week. Core 0 will hit 87 degrees max ( average around 77 ) and Core 3 only ever hits 76 max. This is with Gelid Extreme GC and a Corsair H115 with Noctua industrial 3000 RPMs. Reseating the block had no effect. Core 0 seems to have wild momentary spikes. I'll start a separate thread for this of course.

Cheers,

RedLir

Nate152
01-22-2017, 06:28 PM
Awesome !

Thank you RedLir and looking forward to seeing your thread. :)

FDSage
01-22-2017, 08:06 PM
Thanks, Nate152 and RedLir.
I'll try the AVX offset when I can. I won't be able to try it right away, but I'll try upping the core ratio limit by 2 and adding 2 AVX offset and see how the benchmark goes. Hopefully the 1.35v and LLC 4 it's set at will be fine.

I'll let you know how it goes.

FDSage
01-22-2017, 08:28 PM
No go. Computer locked up as soon as it got into Windows.