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Vangry
02-16-2017, 02:57 AM
Hello there.

Just built a new system with the Z270 Apex motherboard paired with a 7700K and I'm trying to make my G.Skill TridentZ 4266MHz ram to work but the system just won't boot at that frequency. What I did was enabled the XMP profile and dialed the bclk back to 100 which Is weird to be raised when applying the profile since I chose to not apply any core enhancements In the first place. The good thing Is that I can still run the ram at 4133MHz but not the Rams advertised speed. Is there any specific settings or voltages that I need to Input on top of the XMP*
Profile for the rated speed to work or Is It just my CPUs memory controller not able to handle 4266MHZ?
*

Praz
02-16-2017, 03:29 AM
Hello

There is no native memory divider that will allow for 4266MHz memory speed which is why BCLK was increased when XMP was enabled. With such a a high memory overclock manual tuning should be expected instead of plug n' play.

Vangry
02-16-2017, 04:50 AM
Hello

There is no native memory divider that will allow for 4266MHz memory speed which is why BCLK was increased when XMP was enabled. With such a a high memory overclock manual tuning should be expected instead of plug n' play.

Well that explains alot Thanks.*

P.S After enabling XMP and allowing It to Increase the bclk to 103 the system booted but there Is still an Issue with the motherboard posting at that frequency,sometimes It would post and sometimes It wont and would require clearing cmos.Tbh I lack the knowledge to manually tune It In. Any specific place I should start with?

Raja@ASUS
02-16-2017, 06:59 AM
Try Maximus Tweak mode 2, SA/IO voltage tuning, and/or the single sided 2x8GB Samsung profile for 4133 (which is tuned for performance). 4266 is actually slower than the tuned 4133 profile and should be easier to achieve for most CPUs.

meankeys
02-16-2017, 09:05 AM
When E F HUTTON speaks everybody listens. :) thanks for the tip Raja

Vangry
02-16-2017, 06:15 PM
Try Maximus Tweak mode 2, SA/IO voltage tuning, and/or the single sided 2x8GB Samsung profile for 4133 (which is tuned for performance). 4266 is actually slower than the tuned 4133 profile and should be easier to achieve for most CPUs.

Just tried 4266 tweak mode 2 and SA/IO on auto which shoots their voltage to over 1.3v and the system booted fine but crashed In the first minutes when running
Real Bench with DPC-Watchdog bsod 0x133. I guess It requires a vcore over 1.4v which I don't feel comfortable enough to use for a 24/7 build. However when I set the memory at 4133 CL19 @ 5.1GHz adaptive 1.380v bios/1.392v cpuz my system passed an hour long test of Real Bench and Prime95 with SA/IO 1.225v/1.2v. Unfortunately the single sided 2x8GB Samsung profile for 4133 didn't boot for me at 5.1GHz the timings are pretty Impressive though. Those were my findings I hope you could share some Insight on what's better to push for.

Thanks.

Raja@ASUS
02-17-2017, 07:47 AM
Just tried 4266 tweak mode 2 and SA/IO on auto which shoots their voltage to over 1.3v and the system booted fine but crashed In the first minutes when running
Real Bench with DPC-Watchdog bsod 0x133. I guess It requires a vcore over 1.4v which I don't feel comfortable enough to use for a 24/7 build. However when I set the memory at 4133 CL19 @ 5.1GHz adaptive 1.380v bios/1.392v cpuz my system passed an hour long test of Real Bench and Prime95 with SA/IO 1.225v/1.2v. Unfortunately the single sided 2x8GB Samsung profile for 4133 didn't boot for me at 5.1GHz the timings are pretty Impressive though. Those were my findings I hope you could share some Insight on what's better to push for.

Thanks.

At 5.1Ghz you are likely going to deal with trade offs. You can try the 24/7 Samsung profile again, but with a command rate of 2 to start with. If that doesnt work, increase CAS and tRCD by +1 and see if that helps. After that, you can focus on getting CR1.

Vangry
02-17-2017, 03:46 PM
At 5.1Ghz you are likely going to deal with trade offs. You can try the 24/7 Samsung profile again, but with a command rate of 2 to start with. If that doesnt work, increase CAS and tRCD by +1 and see if that helps. After that, you can focus on getting CR1.

Command rate 2 did the trick for me the profile worked thanks. Is CR1 much faster than CR2?

http://i.imgur.com/lXNqIXY.jpg

Raja@ASUS
02-20-2017, 01:39 AM
If 1T can be had, it is worthwhile. Interestingly, this platform allows sub 1 clock command rate adjustments (1T+). Something I mean to get around to testing, but haven't toyed with yet. Probably be a few weeks before I can.

In the meantime, if you can get 1T - even by adding +1 to CAS and tRCD - I would do it. Evaluate how much more voltage is needed, though. Either way, the settings you are running now are faster than XMP for this memory kit, so no big deal if 1T can't be achieved.

Vangry
02-21-2017, 03:48 PM
If 1T can be had, it is worthwhile. Interestingly, this platform allows sub 1 clock command rate adjustments (1T+). Something I mean to get around to testing, but haven't toyed with yet. Probably be a few weeks before I can.

In the meantime, if you can get 1T - even by adding +1 to CAS and tRCD - I would do it. Evaluate how much more voltage is needed, though. Either way, the settings you are running now are faster than XMP for this memory kit, so no big deal if 1T can't be achieved.

Awesome. So far everything Is stable at the current settings passed 8 hours of Realbench with max memory load, now I'm pushing the cache as high as possible without adding extra Vcore. After that I will aim for CR 1 hopefully I could achieve that. Other than that I'm very happy with my results so far.

Thank you again for your time.

Silent Scone@ASUS
02-21-2017, 04:13 PM
Awesome. So far everything Is stable at the current settings passed 8 hours of Realbench with max memory load, now I'm pushing the cache as high as possible without adding extra Vcore. After that I will aim for CR 1 hopefully I could achieve that. Other than that I'm very happy with my results so far.

Thank you again for your time.

Where as you might well be fine, if memory stability is what you are looking to establish - try Google Stress App test or HCI Memtest pro.

Doug2507
03-15-2017, 05:27 PM
Looking for help raja...

Passed 2hrs of hci with sticks at 4300-17-17-1t 1.45/1.26/1.28. They're totally fine in windows the 1 in 50 times it actually boots. Restarted after that and back to 2b/55.

Basically a coin toss for booting. My fingers getting a blister from retry/mem ok. ;)

Anything to help boot? Changed from 701 to 801 and now can't even boot xmp 2t never mind any tuning. (2b/55)

Sorting rtl's wasn't easy either, 69/15/62/7 but finally sorted to 61/7/62/7

jab383
03-15-2017, 10:46 PM
Wow. 4300 cl17. Doin' good. I have some of the same booting trouble. The suggestion is not to boot in the Windows operating condition.

I have ram set for 4133 cl14. I boot with 100MHz Bclk and elevated RAM voltage. "Eventual RAM voltage" in tweaker's paradise is set for the lower running voltage that is more stable for me. After booting into windows, I raise Bclk to get near 4200. Even then, I have to beat the retry button a few times.

Have you tried tweaking Vppddr? I found that levels a little lower than the automatic work well with Samsung b-die.

For a RAM stability test, try y-cruncher, the benchmark from HWBOT. It's the most stringent test of both CPU and RAM I have found. The 1b benchmark runs in about a minute and a half. If RAM passes that, it will run anything. Be sure to run a very stable CPU profile so that you can blame RAM if y-cruncher throws errors. Likewise, use a very stable RAM profile to test the CPU.

elmor
03-16-2017, 04:14 AM
Looking for help raja...

Passed 2hrs of hci with sticks at 4300-17-17-1t 1.45/1.26/1.28. They're totally fine in windows the 1 in 50 times it actually boots. Restarted after that and back to 2b/55.

Basically a coin toss for booting. My fingers getting a blister from retry/mem ok. ;)

Anything to help boot? Changed from 701 to 801 and now can't even boot xmp 2t never mind any tuning. (2b/55)

Sorting rtl's wasn't easy either, 69/15/62/7 but finally sorted to 61/7/62/7

You can try MRC Fast Boot = Enabled and setting Initial BCLK Frequency (Tweaker's paradise) to 2 MHz lower than BCLK Frequency.

Doug2507
03-16-2017, 09:31 AM
Cheers guys, I shall test further.

I even swapped to rajas profile last night which wouldn't post, dropped primaries to 19, still no boot. Had to put secondaries to auto and finally got in, ran aida then on restart back to 55. Just seems buggy as hell and extremely inconsistent hence the frustration.

I've played about with pretty much all voltages (boot/eventual) and still never been able to boot a set of timings twice in a row.

Also checked down at 3866. Took them all the way down to cl14 with ease on 2t but couldn't even get cl16 to boot 1t.

Doesn't seem to make a difference having bclk on 100 or 104, still won't post 99/100.

All seems very strange considering I was able to 2hr hci 4300c17 without error, 4360 32m and 4400 1m.


Maybe insignificant but my board totally reset itself (not even saved profiles retained) a few days ago before even touching these sticks.

I'll check sticks individually today and cross check channels.

Doug2507
03-16-2017, 01:53 PM
Tried getting them running again but back to 701. Just keeps getting progressively worse and now 2b everytime even on xmp/2t.

I'll test with another chip this weekend but failing that looks like I'll need to grab another board to check.

Doug2507
03-16-2017, 10:08 PM
Persevered today and checked 0026 also. Nothing but bad news, now pch debug galore. IMC?

Doug2507
03-17-2017, 11:45 AM
All done at 3866.

Off the bat with all timings done 55/E5/49. WTF E5 is I've no idea, 1st time.

All timings back to auto bar primaries...

16/1t - 55/49. Tested vDIMM 1.4-1.55, IO 1.175-1.265, SA 1.2-1.3.
16/2t - Post. 61/7/68/15. Trained correctly once, 59/60, fixed manually - restart - 2b.
17/1t - Post. 66/14/68/15.
17/2t - Post. 61/62.

All this was done with GPU removed, NVME's removed, 2nd CPU 8pin added, x2 monitors.

0701 used. Have tested 0026/0701/0801 past 24hrs and no difference between them.

All tested with low core/cache, 1.15v cpu standby, 1.05v PCH, Phase Extreme, CPU/DRAM current 130%, MRC enabled, Mode 2.

Both 16/2t & 17/2t either don't post with DP monitor or DP monitor looses signal after post.

Tested all of the above with 3600C16 & 4266C19 Tridentz. Same results for both.

Nothing above 4k will post now.

3600 sticks on xmp with 1t boot but won't train correctly regardless of voltage. 62/13/64/14.

Few days ago I had 3733-15-15-1t 3hrs+ HCI stable on the 3600 sticks, 1.43/1.165/1.125.

2 days later BIOS reset of it's own accord.

4266 sticks initially ran 4300-17-17-1t with ease at 1.45//1.25/1.275. (didn't test for lowest v)

Raja's profile no post even at 19-19-2t.

Trying to get 4133/4266 to post last night resulted in 2b/55/04/78/79/62 & a 19 loop. Also had a 3F and D5 in there somewhere.

Menthol
03-17-2017, 01:59 PM
Doug, don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I also have a lot of issues with tight memory timings, 4F, 55, 01,03, Raja's preset doesn't boot for me either, but will at 19-19-2T
working with 3 mem kits, 4266 19-19-19, 4133 RGB 18-18-18, 3600 15-15-15

Doug2507
03-17-2017, 02:21 PM
Not at all mate. Pretty sure the mems are good as initially had no problems but things have deteriorated. I check with another cpu 1st then another board, pretty much exhausted everything else! CPU is non-proven for tight mem so could well be IMC, probably more likely than board tbh. Can't see those volt's being to stressful on IMC but never know, stranger things have happened. The joys of OC! :) And the irony, this is a 24/7 build!!!

Just checked the 3600's at xmp but slackened to 17-17. Same shizzle, won't train at 1t. 66/14/66/15. 1t capability has been officially nuked!

Raja@ASUS
03-17-2017, 03:36 PM
Doug, don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I also have a lot of issues with tight memory timings, 4F, 55, 01,03, Raja's preset doesn't boot for me either, but will at 19-19-2T
working with 3 mem kits, 4266 19-19-19, 4133 RGB 18-18-18, 3600 15-15-15


The CPUs are variable. I purchased a retail CPU recently and found It isn't as good as my other sample. Same board, same memory. Struggles upwards of 4133, unlike my other CPU. Same board I used to create the profile, too. At these levels, every little thing matters. That's why the profiles are only starting points. You'll have to tune for whatever your setup can do consistently.

Doug2507
03-17-2017, 03:43 PM
Pretty much my thoughts as well Raja although I would've expected to see cache tumble also. Still runs strong, just mem capability has dropped considerably. See what happens with another chip in.

jab383
03-21-2017, 04:56 PM
Things can get weird with just one CPU. My CPU and 4266 19-19-19 kit will tune to 14-16-16-33-1 at 4133, ie. highest ratio without extending bclk. CR1 works fine. I tried for faster timing at 4000, but couldn't get CR1 to work with any CL.

meankeys
03-21-2017, 11:38 PM
Raja - I have been running your timings preset for some time now. Under 1.55v I was getting long boots and failed starts till I did increase the voltage. a bit.

thank you

Raja@ASUS
03-22-2017, 07:33 AM
Raja - I have been running your timings preset for some time now. Under 1.55v I was getting long boots and failed starts till I did increase the voltage. a bit.

thank you

The profile is really just a starting point. Voltages and some of the sub-timings may need setting up on a case-by-case basis.

meankeys
03-22-2017, 08:03 AM
Thanks Raja

If I wanted to tighten up the timings a bit more... what timings would I want to adjust to squeeze a little more performance out of this kit.

Raja@ASUS
03-22-2017, 08:35 AM
You'd have to look at the tertiary timing set and see if you can pull any down by 1 clock. Be warned, it's likely quite close to the limit if you're having to increase voltage just to run the base profile. From a headroom perspective, there may be more leeway in the different rank/DIMM timings than same DIMM/rank.

meankeys
03-22-2017, 11:33 PM
You'd have to look at the tertiary timing set and see if you can pull any down by 1 clock. Be warned, it's likely quite close to the limit if you're having to increase voltage just to run the base profile. From a headroom perspective, there may be more leeway in the different rank/DIMM timings than same DIMM/rank.

Rodger That - Thanks I will play around a bit and see if I can tighten things up a bit.

m0nsky
03-24-2017, 12:59 PM
Try Maximus Tweak mode 2, SA/IO voltage tuning, and/or the single sided 2x8GB Samsung profile for 4133 (which is tuned for performance). 4266 is actually slower than the tuned 4133 profile and should be easier to achieve for most CPUs.

Been running your 4133 MHz profile for a while now, bumped the voltage to 1.4650v and set the frequency to 4300 MHz, awesome stuff really. Paired with my i7-7700K @ 5.1 GHz it's performing way better than when it was running at 5.2 GHz w/ the 3100 MHz CL12 setup I had before.

Raja@ASUS
03-24-2017, 01:06 PM
Nice. Thanks for the feedback.

slow4cyl
03-24-2017, 11:35 PM
Hi there,

I seem to have my system setup rock solid stable at the moment with a 7700K at 5000mhz and memory at 4133mhz.

I can POST at 4266 XMP profile, but its a roll of the dice. Sometimes it just hangs at 49/55 no matter what I do. Reading everyone elses experience, this seems normal.

I was able to get these sticks to POST at 1.4V and a lower SA/VCCIO 100% of the time by loading the memory XMP profile, dropping the BCLK back down to 100 (sets it to 4133) and change the main timings from 19 19 to 18 18

Wish I could use Raja's profile, but it seems to have trouble on my setup when trying to go past 3866mhz on the memory, even in 2N. Is this just a limitation of the processor I have?

Regards

Toolguns
03-28-2017, 04:41 PM
Awesome. So far everything Is stable at the current settings passed 8 hours of Realbench with max memory load, now I'm pushing the cache as high as possible without adding extra Vcore. After that I will aim for CR 1 hopefully I could achieve that. Other than that I'm very happy with my results so far.

Thank you again for your time.

Couple of Questions, hope you can help.
I also have the same setup as you (TridentZ RGB 4266MHZ + 7700K)

Did you manually OC the CPU to 5.1 ghz or did you have Asus Software auto OC it for you?

I ran the Asus Auto OC and it got my 7700k to 5.1 ghz as well, I then went into Bios and enabled XMP to 4266 and was crashing and got a blue screen error.
I think I want to try what you did(To achieve 5.1ghz and 4133mhz Memory) since you had success using the same exact components as I.

Any tips/help would be greatly appreciated, my first build and I'm not very savvy with OC, but I know I should OC a bit since this Motherboard is built for that.

Thanks in advance.

Raja@ASUS
03-30-2017, 05:39 AM
Hi there,

I seem to have my system setup rock solid stable at the moment with a 7700K at 5000mhz and memory at 4133mhz.

I can POST at 4266 XMP profile, but its a roll of the dice. Sometimes it just hangs at 49/55 no matter what I do. Reading everyone elses experience, this seems normal.

I was able to get these sticks to POST at 1.4V and a lower SA/VCCIO 100% of the time by loading the memory XMP profile, dropping the BCLK back down to 100 (sets it to 4133) and change the main timings from 19 19 to 18 18

Wish I could use Raja's profile, but it seems to have trouble on my setup when trying to go past 3866mhz on the memory, even in 2N. Is this just a limitation of the processor I have?

Regards

Probably a combination of the CPU and memory timing/related voltages needing some manual tuning.

Toolguns
03-30-2017, 07:11 AM
Command rate 2 did the trick for me the profile worked thanks. Is CR1 much faster than CR2?

http://i.imgur.com/lXNqIXY.jpg

Did you get your stable OC by using your memory @ 4,133 CL19 adaptive bios voltage settings or did you get it to work by using the Samsung Profile as instead? (+CR2)
Also trying to tune mine at 4,133mhz with same memory kit and cpu.