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View Full Version : A little quiet in here.......



mdzcpa
10-08-2017, 05:23 AM
I know its been a crazy year. Kaby Lake never had a chance to settled in. X299 refreshed the HEDT segment. AMD stirred it all up with Ryzen and TR. Maybe folks are just burned out of the new hardware rolling out each quarter. Even if Coffee Lake was a bit rushed by Intel to get into the "more than 4" core arena for enthusiast mainstream, so far these systems appear to be solid beasts. But the lack of internet buzz around Coffee Lake is remarkable.

My current Kaby Lake build (which I love) is going to the wife who is in need of an upgrade. She is still rocking her Devils Canyon and Hero VII, but its time to bump that down to our guest rig for holiday LAN gaming sessions. I'm not sure I'd upgrade from Kaby to Coffee just for the 2 extra cores, but since I'm in the market for new build, I think I'm going to really enjoy it. Kaby was my first non HEDT build in many years and I'm looking for a few more cores now for non gaming activities.

I hope to see some discussion on Coffee Lake & Z370 boards here soon. I won't be building for a few more months and I'm going to choose my parts very carefully. I'm also going back to full on custom water cooling. Post up your Z370 plans if you have 'em

This is the quietest release I can remember in a decade (short of some really lame AMD releases a few years back).

Korth
10-08-2017, 06:14 AM
Intel's CFL launch strategy is all over the map, lol. Their marketing almost appears panicked, they're mud-slinging AMD and trying to assert Intel superiority in consumer and enterprise markets, obvious lack of focus. Trying to push CFL and Z370 (and, presumably other 300 Series chipsets) out the door before they've fully matured 200 Series (and X299 HEDT).

I think Intel got too complacent and caught off guard. They've been artificially structuring Intel dependency for too long, charging ever-increasing prices for too long, arbitrarily locking and limiting features for too long. AMD's products have problems of their own but they (need to) enable and unlock everything possible so their products look compelling and Intel's proprietary lockouts become more evident to the majority.

And then Intel carries the burden of things like Optane. They've already invested (and advertised) so heavily that they're caught in a trap, they have to keep buying more ongoing R&D to figure out a way to make Optane worth all the hype and expectation. AMD has no such burden.

I don't like being exposed to generation after generation of rushed architectures and rushed mobo implementations. Mountains of uncorrected (and uncorrectable) errata keep piling up while another mountain of other issues have not even been properly identified. Just no time to fix existing products when you're behind on upcoming products! But at least the stuff on the very high end tends to remain aggressively supported for a while, long enough to address the most egregious flaws and oversights.

I do like the competitive stimulus. Intel and AMD want our money and loyalty, ASUS and all the rest want our money and loyalty. They have to keep doing better and keep pricing lower to stay ahead of the competition. So we get more options at lower costs. Though I doubt the momentum can be sustained indefinitely, things will settle down to "the old ways" soon enough.

Silent Scone@ROG
10-08-2017, 09:44 AM
Stock is extremely limited currently.

Nerror
10-08-2017, 11:22 AM
Stock is extremely limited currently.

Indeed. I ordered my CPU + Mobo 20 minutes past midnight on the 5th (CPU is still on backorder), and I am starting to wonder about the ASUS motherboard stock as well. The Maximus X Hero WI-FI AC I ordered was sold out within a day as well (I'm in Denmark), so now I am hoping they actually set one aside for me while it was still in stock, while I am waiting for them to get the 8700K from their supplier. I probably should have made them separate orders :p

Once people start actually getting the products the hype and discussion will probably go up a bit.

mandomagic
10-08-2017, 01:00 PM
Maybe wait for the z390 to come out second half next year. Rumours have it that intel might have a 8 core coffee lake that comes with it and maybe even ice lake.

I thought about coffee lake as an upgrade to my 3570k but see the z370 as a one chip board. Just bought a 7740k and an Apex board. Don't really need a 6 cores yet.

MrAgapiGC
10-08-2017, 01:13 PM
I did have the same idea. I want to get z370 cause the six core since i am starting to make streams in my facebook club here in panama. beside i still running a 6700k on a z270 board. I am happy but i was planning to get more cores. Intel just push the chips to fast 3 generacions in less of a year time just to outpaced amd. is nuts. Many thinks that new chip cheaper prices. WRONG. i will try to get the 8700k when they are on stock.

Nerror
10-08-2017, 02:01 PM
Maybe wait for the z390 to come out second half next year. Rumours have it that intel might have a 8 core coffee lake that comes with it and maybe even ice lake.

I thought about coffee lake as an upgrade to my 3570k but see the z370 as a one chip board. Just bought a 7740k and an Apex board. Don't really need a 6 cores yet.

The Z390 could very well be a year away though.

Personally I'm on a 2500K @4.5GHz. It's still decent, but it's definitely starting to show its age, so I am not going to wait any longer :)

Korth
10-08-2017, 02:11 PM
lol @Nerror - I see you already got your upgrade plan - Z370 MAXIMUS X, i7-8700K, 2x16GB DDR4-4000.

(You may need to buy an LGA1151 socket-refit kit for your NH-D15, if you're recycling it from your old LGA1155 system.)

mandomagic
10-08-2017, 02:13 PM
The Z390 could very well be a year away though.

Personally I'm on a 2500K @4.5GHz. It's still decent, but it's definitely starting to show its age, so I am not going to wait any longer :)

I got tired of waiting but waited the 8700k benchmarks and went with a 7740x. There is very little single core ipc performance increase between the 2. I know the x299 is more expensive but I mainly need single core performance with the games I play and it offers an upgrade path. Hopefully end of next year there will be a coffee lake extreme on socket 2066.

Not many games use 6 cores but with ryzen and intels ditching the 4 cores this will change but not for a while.

8700k should be great though and see you through the next 5 years especially coming from a 2500k but OP does not really need to upgrade soon and has time to wait.

There has been lots of hype just not here regarding z370. Just look at the intel reddit forum people are going nuts trying a buy a coffee lake,

Nerror
10-08-2017, 02:28 PM
lol @Nerror - I see you already got your upgrade plan - Z370 MAXIMUS X, i7-8700K, 2x16GB DDR4-4000.

(You may need to buy an LGA1151 socket-refit kit for your NH-D15, if you're recycling it from your old LGA1155 system.)

I ordered the parts at least. :D Well, the RAM I am still slightly undecided on. The NH-D15 is coming brand new, so I hope it fits..?

Korth
10-08-2017, 03:01 PM
NH-D15 does advertise LGA1151 compatibility. (http://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification)

I use Raijintek TISIS (http://www.raijintek.com/en/products_detail.php?ProductID=10) on my 140W Haswell-EPs, it's a serious mass of metal, even bigger and beastlier than the mighty NH-D15. Held back in the comparisons/reviews by the junk thermal paste and the crappy Raijinktek fans it comes with ... much better looking, slightly better cooling, and similar overall price vs NH-D15 when fitted with a premium paste and Noctua fans, lol.

The rest of my huge dual-tower CPU cooler short list: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 (https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/482) (beautiful, "silent", 250W-rated). Cryorig R1 Ultimate. (http://www.cryorig.com/r1-ultimate_us.php) Phanteks PH-TC14PE. (http://www.phanteks.com/PH-TC14PE.html) Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme (http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-ib-e-extreme/) (SB-E and IB-E variants).

It's hard to beat the NH-D15 on cooling performance, it's powerful and proven, but it's just so nasty mocha-chocolate cheap-metal ugly that I make the extra effort, lol. It turns out a refitted black nickel-chrome TISIS with black(ish) Noctua iPPC fans provides even better cooling ... but it's such a tight fit that great care must be taken with motherboard/GPU/RAM selections ... and it took me a long time to get rid of those lousy Raijintek fans, lol.

Korth
10-08-2017, 03:50 PM
Well, I've seen about an half dozen threads already (including my own (https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?96429-ASUS-Z370-motherboards!)) which announced ASUS Z370 mobos to the ROG forums, along with another half dozen or so asking when the MAXIMUS X EXTREME will be available, lol. Seems all the attention is on Z370 (not any other 300 Series chipsets), MAXIMUS (not PRIME or STRIX or TUF), and EXTREME (because ROG enthusiasts want extreme, lol).

Z370 is awkwardly positioned. Not much of a real upgrade (outside synthetic benchmarks) over 2xx/KBL or even 1xx/SKL, at least not a compelling enough upgrade for "normal" people to justify replacing their 1-/2-year old motherboards and CPUs with shiny new 3xx/CFL equivalents. Not a linear upgrade for people who bought HEDT (TR4, X299, or even X99). Not a bang-for-the-buck upgrade for people who bought bang-for-the-buck AM4/Ryzen. Only a compelling upgrade for people still using old DDR3-era platforms.

mdzcpa
10-08-2017, 09:02 PM
I would agree there is no compelling need to upgrade from a 1-2 year system. But if you're in the market for current mainstream enthusiast, CL is now the go to system IMO. Kaby Lake is essentially obsolete. A lot of people do not need 16+ threads. For me, though, 2 more core for gaming and streaming and a few other tasks is quite welcome. I also am not sold on the AMD Ryzen/TR platform being completely mature just yet for my liking. I am an old AMD fan but I think current product needs a generation to finish teething...hopefully better chipset/mobo/optimization/support will come. Coffee Lake/370 may be a mostly paper, very rushed launch, but it still is going to be the next in line.

That all said....if I stall long enough for CL parts, I may have time to look at AMD again....

In any case, I enjoy the discussion ;)

Korth
10-08-2017, 10:10 PM
Faster cores is good. More cores is also good. i7-8700K vs i7-7700K is a no-brainer. And Intel couldn't possibly choose a worse TIM than that junk they used in KBL, pretty sad when de-lidding is accepted as standard practice because otherwise the chip just won't work at rated speeds, lol.

But it doesn't really seem as useful for gaming as you might hope, at least not with current games. It could really shine on titles released in a few years (by which time we'll be drooling over Z470 or Z570 chipsets with Cannon Lake or Ice Lake or Tiger Lake processors, lol).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPvgoQ64E08

(Don't forget about the faster-better AM4 Ryzen Pro parts which also just "coincidentally" released, some a few months ago, some still TBA, none readily available for most consumers in actual practice.)