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View Full Version : So, MCE, no MCE, XMP, no XMP or what?



Dovakhan
11-23-2017, 08:16 AM
Hi, I've an i7 8700K and 16 GBs DDR4 3000 on a ROG Strix Z370G-Gaming Wifi AC. I'm just a regular user (not an overclocker or anything), and I just want my new PC to work at the CPU's vanilla specs and the RAM at it's specced 3000. So I've a couple of questions...

1) MCE was disabled by default in BIOS 0419 and backwards, right? (I was using 0419 up until yesterday, when I updated to 0430).

2) In order to achieve what I want, I must activate XMP and deactivate MCE, right? Does MCE stays deactivated if you configure the UEFI like that, or you must deactivate XMP as well? (I've heard that they're tied to each other).

3) How does MCE really work anyway? And to what extent does it OC's the CPU? It was NOT my intention to OC my CPU in ANY way up until I decided to do so, and it's definitely not ready for an OC, neither I want to shorten it's lifespan with unnecessary frequencies and voltage right now.

Thanks for the replies.

SherardG
11-23-2017, 12:23 PM
Hi Dovakhan,

Use the newest available BIOS and leave everything at default (though most would suggest to tune everything up to spec) - activate XMP profile for your memory sticks, that's about it.

MCE gives a healthy dose of voltage (in my experience, too much of it) so I set it off and put IA DC/IA AC at 0.01 & LLC @ 5, SVID at BCS, manually set sync all cores at 47 and manually set voltage @ adaptive with negative offset. At least for stock CPU frequencies that should work. It's more aggressive than Intel's stock turbo boost, so I'd recommend to set it to disabled.

I think that the latest BIOS should be less aggressive with the voltage, but let's wait for our resident expert's advise before changing anything.

Dovakhan
11-23-2017, 02:08 PM
"Leaving everything at default" leaves MCE activated :p

For now, until my questions are officially replied, I've deactivated both XMP and MCE, and switched my RAM to the default SPD (2133). Conservative, you may say, but I spent 3 years saving for this rig, and like Hell I'm gonna risk it for a couple extra FPS.

Hopeywolf
11-23-2017, 11:17 PM
Turning on me on the newest bios was a lot better in thermal performance vs the last update

Crysto
11-24-2017, 03:28 AM
Dovakhan, I believe with the factory included BIOS MCE is indeed on by default, but possibly not in the newer versions, I'd suggest updating to the latest. However in all versions if you set XMP to enabled it will ask you whether or not to enable XMP, and as you've mentioned you can just set it manually to be off.
If you want to make sure excessive voltage isn't being applied with your BIOS settings, just open up CPU-Z and if you're under 1.3v you have nothing to worry about, and you can see the behaviour of your CPU speed. MCE (when I last saw it's awful implementation) was resulting in 1.4v+.

*Hopefully* by now ASUS has released a BIOS version that has sensible voltages and doesn't require intricate tweaking to get Intel like behaviour.

Raja@ASUS
11-24-2017, 03:58 AM
Voltages should be normalized in the newer builds - they were for me.

Dovakhan
11-24-2017, 12:50 PM
Nice replies, but questions 1 & 3 still arent officially replied....

Im assuming that activating XMP alone doesnt magically activate MCE in the background or anything despite having it explicitly disabled in the BIOS setting. Ill double check that option in the BIOS settings anyway, plus voltages.

Raja@ASUS
11-25-2017, 06:25 PM
Check for yourself and you will see. :) I always encourage testing and learning.

Deleted the previous posts asking the same question because the board prompts you when you load xmp. You cannot miss the prompt, which is why I suggested testing and learning. Will take you no longer than making a post here.




Ill double check that option in the BIOS settings anyway, plus voltages.

You already said you'd check, so please go ahead and do so.

Dovakhan
11-27-2017, 10:15 PM
If you want to make sure excessive voltage isn't being applied with your BIOS settings, just open up CPU-Z and if you're under 1.3v you have nothing to worry about, and you can see the behaviour of your CPU speed. MCE (when I last saw it's awful implementation) was resulting in 1.4v+.

*Hopefully* by now ASUS has released a BIOS version that has sensible voltages and doesn't require intricate tweaking to get Intel like behaviour.

I'm getting 1,344v under 100% load (Prime95, max energy usage option), both with XMP activated and deactivated (MCE always off). Is that voltage adequate?

AntonioL
11-27-2017, 10:44 PM
I'm getting 1,344v under 100% load (Prime95, max energy usage option), both with XMP activated and deactivated (MCE always off). Is that voltage adequate?

Those are very high voltages for Intel stock turbos frequencies ! Your CPU probably does not need such values. After tweaking, mine is between 1.16V and 1.20V under load, and that is with a 3600 MHz Ram kit and L3 at 4.2 MHz. Average power is about 125W. I wonder how you can manage to keep your CPU cool with this voltage.
Even with MCE enabled, the CPU is stable with no more than 1,26V.
You had better lower your vcore if you care about lifetime of your CPU. I did not try with latest BIOS, but with 0429, the uncore frequency was oc even with MCE disabled. Did you reduce it ?
By the way, did you also check vccio and vccsa ? They were far too high by default, which can prevent you from lowering vcore while keeping stability.*

Dovakhan
11-27-2017, 11:32 PM
I'm starting to get really angry, and to REALLY, REALLY regret buying an ASUS board. Needless to say that I won't recommend buying them to anybody.

Those are supposed to be 100% stock settings, and now I have to mess with the BIOS in order to put things right. Excellent.

Having said that, would anyone please tell me the exact steps to take in order to put a normal voltage to my CPU? Thanks. Right now I have 0430 BIOS defaults except for XMP on and MCE off.

Starscream
11-28-2017, 12:37 AM
I have been running into the same issues, although with the Maximus. Here is what I did to finally get better voltages, but my temp is still rather high. With these settings I'm averaging 75C under load with spikes up to about 83C.

Cleared CMOS
Enabled XMP
Say yes at the prompt. (Saying no actually caused my CPU to throttle under load due to lack of power)

At this point in time, even with MCE set to Auto, the highest my clocks are going is 4300 under load. Without load, individual cores will hit 4700. (This is with the latest bios, the previous bios caused all cores to be @ 4700 with MCE on auto.)

Raja@ASUS
11-28-2017, 02:45 AM
You can set SVID behaviour to 'best case'.

And please folks, no matter how angry you are, do not use expletives on the forum. It's against the rules. I've removed them from your posts. Any more, and it will be adios.

Dovakhan
11-28-2017, 11:42 AM
I have been running into the same issues, although with the Maximus. Here is what I did to finally get better voltages, but my temp is still rather high. With these settings I'm averaging 75C under load with spikes up to about 83C.

Cleared CMOS
Enabled XMP
Say yes at the prompt. (Saying no actually caused my CPU to throttle under load due to lack of power)

At this point in time, even with MCE set to Auto, the highest my clocks are going is 4300 under load. Without load, individual cores will hit 4700. (This is with the latest bios, the previous bios caused all cores to be @ 4700 with MCE on auto.)

At the end that did it. I loaded the BIOS defaults, activated XMP, then activated MCE - pressed "Yes" at that prompt (also put SVID Behaviour to Best Case, but prior to activating MCE I tried that option alone and it solved nothing), and voltages dropped to 1,1 - 1,16 (Core Voltage - VID) while with Prime95. The temperature also dropped from 65 to 45, under stress test.

Right now I swear that I'd love to go into a rant in order to find the culprit of this mess, the culprit of why MCE works better than the Intel stock config, and the culprit of me frying MY BRAND NEW CPU for almost a month for no good reason. But right now I'd be happy just by knowing what the SVID Behaviour option does, and if it's adequate having it at Best Case by default if it doesn't cause any problems or crashes.

Besides, loading defaults changed the CPU Core Ratio at "Per Core", with all cores at "Auto". Prior to that I had it at "Auto" directly. Are they the same? I think that the "Per Core" option is slightly more aggressive with frequency scaling than the other one, but I'd have to test it more to be sure.

Also, with Windows just loaded, CPU Temp and CPU-Z reports 4,7 Ghz of frequency with 0% (or almost 0%) CPU usage, with VID at 1,27. It stays that way for a minute or so until CPU drops at 800 Mhz (default idle). Should I be worried about that? After that, any future CPU load doesn't surpass the normal frequencies/voltages.

AntonioL
11-28-2017, 01:43 PM
At the end that did it. I loaded the BIOS defaults, activated XMP, then activated MCE - pressed "Yes" at that prompt (also put SVID Behaviour to Best Case, but prior to activating MCE I tried that option alone and it solved nothing), and voltages dropped to 1,1 - 1,16 (Core Voltage - VID) while with Prime95. The temperature also dropped from 65 under stress test to 45.



You don't mind VID, it is just the voltage requested by the CPU. What matters is Vcore.

Your values seem incredible. Running Prime95 at 4,7 GHz on all cores with just 1.1V of Vcore and 45C (even if you happened to use a refrigerated liquid cooling system) is astonishing. Either your monitoring software does not report the right voltage, or your CPU is power/thermal throttling, or you have won the super great price at the silicon lottery, as there must be no more than your chip in the world that can avail itself of such a performance !

Dovakhan
11-28-2017, 03:42 PM
You don't mind VID, it is just the voltage requested by the CPU. What matters is Vcore.

Your values seem incredible. Running Prime95 at 4,7 GHz on all cores with just 1.1V of Vcore and 45C (even if you happened to use a refrigerated liquid cooling system) is astonishing. Either your monitoring software does not report the right voltage, or your CPU is power/thermal throttling, or you have won the super great price at the silicon lottery, as there must be no more than your chip in the world that can avail itself of such a performance !

4,3 in all cores, not 4,7. Also using a Noctua NH-D15S with Kryonaut thermal paste on a PC case with 3 fans, one of them 200mm.

Plus the cold days have already arrived here. Of course that it's gonna be cool >)

Anyway, I still haven't tested extensively (aka, with games) that new config. If that SVID behaviour doesn't cause me issues...then yes, I'd have probably been lucky with the silicon lottery >)

Starscream
11-28-2017, 09:29 PM
I'm glad to hear you made some progress. Either my voltage is still too high, or my deepcool Captian 240 just isn't up to the job of cooling a 6 core. I really like the looks of it though.

I think I'm going to try clearing everything again this weekend, and manually set the clocks @ 4300. I'll manually set the voltage as well. My concern is after I set this, then load the XMP profile, I will end up with a power throttled cpu. Selecting yes at the prompt after selecting XMP must do something with the power... but exactly what it does I'm not sure. It does say in the caption that the only way to revert back from the settings this prompt applies is to clear the CMOS.

Dovakhan
11-29-2017, 12:31 AM
Yeah, thx for your tip Star.

Although I still have those remaining questions. Hopefully Raja will be able to reply to all of them, and close this chapter once and for all.

Then tomorrow I'll test the settings by running games, and if they're stable, then I'd call it closure.

Dovakhan
11-29-2017, 05:31 PM
STILL waiting for an official reply to my latest questions that I published almost 2 days ago. I swear, what a pain it is to get official support from this forum...

The other users have been more helpful than any of the official staff has been so far :P

Silent Scone@ROG
11-29-2017, 06:51 PM
STILL waiting for an official reply to my latest questions that I published almost 2 days ago. I swear, what a pain it is to get official support from this forum...

The other users have been more helpful than any of the official staff has been so far :P

Do you mind if I ask what's stopping you from enabling XMP and testing this yourself if you have the hardware?

Dovakhan
11-30-2017, 09:43 AM
Do you mind if I ask what's stopping you from enabling XMP and testing this yourself if you have the hardware?

1) I already stated that I don't like testing with my new stuff. Nevertheless, I've done it anyway, against my will, out of the inability of the mods to reply simple questions.

2) Test what? I'm asking wheter the MCE option is bugged or not, what does SVID Behaviour exactly do, and if it's recommended to leave it in Best Case by default (and yes, I Googled it), if those CPU Core Ratio options aforementioned are the same, as they seem to be, and if that Windows boot CPU frequency upscale should worry me. There's nothing for me to "test" anymore.

Dovakhan
12-03-2017, 07:34 PM
As I've said in previous posts, I've an i7 8700K (STRIX Z370-G Gaming wifi AC), which was at 1,344v at "stock" settings (MCE off, XMP on). With MCE "Enabled" it jumped back to 1,15-1,20v (also minus 15 C as an added bonus). Right now I have no idea of what's going on with my BIOS settings, or if I even have MCE activated or not (I supposedly don't have it activated, as I have Intel stock core clocks, but like I said, my BIOS says otherwise).

I'm getting REALLY tired of using my PC and thinking "Am I frying my CPU this time? Am I not? Ah, I've to check CPU-Z again, see how the voltages are", instead of just ENJOYING it. Do you understand that there are some customers that just want things to work RIGHT at stock settings, and that they don't like to waste their time (and probably their system's integrity) by "doing test themselves", or did you missed that lesson at Customer Support 101?

I hope that SOMEONE finally gives us a clear fix to this issue. Or at least that they say us SOMETHING about the state of this particular issue instead of just getting silence every time someone mentions it.

Starscream
12-03-2017, 08:43 PM
I'd have to agree. It should be much easier to a) Run at stock CPU settings with no Memory OC, and b) run at stock CPU settings with XMP enabled for those that purchased RAM advertised to handle higher clock speeds. While I think we have found it is possible to achieve stock performance with reasonable voltages and thermal output, it took far more effort than it should have.

I suppose this board is meant for the enthusiast, but my main reason for purchasing this board was for RGB and integrated I/O panel. It just seemed like a wise choice with the thermaltake Core open case. I figured the enthusiast level of tweak-ability would just be an added benefit if chose to utilize it. I didnt think I would have to dive in to make it operate well under stock clocks.

Edit* I understand XMP does require some level of OC for the CPU, but I do question the fact that the overall TDP appears much higher than it should be in this scenario. I'm not an expert by any means..so if my expectations are off, feel free to let me know!

Silent Scone@ROG
12-03-2017, 08:46 PM
As I've said in previous posts, I've an i7 8700K (STRIX Z370-G Gaming wifi AC), which was at 1,344v at "stock" settings (MCE off, XMP on). With MCE "Enabled" it jumped back to 1,15-1,20v (also minus 15 C as an added bonus). Right now I have no idea of what's going on with my BIOS settings, or if I even have MCE activated or not (I supposedly don't have it activated, as I have Intel stock core clocks, but like I said, my BIOS says otherwise).

I'm getting REALLY tired of using my PC and thinking "Am I frying my CPU this time? Am I not? Ah, I've to check CPU-Z again, see how the voltages are", instead of just ENJOYING it. Do you understand that there are some customers that just want things to work RIGHT at stock settings, and that they don't like to waste their time (and probably their system's integrity) by "doing test themselves", or did you missed that lesson at Customer Support 101?

I hope that SOMEONE finally gives us a clear fix to this issue. Or at least that they say us SOMETHING about the state of this particular issue instead of just getting silence every time someone mentions it.

Well for starters, you're using XMP. Some CPU need the voltage. So in actual fact, after all that, you're not even at stock. To put your mind at rest, you're not frying the CPU. Also using CPU-Z to read voltages if terrified about overvolting the CPU, is fruitless too (if we're being pedantic).

brentsg
12-03-2017, 09:37 PM
I agree completely. It shouldn't take some monumental effort to get something running at stock. In my case I'll wind up overclocking it, but I'd like to run it stock to get a good baseline and while I setup my environment. Then I can overclock as I wish. Unfortunately Asus has somehow managed to make it much more difficult to do this than it should be.

Honestly after being disappointed by the last few Asus products I've purchased (and the complete lack of customer service and support on most of them) I said I wouldn't buy another. I'm kicking myself for caving when it was the only way I could obtain an 8700k for a reasonable price (bundle).

Praz
12-04-2017, 12:38 AM
Hello

As noted above XMP is not "stock" and some processors need one or more of the settings that XMP provides. If one does want full stock settings set MCE to disabled and leave all memory settings at default including not selecting XMP. A person really can't be complaining about the desire for a fully stock configuration and at the same time overclock the memory by enabling XMP.

Dovakhan
12-04-2017, 09:40 AM
First of all, I'd like to highlight that all the official reply I've received so far to this thread is an edit to my title, because apparently saying "ONCE AND FOR ALL" is 'too violent' for the mods here. And to top it, I'd REALLY want to know what "confusion" there is when the MCE settings give more stock values than when it is disabled. Can you EXPLAIN where the confusion comes from, dear ASUS mods? From the user, or from you?

I don't know, I could be wrong and be confused myself indeed. But for now the evidence is damn stacking against you. So what about GIVING CLEAR REPLIES ONCE AND FOR ALL? Because this is getting beyond ridiculous. And do you know what a mere edit to the title of a thread instead of ANY satisfying reply (or at least any update) does?


I'd have to agree. It should be much easier to a) Run at stock CPU settings with no Memory OC, and b) run at stock CPU settings with XMP enabled for those that purchased RAM advertised to handle higher clock speeds. While I think we have found it is possible to achieve stock performance with reasonable voltages and thermal output, it took far more effort than it should have.

I suppose this board is meant for the enthusiast, but my main reason for purchasing this board was for RGB and integrated I/O panel. It just seemed like a wise choice with the thermaltake Core open case. I figured the enthusiast level of tweak-ability would just be an added benefit if chose to utilize it. I didnt think I would have to dive in to make it operate well under stock clocks.

Edit* I understand XMP does require some level of OC for the CPU, but I do question the fact that the overall TDP appears much higher than it should be in this scenario. I'm not an expert by any means..so if my expectations are off, feel free to let me know!

Well, I DO hope that my current voltages are the right ones. I still don't know because I seemingly can't get an official reply anywhere regarding that.

This board is supposed to be for gamers, and I bought it because of that, because of the integrated sound chipset being isolated, because of full DDR4 4000 support on all 4 slots (had a bad experience with my previous motherboard because of declining RAM speeds when more slots were populated), and because it's supposed "high quality". It's not like you've bought a motherboard for a quantum CPU: you're not supposed to be a complete expert to enjoy it, something that the ASUS guys here have apparently forgotten.

And you could say that XMP is also "stock". After all, if it's an official feature of both the CPU, motherboard and the RAM modules, then it's supposed to just work, and stay whitin warranty.

As for the rest of my replies, both my 1,344 values and my current ones were taken with XMP on, meaning that that option still doesn't justify why I'm getting way lower voltages with MCE on. The SVID Behaviour option is ruled out as well (currently at Best), because I tried that option alone before activating MCE and it did absolutely nothing.


I agree completely. It shouldn't take some monumental effort to get something running at stock. In my case I'll wind up overclocking it, but I'd like to run it stock to get a good baseline and while I setup my environment. Then I can overclock as I wish. Unfortunately Asus has somehow managed to make it much more difficult to do this than it should be.

Honestly after being disappointed by the last few Asus products I've purchased (and the complete lack of customer service and support on most of them) I said I wouldn't buy another. I'm kicking myself for caving when it was the only way I could obtain an 8700k for a reasonable price (bundle).

+1. I also plan to OC my system, but eventually, when my system can't keep up anymore with the newest titles and when mostly I wouldn't care about it cos I'd be close to buying another PC anyway. And not now when my actual PC is brand new and I'm getting 60 fps on literally everything I run.

I was between the one I own and a MSI motherboard. I deeply regret not getting the MSI one now. ASUS may have been famed for their motherboards before, but seemingly their quality has descended into oblivion nowadays indeed.

Dovakhan
12-04-2017, 11:15 AM
Still waiting for official replies or updates.

Silent Scone@ROG
12-04-2017, 12:54 PM
And you could say that XMP is also "stock".


Nope, you can't, as it's not.




After all, if it's an official feature of both the CPU, motherboard and the RAM modules, then it's supposed to just work, and stay whitin warranty.


Nope, it's not :D.

Dovakhan
12-04-2017, 01:32 PM
Nope, you can't, as it's not.

Nope, it's not :D.

1) Kudos for your elaborate arguments.

2) Then, according to your definition of "stock", anything but the standart SPD 2133 speeds isn't "stock", right?

XMP is nothing but some extra SPD values in your RAM stick to reflect that that RAM stick is certified and tested to be capable of those speeds. It's not like OCing your RAM and changing it's timings yourself. Now THAT is "not stock".

If the RAM officially says that it's capable, if the CPU officially says that it's capable, and if the motherboard officially says it's capable, it doesn't get any more "stock" than that.

Also, I'm done seeing the mods doing everything but solving anything, or providing at least an update about this, or highlighting where I could be wrong. I'm gonna start raising awareness about this issue. To begin with, I'm gonna retract the recommendation of buying ASUS boards to 2 friends that are about to buy a new PC, then email some major hardware reviewers in order for them to check it themselves (+ Reddit). Let's see how many more customers you lose because you've decided to behave like 8 year-olds.

Silent Scone@ROG
12-04-2017, 01:43 PM
1) Kudos for your elaborate arguments.

2) Then, according to your definition of "stock", anything but the standart SPD 2133 speeds isn't "stock", right?

Also, I'm done seeing the mods doing everything but solving anything, or providing at least an update about this, or highlighting where I could be wrong. I'm gonna start raising awareness about this issue. To begin with, I'm gonna retract the recommendation of buying ASUS boards to 2 friends that are about to buy a new PC, then email some major hardware reviewers in order for them to check it themselves (+ Reddit). Let's see how many more customers you lose because you've decided to behave like 8 year-olds.


Sorry, I'm simply correcting you. Not sure that quantifies as behaving like an 8-year-old. If XMP is setting the memory frequency and timings beyond Intel spec, then it's overclocking. So no, it's not stock. My definition of stock is the opposite of overclocking, which is as it should be ;)

Dovakhan
12-04-2017, 01:48 PM
Sorry, I'm simply correcting you. Not sure that quantifies as behaving like an 8-year-old. If XMP is setting the memory frequency and timings beyond Intel spec, then it's overclocking. So no, it's not stock. My definition of stock is the opposite of overclocking, which is as it should be ;)

The 8 year-old quote wasn't for you.

And check my edited post. It isn't "beyond Intel spec" if Intel says that they officially support that feature. At the very least you could say that the 8700K supports up to 2666, but offers XMP as an official feature. Anyway, this is more a matter of semantics than anything else.

Also, like I said, it isn't the point of this thread neither affects the voltage of my CPU AFAIK, so please, I'd appreciate if we just drop the topic.

Raja@ASUS
12-04-2017, 01:59 PM
Thread closed as the members have already answered your question. This is an end-user to end-user forum. Official responses to every query are not promised or even possible.


Further threads or posts regarding this will be removed.