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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlleyViper View Post
    Those are terrible business practices, as they even don't list or even give what you're buying.
    As for which is better as a $56 upgrade? None, really, the Intel's DeepCool is $12 100W max rated trash. It doesn't make sense to spend $56 on a stock AMD Wraith Max cooler (up to 125W), similar in performance to the one that comes with a boxed 2700x (Wraith Prism).
    After IDing your current cooler just to be sure it's really underspec and holding you back, set a budget for a good cooler and buy it anywhere else. Many other users can give your their better recommendations, the same way I've given you a few posts back. Thermalright's ARO-M14G seems a good option if you must go cheap ($45), or something in the likes of a Noctua NH-U14S + NM-AM4-UxS (this AM4 retention is bought separately) if you can afford better (~$75). Both are >220W rated, and should give you peace of mind.

    I don't like to say "sustained at 70º is fine along with short bursts of 75-80ºC", specially if those short burst are light stuff like opening a program. Because those short bursts shouldn't be even heating up as much as a proper sustained full load. It just happens that your sustained loads might not be stressing your cpu as much as possible. So when that finally happens, temps might go real high. Thats why it's hard to give a blank check with that statement. After all these posts, I feel I haven't anything else to add on this matter. Just get proper cooling and be done with it, instead of capping your CPU further.
    Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated. Do you think I can go with one of these Aio maintenance free water cooling units without worrying about needing to replace the water or do anything additional with it at any point? I was wondering if I should go that route or if air cooling is better.

    And about the temps, if I hear you correctly, you're saying that to maximize longevity keep temps under 70 however with the caveat that is under a sustained full load. Because if casual usage gets to near 70C thats a big problem since a higher load, when it happens, will make the temps go through the roof and cause frequent shut downs. And while the cpu may not be damaged since it will shut down, there are other parts in the motherboard that can overheat even more that may shorten its longevity.

    Also when you said this:-

    either limit speed on your Power Profile, or in your bios completely disable Performance Boost

    I think I already have performance boost disabled since I changed the setting from auto to default or did you mean there is something else I can do in Bios besides that? And keeping memory at auto is fine or should I change that to default rated speed? As far as the power profile is concerned, did you mean changing the 100% setting to something like 70%? Once again thanks for your help! If I dont get water cooling I'll definitely get the best air cooling I can find, I spent $2200 on this computer I dont want to skimp on cooling. Portatech got $1800 and another $400 I spent after that on things like the UPS I bought, gaming keyboard and mouse, extra case fans, etc. That Raidmax case I have is that good for cooling or should I look into getting a different case also? And should I consider changing out the power supply also or is that fine for this set up and longevity?
    Last edited by Alex0915; 11-19-2018 at 04:51 AM.

  2. #502
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    Please understand that I won't be replying much of these build related questions further, as you should create your own thread because other users will get lost in here as this is a X470-F thread. IMO, and only IMO, your PSU, even if not the best for the price, 70A is more than enough for a 2700X w/ any single GPU monster (or a dual nv mid range), no problem there. Your case (assuming a VORTEX V3) is so,so for aircooling, but decent enough if all fans are fitted, but due to no extra space at the top and the MB being mounted with the I/0 extending from the back panel, fitting a large air cooler might be tricky, so measures must be made prior (as an example, making sure a ARO-M14G wouldn't hit the rear fan; cpu cooler pages will have detailed diagrams with measures). For an AIO liquid cooling, it's a dud. Has no fittings/fan holes for any larger radiator with 2 fans. Most AIOs with a thin 12x12cm radiator (as the one in your store) will be very limited, so a high end air cooler is preferable most times. Top end air cooler can usually even beat even entry 240x120 AIOs, so it all comes down to checking reviews before buying.

    About temps, that's it. Just add to it that going over 70ºC would only be expected for stress testing when cooling is in check. But again, that's just my opinion. Also keep in mind that the cooler a 2700X runs, the higher the clocks PB/XFR will set, so even with stock settings you get more of your CPU by running it cooler.

    Using PE enables PBO over PB, which extends the stock limits for the way speed/clocks/tpd are controlled by PB/XFR, which decides how much you go over 3.7GHz or even 4.3. I'm not near my board now, but to disable PB, which should limit your boost clock to 3.7 IIRC, you must go into advanced\AMD CBS settings.
    An easier option should be to retain PB (with PE/PBO disabled), and just limit your power profile under windows. Yes that's it, just lower the CPU max speed from 100% to anything of your liking. But any of these are just a band-aid to insufficient cooling.

    On memory, I believe I've already answered you before. You should at least set it to their rating, instead of auto. Ryzens benefit from memory speed not only because of increased bandwidth, but because it also sets the infinity fabric speed, reducing latency between CCXs, so it's common to buy 3000MHz at least. Using GPU-Z on the memory tab you'll see the current setting they are running (speed, primary timings; the other ryzen timing program will give you other missing details). On the SPD tab, if you select a populated DIMM slot you'll see on the table bellow their rated speed in the XFR table (which is primarily made for auto setting on Intel platform).
    When you leave your memory at auto, most times your board will only apply a setting from the lower SPD values, like 2133MHz, just to ensure boot/compatibility. So, to run you memory at its rated timings, either you set everything manually on your board, or use Asus own DOCP setting that is made to help you with that. By choosing it, it'll offer an option bellow where it'll set rated speed, memory voltage, primary timings, soc voltage. IF those sticks are the same Crucial Elite 2x8GB 2666 pictured, that would be 16-17-17-( some auto tRAS) on 1.2V at 2666 (or a closer speed if AM4 doesn't support that exactly). You can confirm then if the Memory tab will match the SPD's XMP tab.
    Last edited by AlleyViper; 11-20-2018 at 12:42 AM.

  3. #503
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    memory oc

    I just got 3533MHz stable on my Flare X 2x8GB b-die kit
    1.45V dram, 1.15V soc

    3600MHz is not gonna happen with those timings, I tried already with 1.5V but showed errors, probs have to loosen some timings not worth the hassle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Does anyone have a clue about the Aida64 benchmark? Only got the trial version, are those numbers accurate? I just know that the lowest possible latency is around 58ns for zen+
    Last edited by norman_87; 11-20-2018 at 09:53 AM.

  4. #504
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    The PSU is okay, I am just upset because I specifically selected the 850W model because it was listed as having over temperature and surge-inrush protection and this one has neither, although my new UPS makes up for the latter. The PSU has some nice reviews and in the Hardforum review it's stated that even though it's rated for only 40C it works well up to 50C. I just need to make sure I stay on top of the temps. My GPU is a Gigabyte Windforce (dual fans) GTX 1060 6 GB since it is the only 10 series GPU I could find that has two DVI slots for my two DVI monitors.

    I was originally going to go with the Thermaltake Core 31 case they offered which has 8 fan slots but found out from reviews that that case has a problem with dust, even with its magnetic air filters and as I live in a dusty environment thats a no go. The Raidmax case has 2 fan slots in the front for intake and one in the back and one on top which are for exhaust which I like because heat rises, and I like the 4 case fan configuration. I will keep it to air cooling and I noted in the specs that the case supports up to 160mm height coolers so I will get one of the air coolers you suggested next week. Meanwhile I did the power profile thing you suggested (I assume my PE is already disabled since it is set to default- thats what you mean by PE disabled I think?) and found rather interesting results. At 100% my cpu runs at 4.2 GHz, between 90-99% it runs at 3.2 GHz and under 90% it runs at 2.2 GHz- so the settings are very coarse. I put it at 99% and noticed an immediate drop in temps to 42C. I wish there were an intermediate setting, but for now the cpu is running at 3.2 GHz which is the same speed as a Ryzen 2700.

    I opened CPU-Z and went to the memory tab and found my memory is running at 2666 but the timings are loose they are 20-19-19-43-62-1T at 1.20v. Under SPD I found four JEDEC options for timings but faster timings cause slower clocks, the fastest I could find was JEDEC #10 at 19-19-19-43-61-1T at 2666 speed at 1.20v. And I thought it was Crucial memory, particularly since it came with a Crucial memory pamphlet, but according to CPU-Z it's actually Kingston memory. The quality is about the same isn't it?

    Thanks for all your help, I am going to pick out a better air cooler since that seems to be the one thing I really need to do.

  5. #505
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    Sorry I had no way to test it, as I'm away from my Ryzen. Setting 99% should then apply the next p-state bellow 3.7GHz, hence the huge drop in speed. You could try reverting to 100%, and just disable performance boost (Yes, PBO is already off with PE on Default). You should find it on Advanced\AMD CBS\"Core Performance Boost". It should set your CPU to max base 3.7GHz, by disabling PB/XFR.
    Regarding air coolers, please double-check size diagrams on their corresponding pages to ensure proper clearance in all directions (ex, the lower zone at the top of the side panel before it protrudes). Those things are huge.

    On memory It's not so much about "quality", it's just that those sticks on the picture should have had better timings for that speed and be quite more expensive (even if not the most appropriate choice for a Ryzen+ build). The only Kingston 2666 C19 rated sticks I see are their value series without heat spreaders, and that explains the lack of a tighter XMP profile. If you wish to correct that CL timing at 20, check if DOCP does it for you, else, just input 19 in the first setting of Ai Tweaker\Memory Control, DRAM CAS# Latency. Don't bother about the rest for now.

    @norman_87, good stuff! How are reported stick temps while stress testing them?
    Last edited by AlleyViper; 11-20-2018 at 09:37 AM. Reason: a few corrections

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlleyViper View Post
    @norman_87, good stuff! How are reported stick temps while stress testing them?
    Thanks, around 45-48C with some airflow over the sticks, up to 1.5V is safe for daily on b-die.

  7. #507
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    Issues installing latest audio driver Version 6.0.1.8496 2018/11/14

    Tried installing the latest audio driver for the motherboard, can't get any sound. Tried clean installs and everything. Any tried updating?

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
    Ahh, UEFI gimping . I saw this with X370 as well, that Crosshair had the most UEFI options and as you went down the tiers things disappeared.

    On OCN there is a thread where UEFI modding allows options to be gained, perhaps there is UEFI for X470-F Gaming, dunno.

    Can i brick my MB doing this ?

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlleyViper View Post
    Sorry I had no way to test it, as I'm away from my Ryzen. Setting 99% should then apply the next p-state bellow 3.7GHz, hence the huge drop in speed. You could try reverting to 100%, and just disable performance boost (Yes, PBO is already off with PE on Default). You should find it on Advanced\AMD CBS\"Core Performance Boost". It should set your CPU to max base 3.7GHz, by disabling PB/XFR.
    Regarding air coolers, please double-check size diagrams on their corresponding pages to ensure proper clearance in all directions (ex, the lower zone at the top of the side panel before it protrudes). Those things are huge.

    On memory It's not so much about "quality", it's just that those sticks on the picture should have had better timings for that speed and be quite more expensive (even if not the most appropriate choice for a Ryzen+ build). The only Kingston 2666 C19 rated sticks I see are their value series without heat spreaders, and that explains the lack of a tighter XMP profile. If you wish to correct that CL timing at 20, check if DOCP does it for you, else, just input 19 in the first setting of Ai Tweaker\Memory Control, DRAM CAS# Latency. Don't bother about the rest for now.

    @norman_87, good stuff! How are reported stick temps while stress testing them?

    Thanks for all your assistance. I called Portatech several times and spoke to several different techs and got a major run around from all of them. They all basically said that the parts they gave me are handpicked for compatibility and they all last a long time and they have the same parts in their own computers and they have been running for 20 years in Southern California heat lol.

    They said Kingston memory was more compatible for my build, they said they chose the power supply that fit most appropriately for my case, they could not tell me what brand the cooler was because they said they get different ones all the time, even when I told them it said Cooler Master on the fan they could not tell me the size of the fan - they told me to measure it myself! No idea on the cooler either, but what they did tell me is that their AMD coolers are larger and better than their Intel coolers, because Intel CPU run cooler. They mentioned the 9700K but also said that they aren't currently selling the 9900K because it isn't in stock anywhere in North America, though they were promised a new delivery by November 5, that obviously didn't happen. The expect it before the end of the year though. I almost laughed when they said Intel CPU run cooler and that's because AMD CPU are larger.

    About my overheating they said that none of these third party programs measure temps properly and I just have load issues and if my fans are too loud I should change their speeds lol and select a different fan profile. He also said dont worry about overheating the computer will shut off long before any damage to anything happens, it is designed to run hot lol.

    They said that what they choose for the power supply, memory, cpu cooler, fans, etc., last just as long as the parts I had wanted. In your experience is Kingston memory as durable? Same with the power supply, cpu cooler and fans? I've had issues with memory before (even Crucial memory) that I had to return and get an exchange- fortunately they had a lifetime warranty, not so sure about Kingston.

    Thanks for the info on fixing my speeds, that Advanced menu you're talking about, that's in BIOS? Same for changing the memory settings? I am about to head over into BIOS and do all that you suggested.

    BTW at 3.2GHz my temps are staying in the upper 40s, but I want this computer to perform better than a Ryzen 2700 non X lol. At 3.2 GHz that's what it would be comparable to right now? I wanted to ask you about core parking and all that, does editing the power profile still keep that disabled in windows balanced mode?

  10. #510
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    I won't comment on what the store told you, as you should have enough info to make your mind by now.
    No problem with Kingston as a brand. IIRC they offer lifetime warranty like other brands, even for the value series.

    Yes, the advanced menu on bios, that's where AMD CBS is at the bottom, and inside it you can disable Core Performance Boost (pic). For memory, under the Ai Tweaker tab, to select DOCP, that's under Ai Tuner mode, and then under it DOCP profiles should be listed for your ram (example). Just pick the closest to your default timings. Else, you can correct current settings manually in the memory timings subpage still under the ai tweaker tab.

    Don't bother with 3.2Ghz, that suggestion was a mistake on my part. Try simply without PB then, with 100% max speed on the W10 power profile. Don't mind about core parking, it's still enabled in the Balanced Profile, but it shouldn't be a problem like when the first Ryzen came out, and windows wasn't updated for it. Under decent cooling, those cores resting actually help PB to boost higher speeds to the rest. If you really want core parking disabled, then you can use the Ryzen Balanced power plan instead that forces it disabled, but take care to lower minimum cpu speed from 90% to 5%.
    Last edited by AlleyViper; 11-21-2018 at 12:47 AM.

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