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  1. #1
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
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    x299 i9-7900x slow responsivnes in windows explorer and other apps

    Hello and welcome,
    I do have issue with speed of Windows 10 explorer (and other apps also, but less noticeable) on x299 platform.
    I already posted (few months back) this question on MS tech forum but no one could give me solution for issue.

    Link to MS tech forum, much more info then in this post, I keep this one minimal, https://social.technet.microsoft.com...0itprohardware

    Issue:
    Windows explorer is slow when opening (and working afterwards) multiple instances, i.e. 10.
    Video presenting issue, with strange behaviour depending on CPU load:

    CPU at 0%
    https://player.vimeo.com/video/256998373

    CPU at 60%
    https://player.vimeo.com/video/256998460

    These videos presents Windows 1511 and 1703 and are recorded after fresh install on Samsung 850 Evo 256 GB SSD. Reason why I did this because my main system is Windows 1709 (Fall Creators Update) that's running on Samsung 860 Pro NVME drive exhibits exactly same behaviour. My other system (i7-4770 MSI GTX 970 on HDD) running same windows version works fine, very fast responsiveness.

    I wanted to test if my hard / ssd drives maybe cause this issue, so I did disconnected all of them and kept only one SSD during tests - no correlation. Any correlation that I seen is CPU utilization. This was also reproduced on my main system (Windows 1709 FCU) when running CPU-Z benchmark with 18 threads and invoking | opening by "WinKey+E" explorer response much faster then without CPU-Z. Also CPUZ score is higher when using 18 threads instead of, all by default so in this case, 20 threads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is also an issue with slow responsiveness of other application, Open / Save file dialogue is slow, general window painting is also slow, not painting itself but there is a delay that gives an effect of that slowness, i.e. opening notepad++ and I see white window for a fraction of second and then all widgets gets painted. This happens under 1 sec mark but it's annoying.

    Surprisingly other application like compilation on gcc / msvc / rendering with blender / cinebench etc. are performing within expected range / speed.

    Spec:
    CPU: i9-7900X (stock)
    Motherboards: Asus X299 Prime Deluxe BIOS: 1004 (1102 - is even slower overall, didn't tried newer BIOS then this one)
    Memory: 32GB G.Skill 14CL
    GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Ti
    Drives: Samsung 960 Pro 2TB NVME (OS), Samsung 850 Evo 256GB (used on video for clean Windows install), Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, bunch of other drives unconnected during test.

    What I tried on hardware level:
    - replace GTX 1080Ti with GTX970 - same behaviour
    - replace CPU with other i9-7900X with 1080Ti - same behaviour (my CPU went for deliding)
    - RAM with or without XMP profiles - same behaviour

    And here is kicker:
    Linux Debian - no issues whatsoever.

    Testing with OCCT causes error when testing using linpack or OCCT small data set (at random). When using linpack with 90% memory it passes 1h tests (same for both i9 CPU units). RAM testing is pending will do this probably today or tomorrow. Prime95 / compilation on both windows and linux / cinebench / aida64 practically any other stress test or demanding task passes without BSODS / crashes etc. and output (i.e. application) is correct.

    At this point I'm out of idea why this happens any suggestions are more then welcome.
    Regards

    PS: I also tried:
    - Windows power profile "High performance" / "Balanced" - same behaviour
    - CPU don't thermal throttle, hits in OCCT 92*C tops, same readings from hwinfo while running prime95

    PS2: Question / request for i9-7900X ASUS x299 Prime Deluxe (and other mobos) owners:
    Can You runs this batch file (select and save as *.bat and run) and share Your results, does it instantly pops up all these new windows (I want to be sure that this is not "platforms feature")

    set DPATH=%UserProfile%\Desktop

    FOR /L %%i IN (0,1,10) DO (
    call %SystemRoot%\explorer.exe %DPATH%
    )
    Last edited by Lu_GRU; 06-30-2018 at 07:29 PM.

  2. #2
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array chevell65 PC Specs
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    The following link has some fixes for this problem but I'm not sure which one applies in your case. https://www.tenforums.com/performanc...olution-2.html

    The solution on post #16 looks the best to me but you can decide for yourself.

  3. #3
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080Ti
    Storage #1NVME Samsung
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    OS Windows 10 Pro, Debian

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    Thanks for suggestion but I already tried dozen of them and non of them worked.

    Please also see videos, these ones are from fresh install of Windows 1511 and 1703 on 1 SSD in system, same issue, my main OS 1703 index disabled, cleared before disabling, same issue.

    Also CPUZ benchmark is affected and depending on CPU utilization (2 different physical units) score is different and explorer works faster @ 60% CPU utilization.

    PS. Opening one new window, when none is opened, shows it practically instantly, when opening up to 3-4 via selecting directories and "Open in new window" it's fast (as in video with 60% CPU utilization, fast but not instant) when selecting 7+ it's like in video.
    Other application - choosing Open or Save from within other apps is slow, update in i.e. notepad++ is fast but there seams to be some "flickering".
    It's hard to put it into word and easiest way to visualize it is with explorer example, that's why I explained it like this.
    Last edited by Lu_GRU; 06-30-2018 at 10:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Administrator Array Silent Scone@ASUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lu_GRU View Post
    Thanks for suggestion but I already tried dozen of them and non of them worked.

    Please also see videos, these ones are from fresh install of Windows 1511 and 1703 on 1 SSD in system, same issue, my main OS 1703 index disabled, cleared before disabling, same issue.

    Also CPUZ benchmark is affected and depending on CPU utilization (2 different physical units) score is different and explorer works faster @ 60% CPU utilization.

    PS. Opening one new window, when none is opened, shows it practically instantly, when opening up to 3-4 via selecting directories and "Open in new window" it's fast (as in video with 60% CPU utilization, fast but not instant) when selecting 7+ it's like in video.
    Other application - choosing Open or Save from within other apps is slow, update in i.e. notepad++ is fast but there seams to be some "flickering".
    It's hard to put it into word and easiest way to visualize it is with explorer example, that's why I explained it like this.
    You may want to try Latencymon and see if anything flags there. Also check that HPET is disabled.

  5. #5
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080Ti
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    I tried this today and some time ago, nothing out of ordinary. HPET is disabled, just out of curiosity did enabled it in Windows and things got even worse.
    Tried disabling HT / core to 4 | 6 | 8 count nothing helps.
    Again this was tried on 2 physical different CPU's (same mode of course).
    At this point I'm suspecting motherboard issue. Will ask via PM other i9-7900X owners here to take a look, maybe it's "normal behaviour" for this platform.

  6. #6
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080Ti
    Storage #1NVME Samsung
    CPU CoolerNH-D15
    OS Windows 10 Pro, Debian

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    Some more testing and power plan do have impact on responsiveness, but it's strange.
    When running batch (or selecting i.e. 10 directories and choosing "Open in new window") CPU spikes to 14% and then drop to 4% at this point first new window starts to open and afterwards another ones shows, delay between them showing up is around 500ms - 1sec so plenty time on CPU side.

    Balanced profile - cpu idles at 1.2GHz and spikes to 1.4GHz and then drops back to 1.2GHz - spike is due to console close.
    Performance profile - cpu idles at 1.6GHz and then spikes and keeps frequency at 4GHz.

    With Performance profile it's better but still worse then on i7-4770 (non K) with GTX970.
    I also don't know why on Balanced profile CPU don't boost well maybe that's what Balanced profile means... keep everything low.
    Testing Power Saver profile is disaster, so much lag that's unbearable.

    Long time ago (2-3 years) there was issue on Linux and Windows that caused mouse freeze when compiling using i.e. mingw on Windows and Linux. Linux resolved it by introducing new queue mechanism and now when I do compile of i7 or i9 there is absolutely no mouse lag / stutter. On Windows with i9 when compiling using msvc2017 mouse sometimes lags for second or two on Win 10 Pro 1703.

    At this point I'm suspecting that issue is with Windows kernel scheduler and issue is present at least from 1511 (probably even earlier).

    I will finish testing for now until my delidded CPU arrives and then will update BIOS to latest version and pray that this is resolved, maybe even will try latest windows version.

  7. #7
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080Ti
    Storage #1NVME Samsung
    CPU CoolerNH-D15
    OS Windows 10 Pro, Debian

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    Update:
    BIOS updated to latest version 1401 all issues described above persist.
    Contacted ASUS and they suggest to send mobo for check up.

    Why, oh why I didn't purchased ThreadRipper, this will be most likely my last Intel platform especially that Zen+ seams to catch up with Intel now.

  8. #8
    Banned Array JustinThyme PC Specs
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    Perhaps having task manager up to show what process are running?
    How fresh are the installs?
    Has the list of services running been optomized or is eerything at default?

    Most importantly can you explain to my old tired mind the need to flood the opening of 10 windows simultaneously?

    Run Realbench and post up what you get, this would flag any hardware issues.

  9. #9
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
    Processori9-7900X
    Memory (part number)32GB GSKIL CL14
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080Ti
    Storage #1NVME Samsung
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
    Perhaps having task manager up to show what process are running?
    It has nothing to do with running tasks in background, tested on my highly customized work OS that has everything disabled in auto run / task scheduler / services that is "not needed". Videos shows fresh installs to illustrate that this is not related to my settings that could cause this issue. Also these videos are from system that's running 1 SATA SSD no other drives so nvme etc. driver issues shouldn't be the case. And it happens also on 2 fresh installs 1511 and 1703. Also see videos, utilization at 60% resulted in faster response times, reason - at this time CPU had higher clocks. Can reproduce this by changing power profile to High Performance, lag is still there but is less noticeable. i7-4770 at 0-1% CPU utilization on HDD shows windows instantly, also probably on Your systems it's instantly, am I right?
    Used also "Process explorer" from SysInternals to see if there is something fishy boing on, it's clean.

    See also CPUZ issue - running 20 core results in worse score then 18 thread test. Why? There is something fishy going on either with drivers or windows scheduler and now with all these "auto update" You can imagine how easy it's to test this out, not to mention bloatware that is added to all this, especially NIC, drivers.

    Some time ago there was bug that cause COM / IPC (inter process communication) to lag tremendously (up to 1 min) when hyperlink was clicked in i.e. mail client Thunderbird when MS Edge was set as default web browser, changing it to Firefox (in my case) resolved issue.

    My work OS 1703 compiling with MSVC2017 project causes mouse lag for 1-2 sec, going into Debian and gcc - butter smooth. Some time ago it was caused by incorrect event queue on both systems, Linux apparently did sorted this out much better.

    My point here is that now Windows cater to gamers with it's "gaming mode" etc. and they do forget that people do work on these systems also and require reliability over performance or new features (like share option in menu to share pictures with FB / whatever because apparently nowadays it's to much hassle to open web browser and select file that needs to be uploaded so this code needs to be now part of OS ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
    How fresh are the installs?
    My work OS is couple moths old, tested on fresh installs also, same result.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
    Most importantly can you explain to my old tired mind the need to flood the opening of 10 windows simultaneously?
    For starters this system costs me over 3 grand and I expect it to behave like HEDT platform not like laptop with ultra power efficient CPU.

    This is just an example that illustrates my problem easiest. This happens also on CID dialogues (Common Interface Dialogues) like Open/Save|as in multiple/all applications and if I do post that program "xxxx" has problem with "File Open" then reply will be "contact creator", so it's easier to show it like this, because root of this issue is probably same.

    But to answer Your question:
    Initially I did noticed it around Jan 2018 when was working on arranging structure of converted video, videos were placed in sub folders and then I manually muved them one directory up and to my surprise response from Windows explorer was slow. Then later on when Spectre & Meltdown kicked in and I did updated BIOS to 1102 issue exaggerated and in i.e. Vegas when I hit "Open File" lag was noticeable 5-15seconds.

    FUN Tip:
    Want to crash Your Windows Explorer? Hit and press "Windows + E key", at around 30+ windows it will crash, tested on GTX1080Ti and GTX970.
    Tried to the same on Linux with Gnome - super fast response, OS don't die .

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
    Run Realbench and post up what you get, this would flag any hardware issues.
    Now I have back my original CPU with is now delided. This is not thermal issues, OCCT / prime95 / aida64 / Realbench all passes 1h+ runs, exception is OCCT that from time to time, not always, returns "Error occurred" - can't figure out reason for this one. Of course I will run again Realbench and post screenshots.

  10. #10
    ROG Enthusiast Array Lu_GRU PC Specs
    Lu_GRU PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS x299 Prime Deluxe
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    OS Windows 10 Pro, Debian

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    @JustinThyme

    As requested Realbench results:

    Code:
    Benchmark:
    
    Image Editing
    124239
    Time:40.953
    
    
    Encoding
    357868
    Time:26.792
    
    
    OpenCL
    113156
    KSamples/sec: 2963
    
    
    Heavy Multitasking
    231036
    Time:42.331
    
    
    System Score
    183943
    
    Stress test (15 min run):
    
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    Result Hash Match!
    It would help me to know hoe OS behave on Your side, does it lags also?

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