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  1. #1
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    What to do, I've got memory instability with XMP

    Hello!

    System is 8700k running on a z370 Hero AC wifi motherboard.
    GPU is: aorus 1080ti
    DDR4 is: g.skill F4-3600C15D-16GTZ
    Asus bios: I want to get it running with overclock and adaptive, but because of unstability it has been very difficult getting realbench and other stresstests to complete.

    This is my first post so greetings! I'm pretty new to overclocking so please note that there is quite a large "monkey in the lab" factor regarding my skills.

    Anyways, I have been struggling the last few days trying to get a stable overclock, but its been a frustrating experience which it took some time to make sense of. I believe my memory is at fault. I've run HCI memtest using several instances of the program. Running stock I get no errors in an hour. Running XMP gives me several errors within the first minute.

    Rated timings is: Cl15-15-15-35 1.35v and this is what I got in bios as well. Now, this is what I bought, should I expect it just to work and is this cause to return this memory-set? I was hoping I could get some advice how to tweak this so I don't have to return them, but I don't want to get stuck with bad memory even though I can make it work (bad if I ever decide to re-sell).

    So to sum it up:

    1. Should I return this set or try to adjust the timings?
    2. When testing memory, is there anything I should be paying special attention to? For example should I lower the cpu overclock?
    3. Where do I go from here?

    Ok, hope someone got some thoughts regarding my problems and please have a nice weekend!

    Petro

  2. #2
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    Just some additional info:

    I read somewhere that good values for Cpu VCCIO is 1.15v and system agent around 1.2v. When left to auto both are in the range of 1.33v. I guess I set them to 1.15 and 1.2v because I've read that to high would be bad. Can this be a cause of my memory instability and should I leave those to values to auto?

  3. #3
    Banned Array JustinThyme PC Specs
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    What are your other settings? for BCLCK
    BCLCK?
    Core multi?
    Cache Multi?
    Basically all changes you have made from stock?

    Will it run XMP with everything else at stock?
    Will it run default values?

    You should never expect it to just work and memory issues are seldom the memory if you get it to post. Pretty much every time the memory fails you wont be able to post and will have to start yanking sticks with everything at default values trying to see which one(s) are bad.

    Whats default on that board 2666? Anything over that is an overclock.
    Often you look to the CPU for the memory being held back.
    On my Z270/7700K build that chip would OC like crazy, just as long as you didnt set the Dram speed past 3400. 5.2 GHz, no problem XMP, not happening.
    Just remember memory control ultimately resides on the CPU.

  4. #4
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Carbonicdk PC Specs
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    If you look around this forum you'll see quite a few people with your board and similar Z370 boards from Asus having issues with getting G.SKILL memory kits to perform properly at their rated XMP speeds.
    In my thread https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...nd-AURA-issues I was suggested to lower subtimings. I've never had this kind of issues with what should be simple overclocking before so havn't tried yet as I'm quite unsure about what subtimings to fiddle with.

  5. #5
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    Hello again and thank you both for your posts!

    I hope I don't have to start messing with sub timings (its enough as it is already). I mostly just want to game, but feels stupid not getting those extra OC mhz if I can. I've tried to provide some more information and to single out the causes with two different bios setting. If there is something wrong about my logic concerning testing please let me know.

    Ok, so I did the following:

    First bios setting ment to check cpu overclock:

    Manual
    BCLK 100
    MCE disabled
    AVX neg offset 0
    sync all cores
    Core ratio 49
    Cpu svid disable
    Cpu core/cache current 255.50
    Min/max cpu cache 42
    Core voltage 1.31
    Long and short duration package power level 4095 on both
    LLC at 6

    DDR4 everything auto which means 2133 Mhz with timings 15 15 15 36. No changes done to memory settings in bios.

    Realbench completed 30 minutes: Got a bit toasty with an average around 82 degrees. I got a fractal design celsius s24 closed loop water cooler.

    Second bios setting as follows

    XMP
    Per core
    Cpu core ratio 42
    DDR4 at 3600 mhz as rated. Timings as set by XMP.

    Nothing change from the above except that Dram voltage is at 1.35 as rated. Everything else on auto.

    Detected instability in realbench after 17 minutes.

    Ok, so now. I might as well say something about my goals. I mainly play elite dangerous and driving sims in VR, also planetside 2. This is my main use. Both elite dangerous and planetside 2 has crashed to desktop when running my 8700k at 4.9 Ghz with DDR4 XMP enabled (I tried settings bios to adaptive containg this two overclocks). Games did not crash right away, but as far as I can tell after about 20 minutes or so and from what I can see on core temp software max temperature before start of game to crash has been around 50 degrees so it doesn't seem like the cpu were being pushed to hard.

    Now I don't know quite what to do going forward.

    Would it be best to keep my cpu overclock and then lower the ram overclock? Concerning ram I'm not hung up on it running at 3600 Mhz. From what I've read there is not that great a difference between 3600 Mhz vs 3200 Mhz. Still is loosening the timings better than lowering Mhz as far as stability is concerned? Do both?

  6. #6
    Banned Array JustinThyme PC Specs
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    I can only share my method. Take what you like and leave the rest.
    First and foremost, change only one thing at a time!
    Messing with CPU and RAM at the same time will send you chasing a ghost.
    I go for the max OC I can get on the core first leaving the cache and ram at default.
    Once I get that I back off 1 on the multiplier, maybe even two.
    Then I run up the cache. Run real bench. If it becomes unstable you can back off either the cache or the core. This is a find balancing act and the reason I back off the max core in the first place as at max core you will never get the cache clock up, this is directly related to your Sdram speeds.
    Save the Sdram for last. Its either going to do it or it isnt. Dont crank on speed and timings at the same time. You will chase your tail.
    Sometimes lower latency is better than a high clock rate. Bottom line is its about time to charge and its all in the math

    CL/Hz x 1000 = time to charge in milliseconds.

    15/3200 x 1000= 4.68
    17/3600 x 1000= 4.72 making the 3200 setting faster

  7. #7
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Carbonicdk PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
    I can only share my method. Take what you like and leave the rest.
    First and foremost, change only one thing at a time!
    Messing with CPU and RAM at the same time will send you chasing a ghost.
    I go for the max OC I can get on the core first leaving the cache and ram at default.
    Once I get that I back off 1 on the multiplier, maybe even two.
    Then I run up the cache. Run real bench. If it becomes unstable you can back off either the cache or the core. This is a find balancing act and the reason I back off the max core in the first place as at max core you will never get the cache clock up, this is directly related to your Sdram speeds.
    Save the Sdram for last. Its either going to do it or it isnt. Dont crank on speed and timings at the same time. You will chase your tail.
    Sometimes lower latency is better than a high clock rate. Bottom line is its about time to charge and its all in the math

    CL/Hz x 1000 = time to charge in milliseconds.

    15/3200 x 1000= 4.68
    17/3600 x 1000= 4.72 making the 3200 setting faster
    CAS Latency is not true latency and thus I don't believe your above math can be used to determine which is faster.
    Try reading: http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory...-speed-latency and see if you agree

  8. #8
    ROG Enthusiast Array vennacher PC Specs
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    Ditto only changing one thing at a time. Suggest the following:
    1-stress test your GPU
    2-MEMTEST your RAM at stock settings
    3-stress test your CPU overclock with the RAM at stock settings. Need to run something that stresses your CPU, RAM, and GPU at the same time. I like running IBT at custom with 95% of my RAM, and Furmark at the same time. I call 12 hours stable. Need to test both simultaneously. Watch your temps. If #1 and #2 pass but #3 fails increase your Vcore offset until stability is achieved. I needed +.01v of Vcore under load testing both vs no Furmark.
    2-once stable set your RAM to XMP. Make sure the Vdimm and Vccsa are set to the specified levels for XMP. And since your CPU is overclocked set the LLC for the Vccsa to high so it holds constant under load. On some boards there is a small delta between voltage settings and actual/reported levels, tweak the settings to ensure actual voltages match the XMP requirements. (on my board Vdimm adjusts automatically when I enable XMP but I have to manually enter the Vccsa)
    3-Retest your RAM with memtest. If all is good...
    4-Repeat the IBT + Furmark stress test.

    In my experience, if my GPU and RAM are good the root of the failure is Vcore. (I've never tried pushing the CPU so hard I needed to tweak with other internal to CPU voltages).
    MB : Rampage IV BE. - Bios 0801
    CPU : i7 3970x @ 4500 MHz, Offset +0.030v, Regular LLC, Fixed Frequency 750, C1E Enabled, C3/C6/C7 Disabled
    CPU VCCSA: Manual 1.150v, Regular LLC, Fixed Frequency 500
    RAM : Corsair Vengeance @ 1866 MHz - 64GB
    Disks : Raid0 2x Intel 520 480GB; 2x Seagate 2TB
    GFX : EVGA GTX690
    Audio : Creative X-FI Titanium HD
    PSU : Corsair AX1200i
    Optic BD\DVD : Lite-On Blu-Ray; Samsung DVDRW
    Cooler\Case : Corsair H100i v2 2; Silverstone TJ07
    OS : Win10 Pro 64

  9. #9
    ROG Enthusiast Array vennacher PC Specs
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    Ditto only changing one thing at a time. Suggest the following:
    1-stress test your GPU
    2-MEMTEST your RAM at stock settings
    3-stress test your CPU overclock with the RAM at stock settings. Need to run something that stresses your CPU, RAM, and GPU at the same time. I like running IBT at custom with 95% of my RAM, and Furmark at the same time. I call 12 hours stable. Need to test both simultaneously. Watch your temps. If #1 and #2 pass but #3 fails increase your Vcore offset until stability is achieved. I needed +.01v of Vcore under load testing both vs no Furmark.
    2-once stable set your RAM to XMP. Make sure the Vdimm and Vccsa are set to the specified levels for XMP. And since your CPU is overclocked set the LLC for the Vccsa to high so it holds constant under load. On some boards there is a small delta between voltage settings and actual/reported levels, tweak the settings to ensure actual voltages match the XMP requirements. (on my board Vdimm adjusts automatically when I enable XMP but I have to manually enter the Vccsa)
    3-Retest your RAM with memtest. If all is good...
    4-Repeat the IBT + Furmark stress test.

    In my experience, if my GPU and RAM are good the root of the failure is Vcore. (I've never tried pushing the CPU so hard I needed to tweak with other internal to CPU voltages).
    MB : Rampage IV BE. - Bios 0801
    CPU : i7 3970x @ 4500 MHz, Offset +0.030v, Regular LLC, Fixed Frequency 750, C1E Enabled, C3/C6/C7 Disabled
    CPU VCCSA: Manual 1.150v, Regular LLC, Fixed Frequency 500
    RAM : Corsair Vengeance @ 1866 MHz - 64GB
    Disks : Raid0 2x Intel 520 480GB; 2x Seagate 2TB
    GFX : EVGA GTX690
    Audio : Creative X-FI Titanium HD
    PSU : Corsair AX1200i
    Optic BD\DVD : Lite-On Blu-Ray; Samsung DVDRW
    Cooler\Case : Corsair H100i v2 2; Silverstone TJ07
    OS : Win10 Pro 64

  10. #10
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    Hello all,

    Thank you again for your help. I've been testing my ram with HCI memtest and at xmp 3600Mhz my memory fails all the time. At 3400 Mhz it seems solid, but I should probably test it for longer than I have to be more sure. Thank you for your detailed descrition on how to perform an overclock. There has been alot of chaising tails up until I made this post so this made me get a better handle on the whole process. More testing to be done, but getting my memory stabilized makes the whole process a bit more predictable.

    Thank you again,

    Petro

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