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  1. #1
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
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    Previously validated overclock no longer stable

    Hi everyone

    I currently find myself slowly losing my sanity (lol) trying to figure out what the heck is going on with my system.

    Around a month or so ago I overclocked my 8700k successfully to 5Ghz with an adaptive voltage of 1.350V (in BIOS) and LLC5. My cache ratio topped out at 46. I ran AIDA64 FPU stress test for an hour, Realbench stress test for an hour and prime95 26.6 for an hour to make sure it was stable. I had no issues for a while. Then a new BIOS came out for the Maximus X Code (1602), so I updated from the previous BIOS and ran Realbench for 30mins and AIDA64 for 30mins just to make sure there weren't any obvious stability issues with this BIOS version. No problems.

    Last week there was a huge sale on PC parts on eBay and I found a great deal on another 16GB of the same RAM I already had (Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz C16) so I bought that. Before anyone mentions it, yes I know now that you aren't supposed to combine RAM kits even if they are identical. I found the article written by Raja about that just the other day. Despite this it seemed that I got lucky. I seemingly had all 32GB RAM running in XMP 3200mhz without any issues. I ran HCI memtest pro for over 12 hours overnight and got 0 errors. I ran memtest86 overnight and got no errors. I ran the system memory stress test in AIDA64 twice 20 mins each without any issues. I ran 30 mins of Realbench with 32GB ram selected and passed with flying colours. All sounds good right?

    Now the part where I am stumped. Today one of my programs locked up and when I clicked restart my system blue screened. This was the report from WhoCrashed afterward:



    Googling those results brought up some threads suggesting display driver issues and to use DDU and reinstall the latest driver. I did that and even rolled back the application that locked up (Corsair iCUE) to the previous release just incase it was at fault. I then decided to re-check system stability by running AIDA64 FPU test again. 25mins in BSOD. WTF. I backed off the cache ratio to 45 and repeated, immediate BSOD. I then backed off the cache ratio to 44. BSOD after 20 mins. 43, BSOD after 25mins. I thought to myself "ok, maybe the RAM is causing this" and removed the two sticks of RAM I recently added and restored my overclock settings to where they were originally. another BSOD after 35mins of AIDA.

    Now I am really unsure of what's going on, or how I am to determine exactly what is the cause. I thought if there was a problem with the RAM kits, it would definitely show after lots of testing in HCI memtest pro and memtest86. And now my overclock is no longer stable whether I have one kit or two kits installed.

    Is it safe to say that my RAM kits are okay? I could sell this 16GB kit since I got a good deal on it and fork out for a matched 32GB kit but I don't want to do that without being sure that the RAM is a problem. I have my doubts now that I am failing AIDA64 with the original 16GB in there.

    If anyone has advice to help me solve this it would be greatly appreciated!!

  2. #2
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
    Headset Astro A50 (Gen 2)
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    I've just tried my previous settings with cache ratio down to 45 and failed again. BSOD within a minute of test starting. This is really really bizarre..

  3. #3
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
    Headset Astro A50 (Gen 2)
    Mouse Pad ASUS ROG Scabbard
    Headset/Speakers JBL LSR305 Mk II
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    Cache ratio 44 failed as well after 15mins or so. 43 passed an hour this time. It's very strange considering it was doing 46 with the same settings before. I also don't know how the RAM could affect it when all the memory testing is passing flawlessly. Is it worth reverting the CPU to defaults and sticking the additional memory kit back in and trying another test? I'll post BIOS screenshots so you can see my current settings.

  4. #4
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
    Headset Astro A50 (Gen 2)
    Mouse Pad ASUS ROG Scabbard
    Headset/Speakers JBL LSR305 Mk II
    OS Windows 10 Pro 64bit
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  5. #5
    Moderator Array Nate152 PC Specs
    Nate152 PC Specs
    MotherboardROG Maximus IX Code
    Processori7-7700k 5.2GHz Delidded
    Memory (part number)16GB G.Skill Trident Z 3883MHz 16-17- 17-37-2T
    Graphics Card #1Titan Xp - EKFC waterblock
    Graphics Card #2Titan Xp
    Sound CardROG SupremeFX 2015
    MonitorHP ZR30w
    Storage #1Toshiba VX500 256GB
    CPU CoolerSwiftech Apogee GTZ
    CaseThermaltake Armor+ VH6000
    Power SupplyPCP&C Turbo Cool 1200w
    Keyboard Cyberpower Skorpion K2
    Mouse ROG Chakram Core
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    Hi Zammin

    You could reset to defaults and set the ai overclock tuner to manual and overclock just the cpu cores, this will rule out the ram/cpu cache causing any instability.

    If 5.0GHz is stable with 1.35v, then find the max cache ratio.

    Then try setting the ram manually instead of using X.M.P.

    Or bumping LLC to level 6 may get you stable, check maximum Vcore if you try this.

  6. #6
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
    Headset Astro A50 (Gen 2)
    Mouse Pad ASUS ROG Scabbard
    Headset/Speakers JBL LSR305 Mk II
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate152 View Post
    Hi Zammin

    You could reset to defaults and set the ai overclock tuner to manual and overclock just the cpu cores, this will rule out the ram/cpu cache causing any instability.

    If 5.0GHz is stable with 1.35v, then find the max cache ratio.

    Then try setting the ram manually instead of using X.M.P.

    Or bumping LLC to level 6 may get you stable, check maximum Vcore if you try this.
    Hey Nate

    Thanks for once again providing me with advice

    I think I'll try resetting to defaults and just running XMP, then run the test and see if it crashes. If it doesn't, I'll reset once again and overclock just the CPU cores as you recommended and then try the test again.

    It seems to be happy at 5Ghz with just the two original sticks of ram and the cache reduced to 43, although this is still puzzling because it was previously stable in this exact configuration with the cache at 46. I believe the default cache ratio is 44, so this is one step lower than default, not that it has hurt performance in any noticeable way.

    Regarding setting the RAM manually, I know how to dial in the frequency, DRAM voltage and primary timings (16 18 18 38) but are there any secondary or sub timings that need to be changed? or does XMP only change the above three areas? (frequency, voltage, primary timings)

    Thanks!

  7. #7
    Moderator Array Nate152 PC Specs
    Nate152 PC Specs
    MotherboardROG Maximus IX Code
    Processori7-7700k 5.2GHz Delidded
    Memory (part number)16GB G.Skill Trident Z 3883MHz 16-17- 17-37-2T
    Graphics Card #1Titan Xp - EKFC waterblock
    Graphics Card #2Titan Xp
    Sound CardROG SupremeFX 2015
    MonitorHP ZR30w
    Storage #1Toshiba VX500 256GB
    CPU CoolerSwiftech Apogee GTZ
    CaseThermaltake Armor+ VH6000
    Power SupplyPCP&C Turbo Cool 1200w
    Keyboard Cyberpower Skorpion K2
    Mouse ROG Chakram Core
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    No, don't fool with secondary timings, do like you said and set it manually.

    Reset to defaults (F5)
    Set the AI Overclock Tuner to Manual

    Dram Frequency - 3200MHz
    Dram Voltage - 1.35v
    CPU VCCIO voltage - 1.15v
    CPU System Agent voltage - 1.15v

    Dram Timing Control, enter the Primary Timings -

    16
    18
    38
    Command Rate 1N

    F10 and Enter to save and exit.

    If it's stable, move on to overclocking the cpu.

  8. #8
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Zammin PC Specs
    Zammin PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
    ProcessorIntel 9900K (Conductonaut Applied)
    Memory (part number)G Skill 3200Mhz Trident Z RGB 32GB 3200Mhz CL16
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080Ti FE
    MonitorAcer Predator XB271HU 165Hz
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Storage #2Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerEKWB Velocity RGB
    CaseLian Li PC-011 Dynamic
    Power SupplyCorsair RM1000i
    Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum RGB
    Mouse Steel Series Rival 600
    Headset Astro A50 (Gen 2)
    Mouse Pad ASUS ROG Scabbard
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    Alright I've had some time to play around with this some more. I've carried out the following:

    - Another AIDA64 FPU stress test with the same settings as the last one (5Ghz@1.350V LLC5 Cache x43 and just the original 16GB RAM in XMP) only this time it gave me a BSOD after 35 mins despite passing an hour without issues last time. No idea why this seems to happen. Perhaps I'm on the bleeding edge of stability or something..

    - Stuck the other two RAM modules back in (2x16GB kits total), reset to defaults and ran an hour of AIDA64 FPU stress test. Pass.

    - Manually dialed in the RAM settings instead of using XMP. 3200Mhz 1.35V 16-18-18-38 2N (I know you mentioned 1N but these kits are tested at 2N so I thought that was the right thing to do) and VCCIO and System Agent at 1.15V. Although the actual VCCIO and System Agent voltage read by the BIOS and AIDA64 is around 1.17V for some reason. Ran an hour of AIDA64 FPU stress test. Pass. No issues with the RAM then it would seem. Lucky.

    - Dialed in my CPU overclock same as before. 5Ghz with an adaptive Vcore of 1.350V in BIOS, LLC5 and left the cache on auto this time (which gives me x44). Ran AIDA64 FPU stress test - BSOD again. Must be an issue with the CPU overclock.

    - Bumped up the max CPU voltage in the BIOS to 1.365V. Under full load software reads 1.34V. I considered bumping the LLC to level 6 instead but I'm a little nervous to use anything higher than 5 as I understand there can be overshoot that you don't see in software, and I don't have an oscilloscope or any of the right tools to measure that sort of thing, So I figured just adding a little extra Vcore would be a safer option. This seems to have worked (for now at least) as it passed an hour in AIDA64 and an hour in Realbench with 32GB ram selected.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	5Ghz 1.365VBIOS LLC5 CPUCC140% Manual RAM 3200Mhz 1 Hour FPU Stress Test.png 
Views:	0 
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    Hopefully it stays stable this time. I can only imagine the reason for being stable previously and unstable now is either a fluke or something about this newer BIOS version is requiring slightly more voltage to be stable. It's hard to be sure.

    Thanks again for your help Nate.
    Last edited by Zammin; 08-04-2018 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #9
    ROG Guru: Gold Belt Array Menthol PC Specs
    Menthol PC Specs
    MotherboardM 10 Apex / XI gene
    Processor8700K / 9900K
    Memory (part number)2x8 Gskill Trident Z 4266/2x2x8 Gskill Trident Z 4500
    Graphics Card #1RTX 2080ti / GTX 1060
    Sound CardSoundBlaster Ae5 / Onboard
    MonitorBENQ 32" 4K
    Storage #1Intel 900p 480GB/Samsung 960 Pro 1TB
    Storage #2Intel 750 1.2TB/Plextor 1 TB 2X 950 Pro
    CPU CoolerCorsair H150i AIO / H1110i
    CaseCorsair 740 ? Lian Li Air
    Power SupplyCorsair AX 1200i / AX 1200i
    Keyboard Corsair
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    Headset HyperX Cloud Alpha
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    I tried 1602 on my X Apex and couldn't run my RAM at the same timings as 1503 and earlier bios's so I flashed back to 1503

  10. #10
    Moderator Array Nate152 PC Specs
    Nate152 PC Specs
    MotherboardROG Maximus IX Code
    Processori7-7700k 5.2GHz Delidded
    Memory (part number)16GB G.Skill Trident Z 3883MHz 16-17- 17-37-2T
    Graphics Card #1Titan Xp - EKFC waterblock
    Graphics Card #2Titan Xp
    Sound CardROG SupremeFX 2015
    MonitorHP ZR30w
    Storage #1Toshiba VX500 256GB
    CPU CoolerSwiftech Apogee GTZ
    CaseThermaltake Armor+ VH6000
    Power SupplyPCP&C Turbo Cool 1200w
    Keyboard Cyberpower Skorpion K2
    Mouse ROG Chakram Core
    Headset Sennheiser HD6XX / Modmic 5
    Mouse Pad Steelseries QCK Prism XL
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    Hey Menthol !

    You run the ultra fast 4266MHz, that's a feat in itself hitting that.

    What do you think of Zammin's overclock? It looks good, he's stable but I'm seeing Vdroop in the Vcore. He set 1.365v and is getting 1.340v, bumping LLC to level 6 should get it closer to the 1.350v he originally set.

    I use LLC level 6, I set 1.440v and it occasionally jumps to 1.456v.

    I think I'd try:

    CPU Core/Cache voltage - 1.35v
    LLC Level 6

    CPU Power management:

    IA AC Load Line .01
    IA DC Load Line .01

    This should put the Vcore at 1.35v with an occasional overshoot to 1.366v, .016v might look like alot but it's the smallest increments it jumps.

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