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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Vlada011 PC Specs
    Vlada011 PC Specs
    MotherboardRampage V E10 (BIOS 1903)
    ProcessorIntel®i7-5820K (4.5GHz 1.325V)
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4A2666C15
    Graphics Card #1ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon
    Sound CardSound Blaster ZxR
    MonitorSamsung P2450H
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 1TB
    Storage #2Samsung 850 EVO 1TB/WD Black 2TB
    CPU CoolerEK RGB Monoblock RVE10
    CaseLian Li PC-O11 WXC
    Power SupplyEVGA 1200 P2
    Keyboard Deck 87 Francium PRO - MX Brown DS PBT
    Mouse Logitech G900
    Mouse Pad Steeseries QCK
    Headset/Speakers CREATIVE T5900 5.1
    OS Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903
    Accessory #1 iPhone SE Space Grey
    Accessory #2 EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass PWM + CoolstreamPE 360
    Accessory #3 Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3 (radiator)
    Vlada011's Avatar
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    Jesus, is it i7-6950X alive. My favorite Intel CPU. I feel your pain more than anyone because I live in country where economic situation is disaster and building my computer in my country need more effort than building ASUS ROG Dominus with Intel Xeon W-3175X in United States.
    Because of that and I love my computer as someone in USA like ASUS ROG Dominus build with 28 core Xeon for OC.

    Living in country where monthly payment is 2000$ for me mean saving 500-600$ every month and building ROG Dominus Extreme with Intel Xeon.
    I would not even look Z chipset. Every 3 year new special build. NVIDIA TITAN V, etc...


    If motherboard only is dead maybe you could find working for 300-350$ on Ebay.
    I know Rampage V Extreme could be find below 200$. I had both and both motherboards are great, same quality and performance only RVE10 have some newer features.
    Most important for me are USB 3.1 and U.2 could serve in feature. .

    How you paid 1000$ for RVE10 when I paid 400 euro with EK RGB Monoblock. Send by ASUS for Sponsored project and later sold to me.
    That mean she is tested two times by ASUS and buy guy who made project (better than new hahahaa)

    I would never buy RGB Fan in my life. RGB only if no other choice, motherboard, GPU, etc...
    RGB destroy image of PC. Once in life I saw smoke from fan but nothing happen to motherboard and other stuff.
    That was old blue LED fan before 10 years. Computer shut down and I saw smoke below label on fan motor. Normal fan, work before that months. Who knows what happen to him.

    People invest in fans without real need, just like that to put more and more fans.
    Last edited by Vlada011; 04-01-2019 at 06:11 AM.


  2. #12
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Vlada011 PC Specs
    Vlada011 PC Specs
    MotherboardRampage V E10 (BIOS 1903)
    ProcessorIntel®i7-5820K (4.5GHz 1.325V)
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4A2666C15
    Graphics Card #1ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon
    Sound CardSound Blaster ZxR
    MonitorSamsung P2450H
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 1TB
    Storage #2Samsung 850 EVO 1TB/WD Black 2TB
    CPU CoolerEK RGB Monoblock RVE10
    CaseLian Li PC-O11 WXC
    Power SupplyEVGA 1200 P2
    Keyboard Deck 87 Francium PRO - MX Brown DS PBT
    Mouse Logitech G900
    Mouse Pad Steeseries QCK
    Headset/Speakers CREATIVE T5900 5.1
    OS Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903
    Accessory #1 iPhone SE Space Grey
    Accessory #2 EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass PWM + CoolstreamPE 360
    Accessory #3 Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3 (radiator)
    Vlada011's Avatar
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    You success to increase my hate against all kind of RGB Fans.

    If you enjoy RGB show is to separate RGB Strips and RGB Fans from system.
    Kit will drain power from 5V Molex or SATA Connector and that's it. RGB fans on expensive motherboards is bad idea, or RGB LED Stips from Aliexpress.
    You see that Thermaltake Hub hold 3 RGB Fans and drain power from one motherboard 4 pin header.

    If you check on CORSAIR site and they make good and famous RGB fans you will see that their Hub have SATA Power connector.
    Their 2 and 3 Fans Packs are much more reliable and higher quality fans and safer option because drain power from PSU directly.

    Much better/safer RGB Fans kits.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Or fans with Commander Pro + Fan Hub. That's total 12 fans.
    Commander Pro and Fan Hub should be connected on FREE SATA Power cable without HDD or SSD.
    Than all fans get power from one SATA Power cable.

    if motherboard no visual damage, burned parts you could RMA.
    You can't say 100% that fans killed her.
    Last edited by Vlada011; 04-01-2019 at 07:45 AM.


  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlada011 View Post
    -snip-
    I agree with everything you said my man! If i only knew it beforehand... Sure i've learned from this mistake but boi what an expensive mistake. If it turns out this is salvageable, i will use the fans i got but without rgb (just give 'em power through PSU and cut all connections to mobo), just cooling. And later when i stabilize myself financially as this build was super expensive, will look for those commander pro and corsair fans. (their rgb is controllable even when they're not connected to board in any way just sata or molex powered from psu?) I happen to really like rgb, i got a mice, keyboard and headset in sync so wanted my new system to do the same. I cannot RMA unfortunately. Its a complicated situation. As i said before, country is a bit weird economically and warranties don't work same as other places. While the board was shiny brand new, i only got 3months warranty (which is laughable to many people) that only covers manufacturer defect. And sense the board was perfectly funcional prior to the fans fiasco, i'm legally responsible for its demise.

    The board was extraordinarily expensive, yes, its the economic situation of the country. high-end parts don't sell well here. Huge majority are budget oriented so those parts are sold like hotcakes, the rest? maybe a few during sale, otherwise, very rarely.

    It also seems thermaltake's costumer support is horrible. They don't respond at all. Their products are beautiful but looks like don't care one bit about their costumers... Currently i'm trying to find time to take the PC somewhere to test (i don't have spare parts for that) Either PSU or Mobo are dead. Just need to find out which then i can think
    Last edited by OGSnow; 04-01-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  4. #14
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array JackNaylorPE's Avatar
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    One of the problems associated with on-line advice is that you have no idea as to the knowledge and experience of the respondent. Many just plug a few key words into a google search and copy paste the response. After you have addressed the dead system issue, here's a bit about how we approach fan selection and control.

    As to the fans .... Asus FanXpert is an excellent tool for controlling fans ... but like any capable tool, you can hurt yourself. A good way to start is with a quality product manufacturer and one which has excellent tech support. As great as the Asus BIOS and utilities are, tech support shows no signs of life. If you get a response, it's usually non-responsive to the question asked. So 1st thing to consider is a) what products offer the best performance and b) which products offer responsive support.

    1. Product Selection - I have spent a considerable amount of time investigating fan performance, determining fan needs and product selection. I created a spreadsheet based tool for radiator sizing that determines required radiator size for fan speeds from 1,000 to 2,200 rpm based upon testing done @ martinsliquidlab. Noctua is often given as the "best fan" choice and while they have excellent product selections, they don't prove out as top dog. If you take the Noctua fan off a Noctua cooler, and replace it with a Phanteks PH-F140SP, CPU temps drop by 6C at same rpm

    https://www.overclockersclub.com/rev...eks_f140/3.htm

    Another go to source is listed below, see the table midway down that page ... their testing had those as the Top 5 for combination of low noise and performance:

    Phanteks PH-F140HP/TS
    Noctua NF-A14 FLX
    Noctua NF-A15 PWM
    Noiseblocker B12-2
    Noctua NF-P14 FLX

    http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html

    That review is a bit old and the other fan I would consider equal to the Phanteks F140SP is the Silent Wings 3.

    2. Quantity - How many you need depends on your goals. I recommend one 120mm fan @ 1250 rpm for every 50-75 watts of component power at respective OCs (every 75 - 100 for 140mm @ 1250 rpm). Add 25 watts to those ranges for each 300 rpm increase. So add up MoBo and GFX cards and anything else that produces a significant amount of heat ( say CPU = 130 watts OC'd, GPU = 250 watts OC'd, Mobo = 40 watts, water pump = 20 watts) 440 watts in this case ... here I'd use at least 5-6 case fans. My total load is up near 800 watts ... I have 16 fans ... 10 in push pull on radiators, and 6 case fans ... I took half of them out 3 months ago while cleaning and haven'y put them back in. Temps are up only slightly, they really only are required for stress testing.

    3. Load - I just don't "get" the RGB thing. I have been using LED lighting building my own LED systems . I prefer single color lighting to highlight the build. I find all the flashie lightie, multi-color , breathing, alternating displays take the focus of the build quality and divert it to the light show. But that's an aesthetic choice for each individual. Your typical Fan header on Motherboards is rated for 1 amp. , some enthusiast boards may have 2 amp headers. The PH-F140Sps IIRC are 0.14 amps. Now when a fan (or any other motor starts up, there is something called inrush current. I can find no data on this subject for fans so I derate the allowable amperage based upon fan's speed.

    1200 rpm = 0.84 allowable header load in amps
    1500 rpm = 0.75
    1800 rpm = 0.67
    2100 rpm = 0.58
    2400 rpm = 0.50

    I'm sure it's overly conservative and I'm sure the headers have some ability to handle this inrush taken into account, but as it doesn't really impact quiet builds, I have continued to use it. So I limit the 1200 rpm fans to 6 per header or about 0.84 amps.

    4. Control - Next choice is how to control the fans: Choices are:

    PWM - Long known for much better low speed control and having better ability to start at low speeds since voltage is always 12 volts. Downsides were low speed hum or clicking, gotten much rarer in recent years, and cost. On some brands, (i.e. Corsair), also susceptible to loss of speed control as you add more fans to a single channel (stay <5-6).

    DCV - In times past was limited at low speeds as when control wanted say 350 rpm, it could slow down to that speed, but didn't have enough oomph to start at the lower voltage. Modern designs and MoBo control utilities have pretty much overcome this limitation.

    PWM / DCV - This is a "best of both" worlds approach, works on both PWM and DVC MoBo Headers. Only limitation is when using a DCV header (getting rare these days) , you can not use an auxilliary power cable as the 12v power supply will override the variable voltage coming from MoBo header. So when using this , do NOT connect the power cable and limit the # of fans so as to stay below header rating.

    5. Sample Control Scenario - This is how we have set up our test box:

    Channel 0 = CPU and CPU_OP MoBo Headers => Dual water pump (Swiftech 35x2)
    Channel 1 = CHA_1 Header (0.84 Amps) => Phanteks Hub => (6) PH-SP140SP 1200 rm fans on 420mm radiator (now just 3 fans in push)
    Channel 2 = CHA_2 Header (0.56 amps) => Phanteks Hub => (4) PH-SP140SP 1200 rm fans on 280mm radiator (now just 2 fans in push)
    Channel 3 = CHA_3 Header => Phanteks Hub => (6) PH-SP140SP 1200 rm Case fansr (now just 3 fans, 2 in 1 / out)

    - In stress testing, fan speeds top out at about 750 - 800 rpm (CPU core temps 69 - 78C, GPU @ 42C), in gaming 550 - 650 rpm (CPU core temps 53 - 64C, GPU @ 39C)
    - All fans ramp up and ramp down to eliminate the control system chasing it's tail so to speak by eliminating fast response to temp changes so cutting fan speeds does not immediately result in temp increase and speeding up again. Rad fans ramp up over 30 seconds ... ramp down over 90 seconds to remove latent heat from thermal mass of coolant.
    - Case fans are ramped 30 seconds up and down.

    I would have tried to address your dead system issue but without a component list and what troubleshooting steps you have taken so far, not enough info to attempt.

    Unfortunately, Asus Tech Support (email or phone) is less than non existent. Id almost rather no response than a response that answers a question different from what was asked. All of the systems we have here, those that have Asus MoBos, are eligible for "premium support" which allows for them shipping a replacement MoBo to you, and only then do you mail the old one back. Last time I did this, the replacement was warped like a banana and physically would not fit inside the case as the I/O panel missed the case opening by an inch. It took 3 months to get a working replacement and all email exchanges were thru Pegatron (AsRock's parent company).

    Your best shot at assistance are enthusiast forums where knowledgeable users are present.

    Note that Phanteks enthusiast cases have built in RGP controllers ... they also allow you to completely separate the fan speed from RGB and you can buy the RGB part separately.

    http://phanteks.com/DRGB.html
    http://phanteks.com/RGB.html
    http://phanteks.com/PH-PWHUB_02.html
    http://phanteks.com/PH-PWHUB.html
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 04-02-2019 at 07:28 PM.
    October 26 Build
    MoBo:Max VI Formula
    RAM:16GB Mushkin DDR3-2400 10-12-12-28
    GFX:2x Asus GTX780 DCII
    HD: 2x Seagate 2TB Hybrid SSHD
    SSD:2x Samsung 840 Pro 256GB
    PSU:Seasonic X-1250
    Case:Phanteks Enthoo Primo
    OS:Win 7 Pro-64
    Monitor:Asus VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz
    Optical:Asus BR Burner
    KB: Logitech G19s
    Mouse:RoG GX950
    Fan Con.: Six Eyes
    Cooling:420+280 Alphacool Rads, 35x2 Pump, EK CPU/ GPU Blocks, Acrylic Tubes w/ BP Fit

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    !snip#
    Thank you for the detailed reply! Much appreciated.

    Here's a list of the components used in the build:

    Case = Thermaltake View 37 RGB Edition
    PSU = Corsair RMi 850w
    Mobo = Rampage V Edition 10
    Ram = 64GB Corsair Quad Kit
    CPU = i7 6950X w/ D15
    GPU = 2080Ti HoF
    Case Cooling = TT Riing Plus RGB Fans x8 with 2 TT Hubs 5 ports each >

    https://www.thermaltake.com/Case_Fan...k_/design.htm#

    #

    I haven't try much so far tbh, i'm busying myself with other stuff cuz i was super down over what happened so, a small time-off is doing me good.
    I don't have anything to test the PSU, nothing that can receive power directly and show sign that is working like a molex fan. That said tho
    The fan test button on the psu works and makes the fan spin so i know the psu is not outright dead. Only the mobo that is giving literally no sign of life.
    It turns its rgb without the system being on even, just flipping the switch on the psu, makes it light up. even with nothing connected to it but psu.
    After the event, it doesn't light up no matter what. So based on the little testing done, the mobo seems to have taken the blow. Also, i had someone test
    the psu with a multimeter and it beeped and they said that psu is likely defective, but when i ask online, the one and only jonnyguru himself responded
    saying that there are many devices to test that. Some beep to signalize it is getting a reading and not the opposite, so...

    I got nothing conclusive yet, but i'll work on it when i'm able. If there's anymore tips, i'm more than glad to hear 'em!

  6. #16
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    I don't think your motherboard is dead

    I am not understanding something here. I have never used the Thermaltake fans that the OP used, but I have built 2 rigs with a LOT of LED bling (just for the heck of it), but with Corsair products. That said, I looked at the owner's manual for the Thermaltake fans and they show the fans controller plugging into a 4-pin Molex cable that I assume plugs into a peripheral power port on the system power supply. A USB cable plugs into a USB port on the MOBO for control. The fans are getting power directly from the PSU via the 4-pin Molex. They are not getting power from the MOBO. So, can you explain again how this set up would damage the MOBO? Were you even using the fan headers on the MOBO? If not, how can the fans damage the motherboard?

    A 4-Pin Molex power connector is rated for a maximum of 60W @ 12VDC. The specs for those fans say than can consume 6.5W @ 12VDC, so 4 of them could consume 26 watts. If you connected both Thermaltake fan hubs to the same Peripheral power output of the PSU, the total power would be 52W which is kind of close but not over 60W. If you used a separate 4-pin Molex plugged into a separate peripheral output of the PSU, then each 4-fan/hub circuit is consuming 26 watts though it’s Molex power connector. Your Corsair RM850i power supply should be able to power those fans without a problem. If your fans are plugged into the Thermaltake hubs, they are getting power direct from the power supply and control via USB. if the fans damaged something, it would be your power supply, not your motherboard.

    As for testing your power supply, a volt meter beeping can mean a lot of things. Sometimes they beep when they auto-range. You can’t really tell anything from a meter beeping (unless you are measuring continuity in which case a steady beep means whatever you are measuring is shorted. You can test your power supply with a multi-meter, but if you disconnect the main 24-pin ATX power connector from the MOBO (which you should), you need to short pin 16 to Ground before the power supply will properly function. ATX standard pinout defines pin 16 as PS_ON (power supply ON), and pins 3, 5, 7, 15, 17, 18, 19 are all Ground. You must short pin 16 to ground for the power supply to function. Shorting pin 16 to 15 is easiest to do with the paper clip method.

    Some models come with a dummy header that you can plug into the 24-pin ATX connector to do this. If you don’t have an ATX power supply test header, you can short the pins with a paper clip, small piece of wire, etc. Here are 2 links that describe how to do this. So, my suggestion is to get a DC volt meter and an ATX test header (or a paperclip), and try testing your power supply again. Once you get it powered up, you should check the 12VDC, 5VSC and 3.3VDC. If any of these power rails are not functioning, your MOBO could appear to be dead when it’s not.

    If you do this, be careful and GOOD LUCK!

    https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-manu...imeter-2626158

    https://www.howtogeek.com/172933/how...-power-supply/

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBittel View Post
    snip]
    Imma be honest, i was a bit frightened by cases out the internet about people losing mobos to rgb fans so i thought the same happened with me even tho it doesn't make sense as you state, it is getting powered from the psu and control through mobo not drawing power from mobo... So, i was pessimistically speculating on that.

    You said if the fans were to damage something would be my psu? Honestly!? Mere fans can actually HURT a good quality PSU? (assuming the same is not afflicted by some sort of manufacturer defect).

    There is actually an update to the situation. Prior, the psu fan test would work, i'd press it, the fan would spin, early today i checked it out again, (just for the hell of it cuz i was waiting time to take it somewhere with proper tools and other system to thoroughly test the parts) and, no juice. I kept pressing the fan test button and the fan was super still. Prior, without any cable and back switch off, pressing the fan test would make it spin, now, it does not.

    I mentioned the issue it had early of when powering on, it would light up, then power down after a few seconds, merely pressing the case power button again, eventually would make the system fully turn on (2-3 tries). Some say that issue would point towards a bad mobo others a bad psu so i'm torn. The PC no longer turns on but i think that event was important. Maybe a sign that something was going to happen eventually.

    Thoughts?

    I'm scheduling to take the PC somewhere next week to test it thoroughly. Any significant updates i will post here

  8. #18
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    It is suspicious that the Fan Test button is now not working. Its really sounding more like a power supply issue to me. Here are some other things that may be worth verifying.

    That Corsair RM850i is Corsair Link enabled. It has a USB port on it. Did you connect a USB cable from the power supply to a USB port on the MOBO and were you running Corsair Link or iCue software at the same time you were running the Thermaltake TT RGB PLUS software? Doing so should not damage anything but its possible that this could have caused the erratic fan and fan LED operation you described before it went dark. There are really no standards for RGB control programs (Aura is probably the closest thing to one) and running multiple RGB control programs by different manufacturers at the same time can often cause strange problems to occur. If you are not running Corsair Link or iCue then nevermind, but I wonder why your fans and LEDs were acting so strangely before the failure.

    Having to push the case power button several times to get the system to boot is also suspicious. You say on power up it would light up then power down for a few seconds, then you would push the case power button multiple times until eventually it would boot. So it was not powering down for a few seconds, it was powering down for good, and you had to push the case power button for it to try again? That indicates a definite problem. You really need to test the power supply before you do anything else. It sounds to me like either your power supply had a problem and has now totally failed, or you have a bad (shorted, mis-wired, pinched) power cable.

    Can you confirm you are only using power supply cables that came with that power supply? Power Supply connector pin-outs are not always the same between manufacturers and using another brand of power cable can cause series problems.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBittel View Post
    It is suspicious that the Fan Test button is now not working. Its really sounding more like a power supply issue to me. Here are some other things that may be worth verifying.

    That Corsair RM850i is Corsair Link enabled. It has a USB port on it. Did you connect a USB cable from the power supply to a USB port on the MOBO and were you running Corsair Link or iCue software at the same time you were running the Thermaltake TT RGB PLUS software? Doing so should not damage anything but its possible that this could have caused the erratic fan and fan LED operation you described before it went dark. There are really no standards for RGB control programs (Aura is probably the closest thing to one) and running multiple RGB control programs by different manufacturers at the same time can often cause strange problems to occur. If you are not running Corsair Link or iCue then nevermind, but I wonder why your fans and LEDs were acting so strangely before the failure.

    Having to push the case power button several times to get the system to boot is also suspicious. You say on power up it would light up then power down for a few seconds, then you would push the case power button multiple times until eventually it would boot. So it was not powering down for a few seconds, it was powering down for good, and you had to push the case power button for it to try again? That indicates a definite problem. You really need to test the power supply before you do anything else. It sounds to me like either your power supply had a problem and has now totally failed, or you have a bad (shorted, mis-wired, pinched) power cable.

    Can you confirm you are only using power supply cables that came with that power supply? Power Supply connector pin-outs are not always the same between manufacturers and using another brand of power cable can cause series problems.
    I thought the same. They were behaving super weird and really took me for a loop as i was following manual of the fans and hub..

    Not precisely, i'd press once, it would light up, then power down after a few seconds, then i'd press a second time, the same would repeat, 3rd time would make it boot properly, i wasn't spamming the power button. I'd only press it once, let the PC do its thing, and only press again once it was powered down

    The power cable seems fine. Its a new one. I had to buy a new one cuz my old one is capable of less amperage (my old rig) plus i predicted issues and that i'd need my old rig and didn't want plug and unplug the psu all the time.

    Yea i'm only using the cables from the RMi that came. I don't have any other modular cables available so i couldn't even if i wanted to

  10. #20
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array JimmyH PC Specs
    JimmyH PC Specs
    MotherboardROG Strix Z370-E
    Processor8700K
    Memory (part number)CMK32GX4M4B3200C16
    Graphics Card #1ASUS STRIX GTX 1080
    MonitorBenq 27" x 2
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO
    CPU CoolerThermaltake Floe Ring 360
    CaseThermaltake View 71
    Power SupplyCorsair RM 850x
    Keyboard Strix
    Mouse ROG Pugio
    Headset Logitech933
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    Snow,

    I have no idea how this could kill your mobo. I have eight TT fans and a cooler. The fans operate totally seperate to the cooler. I ditched the hubs that came with the RGB Fan Packs and used the TT synch controller premium edition. You don't get the TT's many lighting options, but the fans all synch to the mobo. https://www.thermaltake.com/Cooler/C...ion/Design.htm

    Those errors are only for the RGB, your fans should have still been connected to the fan headers.

    What cooler is connected to your CPU header?

    Are you sure you didn't have a short somewhere with one of your plugs? And are you sure your mobo is dead?

    I know you are a perfectionist and all, so am I, but I had a dodgy 24 pin, one of the pins had recessed slightly. Have you checked that you have power to the board??


    CPU i7 8700K: MB: ROG Strix Z370-E Corsair Vengeance 3000 (4x8GB) : GTX-1080: Samsung 970 EVO, 2 x Kingston Hyper X
    500GB Velocerapter, PSU Corsair RM 850x
    Case Thermaltake View 71: Cooling Thermaltake Floe Riing 360 mm

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