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  1. #201
    ROG Enthusiast Array MattTheTech PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithMyers View Post
    I can't ever compare my latencies to any of the posts since I don't do Windows and don't have any of the tools that everyone uses. I can see latencies with Intel MLC and Geekbench4.

    keith@Serenity:~/Downloads/Utils/MLC$ ./mlc
    Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.6
    Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 53.4

    Measuring cache-to-cache transfer latency (in ns)...
    Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 15.3
    Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.3

    https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/14148236

    I have never used Intel MLC myself. I have seen it used in the enterprise and in articles written for the enterprise, but I have no personal experience with it. So I have no idea what commands to use, or really how it works. I read the entire page about it, so I have a bit on an idea, but yeah, I am a noob to it, so I just ran it without arguments, and am pasting all the results below.

    Also, is it possible you can drop me a link to the MLC 3.6 Tar, if you could upload it to google drive or some other uploading site, or I could even give you your own credentials to my FTP server and you can drop it there. Intel seems to wipe older versions off the face of the internet, so I can't find any trust worthy sources for 3.6, so I ran the only one I could find, 3.7. But would like to have both, Once I get a better understanding of this benchmark I think I may incorporate it into my Server Benchmarking Suite when testing new servers for rollout.

    Anyways, here are all the numbers Intel MLC 3.7 spit out for me:

    M:\Desktop\Programs\Tools\Benchmarking\mlc_v3.7\ml c_v3.7\Windows>mlc
    Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.7
    Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 50.6

    Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
    ALL Reads : 53200.0
    3:1 Reads-Writes : 49309.7
    2:1 Reads-Writes : 48572.8
    1:1 Reads-Writes : 47593.3
    Stream-triad like: 49598.5

    Measuring Memory Bandwidths between nodes within system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 53207.8

    Measuring Loaded Latencies for the system
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Inject Latency Bandwidth
    Delay (ns) MB/sec
    ==========================
    00000 299.99 53253.5
    00002 300.41 53271.1
    00008 294.23 53342.7
    00015 292.07 53367.4
    00050 280.45 53342.6
    00100 251.94 53394.6
    00200 91.29 50462.9
    00300 64.58 36564.1
    00400 60.20 28617.8
    00500 57.92 23568.4
    00700 55.26 17543.8
    01000 53.86 12803.0
    01300 53.51 10183.7
    01700 53.17 8102.4
    02500 52.85 5924.2
    03500 52.65 4587.9
    05000 52.41 3588.1
    09000 52.18 2543.8
    20000 52.24 1819.8

    Measuring cache-to-cache transfer latency (in ns)...
    Using small pages for allocating buffers
    Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 14.4
    Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.7
    Last edited by MattTheTech; 08-08-2019 at 08:24 AM.

  2. #202
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array xeizo PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
    I've never had to use the AMD menu setting in your screenie on UEFI 2406/2501/0068/2602. I use the Memory Frequency & FCLK Frequency on Extreme Tweaker page TBH. Be aware you can capture UEFI screen shot to USB stick by pressing F12.
    Thanks for the F12 tip, I 'm not a reviewer so never needed it. You say you never had to use this setting, but still, it is sometimes not in sync. You can see it in benchmarks as latencies are off, which was also reported in most reviews trying high memory frequency. Well, if you set this setting to the same value as Fclk latencies are never off anymore.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeizo View Post
    Thanks for the F12 tip, I 'm not a reviewer so never needed it. You say you never had to use this setting, but still, it is sometimes not in sync. You can see it in benchmarks as latencies are off, which was also reported in most reviews trying high memory frequency. Well, if you set this setting to the same value as Fclk latencies are never off anymore.

    As buggy as these UEFI's have been, I do not doubt that there are situations where the FCLK Didn't set itself properly. You would think just setting the FCLK underneath the Ram Clock would be enough, but this is early ASUS UEFI's we are talking about, they tend to be the best in the industry when they Mature, but whenever a new Architecture is released, especially on the AMD Side, they tend to BETA UEFI's...

    That said, going back and checking all my numbers, it appears I haven't had this problem once, as my latency's seem to have scaled accordingly. Just to be certain though I went and set my FCLK in all 3 Places (I don't know which overrides which), and set my Ratio to 1:1, I then retested and got exactly the same Latency at my timings, so I think mine was setting itself properly, but that doesn't mean everyone was. Anyways, I am including screenshots below so everyone can see where to go to set all the FCLK related settings. Even though I am sure everyone could figure it out with just the settings page screen shot, I took screenshots of where to go to get there to just to be extra helpful. Everyone already knows how to get to the main FCLK setting on the Extreme Tweaker Page, so I didn't bother including a screenshot of that.

    Here is How to Get to the page with both the FCLK and the Ratio Settings, buried in the AMD CBS section:





    Here is the First FCLK Setting


    Here is the First UCLK:MCLK Ratio Setting:




    Now here is how to get to the other FCLK Setting Buried under the "AMD Overclocking" Section:





    And Finally, here is that setting:




    Now if someone can tell me which one of these settings take precedence, that would be awesome! LOL!

    EDIT: And for the LIFE of me, I can not figure out how to put all the pictures into a "Spoiler" section like in the OCN Forums to make this post take up less real estate on screen, I apologize for that! If anyone knows how, that tip would also be appreciated.
    Last edited by MattTheTech; 08-08-2019 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #204
    ROG Guru: Blue Belt Array gupsterg PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeizo View Post
    Thanks for the F12 tip, I 'm not a reviewer so never needed it. You say you never had to use this setting, but still, it is sometimes not in sync. You can see it in benchmarks as latencies are off, which was also reported in most reviews trying high memory frequency. Well, if you set this setting to the same value as Fclk latencies are never off anymore.
    NP on the F12 tip, I'm not a reviewer either. I just find it handy to use for my own reference of data. For example I always take a screen capture of page where mobo FW/EC FW versions are and the CPU page where it show microcode so can see which UEFI are using what. Also as the captures are clearer I've used them in the past to show xyz a setting/share my setups.

    My usual is 3x runs of AIDA64, at times I have done 6x back to back. I can only state on my one Matisse rig I do only as stated before and benches are fine. My usual is CB R15, CB R20, CPU-Z bench, AIDA64 Cache/RAM, I do these benches as and when change profiles, then stability test.

    Only quirk I have seen with my rig is I can pass stability testing with lower SOC/VDDG/VDIMM, but when run the "bench suite" I get lower performance. When voltages are sorta what I think I should be at for targetted settings I get performance relevant to setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTheTech View Post
    Now if someone can tell me which one of these settings take precedence, that would be awesome! LOL!

    EDIT: And for the LIFE of me, I can not figure out how to put all the pictures into a "Spoiler" section like in the OCN Forums to make this post take up less real estate on screen, I apologize for that! If anyone knows how, that tip would also be appreciated.
    The duplicated settings you don't need match to one another.

    Only thing I have noted on my rig is with UEFI 2406/2501/2602 it's best to change SOC/VDDG/VDDP in AMD menus, as then I do not get ~1.1V SOC bounce at initial POST of board and then set voltage I did for rest of POST/normal runtime. With UEFI 0068 it's best to use the Extreme Tweaker page settings.

    Then on UEFI 0068 the scalar change on Precision Boost Menu on Extreme Tweaker had no effect, AMD menu did.
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  5. #205
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array xeizo PC Specs
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    I think we can all agree these menus are messy and spread all over the place, let's hope Asus can clean up and remove duplicates.

  6. #206
    ROG Guru: Blue Belt Array gupsterg PC Specs
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    I think we'll still see duplication.

    AMD CBS is the menu that was on 1xxx/2xx and now can be used on 3xxx.

    The AMD Overclocking menu I saw on a slide by AMD and believe is just for 3xxx. Why I say that is I have used UEFI 2406 with 2700X and never saw that section, but on 3600 I do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    On 1xxx/2xxx CPU, it was sorta preferred to use the ASUS settings. If due to OC, board failed to POST, AMD "recovery mode" would reset settings. All the settings on ASUS sections of UEFI would still be there to reapply, the AMD CBS ones would be reset and need to be manually re-entered or profile would need reapplying.
    Last edited by gupsterg; 08-08-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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  7. #207
    ROG Enthusiast Array KeithMyers PC Specs
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    Hey Matt, thanks for the feedback. My first question is what kind of ram timings did you manage at 3600Mhz. I can do CL14 Fast timings. That certainly helps with the integer math. But you are correct in your assumption that Linux aids math calcs better than Windows. It does for almost all the comparisons I regularly come across. But that test system certainly wasn't optimized. It is my daily driver and has everything plus the kitchen sink running on it. My barebones systems that do nothing but crunch whoop it regularly when it comes to cpu task processing time simply because they don't have all the crap running on them that I do on this daily driver. It is what I browse on, handles all the network communications for all my solar generation and monitoring and weather telemetry gear to upload to the cloud and runs my BoincTasks server to constantly poll all the other PC's on the network for their running tasks and stats. All that stuff is running when I do a Geekbench 4 benchmark. The only process I stop for the benchmark is BOINC.

  8. #208
    ROG Enthusiast Array KeithMyers PC Specs
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    Red face Here is a link to my Google Drive and MLC 3.6.7z

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTheTech View Post
    I have never used Intel MLC myself. I have seen it used in the enterprise and in articles written for the enterprise, but I have no personal experience with it. So I have no idea what commands to use, or really how it works. I read the entire page about it, so I have a bit on an idea, but yeah, I am a noob to it, so I just ran it without arguments, and am pasting all the results below.

    Also, is it possible you can drop me a link to the MLC 3.6 Tar, if you could upload it to google drive or some other uploading site, or I could even give you your own credentials to my FTP server and you can drop it there. Intel seems to wipe older versions off the face of the internet, so I can't find any trust worthy sources for 3.6, so I ran the only one I could find, 3.7. But would like to have both, Once I get a better understanding of this benchmark I think I may incorporate it into my Server Benchmarking Suite when testing new servers for rollout.

    Anyways, here are all the numbers Intel MLC 3.7 spit out for me:

    M:\Desktop\Programs\Tools\Benchmarking\mlc_v3.7\ml c_v3.7\Windows>mlc
    Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.7
    Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 50.6

    Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
    ALL Reads : 53200.0
    3:1 Reads-Writes : 49309.7
    2:1 Reads-Writes : 48572.8
    1:1 Reads-Writes : 47593.3
    Stream-triad like: 49598.5

    Measuring Memory Bandwidths between nodes within system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 53207.8

    Measuring Loaded Latencies for the system
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Inject Latency Bandwidth
    Delay (ns) MB/sec
    ==========================
    00000 299.99 53253.5
    00002 300.41 53271.1
    00008 294.23 53342.7
    00015 292.07 53367.4
    00050 280.45 53342.6
    00100 251.94 53394.6
    00200 91.29 50462.9
    00300 64.58 36564.1
    00400 60.20 28617.8
    00500 57.92 23568.4
    00700 55.26 17543.8
    01000 53.86 12803.0
    01300 53.51 10183.7
    01700 53.17 8102.4
    02500 52.85 5924.2
    03500 52.65 4587.9
    05000 52.41 3588.1
    09000 52.18 2543.8
    20000 52.24 1819.8

    Measuring cache-to-cache transfer latency (in ns)...
    Using small pages for allocating buffers
    Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 14.4
    Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.7
    Hey Matt, here is the link to my Google Drive for the old MLC 3.6.7z that I used. You can run it for direct comparisons against my full scores.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eH...UqdJO2w-jeu3jg

    This is my full report from MLC 3.6.7

    keith@Serenity:~/Downloads/Utils/MLC$ ./mlc
    Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.6
    Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 51.7

    Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
    ALL Reads : 54690.7
    3:1 Reads-Writes : 49475.9
    2:1 Reads-Writes : 48821.9
    1:1 Reads-Writes : 47867.3
    Stream-triad like: 49708.7

    Measuring Memory Bandwidths between nodes within system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 54647.6

    Measuring Loaded Latencies for the system
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Inject Latency Bandwidth
    Delay (ns) MB/sec
    ==========================
    00000 243.36 54617.5
    00002 244.71 54689.2
    00008 241.15 54693.0
    00015 234.49 54627.6
    00050 229.91 54618.4
    00100 209.39 54585.8
    00200 72.33 49238.9
    00300 61.94 35622.3
    00400 58.29 28012.0
    00500 55.80 23018.1
    00700 53.88 17229.9
    01000 53.73 12586.3
    01300 53.15 10022.3
    01700 52.76 7990.0
    02500 52.34 5850.3
    03500 51.42 4557.8
    05000 51.36 3569.0
    09000 52.44 2510.9
    20000 52.29 1805.6

    Measuring cache-to-cache transfer latency (in ns)...
    Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 15.3
    Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 25.1
    keith@Serenity:~/Downloads/Utils/MLC$



    Hope this helps you. We are not that far apart with regard to memory performance.

  9. #209
    ROG Enthusiast Array MattTheTech PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithMyers View Post
    Hey Matt, thanks for the feedback. My first question is what kind of ram timings did you manage at 3600Mhz. I can do CL14 Fast timings. That certainly helps with the integer math. But you are correct in your assumption that Linux aids math calcs better than Windows. It does for almost all the comparisons I regularly come across. But that test system certainly wasn't optimized. It is my daily driver and has everything plus the kitchen sink running on it. My barebones systems that do nothing but crunch whoop it regularly when it comes to cpu task processing time simply because they don't have all the crap running on them that I do on this daily driver. It is what I browse on, handles all the network communications for all my solar generation and monitoring and weather telemetry gear to upload to the cloud and runs my BoincTasks server to constantly poll all the other PC's on the network for their running tasks and stats. All that stuff is running when I do a Geekbench 4 benchmark. The only process I stop for the benchmark is BOINC.
    Crazy man! So My Timings were also Fast 3600, but I tuned them even further than the Fast preset in the new Ryzen DRAM Calculator, specifically For Timings that differ from the preset is trcdrd:14-trc:38-trrdl:4-tfaw:12-trfc:256-tcwl:12-trtp:7, mainly I have found the one that seems to make the most difference in latency (and really we are only talking about .1 of a ns, but its consistent, is dropping the trfc as low as you possibly can. However, I have all 4 DIMMS populated with 2 16gb Flare X 3200CL14 Kits, so its a tiny bit harder to tune these than just with one Kit, at least for me. And when I first Validated this, I was able to pass 1000% of Karhu's RAM Test no problem, and I am not sure what has changed (Probably the night I spent throwing 1.75v at the DIMMS trying to get 3800MHZ to boot I might have degraded one of the DIMM Modules a bit) but I kept getting weird program crashes last night some time after those benchmark runs, and all roads pointed to the RAM, so I did another Ram Test, and this time I couldn't get past 177% with the same exact timings I had validated before. I spent all night trying to get it stable, and even with 1.6v it just wasn't happening, so I dialed it back to 1.45v and went back to the Fast Preset, which would still fail at around 300% consistently, So I ended up having to raise the trfc to 294 before I was finally passing 2000% without a problem. So now I am 100 Percent stable again, but unfortunately my timings are a tiny bit looser than what you were running (if you stuck with Fast). I was able to beat you in both Memory Bandwidth and Latency (how ever slightly) before, and now I bet if I did the same exact test you would probably beat me slightly.

    So I don't think the reason why you crushed me so bad was down to RAM, it has to be something in my Windows System that is just crushing me, or I am possibly not as stable as I thought or something. I am going to boot up to one of my Ubuntu Drives when I have a chance and run the same test again and see how I do. That will at least tell me if Its Windows or my Overclock that is the issue.

    Regardless this was a fun and revealing exercise. I hope more people post their Geekbench 4 scores to give you something to compare too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithMyers View Post
    Hey Matt, here is the link to my Google Drive for the old MLC 3.6.7z that I used. You can run it for direct comparisons against my full scores.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eH...UqdJO2w-jeu3jg


    Hope this helps you. We are not that far apart with regard to memory performance.
    Thank You for the MLC 3.6.7. I Ran it, and am about to post my results below.

    Also I am curious if you have run The Blender Benchmark for your system. They have it on Linux (You can get it from this url: https://opendata.blender.org/ ), and its a great realistic workload to compare against Platforms. Linux is also supposed to have the upper hand here, but I am wondering by how much. Below I am posting 2 of my Results. The First one is the Benchmark I just ran, its with my system at 4225Mhz all core, With memory at 3600Mhz and the not as tight CL 14-14-15-14-30-42-294 timings. Then the result below that was with my tighter timings that I mentioned earlier (The Primaries being CL 14-14-14-14-28-38-256), and My Per CCX OC which was CCX0:4450Mhz/CCX1:4400Mhz/CCX2:4250Mhz/CCX3:4300. This gave me a pretty decent little boost, which this benchmark reflects. Anyways Here's all the data, I will list Blender First, since they are just links.

    Blender 4250 All Core/ Ram 3600 (Slightly Looser Timings): https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...d-87058058e955

    Blender Per CCX OC / Ram 3600 (Tighter Timings): https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...7-2e9771f94161

    And then here is the MLC Test Results using the same version You Did:

    M:\Desktop\Programs\Tools\Memory Tools\MLC v3.6.7\Windows>mlc
    Intel(R) Memory Latency Checker - v3.6
    Measuring idle latencies (in ns)...
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 51.0

    Measuring Peak Injection Memory Bandwidths for the system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using traffic with the following read-write ratios
    ALL Reads : 52202.7
    3:1 Reads-Writes : 45943.8
    2:1 Reads-Writes : 44857.6
    1:1 Reads-Writes : 43866.5
    Stream-triad like: 46852.8

    Measuring Memory Bandwidths between nodes within system
    Bandwidths are in MB/sec (1 MB/sec = 1,000,000 Bytes/sec)
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Numa node
    Numa node 0
    0 52219.9

    Measuring Loaded Latencies for the system
    Using all the threads from each core if Hyper-threading is enabled
    Using Read-only traffic type
    Inject Latency Bandwidth
    Delay (ns) MB/sec
    ==========================
    00000 311.15 52462.6
    00002 315.54 52413.7
    00008 302.79 52484.3
    00015 301.74 52479.9
    00050 293.57 52511.5
    00100 279.07 52483.3
    00200 120.75 51526.8
    00300 68.97 37011.6
    00400 63.24 28865.1
    00500 61.16 23653.2
    00700 57.92 17542.7
    01000 56.09 12789.7
    01300 55.86 10145.4
    01700 55.09 8076.6
    02500 54.84 5881.2
    03500 54.48 4553.1
    05000 54.41 3543.7
    09000 54.32 2495.9
    20000 54.01 1779.6

    Measuring cache-to-cache transfer latency (in ns)...
    Using small pages for allocating buffers
    Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 14.4
    Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.6
    Last edited by MattTheTech; 08-09-2019 at 10:20 AM.

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