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  1. #1
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    G-Sense error rate increasing on my ASUS N56JR laptop.

    I posted this here because the N56JR is pretty much the same as the G56JR.

    The hard drive I am currently using is a Western Digital WD7500BPKX-80HPJT0

    Also before I say anything, I already contacted Western Digital support. They told me to run DataLifeguard. My hard drive passed the tests, but they said something about how their software doesn't support this value, and that as long as my hard drive passes the test, it is fine. In other words, they didn't really answer my question as to why my G-sense error rate increases.

    Here is the problem I am having.

    I have been tracking the S.M.A.R.T attribute for my hard drive known as the G-sense error rate, and it seems to be increasing, albeit slowly. I heard that this value has something to do with physical shock, such as bumping into the laptop or shaking it, or moving it while it is on. My laptop hasn't moved, and I never bumped into it, but the G-sense error rate raw values still increase.

    I have documented the G-sense error rates between 743 power on hours to 1166 power on hours, and there is no pattern as to when the G-sense error rate increases. Sometimes it takes 10 power on hours to increase the G-sense error rate by one, and sometimes it takes 144 power on hours to increase the G-sense error rate by one.

    I do not have any proof as to what may most likely increase the G-sense error rate on my hard drive, but I think one of these may be the culprit:

    1. The spin up time. I don't know for sure, but the G-sense error rate seems more likely to increase the slower the spin up time is.

    2. How vigorous I use the touchpad, or how much I put my palm where the hard drive is. The hard drive is situated to the right of the touchpad, so if I rest my palm there, it might register the G-sense error rate.

    3. Running demanding programs. It seems that it is more likely the G-sense error rate will go up when I run demanding programs vs leaving the laptop idle.

    All 3 of these are just my guesses anyway.

    I checked with numerous programs that display the S.M.A.R.T values, and they all seem to be consistent. I attached a screenshot of CrystalDiskInfo showing my S.M.A.R.T values. Whatever raw value that is 0 was still 0 ever since I started looking at the increasing G-sense error rate.

    Do any of you, who own a G56JR, or N56JR have problems with the G-sense error rate increasing? I seriously can't pinpoint why mine increases. Is it a problem with the hard drive, or is it because the G-sense error rate is too sensitive?

    Just to let you know, my G-sense error rate raw value went from 76 to 77 when I upgraded my nvidia graphics driver, restarted my laptop and played a bit of GL Quake. The laptop didn't move, nor did I bump into it.

    I also want to know what is your current G-sense error rate raw value on your laptops, and has it been rising?

    I don't know, I am totally stumped about this.
    Miniatura de Adjuntos Miniatura de Adjuntos crystaldisksept162014.jpg  


  2. #2
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by signofzeta View Post
    I posted this here because the N56JR is pretty much the same as the G56JR.
    The hard drive I am currently using is a Western Digital WD7500BPKX-80HPJT0
    Also before I say anything, I already contacted Western Digital support. They told me to run DataLifeguard. My hard drive passed the tests, but they said something about how their software doesn't support this value, and that as long as my hard drive passes the test, it is fine. In other words, they didn't really answer my question as to why my G-sense error rate increases.
    Here is the problem I am having.
    I have been tracking the S.M.A.R.T attribute for my hard drive known as the G-sense error rate, and it seems to be increasing, albeit slowly. I heard that this value has something to do with physical shock, such as bumping into the laptop or shaking it, or moving it while it is on. My laptop hasn't moved, and I never bumped into it, but the G-sense error rate raw values still increase.
    I have documented the G-sense error rates between 743 power on hours to 1166 power on hours, and there is no pattern as to when the G-sense error rate increases. Sometimes it takes 10 power on hours to increase the G-sense error rate by one, and sometimes it takes 144 power on hours to increase the G-sense error rate by one.
    I do not have any proof as to what may most likely increase the G-sense error rate on my hard drive, but I think one of these may be the culprit:
    1. The spin up time. I don't know for sure, but the G-sense error rate seems more likely to increase the slower the spin up time is.
    2. How vigorous I use the touchpad, or how much I put my palm where the hard drive is. The hard drive is situated to the right of the touchpad, so if I rest my palm there, it might register the G-sense error rate.
    3. Running demanding programs. It seems that it is more likely the G-sense error rate will go up when I run demanding programs vs leaving the laptop idle.
    All 3 of these are just my guesses anyway.
    I checked with numerous programs that display the S.M.A.R.T values, and they all seem to be consistent. I attached a screenshot of CrystalDiskInfo showing my S.M.A.R.T values. Whatever raw value that is 0 was still 0 ever since I started looking at the increasing G-sense error rate.
    Do any of you, who own a G56JR, or N56JR have problems with the G-sense error rate increasing? I seriously can't pinpoint why mine increases. Is it a problem with the hard drive, or is it because the G-sense error rate is too sensitive?
    Just to let you know, my G-sense error rate raw value went from 76 to 77 when I upgraded my nvidia graphics driver, restarted my laptop and played a bit of GL Quake. The laptop didn't move, nor did I bump into it.
    I also want to know what is your current G-sense error rate raw value on your laptops, and has it been rising?
    I don't know, I am totally stumped about this.
    Google is your friend

    https://www.google.com/search?q=s.m....nse+error+rate

    S.M.A.R.T. Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

    191 0xBF G-sense Error Rate The count of errors resulting from externally induced shock & vibration.

    Whenever you bump your laptop and the motion is transferred to the running disk drive, and the force is above a predetermined level, the count goes up by 1.

    If you only move your laptop when it is powered off, then you shouldn't see any more increases in the G-sense Error Rate.

  3. #3
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    Google can tell you what G-sense error rate is, but it sure doesn't tell you why the G-sense error rate increases when there is absolutely no externally induced shock or vibration on my laptop.

    I recorded my G-sense error rate and it was at 77.

    After that, I did the following.

    I mounted YDKJ3 Abwarts using Daemon tools.
    I ran YDKJ3 Abwarts

    I pressed the follwing keys. 1, 3, J. 1 to select between 2 choices (you press 1 or 2). 3 to select 3 players, and J (J (Ja) or N (Nein)) to select whether you want to hear instructions or not, in which case I selected Yes, or Ja in German. (Just to let you know, I don't know any German, but I like listening to it, even if I don't understand it, which is why I am running the game)

    I let the game run without any input, that is, I didn't even bother to buzz in and answer the questions, I just let the game run.

    After the round was over, I pressed the following buttons: Esc, B. Escape key pulls up the menu options, and B, for Beenden, quits the game.

    I checked the G-sense error rate again, and now the raw value is at 78.

    I did not move my laptop while it is on. I did not bump into my laptop. I did not induce a physical shock to my laptop all the while the game is running.

    I don't think running a game and leaving it counts as externally induced shock and vibration.

    Looking at my other Smart Values that aren't 0:

    Spin-Up Time, varies. Doesn't increase or decrease over time.

    Start/Stop Count: A non-zero value should be normal, and I believe an increasing value should be normal.

    Power on Hours should definitely increase, so no problems there.

    Power Cycle Count should also increase, unless you don't power cycle your laptop.

    Power Off Retract count is currently at 4 for me, but was at 3 a while ago. I can say that this is a count of the number of hard resets you do to your laptop, so that isn't really a problem for me.

    Load/Unload cycle count seems to increase at a fast rate for me, but I believe that it is normal for Western Digital Hard Drives.

    Temperature, well, temperature shouldn't be at a raw value of 0 anyway, so to me that is normal.

    The only thing that is abnormal is the G-sense error rate. As I said before, I don't even touch my laptop, and the value goes up. Theoretically, the G-sense error rate is supposed to go up when there is an externally induced shock to my laptop, but in actuality, there was no external induced shock, and the G-sense error rate went up anyway.

    I am asking if other people have the same problems I do, as I found 2 other threads about this, but no concrete answer. I've posted numerous threads in different forums, contacted ASUS and Western Digital Support, read up on threads and posts from other people with the same issues, and most of the time, there was no concrete answer.

    The increase in my G-sense error rate raw values seems to be inconsistent. It was stable at a raw value of 76. It started increasing again after I decided to upgrade my Nvidia drivers, but I don't think it is at fault.

    I really want to know though, if the only thing that increasing is my G-sense error rate, and the values that are currently 0 stay at 0, is my hard drive fine? From the threads I read, some people say it is fine, some people say it is the end of the world for the hard drive. I do not want to replace a hard drive if the current one still works, but at the same time, I should replace the hard drive if I know the current one will fail. DataLifeGuard says my hard drive passes all tests, but I don't know if G-sense error rate alone is an indicator of hard drive failure, especially when it goes up when it is not supposed to.
    Last edited by signofzeta; 09-16-2014 at 08:17 AM.

  4. #4
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by signofzeta View Post
    I recorded my G-sense error rate and it was at 77.
    After that, I did the following.
    I mounted YDKJ3 Abwarts using Daemon tools.
    I ran YDKJ3 Abwarts
    I pressed the follwing keys. 1, 3, J
    I let the game run without any input, that is, I didn't even bother to buzz in and answer the questions, I just let the game run.
    After the round was over, I pressed the following buttons: Esc, B
    I checked the G-sense error rate again, and now the raw value is at 78.
    I don't think running a game and leaving it counts as externally induced shock and vibration.
    signofzeta, apparently it does

    It could be a reason to RMA the drive, but not with your low count:

    https://kb.acronis.com/content/9181
    https://kb.acronis.com/search/site/g-sense

    "Recommendations
    Although this parameter is not considered critical by the most hardware vendors, degradation of this parameter may indicate electromechanical problems of the disk. Regular backup is recommended. If no other (critical) parameters report a problem, hardware replacement is recommended on mission critical systems only."

    Here is the G-Sense/SMART info for my 1TB drive. My count is at 100, and if you look at the comparative data the ratio of power on hours vs G-sense count your numbers don't look out of place.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crystaldiskinfo 1TB.JPG 
Views:	0 
Size:	131.8 KB 
ID:	41129
    Last edited by hmscott; 09-16-2014 at 08:20 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmscott View Post
    signofzeta, apparently it does

    It could be a reason to RMA the drive, but not with your low count:

    https://kb.acronis.com/content/9181
    https://kb.acronis.com/search/site/g-sense

    "Recommendations
    Although this parameter is not considered critical by the most hardware vendors, degradation of this parameter may indicate electromechanical problems of the disk. Regular backup is recommended. If no other (critical) parameters report a problem, hardware replacement is recommended on mission critical systems only."

    Here is the G-Sense/SMART info for my 1TB drive. My count is at 100, and if you look at the comparative data the ratio of power on hours vs G-sense count your numbers don't look out of place.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crystaldiskinfo 1TB.JPG 
Views:	0 
Size:	131.8 KB 
ID:	41129
    You are looking at the current values, not the raw values. A higher current value is good. A higher raw value is bad. My current value is at 22, while my raw value is at 78. Your current value is at 100 while your raw value is at 0.

    It really means that your G-sense error rate is perfect.
    Last edited by signofzeta; 09-16-2014 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #6
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
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    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
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    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
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    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by signofzeta View Post
    You are looking at the current values, not the raw values. A higher current value is good. A higher raw value is bad. My current value is at 22, while my raw value is at 78. Your current value is at 100 while your raw value is at 0.
    It really means that your G-sense error rate is perfect.
    signofzeta, got it.

    Normalized 100 or 200 value Current / Worst is equal, with 0 RAW means no/0 count - idk if that is perfect or not used.

    My SSD's don't have a G-Sense row...

    There are other vibration values in the spec, but don't show in Crystaldiskinfo....

    IDK if 77 is high because something is wrong with the disk, or the sensor, which is essentially the same but might not risk data / function loss. The count is supposed to be of external forces acting on the drive, not a measure of internal drive actions.

    Found your posts elsewhere, and it sounds like you have done all you can do. WD disk tests pass. The number keeps going up.

    If it bothers you I open a case with WD for your drive, and an Technical Inquiry with ASUS - they might be getting reports from other users.

    Asus will require you to send your laptop to RMA the drive, but WD should cross ship a replacement - secured with your credit card - which is the least hassle, and the most direct connection to the source of the drive - hopefully WD can work this out for you.

    I see older posts about other WD drives with increasing, and 1 decreasing G-sense counts, and WD RMA'd for them.

    Let us know how it works out
    Last edited by hmscott; 09-16-2014 at 11:33 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmscott View Post
    signofzeta, got it.

    Normalized 100 or 200 value Current / Worst is equal, with 0 RAW means no/0 count - idk if that is perfect or not used.

    My SSD's don't have a G-Sense row...

    There are other vibration values in the spec, but don't show in Crystaldiskinfo....

    IDK if 77 is high because something is wrong with the disk, or the sensor, which is essentially the same but might not risk data / function loss. The count is supposed to be of external forces acting on the drive, not a measure of internal drive actions.

    Found your posts elsewhere, and it sounds like you have done all you can do. WD disk tests pass. The number keeps going up.

    If it bothers you I open a case with WD for your drive, and an Technical Inquiry with ASUS - they might be getting reports from other users.

    Asus will require you to send your laptop to RMA the drive, but WD should cross ship a replacement - secured with your credit card - which is the least hassle, and the most direct connection to the source of the drive - hopefully WD can work this out for you.

    I see older posts about other WD drives with increasing, and 1 decreasing G-sense counts, and WD RMA'd for them.

    Let us know how it works out
    I already contacted ASUS and Western Digital support. ASUS says something about a software related issue, in which I reply "how so?", and ASUS responds "I don't know", while Western Digital told me to run DataLifeGuard, and I gave them my results. They then said that the software does not support G-sense error rate value, and by software, I assume it is DataLifeGuard, which is not true, because I can clearly see the value for G-sense error rate when I use DataLifeGuard.

    I also ran SpeedFan, and it says my hard drive is OK, and "in-depth online analysis" says that the health is at 94% while the performance is at 97%.

    If I send my laptop back to ASUS, will they replace the entire laptop or just the hard drive? Will RMA with WD cost anything, and will it void the ASUS warranty?

    Do you think the G-sense error rate is more sensitive when the hard drive is working, as in, something is being installed or moved, compared to an idle hard drive?
    Last edited by signofzeta; 09-16-2014 at 12:50 PM.

  8. #8
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
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    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
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    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by signofzeta View Post
    I already contacted ASUS and Western Digital support. ASUS says something about a software related issue, in which I reply "how so?", and ASUS responds "I don't know", while Western Digital told me to run DataLifeGuard, and I gave them my results. They then said that the software does not support G-sense error rate value, and by software, I assume it is DataLifeGuard, which is not true, because I can clearly see the value for G-sense error rate when I use DataLifeGuard.

    I also ran SpeedFan, and it says my hard drive is OK, and "in-depth online analysis" says that the health is at 94% while the performance is at 97%.

    If I send my laptop back to ASUS, will they replace the entire laptop or just the hard drive? Will RMA with WD cost anything, and will it void the ASUS warranty?
    signofzeta, it's a tough call. I think on second thought, I would buy a new SSD or SHDD to replace the 750GB, and put the 750GB aside to use in an emergency - it has a bootable OS + recovery partition - keep it as a backup/recovery resource.

    A new 1TB SHDD is cheap; a nice 256GB/512GB SSD will improve your G750 performance immensely.

    And, dicking around with this $50 crappy HDD is nothing but a waste of time

    Invest your time and $$$ in something that is going to improve your G750, not keep it the same.

    You would have to check with Asus if they will penalize you for RMA'ing the HDD to WD, but I don't think they would. RMA to WD within Warranty should be covered, but you may have to pay for shipping - although they used to cross ship a new replacement with a return mailer for your drive - and they would only temporarily put a $$$ hold on your credit card for the value of the disk - releasing it when they get your returned bad drive.

    Let us know what you end up doing, and how it works out

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    A third option I could do is keep on riding this ship, I mean, hard drive, but I do not have any data on whether other people's hard drive with similar problems as mine has failed or not.

    If I RMA to ASUS, will they backup everything on the old hard drive to the replacement hard drive?

    These are the 3 questions that are always left unanswered, given that there is no external shock to the laptop, and 0 values for read error rate, seek error rate, write error rate, reallocated sector counts, uncorrectable sector counts, and current pending sector counts.

    Why does my G-sense error rate go up given the conditions above?

    Sensitive G-sense error rate sensors, or something mechanically wrong with my drive, or how the drive is mounted?

    Given the conditions that I mentioned above, is the drive guaranteed to fail in a short period of time, like around less than 5 years?

    From the threads I read, some people kept on using their hard drives, and some RMA'd them, so I cannot gather any facts on whether a rising G-sense error rate is a serious issue or not, serious as in my hard drive will die before the rest of the hardware, typically the video card, becomes obsolete, which is pretty much in 3 to 4 years.
    Last edited by signofzeta; 09-16-2014 at 01:25 PM.

  10. #10
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
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    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
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    Quote Originally Posted by signofzeta View Post
    A third option I could do is keep on riding this ship, I mean, hard drive, but I do not have any data on whether other people's hard drive with similar problems as mine has failed or not.
    If I RMA to ASUS, will they backup everything on the old hard drive to the replacement hard drive?
    signofzeta, you can't count on Asus preserving your data, you need to back it up yourself before sending the laptop/drive to Asus or the drive to WD.

    There is something odd / wrong with the drive, whether it escalates to a data loss situation is unknown, but why be the first data loss failure for this problem, let someone else find the failure point if one exists.
    Last edited by hmscott; 09-16-2014 at 03:16 PM.

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