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  1. #1
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array martine-dee PC Specs
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    Power 8-Pins: Which is Which in GPU-Z (e.g. ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3090 OC)

    Hi, folks.

    I've started observing the perfcap reasons in GPU-Z, and something interesting came up. A lot of throttling is voltage-related.
    I collected the stats for the three pins, and that yielded interesting information: the 8-pin #1 underperforms.

    My question is, does someone here know how GPU-Z 8-pin indexes #1, #2, and #3 map to physical PCIe power connectors?

    Code:
    #1 stable
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.00 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.10, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 6.57 [4.42 - 10.74] (dev. lo:1.79, hi:3.71)
    power:     avg: 79.45 [53.50 - 128.90] (dev. lo:21.66, hi:44.88)
    
    #1 throttled
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.00 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.10, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 9.93 [4.61 - 10.72] (dev. lo:0.79, hi:0.25)
    power:     avg: 120.07 [55.80 - 128.70] (dev. lo:9.85, hi:2.98)
    
    #2 stable
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.10 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.00, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 5.73 [2.21 - 12.50] (dev. lo:2.98, hi:6.05)
    power:     avg: 69.32 [26.70 - 151.30] (dev. lo:36.06, hi:73.23)
    
    #2 throttled
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.10 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.00, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 11.37 [2.98 - 12.83] (dev. lo:1.44, hi:0.41)
    power:     avg: 137.53 [36.10 - 155.30] (dev. lo:17.39, hi:4.94)
    
    #3 stable
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.10 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.00, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 5.91 [2.74 - 11.86] (dev. lo:2.62, hi:5.43)
    power:     avg: 71.45 [33.20 - 143.50] (dev. lo:31.73, hi:65.73)
    
    #3 throttled
    voltage:   avg: 12.10 [12.10 - 12.10] (dev. lo:0.00, hi:0.00)
    amperage:  avg: 10.74 [3.12 - 11.88] (dev. lo:1.22, hi:0.40)
    power:     avg: 129.94 [37.80 - 143.80] (dev. lo:14.82, hi:4.83)
    Last edited by martine-dee; 07-04-2021 at 08:32 PM.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Array Nate152 PC Specs
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    Hello martine-dee,

    I have no idea how GPU-Z reads the power connectors but, what looks like is happening is your ROG Strix 3090 is throttling from hitting the power limit.

    Do you have GPU Tweak II installed? If so, try increasing the power target to +123% to see if this helps.

    The ROG Strix 3090 can draw up to 480 watts.

  3. #3
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array martine-dee PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate152 View Post
    ...
    Hi there.

    Thanks for responding. No worries about this, I am conducting own research independently of what comes in here, and will report.

    So far, I replaced the PCIe power cable to the 8-pin connector that is the closest to the GPU. That flattened the voltage in the reported 8-pin #1 SIGNIFICANTLY. Thus, I take it as an empirical fact that the 8-pin #1 is the one closest to the GPU.

    However, the voltage in 8-pins is neither perfect nor equally stable across all 8-pins, so I am still looking at that. I need to analyze more data, and that will take some time, since I do it in my free time. The next step is to compare full stats before and after the cable swap.

    There had been power throttling, and not much that can be done about that (the card was already at the 123% power limit). However, there were unique events of voltage-related-only throttling reported by GPU-Z:

    Code:
    Throttling stats:
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_RELIABILITY  : 3041    (81.62%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_POWER        : 2781    (74.64%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_OPERATING    : 2281    (61.22%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_UTILIZATION  : 462     (12.40%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_THERMAL      : 11      (0.30%)
    For comparison, this is what the voltage-related throttling dropped to after swapping out the cable:
    Code:
    Throttling stats:
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_POWER        : 7034    (83.44%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_UTILIZATION  : 1075    (12.75%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_RELIABILITY  : 401     (4.76%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_OPERATING    : 57      (0.68%)
      NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_THERMAL      : 12      (0.14%)
    Same game (Cyberpunk 2077), same game settings, same NVCP settings, same driver, same versions of all software. Just another cable.

    P.S. An other topic that doesn't belong here, I am also building an air tunnel for my 3090, to tackle the rare moments of thermal throttling. As I stabilize other parameters, the thermal throttling will remain the only one that needs tackling. Not much can be done about the power and utilization limitations. Also, the cooler the card is, the longer it will last. My goal is to keep it under 60C at all times.
    Last edited by martine-dee; 07-07-2021 at 04:04 PM.
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  4. #4
    Moderator Array Nate152 PC Specs
    Nate152 PC Specs
    MotherboardROG Maximus IX Code
    Processori7-7700k 5.2GHz Delidded
    Memory (part number)16GB G.Skill Trident Z 4025MHz 17-17-17-39-2T
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    You have one of the best psu's you can get, I find it strange swapping a pcie power cable would give you better results but it is what it is. Good to see you're making head way with your thorough testing.

    Do you use On Screen Display to monitor temps, voltages, clock speeds etc, while playing games? I like using an OSD for this purpose.

    I'm sure you know how to control the fans manually or with a curve to keep temps low, it would be interesting to know how much your air tunnel helped.

    As an example, here is GPU Tweak II's OSD. I'm liquid cooling an older titan xp and 7700k.


  5. #5
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array martine-dee PC Specs
    martine-dee PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus ROG Maximus XII Extreme
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    Memory (part number)G.Skill F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR @ 3600 MHz CL14
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    Sound CardCreative Sound Blaster AE-9
    MonitorAsus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN
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    Nice temps, and thanks for the compliments!

    Liquid colling seems so far superior to the plain airflow, even though results on my end are also rather good for a 3090: I am at the mark of keeping the card at 70C or cooler at the +23% power draw boost. So far, I haven't done something too fancy. I've externalized the card, and assigned three 140 mm Noctuas to it, at a pretty low rpm (1000s to 1500s; those fans can do 3000 rpm!). I also used the cardboard cutouts to focus fans' airflow to the card's built-in radiator. Now, the whole thing needs some walls and a rooftop, and that will be my air tunnel. More like an air bunker. Too bad I can't 3D-print. I'd design a one-piece item that fits all this together.

    The PSU might be good, but the cables are quite stretched. I would be most comfortable if I could replace them all with longer cables that can comfortably reach everything in a TT View 91.

    Unfortunately, things had been turbulent for me so I haven't continued prodding into gaining more data about voltage stability. Currently, the voltage instability generally comes from the PCIe connector, which is possibly caused by the riser cable. Tough luck, eh? I don't feel like blowing more money on another riser cable that might have the same issues or worse.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, maybe in the future I will turn to liquid cooling and overdo the radiator count. Something like five external 420 mm radiators. In case that I decide to stick with Intel, the Cryo tech will be an option. I also want to try that anti-leak gadget.

    An upgrade is in the far future, we'll see what the tech giants come up with by then. I can only talk about the "right here and now".

    To answer your questions, I forgot what issues I had with the GPU Tweak II, but I tried using it. I am with MSI Afterburner. The GPU-Z logs everything to a *.csv file, so I don't need to worry about watching graphs and numbers while gaming. When I do need to watch things, I use another display. The pic above shows another DP cable in the card. It is normally connected to nothing, but when I watch numbers, it is in another monitor. For some basic overview, I use the NVIDIA performance overlay (alt+R with GFE up).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by martine-dee; 07-20-2021 at 01:46 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Just my two cents.
    Ive never been able to reach the full potential on anything since the 8800 series without liquid cooling. Get it cool and the performance will blow your mind. Im running a pair of 2080Tis that never make 40C with decent water blocks.

  7. #7
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array martine-dee PC Specs
    martine-dee PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus ROG Maximus XII Extreme
    ProcessorIntel Core i9-10900K
    Memory (part number)G.Skill F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR @ 3600 MHz CL14
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    Sound CardCreative Sound Blaster AE-9
    MonitorAsus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJohnny View Post
    Just my two cents.
    Ive never been able to reach the full potential on anything since the 8800 series without liquid cooling. Get it cool and the performance will blow your mind. Im running a pair of 2080Tis that never make 40C with decent water blocks.
    Hi. Thanks for visiting.

    Yes, liquid cooling seems far superior for extending the life of the components, and for combating thermal throttling.

    This thread arrived to voltage stability challenges, however, and I am almost out of ideas, save for aligning the riser cable this or that way, or trying another/new model.
    I try to keep it straight, and I would say that the wires do experience minimal and very curved bending. It still isn't good.

    Well, I answered my initial question. I think I should move the rest to another thread about troubleshooting.
    Last edited by martine-dee; 07-21-2021 at 10:55 AM.
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