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  1. #21
    Administrator Array Silent Scone@ROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainbold View Post
    I disagree. Intel itself is using P95 for their overclocking and stressing utility. They know why.
    1. As stated many users do not use Prime and are stable as they need to be. This is a methodology that we endorse and have done for some time.

    2. If in a commercial environment one could argue you shouldn’t be overclocking. No overclock is 100% stable.

    3. Passing XTU Prime algorithms or conventional P95 without AVX doesn’t ensure stability. There are instances where certain platforms can pass P95 but fail in x265 encode, or other tasks. Any overclocker worth their salt will use a variety of tests. Real world AVX often makes more sense than synthetic.

    4. P95 with AVX routines can degrade a CPU depending on the applied overclock and impede overclocking range.

    5. Finding instability in games is no different to crashing Prime. You adjust the tune accordingly.

    The take away ultimately is seeing things for what they are. If user A. Is stable at 5.3 all core and gaming, but cannot run P95, User B. Who is using P95 and cannot run 53 all core is welcome to do so, but shouldn’t try to instil on others that user A. cannot be stable, this is a falsehood. In a world where OC potential narrows constantly, impeding one’s performance to pass something you will never run makes less and less sense. Of course, it’s a free country - that doesn’t make either argument stronger or weaker.
    Last edited by Silent Scone@ROG; 02-06-2022 at 04:55 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone@ROG View Post
    1. Â*As stated many users do not use Prime and are stable.
    Â*
    Others are not. It's a question of your testing standards and the level of stability you require.

    P95 or similar Intel's XTU (that is based on P95) can be used in many ways, for softer testing, or hardcore. Go soft, or stay hard.

  3. #23
    New ROGer Array Jimbo93 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone@ROG View Post

    2. If in a commercial environment one could argue you shouldn’t be overclocking. No overclock is 100% stable.

    3. Passing XTU Prime algorithms or conventional P95 without AVX doesn’t ensure stability. There are instances where certain platforms can pass P95 but fail in x265 encode, or other tasks. Any overclocker worth their salt will use a variety of tests. Real world AVX often makes more sense than synthetic.

    4. P95 with AVX routines can degrade a CPU depending on the applied overclock and impede overclocking range.
    first hand observation is better than general rules
    Any failed test that is hardware related is a failure, I dont mean to subscribe to any particular algorithm but P95 is one of a battery I would expect to pass before saying a system is without hardware fault lurking.
    We are talking about a pass fail test where it is assumed thermals are kept in spec during the reasonable time it takes to pass or fail.

  4. #24
    Administrator Array Silent Scone@ROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo93 View Post
    first hand observation is better than general rules
    Any failed test that is hardware related is a failure, I dont mean to subscribe to any particular algorithm but P95 is one of a battery I would expect to pass before saying a system is without hardware fault lurking.
    We are talking about a pass fail test where it is assumed thermals are kept in spec during the reasonable time it takes to pass or fail.
    *

    It’s an age old debate that brings out the same black and white thinking.

    As I’ve said, there are users running higher clocks than you and are as stable as they need to be. Let’s not forget one can run Prime for 48 hours or longer and the system could easily throw a stop code later on. So how long is enough? What if someone ran 72 hours, are they more stable than you? How sure are you it won’t fall 6 hours after the test was halted? You catch my meaning .

    You certainly wouldn’t want to find out on some platforms. For maximum stability we want small FFT, right? To run a 5950x at an effective 4.4GHz we need 1.184v under load. This results in 274W through the die, closer to three times the stock TDP. Doesn’t sound too healthy, does it! .
    Last edited by Silent Scone@ROG; 02-06-2022 at 05:32 AM.

  5. #25
    New ROGer Array Jimbo93 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone@ROG View Post
    *

    It’s an age old debate that brings out the same black and white thinking.

    As I’ve said, there are users running higher clocks than you and are as stable as they need to be. Let’s not forget one can run Prime for 48 hours or longer and the system could easily throw a stop code later on. So how long is enough? What if someone ran 72 hours, are they more stable than you? *

    You certainly wouldn’t want to find out on some platforms. For maximum stability we want small FFT, right? To run a 5950x at an effective 4.4GHz we need 1.184v under load. This results in 274W through the die, closer to three times the stock TDP. Doesn’t sound too healthy, does it! *
    You bring up an important point, and I think you do have to consider the extra pressure of the overclock vs. the length of the test. I wouldn't need to go more than 30m to an hour depending on amount of frequency boost I was trying to achieve.
    Last edited by Jimbo93; 02-06-2022 at 05:35 AM.

  6. #26
    Administrator Array Silent Scone@ROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo93 View Post
    You bring up an important point, and I think you do have to consider the extra pressure of the overclock vs. the length of the test. I wouldn't need to go more than 30m to an hour depending on amount of frequency boost I was trying to achieve.
    Different strokes for different folks as they say. But you get my meaning. Not much point passing a stress test if your logic gates are as wide as the Grand Canyon after the fact!

    That kind of current on the above example is not something anyone should be endorsing.

  7. #27
    New ROGer Array Jimbo93 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone@ROG View Post
    Different strokes for different folks as they say. But you get my meaning. Not much point passing a stress test if your logic gates are as wide as the Grand Canyon after the fact!

    That kind of current on the above example is not something anyone should be endorsing.
    I mentioned no frequency boost and did not intend to endorse any particular frequency/test regimen. In other words, one should research the specs vs. the stress expected.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone@ROG View Post
    4. P95 with AVX routines can degrade a CPU depending on the applied overclock and impede overclocking range.
    This would be a matter of concern. Is this an "assumption", or based on some research / evidence?

    I guess though that any extended stress testing will eventually degrade the CPU or RAM.

  9. #29
    Administrator Array Silent Scone@ROG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo93 View Post
    I mentioned no frequency boost and did not intend to endorse any particular frequency/test regimen. In other words, one should research the specs vs. the stress expected.
    Well, on the aforementioned platform with overclocking restrictions lifted, you shouldn’t run Prime AVX at all. It’s not something I’d recommend anyone do.

    *
    Quote Originally Posted by Chainbold View Post
    This would be a matter of concern. Is this an "assumption", or based on some research / evidence? I guess though that any extended stress testing will eventually degrade the CPU or RAM.

    Rule of thumb one should try to stick below double the default TDP. Something that’s quite difficult to do with Prime AVX / small FFT. The above is a real figure taken from a real scenario. 270W through a 5950x package is brutal.


    Again, just something else to consider when having to limit your OC potential.
    Last edited by Silent Scone@ROG; 02-06-2022 at 06:23 AM.

  10. #30
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    Not going to read all this arguing, but TL;DR I don’t know what the guy did but it is not working again. It worked for 20 minutes in the store, I took it home, next day I tried loading Team Fortress 2 and it blue screened 3 times in a row. This is unbearable. I’m not even trying to overclock it for god’s sake. It blue screens on default settings on TEAM FORTRESS 2. THIS IS A GAME FROM 2007. I am taking it to the retailer tomorrow and will have the motherboard replaced. This is actually the most frustrating experience I have ever had with computers. No matter what setting it put it on I get blue screens in game after only 5 minutes. I don’t know what to do at this point. I am considering simply returning the motherboard and buying a different manufacturer, this is absurd that I can’t run a 2007 game on even default settings without instant “clock watchdog timeout”.
    Last edited by toby12f; 02-06-2022 at 09:17 AM.

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