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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array fostert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewben View Post
    it depends on your usage (for daily usage, some say even 8gb is too much); you might feel that there's no apparent improvements if you do not have something that actually make use of it.

    in your case, i think a SSD is a better investment. a decent SSD will do; it will bring you some 'major performance improvements'.
    +1 for this. Unless you *routinely* fill *all 8GB* (say, to keep a pile of applications running) then going to 16GB will create no performance improvement, either real or perceptible. You WEI score will not change for just a size increase in RAM; I would think it measures memory operations per second, and not the quantity of RAM. It may change if the clock and/or the latency timings of the newly added RAM is different, since thats what impacts memory ops per second.
    Get an SSD, my friend. For example, NCIX had an Intel 520 240GB SATA3 SSD on yesterday for $190. Thats a crazy good deal, IMO. Unfortunately that special is over and its now back to $270. Kicking myself for missing that, but i don't want to upgarde mysystem right now, since its working 100% perfectly, and I can't afford any down time.
    --
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  2. #12
    New ROGer Array Zygomorphic's Avatar
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    +1 @fostert! I have 16 GB of RAM, and it helps for me because I run VMs on a regular basis, and I wanted enough RAM for that. Also, the RAM was cheap and I was already going to disassemble the computer to upgrade the HDD. My G53SX is a bear to take apart . Most people wouldn't notice a difference, and a RAM disk is pretty much a waste, since an SSD is nearly as fast and a whole lot bigger (and accelerates Windows boot too).

    On another note, @fostert, has Debian come out with a newer kernel? I am running 3.4.11 right now, and there are newer ones available. Are you not upgrading to prevent potential for system breakage? Also, there are newer nVidia LINUX drivers available now.
    I am disturbed because I cannot break my system...found out there were others trying to cope! We have a support group on here, if your system will not break, please join!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=16
    We now have 178 people whose systems will not break! Yippee!
    LINUX Users, we have a group!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=23

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array rewben PC Specs
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    Laptop (Model)G55VW-3D
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    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    +1 for this. Unless you *routinely* fill *all 8GB* (say, to keep a pile of applications running) then going to 16GB will create no performance improvement, either real or perceptible. You WEI score will not change for just a size increase in RAM; I would think it measures memory operations per second, and not the quantity of RAM. It may change if the clock and/or the latency timings of the newly added RAM is different, since thats what impacts memory ops per second.
    Get an SSD, my friend. For example, NCIX had an Intel 520 240GB SATA3 SSD on yesterday for $190. Thats a crazy good deal, IMO. Unfortunately that special is over and its now back to $270. Kicking myself for missing that, but i don't want to upgarde mysystem right now, since its working 100% perfectly, and I can't afford any down time.
    thanks, @fostert

    i have a 16gb ram disk running at all times; i am thinking of extending it to 24gb when i don't run my VMs haha!

  4. #14
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    ok great thanks guys ill order them today
    and ill be lookin to get a ssd also soon

  5. #15
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array mrwolf's Avatar
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    Yea the SSD is an essential upgrade ! will make things 10x faster


  6. #16
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array fostert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    +1 @fostert! I have 16 GB of RAM, and it helps for me because I run VMs on a regular basis, and I wanted enough RAM for that. Also, the RAM was cheap and I was already going to disassemble the computer to upgrade the HDD. My G53SX is a bear to take apart . Most people wouldn't notice a difference, and a RAM disk is pretty much a waste, since an SSD is nearly as fast and a whole lot bigger (and accelerates Windows boot too).
    Yeah, I too run a VM of Windows 7 under Debian. I really like Windows that way: controlled. When it inevitably corrupts itself after a few months use, I simply restore the VM using a snapshot and voila! Clean and well-behaved again. I tend to throw 8GB at it in the VM, and use the other 24GB for my data display program running in Linux.

    I wish I could get an SSD and put it in, but I can't right now. I have two 500GB HDDs in my G74 that have a single 900 GB LVM partition spread across them, so I can't take one out without disrupting the whole linux install. And I don't want to do that right now, since my machine is my life and my productivity is priority while I'm working here in Penticton at the radio observatory. I've only got a year and want to spend it writing papers and doing research! So I need reliability right now, and not more speed/performance. If it ain't broke...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    On another note, @fostert, has Debian come out with a newer kernel? I am running 3.4.11 right now, and there are newer ones available. Are you not upgrading to prevent potential for system breakage? Also, there are newer nVidia LINUX drivers available now.
    I haven't tried kernel 3.4 yet...still happily running the older stable 3.2 that came with Debian squeeze 6.0. At kernel.org you can get the latest stable linux (3.7.1) now, and compile it yourself. I used to compile my own kernels back in the day (running slackware linux with kernel 1.2: that was in 1995),but now am just as happy using stable compiled versions that come with the distros (i'm into Debian at the moment). I'll get around to trying 3.7 probably next year when I return to my job in Brandon and life has settled back down. I don't like to muck about with upgrading to the latest NVIDIA linux drivers either, since I don't game and hence don't need the performance increments, and those drivers have always been twitchy to compile and get going right. Again, if it ain't broke....
    --
    G74SX-CST1-CBIL, i7 2630QM 2GHz
    32GB DDR3 RAM @1333MHz
    GTX560M 3GB DDR5 (192 bit)
    17.3" LED 1920x1080
    Sentelic TP, BIOS 203
    Debian Linux Wheezy (Testing) Kernel 3.2, NVIDIA 295.40

  7. #17
    New ROGer Array Zygomorphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    Yeah, I too run a VM of Windows 7 under Debian. I really
    like Windows that way: controlled. When it inevitably corrupts itself after a
    few months use, I simply restore the VM using a snapshot and voila! Clean and
    well-behaved again. I tend to throw 8GB at it in the VM, and use the other 24GB
    for my data display program running in Linux.
    I am considering switching my native Win 8 install to a VM, since I never boot
    to it, and it would make more sense there than as another partition using up
    space that I will never use. Honestly, when I get my next computer in ~3 years,
    I will definitely consider just having a native LINUX install with Windows
    running in a VM. Nothing I really do can't be done from LINUX, and the
    occassional Windows only program will just be run from a VM. I don't game,
    so the lack of 3D-gfx support is a moot issue for me.

    My present system configuration has too many Windows installs, so VMs would
    probably be nicer and more portable. That way, I could move the Windows
    installation more easily from one computer to the next.

    Right now I have openSUSE 12.3 in a VM, as well as CentOS 6. VirtualBox is
    awesome Out of curiosity, what VM program do you use?

    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    I wish I could get an SSD and put it in, but I can't right
    now. I have two 500GB HDDs in my G74 that have a single 900 GB LVM partition
    spread across them, so I can't take one out without disrupting the whole linux
    install. And I don't want to do that right now, since my machine is my life and
    my productivity is priority while I'm working here in Penticton at the radio
    observatory. I've only got a year and want to spend it writing papers and doing
    research! So I need reliability right now, and not more speed/performance. If it
    ain't broke...
    Ditto. I have a 500GB Seagate Momentus Hybrid that I bought and a 640GB Hitachi
    that came with the computer. The Hitachi is noticeably quieter, but the
    performance jump is worth it. I thought about an SSD, but the price premium to
    get enough space for all my VMs and OS installs would have been more than I was
    willing to pay. The Hybrid drive is fast enough, and accelerates the OS boot,
    which is what I wanted. openSUSE boots really, really fast now I totally
    understand the side of "If it ain't broke...", I don't have the same level of
    reliability constraints, which is why I mess around.

    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    I haven't tried kernel 3.4 yet...still happily running the
    older stable 3.2 that came with Debian squeeze 6.0. At kernel.org you can get
    the latest stable linux (3.7.1) now, and compile it yourself. I used to compile
    my own kernels back in the day (running slackware linux with kernel 1.2: that
    was in 1995),but now am just as happy using stable compiled versions that come
    with the distros (i'm into Debian at the moment). I'll get around to trying 3.7
    probably next year when I return to my job in Brandon and life has settled back
    down. I don't like to muck about with upgrading to the latest NVIDIA linux
    drivers either, since I don't game and hence don't need the performance
    increments, and those drivers have always been twitchy to compile and get going
    right. Again, if it ain't broke....
    How well do you like Debian? I used Ubuntu from 9.10 up to 11.04, and the
    increase in the number of bugs drove me away. I tried 12.04.1 again, and it was
    just about as bad. Fedora was pretty reliable, but getting the nVidia drivers
    working was well nigh impossible. Since I update the gfx drivers whenever nVidia
    comes out with a new one, the difficulty of getting the nVidia drivers working
    was a sticking point for me. I am presently trying openSUSE, and it seems to
    work quite well, just getting a LiveUSB installer working is all but impossible.
    I like being able to try the distro out before installing it into my computer.
    That's also why I now have my /home partition separated from the others.
    Ubuntu's default was to have it all together, which annoyed me because it meant
    that re-installing LINUX required backing everything up or loosing it, which was
    a pain. Now with the /home on a separate partition, I can change distros without
    loosing my files.

    Of all the LINUX distros I've tried, Ubuntu 10.04 was the best, but they didn't
    support my newer hardware very well (kernel 2.3X). Getting the wireless drivers
    working was a pain, but once I got it configured, it worked. openSUSE 12.2 has
    been perfectly stable, but the developer-preview of 12.3 in my VM needs a fair
    amount of work. We shall see how reliable it turns out to be once the team
    releases it officially. I have heard good things about Debian, just never tried
    it.
    I am disturbed because I cannot break my system...found out there were others trying to cope! We have a support group on here, if your system will not break, please join!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=16
    We now have 178 people whose systems will not break! Yippee!
    LINUX Users, we have a group!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=23

  8. #18
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array
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    "Properly Seated"!!! I never had to push so hard to insert RAM! Tight fitting is good!

    I used Patriot tha I bought at Frys for $40.

  9. #19
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array fostert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    Out of curiosity, what VM program do you use?
    I started using the commercial (non-free) VMWare back in 2002 when it was fairly new. It was amazingly stable and ran XP flawlessly under linux; in fact I remember XP behaving better when managed by a VM host! Then I made the mistake of switching to VirtualBox when it was new (2007'ish). Not a pleasant experience: buggy, half my devices didn't work, and VMs were very unportable: to copy a Virtual machine took several very odd steps and was far too complicated compared to VMWare (where you just copy the files...). I came back to VMWare last year, and now keep my license up to date.
    I am sure VirtualBox is better nowadays. My mistake was trying it early on and expecting it to be as high quality as a commercial product. Not so. Thank goodness OpenSource is not the only option: good commercial software is truly priceless if it works right! (Sorry, Richard Stallman).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    ... the price premium to
    get enough space for all my VMs and OS installs would have been more than I was
    willing to pay. The Hybrid drive is fast enough, and accelerates the OS boot,
    which is what I wanted. openSUSE boots really, really fast now
    I am in the same boat with my work: the data files I play with are simply too large, and that makes buying enough SSD storage impossibly expensive for me. I think I am stuck to platter drives for the next few years, at least until the $-per-GB of SSDs comes down to something reasonable (say, like 20cents per GB).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    How well do you like Debian?
    I just started using Debain full time in 2011, and am very, very happy with it! I came off of Scientific Linux (fedora based), which is simply an immature distro, and not very well maintained for new and current hardware, and new packages (e.g. gfortran wouldn't even compile my code: when I switched to Debian, gfortran worked perfectly well as it should). The one best thing about Debian is its package management. Synaptic and APT/aptitude are both very forgiving: you can automatically install the package you need without needing to install 40 other updates to other dependent packages! And Debian is about the only distro that you can update completely to a new version without things breaking. E.g. try going from Windows XP straight to Windows 7 and keep all your installed programs, files and links intact!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    I am presently trying openSUSE, and it seems to
    work quite well, just getting a LiveUSB installer working is all but impossible.
    I like being able to try the distro out before installing it into my computer.
    I've never used openSUSE , nor Ubuntu. I heard bad stories about Ubuntu trying to replace the X windows system or something with its own "Unity" or something like that, and hackers were not happy. I doubt I'll ever try it, since its popular!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    That's also why I now have my /home partition separated from the others.
    Ubuntu's default was to have it all together, which annoyed me because it meant
    that re-installing LINUX required backing everything up or loosing it, which was
    a pain. Now with the /home on a separate partition, I can change distros without
    loosing my files.
    Thats a great idea...hmmm..I think I'll try that! Have always had /home as part of /, and you're right... it would be annoying if one were to be constantly reinstalling linux to try out new distros. I guess I tend to stick to one distro for many years and move on glacially when my sysadmin (a true linux hacker and guru) tries out a new distro on my new laptop. Thats how I got to Debian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    I have heard good things about Debian, just never tried it.
    Its the best supported distro out there by the community, bar none. Chances are if you need Linux to do something very specialized, someone has done it already and it has become part of the code for debian.
    --
    G74SX-CST1-CBIL, i7 2630QM 2GHz
    32GB DDR3 RAM @1333MHz
    GTX560M 3GB DDR5 (192 bit)
    17.3" LED 1920x1080
    Sentelic TP, BIOS 203
    Debian Linux Wheezy (Testing) Kernel 3.2, NVIDIA 295.40

  10. #20
    New ROGer Array Zygomorphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fostert View Post
    I started using the commercial (non-free) VMWare back in
    2002 when it was fairly new. It was amazingly stable and ran XP flawlessly under
    linux; in fact I remember XP behaving better when managed by a VM host! Then I
    made the mistake of switching to VirtualBox when it was new (2007'ish). Not a
    pleasant experience: buggy, half my devices didn't work, and VMs were very
    unportable: to copy a Virtual machine took several very odd steps and was far
    too complicated compared to VMWare (where you just copy the files...). I came
    back to VMWare last year, and now keep my license up to date.
    I am sure VirtualBox is better nowadays. My mistake was trying it early on and
    expecting it to be as high quality as a commercial product. Not so. Thank
    goodness OpenSource is not the only option: good commercial software is truly
    priceless if it works right! (Sorry, Richard Stallman).



    I am in the same boat with my work: the data files I play with are simply too
    large, and that makes buying enough SSD storage impossibly expensive for me. I
    think I am stuck to platter drives for the next few years, at least until the
    $-per-GB of SSDs comes down to something reasonable (say, like 20cents per GB).


    I just started using Debain full time in 2011, and am very, very happy with it!
    I came off of Scientific Linux (fedora based), which is simply an immature
    distro, and not very well maintained for new and current hardware, and new
    packages (e.g. gfortran wouldn't even compile my code: when I switched to
    Debian, gfortran worked perfectly well as it should). The one best thing about
    Debian is its package management. Synaptic and APT/aptitude are both very
    forgiving: you can automatically install the package you need without needing to
    install 40 other updates to other dependent packages! And Debian is about the
    only distro that you can update completely to a new version without things
    breaking. E.g. try going from Windows XP straight to Windows 7 and keep all your
    installed programs, files and links intact!



    I've never used openSUSE , nor Ubuntu. I heard bad stories about Ubuntu trying
    to replace the X windows system or something with its own "Unity" or something
    like that, and hackers were not happy. I doubt I'll ever try it, since its
    popular!



    Thats a great idea...hmmm..I think I'll try that! Have always had /home as part
    of /, and you're right... it would be annoying if one were to be constantly
    reinstalling linux to try out new distros. I guess I tend to stick to one distro
    for many years and move on glacially when my sysadmin (a true linux hacker and
    guru) tries out a new distro on my new laptop. Thats how I got to Debian.



    Its the best supported distro out there by the community, bar none. Chances are
    if you need Linux to do something very specialized, someone has done it already
    and it has become part of the code for debian.
    Very much true. I am a strong advocate for Free Software, but not some kind of
    religious nut (I run the proprietary nVidia drivers). The key issue for me is
    that I like LINUX better than Windows, and prefer an OS that is open-source over
    one that is sometimes buggy, and always bloated. I have found VirtualBox to be
    awesome for my experimental needs, and it is quite good now. On par with VMware,
    probably not, but good enough for nerd use. It is a little difficult to move
    VMs, , but I figure that the user polish is probably not as important as being
    FLOSS, and the community can help write instructions for it. Also, someone can
    come along and edit the source code to improve the user experience quality.

    I will definitely give Debian a try, especially since I had an initially good
    experience with Ubuntu, and so gained some familiarity with the system. The APT
    package-management system is the best, bar none. Synaptics is a great tool for
    using APT. Actually, OpenSUSE's Yast2 tool is quite powerful as well,
    probably on par with Synaptics. It also happens to do other things besides
    package-management to make it a more universal OpenSUSE tool.

    Yes and no on the Ubuntu with X Server. They are trying to kill it, yes, but the
    LINUX community at large seems to endorse the idea of a better replacement for
    the X Server. Wayland is Canonical's attempt to do so, and ostensibly it will
    have backwards compatibility with the X11 protocol. Unity is Ubuntu's current
    interface, which I personally dislike and it has been really, really buggy in
    the past. Hence why I switched. That, and the recent news about the phone-home
    to Amazon really rubbed me the wrong way.

    Once I find a distro that really works, especially when I get my next computer,
    I will be setting up a long-term LINUX solution, with the other distros in a VM.
    That way, my main system is undamaged, and with virtualization as good as it is
    and getting better, I will be able to try out new distros with little
    difficulty. I already use VMs for most of my distro trials, but having the
    /home separate from / is probably just a good idea in practice, as it keeps the
    OS separate from the user data. You obviously have more need for long term
    support than I do, so your reluctance to change distros makes perfect sense.

    Thanks for all the info on Debian, will download tonight and give it a try! I
    can't blame Debian for Ubuntu's abuse of their system, especially considering
    that it is only in the last 2 years that Canonical has turned Ubuntu in the
    direction that they have. We need another distro to step up to the plate of
    serving the new LINUX converts, one that simply works and works well, with a
    minimum of fuss. Power users can mess around in any distro that they like, but
    just one that is what Ubuntu was: "LINUX for human beings" would be great for
    driving the adoption of LINUX on the home user's desktop.

    That is why I created this thread, as a plea to ASUS for a FLOSS computer in
    light of Microsoft's move to lock down the PC evironment:
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread...e-BIOS-support
    I am disturbed because I cannot break my system...found out there were others trying to cope! We have a support group on here, if your system will not break, please join!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=16
    We now have 178 people whose systems will not break! Yippee!
    LINUX Users, we have a group!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=23

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