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  1. #681
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaemonCantor View Post
    Thank You snowking7, it just hit me funny considering with the AMD lines things like H.264 and such are handled on the GPU and not on the CPU but this test seemed like it was all CPU because thru things like SpeedFan I was getting all kinds of CPU Utilization but no GPU use at all.
    The only places where the GPU is used is drawing of the program Windows and DXVA2.0 (if available) when decoding the video during the Multitasking test. Both of these will not load the GPU enough for you to see any difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkjeThe2nd View Post
    is optimizing vlc settings allowed, and will it have an impact? it's not set up for the best h264 perormance by default...
    VLC is not running at default settings and is optimized for RB. Also you can not optimize it manually since overriding parameters are passed to it programmatically, on execution.
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  2. #682
    Shut Up Stupid! Array DaemonCantor's Avatar
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    Thank You all for the answers, I now understand. Nodens , you programed RB to only use the CPU and that's a great idea but in this scenario AMD is always going to lag behind due to some of the Special Instruction Set's that Intel has versus what AMD has plus the other things like AMD's instance on putting all possible Parallel Data Crunching on the GPU instead of the CPU with it's CPU Vector Extensions. A good example would be Programs like Adobe Photoshop, Daz Pozer AutoCad where with AMD CPU's in conjunction with their GPU's get a MAJOR Speed Boost by using GPGPU processing. AMD has been pushing this since back in the HD4xxx day's using extensions like AMD Transcoding for starters and here over the last few years using Tech from the APU's.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you did a Bad job but you did a Great Job, it's just in the real World due to AMD's Drivers the average person won't see much of a Difference because of two things, A) they not going to get into heavy OC'n like most here and don't really Care, and B) with AMD's Drivers utilizing the GPU a lot more than what this bench utilizes will bering them a Lot Closer to the Intel side.

    If I'm wrong I apologize in advance and please take the time and update me but how I see it is what will Joe Avaerge that's looking at let's say fixing up his Facebook Page or Watching Hulu or any of the Real things he does in an average 2hours before going to bed after a Long Day's Work see's things. Truthfully I don't know anybody the encodes H.264 streams on a baisis enough to even warrent the tag of Very Occasionally...I have never done it intentionally myself....sorry but I use .mp4 for most of my vids when I even decide to take the time.

  3. #683
    AntiMatter Guru ROG Array chrsplmr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiVizMan View Post
    None or marginal amount of this benchmark is on the GPU Chris. The benchmark is the same for both processor types. It uses real world applications as the engine for the bench. So you get a fair reflection of what the different CPU's are like based on these applications. The benchmark does favour multi-core systems over say a dual core system and that is about the only skew that there is.
    aaaahhh .. I see, said the blind man. Very interesting to say the least. thnx.c.

  4. #684
    Nick Array IM2L844's Avatar
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    Well, I have to say it was the perfect tool for me to see how my motherboard/CPU/memory combination stacked up with a mild overclock and without a discreet GPU. I'm guessing it may have taken a little more effort to get that more narrowly focused picture so quickly with other benchmarking tools. BTW, this M6 Hero is impressing me beyond my expectations for the cost. I saw it on sale yesterday for $209, but let's keep that on the down low or ASUS might raise their price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    ...
    VLC is not running at default settings and is optimized for RB. Also you can not optimize it manually since overriding parameters are passed to it programmatically, on execution.
    ah... thanks for explaining that... maybe it was a placebo effect then I witnessed, but thought I got 25 more on multitasking after some tweaks I found here: http://dexviajiboy2.blogspot.nl/2011...layer-for.html
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  6. #686
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaemonCantor View Post
    Thank You all for the answers, I now understand. Nodens , you programed RB to only use the CPU and that's a great idea but in this scenario AMD is always going to lag behind due to some of the Special Instruction Set's that Intel has versus what AMD has plus the other things like AMD's instance on putting all possible Parallel Data Crunching on the GPU instead of the CPU with it's CPU Vector Extensions.
    It's not like that. The GPU is not used at all except for the DXVA2.0 hardware acceleration of h.264 decoding. This is enabled on vlc and is independent of Intel and AMD. If your video card and driver supports it then it works in both cases.
    Regarding the video encoding AVX instructions (which are found in both AMD and Intel CPUs) are used. So the field is also level here as well. AVX is supported on both platforms.

    A good example would be Programs like Adobe Photoshop, Daz Pozer AutoCad where with AMD CPU's in conjunction with their GPU's get a MAJOR Speed Boost by using GPGPU processing. AMD has been pushing this since back in the HD4xxx day's using extensions like AMD Transcoding for starters and here over the last few years using Tech from the APU's.
    This is irrelevant really. This is GPU computing and it's CUDA or OpenCL for the applications you mention. An OpenCL test will be in version 2. But still this has nothing to do with the performance of the existing tests.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you did a Bad job but you did a Great Job, it's just in the real World due to AMD's Drivers the average person won't see much of a Difference because of two things, A) they not going to get into heavy OC'n like most here and don't really Care, and B) with AMD's Drivers utilizing the GPU a lot more than what this bench utilizes will bering them a Lot Closer to the Intel side.
    The GPU is irrelevant here really. RB currently tests only the CPU and RAM. There is absolutely no bias towards Intel or AMD and if GPU computing was enabled it would be enabled for both platforms which means that it would benefit the Intel scores as much as it would the AMD ones. The difference would still be the same.
    The difference in scores between the platforms are only attributed to one singular fact. Multithreading performance on Intel is superior by FAR compared to the AMD platform and RB is a multithreading beast. But this is something that is a realistic fact. The subprograms we use is the same that anyone would use to do the same work. For example for the encoding we use Handbrake which is the defacto free software for ripping DVD discs for your media collection. We're not doing anything artificially..we test exactly how your PC would perform if you would actually convert a DVD into a 1920x1080 h.264 mp4 file...

    If I'm wrong I apologize in advance and please take the time and update me but how I see it is what will Joe Avaerge that's looking at let's say fixing up his Facebook Page or Watching Hulu or any of the Real things he does in an average 2hours before going to bed after a Long Day's Work see's things. Truthfully I don't know anybody the encodes H.264 streams on a baisis enough to even warrent the tag of Very Occasionally...I have never done it intentionally myself....sorry but I use .mp4 for most of my vids when I even decide to take the time.
    No worries. I don't expect anyone to know the technical details. .mp4 is a container extension for h.264/x264 video so what you use for your videos is exactly what we test. We test 3 simple scenarios that anyone may use his pc for:
    a) manipulating photos
    b) converting a dvd into mp4
    c) compressing a large directory tree while watching a 1920x1080 mp4 file

    They are all very very real average joe scenarios and the scores are absolutely representative of a PC's performance if anyone decided to do any of those common (but heavy) tasks.

    We will add OpenCL test though on version 2 (which is what you were referring to earlier when you were talking about GPU computing on Adobe products etc). Have in mind though that this will not give any edge to the AMD platform as that depends on the video cards (AMD/nVidia) and "adds up" to the already established performance of the CPU/RAM/platform.
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  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaemonCantor View Post
    Thank You all for the answers, I now understand. Nodens , you programed RB to only use the CPU and that's a great idea but in this scenario AMD is always going to lag behind due to some of the Special Instruction Set's that Intel has versus what AMD has plus the other things like AMD's instance on putting all possible Parallel Data Crunching on the GPU instead of the CPU with it's CPU Vector Extensions. A good example would be Programs like Adobe Photoshop, Daz Pozer AutoCad where with AMD CPU's in conjunction with their GPU's get a MAJOR Speed Boost by using GPGPU processing. AMD has been pushing this since back in the HD4xxx day's using extensions like AMD Transcoding for starters and here over the last few years using Tech from the APU's.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you did a Bad job but you did a Great Job, it's just in the real World due to AMD's Drivers the average person won't see much of a Difference because of two things, A) they not going to get into heavy OC'n like most here and don't really Care, and B) with AMD's Drivers utilizing the GPU a lot more than what this bench utilizes will bering them a Lot Closer to the Intel side.

    If I'm wrong I apologize in advance and please take the time and update me but how I see it is what will Joe Avaerge that's looking at let's say fixing up his Facebook Page or Watching Hulu or any of the Real things he does in an average 2hours before going to bed after a Long Day's Work see's things. Truthfully I don't know anybody the encodes H.264 streams on a baisis enough to even warrent the tag of Very Occasionally...I have never done it intentionally myself....sorry but I use .mp4 for most of my vids when I even decide to take the time.

    I think Realbench is pretty close to realworld, other than the overclocking. It demonstrates the lacking ability of AMD processors. Yes, some apps in the bench maybe optimized for Intel, but they are 'realworld' apps that people use everyday. So I dont see why there could be an issue.

    Not to get in a pissing match, but I see AMD CPUs as budget, not performance. Yes, an AMD CPU can shine over an Intel, but the instances are far and few between. There are very suitable applications for an AMD processor. High performance and the ability to squash benchmarks arent on the list in my opinion. If you want shear power, well, you know where to look.


    And guys, the new leaderboard layout is tits.
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  8. #688
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanrigger View Post
    Yes, some apps in the bench maybe optimized for Intel, but they are 'realworld' apps that people use everyday. So I dont see why there could be an issue.
    Thing is that they are not actually optimized for Intel. They are just heavily multithreaded. That can not be considered an optimization by any means. There is absolutely no Intel-biased optimization in the applications used.

    Not to get in a pissing match, but I see AMD CPUs as budget, not performance. Yes, an AMD CPU can shine over an Intel, but the instances are far and few between. There are very suitable applications for an AMD processor. High performance and the ability to squash benchmarks arent on the list in my opinion. If you want shear power, well, you know where to look.
    On single threaded stuff AMD can more than compete. But all these are beyond the scope here. We're measuring performance of real usage scenarios. If one platform performs better than another in these scenarios there's nothing more to say about it. There are no optimizations though.

    This is not AMD vs Intel or anything of the sort so lets keep it that way.
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  9. #689
    ROG Guru: Grand Master Array HiVizMan's Avatar
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    Is tits good or is tits bad?

    Look when I was in my 20's tits was really good. But now I find them just a distraction and try not to bother to much so help an older person out will you.
    To help us help you - please provide as much information about your system and the problem as possible.

  10. #690
    Shut Up Stupid! Array DaemonCantor's Avatar
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    Thank You Nodens for taking the time, I really appreciate it. Most of what I know is a little bit out of date apparently because I was reading on Newegg as of today and they were listing off AVX instructions on the 1155, 2011, and the new 1150 series chips but listed here for AMD: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldo...FX-Series.html, which shows None of the AMD all the way upto the Bulldozer have them plus with a little further digging the Core2Quad had them but not the Core2Duo. All this means is the Intel CPUs dating back to around 2006/2007 has had these AVX Extentions but AMD systems didn't until 2010 which is making the gap even wider.

    I apologize if I seem like I'm arguing but really I'm trying to understand and for me it's a war in my head to get it all straight...Getting back to this the scores are going to squew toward Intel no matter what on any AMD CPU below the Bulldozer due to the lack of AVX. am I close to correct?

    Now if AMD would get back to what they are supposed to do instead of using Tech that's over 4yrs old and come out with new maybe they can get back into the game.

    Once again Nodens thank you for taking the time.

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