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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiVizMan View Post
    I too would be happy to see some AMD love, but it is all about economics. People buy products that they perceive to be the better performance products at certain price points. Now we all know that certain benchmarks are skewed hugely in favour or Intel, but, and this is a big but the ROG Realbench that Nodens developed is based on real world stuff. It is not purpose built code for the benchmarks, that application takes real world applications and integrates them within a wrapper. Now go have a look at the league table. AMD is brining up the rear. I wish it was not so but it is. Image rendering, medie encoding stuff like that which we do day in and day out on our systems are used in the Realbench.

    So the point of the thing is this, until as such time that AMD has comparable or competitive products to those that Intel produce there will not be the market forces to warrant the huge R&D expenses. The cost of producing a ROG board is not the same as the cost of producing a channel board which simply follows the specification for the chipset. It costs heaps of money. It is about making a profit, about surviving in a ever harder market. Return of investment.

    Even the software that we all thing should be easily translated to other platforms is not as simple, we are talking radically and in some cases diametrically opposite engineering directions between the two platforms, Intel and AMD. The software has to interact with the hardware, and as more and more of the control of the hardware is located on the CPU more and more specific work has to be done on each platform. The stuff is not even backward compatible with the last two generations of Intel product so how is it going to be ported to the AMD side.

    I truly wish it was otherwise, I really do.
    I have to ask this since you brought it up.

    Are you saying that ASUS chooses it R&D path and Production path based on the ROG Forum League Table?
    I ask because that would make no sense and be way off from the normal business practices.
    If it is just an example to show that they do R&D and Production based on performance then I can understand but it points out a bit of a flaw in my opinion. The reason being is that the Sales figures of products is what normally drives R&D and Production within companies. AMD may not be leading in performance all the time but its sales figures are very good. To me some Thread that post a list of Benchmarks from some Benchmark software should in no way justify what the true numbers of a certain products success should be. I hope you do not find that rude or anything, it is just how I feel.




    In any case I can understand the software side of things not being able to be developed between Intel and AMD, but what I am wondering about is why things like Thermal Armor are not being used for AMD and why there is not more of a selection of AMD motherboards to choose from. A lot of people choose AMD CPU's over Intel. These people would love to have more of a selection. Like for example more MicroATX form factor mobos for AM3+. Or say different boards that have various features that complements what AMD supports and what the customer is looking to get out of it. It is just like Intel with its various amounts features that they support and how there boards have various selections of such features. For example the amount USB 3.0 ports, which chipset is used, placement of Fan connections, and so on. Even down the the Color Scheme and look of the heatsinks.

    Right now ASUS only has two Tuf and two are ROG mobos that use AMD which are listed in there products listings on there site. The rest of the Tuf and ROG mobos are Intel.
    In fact ASUS only has 33 boards total for AMD and for Intel boards they have 89 listed. They really do give a good variation of choices for Intel compared to what we have to select from with AMD. I can understand Intel have more of a selection but still the amount of AMD users out there already warrants more of a selection of mobos for them. Especially when it comes to Tuf and ROG mobos. The sales figures of such AMD CPU's should be proof of that. At least that is how I see it.

    Also things like the Thermal armor is a hardware design that has been R&D'ed and proven. Limiting things like the Thermal Armor to one brand makes no sense.


    You know you said
    People buy products that they perceive to be the better performance products at certain price points.
    Well that is the very reason why People choose AMD in the first place. Good performance at a good price point. There buisness model does very well. And there sales are well more than enough to justify designing more products for them. I just hope that ASUS will start giving AMD more focus so that those of use that decide to use AMD CPU's can have a better selection. Right now ASUS has a nice selection of boards with various looks, layouts, and features for Intel, but for AMD it is just not as much as I would hope. Right our AMD selection is very slim in my opinion and with the new mobos coming out it does not look like much as well. I just hope that we will get more love.

  2. #12
    imMortal Kombatant Array Myk SilentShadow PC Specs
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    In no way did HiVizMan state that R&D is based off of Realbench and it couldn't be, since the software has only been available for a couple weeks now

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Grand Master Array HiVizMan's Avatar
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    WarBNull sorry mate I think my words may have been a bit clumsy, no the R&D paths have nothing at all to do with the Realbench league. I merely mention the league table as an easily accessible example of the difference between AMD and Intel as it currently stands - specifically as Realbench uses real world applications as part of its test. There are many factors that influence the amount of, and direction of R&D that any company invests into a particular product range. You are quite correct in that sales and profitability that comes with a higher volume or sales will always be the key driver in R&D spend.

    At the end of the day the numbers tell all, and the bulk of motherboards sold outside of OEM are not AMD. AMD have the best APU (on board graphics) and those systems are selling like crazy for OEM builds in the corporate as workstations. Server segment is huge AMD so for sure AMD is doing well, but not in the enthusiast market. ROG is the enthusiast market.
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  4. #14
    AntiMatter Guru ROG Array chrsplmr's Avatar
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    My only wonderment is when did enthusiast come to mean 'Only' benching .. and Not Gaming ?? ummm Republic of 'Gamers' ???
    Not to be argumentative but ... ??? Isn't ROG Gamers/Benchers/both imply performance ?? Just say'n.

    That's not to say that many of non-ROG boards -- shudder -- aren't 'game' ready. et.c.
    Last edited by chrsplmr; 06-28-2013 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #15
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    HiVizMan
    That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

    chrsplmr
    Not sure how everyone clarifies Enthusiast but to me in the past it did mean those that like to do benching, but at some point the term became associated with high end and/or hardcore gamers. Personally Gamers in general is a very diverse group that it really should not be used for them. Some are just so casual that they do not need the high end hardware like others desire. Then there are those that do not OC at all where others do. Like you I would prefer to stick with those that do Benching as Enthusiast. It is just easier.




    I personally think that AMD is doing better than many think when it comes to the gaming market. I know many, many, gamers that use AMD. A ton of my friends in BF and other games use AMD. I will not deny that I do notice that there are more Intel mobos being used than AMD, but still there are a ton of AMD gamers out there that I have seen in the gaming communities. This is mainly from reading the threads and seeing people talk about subjects where there systems may be mentioned. It shows that a lot use AMD. Maybe one day it will grow to a point where they can be acknowledged better than they currently are.


    On a side note: There is less of a gap between AMD and Nvidia GPU's than there is between AMD and Intel mobo's. AMD is doing better in its GPU market than it is in its Mobo market when it comes to gaming. Thankfully.

  6. #16
    AntiMatter Guru ROG Array chrsplmr's Avatar
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    Yes and it sounds better than Republic of Benchers / ROB. or Republic of OverClockers / ROOC. or ~shudder~ Republic of Enthusiasts / ROE.

    I was just pointing out that AMD has Game and deserves to wear the Black and Red.
    After all can Any Intel beat Every AMD ??? hahhaa and those that can't, are they 'locked out' of use in ROG intel boards ???
    Just say'n. Its a moot point really, what is done is done.
    And as brother WarbNull points out there are far more Gamers than hardCore Benching OverClockers. To shut out an entire segment
    is to limit the funds produced for additional R&D of the top end, but then wasn't that why it was named ROG in the first place? imho.

    Are some of the Gseries laptops then at risk of being dropped ??? I thought not.c.
    Last edited by chrsplmr; 06-28-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  7. #17
    ROG Guru: Grand Master Array HiVizMan's Avatar
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    Gamers = Enthusiasts in my view. Overclockers and benchers make up a very small percentage of the market. The Extreme range is the board targeted at the Extreme section of that group, and I do not know of any gamers that play on LN2.
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  8. #18
    AntiMatter Guru ROG Array chrsplmr's Avatar
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    hhahaha .. exactly HiViz .. [but I was glued to the live video feeds, especially the helium .. yikes.]

    and have 'we' all seen this ??? [don't forget to vistit the home page once in a while]

    Immense! 8GHz Overclocked A10-6800K On F2A85-V Pro By Stilt

    Overclocker Stilt from Finland cracked an incredible 8GHz on the new A10-6800K AMD ‘Richland’ APU, with all fours active using the ASUS F2A85-V Pro motherboard and liquid nitrogen cooling. Wow! If you’ve seen pictures of the setup, we’d love to see them.
    See the CPU validation and HWBot submission for more details.




  9. #19
    Shut Up Stupid! Array DaemonCantor's Avatar
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    Thank You chrsplmr for informing me of this discussion. As understand what has been said, HiViz is correct to a point, that being OC'in is also a game to the Nerds and Geeks but several points I have stated over the last TWO YEARS that I've been on these here forums keeps coming up but I'll bet nobodies got the Kahunas to admit to that! R. O. G. does stand for Republic of Gamers but Asus/ROG Forums only will look at the Over Clockers as Enthusiast/Gamer Breed thus their Product line here is only geared to that end and other Gamers is only an Afterthought, but the Prof is in the Mix as they say....Take a little bit of time and look back thru all of the threads here in just the AMD Forums and you'll see very fast that I'm correct.

    Now on to the Diversity of the R. O. G. Brand and How Many Intel R. O. G. Boards are there versus JUST 1, "Uno", 'Single'...AMD Board (the Crosshair V Formula-Z). Not surprising since Asus RnD is only concerned with Performance which only a few years ago it was about Innovation! I remember an artical in CPU(Computer Power User) Magazine where Asus wasted the time to build an ASTONISHING Video Card that used '3' Mobile ATI GPU's and an Elaborate Water Cooling system with internal CrossfireX but never sent it to Market! I personally would have Killed for one of those at the time because it Kicked the S**t out of the GT280 at the time!

    My summation is Asus Doesn't give a DAm about the AMD User and are putting all efforts to the Intel User because as they put it 'That's Where the Money Is!'. Yes Asus could easily put Thermal Armor on the AMD line or add a MPCIE with the option of a Bluetooth and Micro SDD like on the Intel Line or even that new fangled Fusion Heat System with out hardly any R&D or cost but to make an mATX that would involve re-branding a Current Non-ROG Mobo to the ROG status and some work remaking the BIOS plus adding ROG Connect to it, that could cost.

    Yes Asus could do a HELL of a LOT MORE for us AMD users but they are not going to lift a finger to do it because it's not Cost Effective, even though they might get more Sales which would equal more Profit but that's not even a concern for the Biggest Intel Biased Manufacturer on the Planet.

    P.S. I'll bet most people won't even read what I typed here or even care to try to read it. No I wasn't Rebuking, Flaming or Arguing with anyone in this thread but just Presented My Personal Opinion of which Asus and or any users/Mods/Admins may or may not Support(BTW I don't give a Dam if they do or don't).

    Sincerely DaemonCantor

  10. #20
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    I read your post, and I liked it. You pretty much expressed how I am currently feeling about ASUS right now when it comes to AMD.

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