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Xenofin · ‎08-19-2013

Hi!

I don't quite understand how adaptive offset voltage setting is done in AI Suite III TPU page. You can find 'Offset Voltage' setting and the 'OC Voltage' setting there (with field "default" and field "offset"). In Bios there is 'Offset Voltage' setting and 'Offset Voltage Turbo Mode' setting which actually is not shown in AI Suite TPU page (development proposal for next version perhaps).

Could someone wiser tell me what is the purpose of AI Suite's 'OC Voltage' setting? I could find out that if I replace 'default' with max. voltage shown by CPU-Z at core ratio 39, i.e. 1.183V with my 4770K CPU then at turbo mode (ratio 44) this voltage is summed up with offset voltage (as is shown with graphics). This method, however is different from bios where you don't set a fixed voltage + Offset. Any particular reason for different type of parameter settings?

The above is valid also for Cache Adaptive Voltage setting.

PS. Bug report: I used this fixed voltage + offset method with AI Suite and it messed up my core ratio setting. I had set ratio to 44 in Bios but after changing OC Voltage in AI Suite this ratio was suddenly set at 39 (read by CPU-Z). I changed ratio to 43 in AI Suite and CPU-Z showed the same value. I set ratio to 42 and CPU-Z showed 42. I could not raise ratio anymore through AI Suite; AI Suite shows ratio 44 but CPU-Z shows ratio 42 during full load of the CPU. I have to reboot the PC in order to get ratio back to value set in Bios.

Praz · ‎08-19-2013

Really no need to use offset with adaptive. Key in your desired loaded VCORE in the turbo field under adaptive in the UEFI. If you feel the need to adjust the turbo voltage from within the operating system use TurboV instead of AI Suite if it available for your motherboard.

Xenofin · ‎08-19-2013

Thank you Praz,

I thought I had understood something wrong with this Adaptive Offset Voltage setting.

Curious though that if I set Offset voltage to 0.05V and Additional Turbo Core Voltage to 0.05V then Bios Uefi informs total Adaptive Offset Voltage is 0.1V. This, however is not true as far as CPU-Z/AIDA64/HWMonitor shows for core voltage in full CPU load. They only show that Offset voltage is effectively added to CPU core voltage (1.183+0.05V + LLC? = 1.232 - 1.248V, ratio 44).

I played a little with Additional Turbo Mode Core Voltage setting and I could not see any effect on final CPU core voltage, according to CPU-Z. I changed it from 0 to 0.05V and followed CPU-Z reading during full load.

I have M6H so unfortunately TurboV is not supplied with this motherboard.

Praz · ‎08-19-2013

Xenofin wrote:
Curious though that if I set Offset voltage to 0.05V and Additional Turbo Core Voltage to 0.05V then Bios Uefi informs total Adaptive Offset Voltage is 0.1V.

As I wrote above you need to enter the desired loaded VCORE in the turbo field. If you want 1.232V than that is what you would key in for the Turbo voltage.

Xenofin · ‎08-20-2013

I stand corrected, thanks Praz. You were very helpful.

In Bios, though, setting is ' Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage' (limits 0.001....0.1920V according to manual) where I have set e.g 0.08V resulting effective CPU voltage 1.264V in my case. And this has helped me, I have run now multiple times HyperPi32M without BSODs or uncontrolled reboots. I'm not using AI Suite III for setting the voltage; I lost my trust for some extent and only use it for monitoring for the moment.

HiVizMan · ‎08-20-2013

The AISuiteIII software is much improved over the previous version which I was one of the most vocal critics of. I even use the AIsuite now but the trick is not to use anything else at the same time. One application for monitoring only.

To help us help you - please provide as much information about your system and the problem as possible.

Xenofin · ‎08-20-2013

Yes I have noticed it. I only use AIDA and CPU-Z from which I have experience not to disturb AI Suite.

But let me to return to this Adaptive CPU Voltage tuning (I ask patient here 🙂 😞
I have now played with it quite extensively and noticed that there is no clear method of setting voltages through Bios. I HAVE to use Offset voltage, otherwise I can't boot into Windows with CPU core ratio 44 (which requires higher voltage for CPU core than AUTO setting gives during boot phase). At the same time if Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage is set, this is summed with Offset Voltage BUT IS NOT SHOWN in AI Suite III at all. So, if I use AI Suite OC Voltage setting ONLY, what happens when and if AI Suite crashes (this has happened to me few times) . Voltage settings made through AI Suite are not saved into Bios, so if I boot PC for some reason then Bios settings are used in boot phase and result is BSOD.
I like AI Suite but do not have full trust on it when dealing with voltage settings. I know quite well what my CPU is capable to do with Manual mode but I really would like to make all the settings in Bios.

A very awkward way of having two different methods for Adaptive CPU voltage tuning, IMHO. You have to use a mix of both to be sure that your PC is working properly. I would like to have all the power saving benefits I could get when my PC is not loaded fully.

Anyhow, Adaptive Voltage Tuning mode requires more work than just with Manual mode and I accept that. I just hope ASUS could give more specific guide for it; manual and even ROG OC Guide does not help much.

Praz · ‎08-20-2013

Turbo voltage under the adaptive option only applies that set voltage when the CPU multiplier is at or above the stock turbo value. When booting into the operating system the multiplier will momentarily be at the selected max value. If the system fails to boot with turbo voltage only the cause is an improperly set voltage for the multiplier being used. Again, there is no need to use offset with adaptive with one exception. That is the desire to undervolt the CPU throughout it's normal non-turbo speed range. Doing this can open a whole new can of worms though. Both because of the possibility of system instability at idle and at the voltage transition from non-turbo to turbo multipliers.

Xenofin · ‎08-20-2013

OK, I tested now CPU Level Up function with 4.4 GHz in Bios to see what settings I get and how they are shown in AI Suite III. The result in UEFI Bios:
- CPU core ratio for all cores [44] i.e. Sync Cores
- Min/Max Cache ratio [auto] (39 in AI Suite)
- CPU Core Voltage [auto]
- CPU Cache Voltage [auto]
Successful boot into Windows.

No offset, no Adaptive Mode selected or shown in Bios. If I select Adaptive Mode without setting any voltage values elsewhere in Bios (they are at Auto) after CPU Level Up function has set all above mentioned parameters -> BSOD. What explains this?

In AI Suite III I can see that Adaptive Mode is selected and OC Voltage is set to 1.25V, no offset. Cache Voltage is at default i.e. [auto], no offset, no adaptive mode selected. Boot up into Windows was successful. This OC Voltage -value is EXACTLY same what I found manually to be the minimum required voltage with this 44 core ratio for this CPU. My CPU with all settings at default gets 1.183V max. for core voltage during 100% load for all cores. So, I assumed that by setting 0.07V for Additional Turbo Core Voltage in Bios I could get the same result (1.183V + 0.07V = 1.253V) with Turbo ratios over stock, Offset Voltage is at [Auto]. Result was a total failure as I told above in my earlier post -> BSOD right after logging into Windows.

So, what is wrong here in my opinion? CPU Level Up function in Bios sets parameter values in Bios in a way that is not in line with the settings I can see in AI Suite III (especially that Adaptive Mode setting is shown/functions differently). I know that 4-Way Optimization in AI Suite III saves resulting settings in Bios. I have tried it once and the result was successful for 4.4GHz tuning.
Now I'm just a little confused. For me my trials seem to prove that in Bios you really can't use Adaptive Mode with ease (or at all) and its better to use AI Suite III for that Mode.

Sorry for this long post and thank you for your patience.

Raja · ‎08-20-2013

The base VID scales with the multiplier ratio so you may need to add more or less voltage depending upon how the PCU in your CPU changes the base VID with various CPU multiplier ratios. You are probably thinking about this way more than you should be. Use UEFI to set adaptive voltage only and add or subtract voltage at 4.4GHz to find stability - that is all one needs to do. Granted it's not as easy as people would like, but that's how the CPUs work. Use CPU-Z to monitor the voltage under load.

AI SUite III - CPU/Cache Adaptive Offset Voltage setting vs. Bios works differently?