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Thread: What is LINUX?

  1. #101
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    @Marco, I thought I should weigh in on this issue. I think we are discussing two different things, from two different workloads. BSD has certain advantages, and LINUX has certain advantages. It all depends on what you are trying to do with your system. Just like the discussion about DirectX vs OpenGL, Carmack is weighing in as a user, whose loyalty depends on the quality of each competitor. There are advantages to both systems, and depending on your background, you can lean one way or another.
    Currently the only advantage DX has is it's major flaw. That is conformity. The lack of extensions makes it easy to have a uniform API. But you know the other side of that knife as well

    @Nodens, LLVM / Clang has gotten a whole lot better in the last few years, their rate of development is actually quite impressive. There are benchmarks that indicate that it can generate "faster" code than GCC, but it depends on compiler flags and particular systems, so its not much of an advantage. As you know, hand-optimized assembly is faster still.
    I am aware of that. But you know that there's no support for LLVM/Clang anywhere outside BSD. Code is not optimized for it, you won't even find projects with something as simple a CMAKE profile for it. And you certainly know what happens when you optimize your code for a toolchain and the next toolchain doesn't like your optimizations

    I'm not saying LLVM/Clang is bad. I'm saying it's not supported by anything and cutting off the GCC toolchain when it's the defacto standard on these OS platforms is bad for the OS. It will have people jumping through hoops to get stuff build on BSD..


    @Marco, @Nodens point about the licenses are also valid, GPL protects the open source community, and that's why it's so lengthy. BSD does not. If you prefer your work to be usable and proprietizable (<- ?new word? ), the BSD license allows that. The GPL does not. However, @Nodens, there is the LGPL, which is designed to protect code that calls a GPL library, so any changes to the library itself must be released, but not the code that calls said library. In my opinion, each of these licenses has a place. LINUX, last I checked is under GPL v2, because Linus Torvaalds said that there are too many people involved in the LINUX system now that he would have to clear a change to v3 with. He decided to stick to v2 for the time being.
    Yeah Zygomorphic I'm aware of LGPL of course. The Qt framework I'm using for RealBench is licensed under LGPL which allows me to code a closed source application as long as I don't statically link the libraries. LGPL is for libraries indeed and I did not mention it because I thought it was irrelevant. Marco does not even understand the differences between the classic licenses and claims the BSD license is better because it's 2 lines after I explain the difference to him...Go figure..I think mentioning the LGPL would be rather overkill..

    As to BSD on the desktop, I can't judge. If more hardware drivers get written, then yes, it could be done. Apple has proved that BSD-derivatives can be used as consumer OS's, at least for limited sets of specific hardware. For the masses of other systems, we can't say at present. Windows manages it, and so does LINUX. BSD could do it, if the developers have the resources - and think it important.
    Exactly. Without support for cutting edge hardware you can't talk about BSD on desktop at all. And I don't see that happening any time soon.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    I am aware of that. But you know that there's no support for LLVM/Clang anywhere outside BSD.
    Good, keep it that way !

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    I'm not saying LLVM/Clang is bad. I'm saying it's not supported by anything and cutting off the GCC toolchain when it's the defacto standard on these OS platforms is bad for the OS. It will have people jumping through hoops to get stuff build on BSD..
    openbenchmarking.org#CompilerDeathMatch(6+4+4+4)x-64bit

    I was not intend to nuke the thread, i posted before, question answered ... all these distros and stuff are personal preferences and usage, maybe i don't enjoy playing on my system, but i have Sabayon 13.01 on DVD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco^^ View Post
    Good, keep it that way !



    openbenchmarking.org#CompilerDeathMatch(6+4+4+4)x-64bit

    I was not intend to nuke the thread, i posted before, question answered ... all these distros and stuff are personal preferences and usage, maybe i don't enjoy playing on my system, but i have Sabayon 13.01 on DVD
    It all has to do with your workload. Some want a very particular optimized system, such as Gentoo. Others just want something that works. Me, I have VMs so that I can have everything. Base OS is one that just works. Actually, having competition in the toolchain could provide for some improved results, so everyone will win!
    I am disturbed because I cannot break my system...found out there were others trying to cope! We have a support group on here, if your system will not break, please join!
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    LINUX Users, we have a group!
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  4. #104
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    The above is just a bad comparison that shows nothing really. It is just a test of compilation duration on specific hardware with specific flags and specific projects. The most important thing though is not compilation duration but how fast is the produced code (or how big for some particular case usage --eg embedded) and how the toolchain treats specific coding practices that would necessitate changes in code or preprocessor directives that modify code for said toolchain in order to avoid problems.

    That said, competition doesn't necessarily work better in the FOSS world because there's no money making incentive driving people to perform better than the competition (Competition is a necessity of capitalism but FOSS does not operate on these structures..as an analogue it's closer to theoretical anarchy, in which, competition does more bad than good as instead of having everyone working together for a common goal, for the greater good (as is needed for the theoretical system to work), you have strife and wasted resources in duplicating the same work plus mediation, politics, etc).
    If you have a new technology or technique in mind you can always add it to the existing project. If the project won't accept it because of different ideology/dogma then they won't adopt it even if you add it to a competing project. Imo, the only valid reason for duplicate purpose projects and forks in the FOSS world is just that, differences in ideology.
    Last edited by Nodens; 01-31-2014 at 10:48 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    The above is just a bad comparison that shows nothing really. It is just a test of compilation duration on specific hardware with specific flags and specific projects. The most important thing though is not compilation duration but how fast is the produced code (or how big for some particular case usage --eg embedded) and how the toolchain treats specific coding practices that would necessitate changes in code or preprocessor directives that modify code for said toolchain in order to avoid problems.

    That said, competition doesn't necessarily work better in the FOSS world because there's no money making incentive driving people to perform better than the competition (Competition is a necessity of capitalism but FOSS does not operate on these structures..as an analogue it's closer to theoretical anarchy, in which, competition does more bad than good as instead of having everyone working together for a common goal, for the greater good (as is needed for the theoretical system to work), you have strife and wasted resources in duplicating the same work plus mediation, politics, etc).
    If you have a new technology or technique in mind you can always add it to the existing project. If the project won't accept it because of different ideology/dogma then they won't adopt it even if you add it to a competing project. Imo, the only valid reason for duplicate purpose projects and forks in the FOSS world is just that, differences in ideology.
    Yeah, good points. Compilation time is important, but not as the final code. We can all agree on this, I'm sure.

    As to competition, I hadn't thought about it that way. Better to unify everything as much as possible, to provide a unified front against the likes of MS.
    I am disturbed because I cannot break my system...found out there were others trying to cope! We have a support group on here, if your system will not break, please join!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=16
    We now have 178 people whose systems will not break! Yippee!
    LINUX Users, we have a group!
    http://rog.asus.com/forum/group.php?groupid=23

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zygomorphic View Post
    Better to unify everything as much as possible, to provide a unified front against the likes of MS.
    Yes, Linux in general could and should be doing so much better. It's all very well having a Happy Hippy Geeky OS but someone needs to give it some lead and direction at some point if it is going to be a successful OS. if no one is bothered then let the Peoples Front of Judea keep fighting the Judean Peoples Front...

  7. #107
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    Linux is a combination of Linus Torvalds’s Linux kernel and other programs to make it an open source operating system which was designed for personal computer users at a very low cost or even free. The heart of Linux called Linux kernel, created by Linus Torvalds when he was a student at the University of Helsinki in 1991. Linus Torvalds or Linus Benedict Torvalds, a software engineer now is the Linux kernel project’s coordinator. http://namhuy.net/3176/what-is-linux.html

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanca Higgins View Post
    Linux is a combination of Linus Torvalds’s Linux kernel and other programs to make it an open source operating system which was designed for personal computer users at a very low cost or even free. The heart of Linux called Linux kernel, created by Linus Torvalds when he was a student at the University of Helsinki in 1991. Linus Torvalds or Linus Benedict Torvalds, a software engineer now is the Linux kernel project’s coordinator. http://namhuy.net/3176/what-is-linux.html
    Yup, Linux was built around the Unix variant Minix. Torvalds' initial name for it was Phreix, an amalgamation of the words phreak and Minix...but the guy who hosted the initial build online, didn't like the name, so he suggested Linux to Linus...hopefully it's pretty clear what 2 words were used to make Linux

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