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  1. #61
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Laptop (Model)ASUS GL702VW-GC004T
    MotherboardRampage V Extreme Edition 10
    ProcessorIntel 3930K C2
    Memory (part number)CMZ16GX3M4X2133C11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlyharmless View Post
    ..and speaking of documentation, does anyone know if the latest Rampage IV Extreme BIOS 4701 has vt-d in it? That is the kind of simple information it would be nice to have; I assume since it's not noted on the copious documentation "Improve system stability." that it is not included.
    Not for IB-E chips. I believe the next release 48xx will have the fix.


    That said we really need to distinguish terminology here. By tech support when we refer to a sold motherboard we are talking about the ability of any single end user to call and say for example: "Hey, I just installed this motherboard but my NIC is not working" In which case tech support will troubleshoot the issue for them in the operating system. They will guide them on how to install the driver and help the user troubleshoot in the OS. For this purpose alone the only supported OS by any OEM on the consumer PC market is the one advertised for the boards, Windows.

    This is the definition and limit of OEM "tech support" in regards to any OEM's board or prebuilt OEM system. No one with provide tech support for anything other than Windows. So when user calls and says: "Hey I installed CentOS but my NIC is not working". They will be met with the answer that "Linux is not supported". Which means we don't have trained personnel to troubleshoot any issue under Linux and we don't care about doing so. This you will find is the standard not only with ASUS but with any other OEM in the indtustry which deals with this particular market.

    Now for the sake of disambiguation. "Linux supported on the hardware" is another thing entirely. Any OS support for the hardware falls under the OS and driver developers (license holders). What this means. The chipset, for example is X79, and SB-E CPUs. In order for it to be supported under Linux (notice we're not talking tech support by the OEM anymore..we're talking OS support of the hardware), Linux kernel and driver developers have to support it. In most cases the license holders (Intel in our example) themselves provide sources or precompiled binary drivers in order to implement support of the hardware in the OS. In other cases drivers are being developed via reverse engineering Windows drivers by really dedicated users. So when we say that Windows is supported on x-y-z motherboard we're actually talking on if Microsoft and hardware license holders are providing driver support for it. In the case of Linux, we're talking on if Linux kernel developers, hardware license holders or third parties provide support for it. In case of a Windows-only bug with your hardware, you contact Microsoft about it or the hardware license holder (maker of the driver eg Intel) about it (and good luck with that unless it's something major ). In case of Linux-only bug, you post it on the distro's or package's bugtrack and wait for developers to reproduce and fix, or dig in the sources and fix it yourself. Unless it's a proprietary closed source driver (eg Nvidia), in which case you again report to the license holder (Nvidia) and wait for a fix (That's why the Linux community dislikes closed source/proprietary drivers--which always flag the kernel as tainted as their effect are beyond the kernel developers' control).

    So in order to sum it up and get our stuff straight:
    a) End user tech support for anything related to Linux is non-existent in the consumer PC market. Globally.
    b) Support of hardware under any OS falls under to the developers of the OS and drivers.

    So do not try to use an OEM's end user tech support to troubleshoot an issue under any OS other than Windows. Always directly report a bug if there is one. And always provide a reproducible Windows based case of said bug unless it involves a hardware feature that is not available under Windows in the first place (eg VT-d..this is what makes the bug reports tricky on this particular subject. But if you do a direct bug report that states exactly what's wrong (eg broken DMAR on specific UEFI/BIOS version) they should fix it unless the product has reached end of life). Don't do this just for ASUS. Do it for all of them. Because there is no difference on how end user tech support reacts when they hear about Linux in this market. Bottomlime is, don't ask for help regarding Linux. Ask to have a firmware bug fixed instead.

    EDIT:
    PS. Regarding UEFI/BIOS changelogs. Heh most of them say improved system stability because there are patents etc that prevent complete listing of a proper changelog. ASUS is notorious for "Improved system stability" changelogs. And before you ask about it, several people have petitioned for more detailed changelogs in the past (including myself) but the only thing we managed, is to get an extra line or two on the changelogs where possible instead of plain "Improved System Stabilty". For this reason I usually do inspection of the firmware images myself for the RIVE boards and share any identifiable components or rough estimation of EFI modules changed. Still I'd take this any day (having to inspect and taking the time to share with the community) if the alternative is full changelogs for crappy firmware (which seems to be the case imo).
    Last edited by Nodens; 12-24-2013 at 02:18 AM.
    RAMPAGE Windows 8/7 UEFI Installation Guide - Patched OROM for TRIM in RAID - Patched UEFI GOP Updater Tool - ASUS OEM License Restorer
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  2. #62
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    Any updates about IOMMU yet?

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    No news ?

  4. #64
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    You guys realise that a beta bios has been posted on the third page of this thread?
    It enables VT-d on the RIVE for IVB-E.
    Unless you are waiting for the final release of course, no idea sorry.

  5. #65
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    Does that Beta Bios count for the RIVE Black Edition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafste View Post
    You guys realise that a beta bios has been posted on the third page of this thread?
    It enables VT-d on the RIVE for IVB-E.
    Unless you are waiting for the final release of course, no idea sorry.
    You guy realise that i use a Rampage IV Gene and a Rampage IV Black Edition without any beta bios ?

  7. #67
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    Anyone from ASUS available to comment on the Rampage IV Black Edition Bios? Have a 4960X with 64GB of RAM, with no IOMMU support.

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    ASUS North America commented on your post.
    ASUS North America wrote: "Hi Angus, VT-d support has not been implemented yet, but we have plans to include it in a future UEFI build."

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by achchan View Post
    ASUS North America commented on your post.
    ASUS North America wrote: "Hi Angus, VT-d support has not been implemented yet, but we have plans to include it in a future UEFI build."
    Hello and happy new year,

    do you know if it will be a week(s) or month(s) question ?

    What about the Rampage IV Gene ?

    Thanks for your attention, have a nice day.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praz View Post
    More misunderstanding on your part. The part of your post I responded to I had quoted. I wouldn't think there would be any need for speculation as to what as to what my reply was referencing. Nowhere did I state that ASUS would not properly support VT-d or features above and beyond what the motherboard is advertised as supporting. In fact I feel fixing the IB-E VT-d issue should be a high priority even if this being broke was unforeseen.

    My reply was strictly in reference to your unfounded assumption that the purchase price of a product legally guarantees you rights above and beyond what is contractually binding between you and the manufacturer of the product. There is nobody restricting you from installing any operating system you wish. If you choose to do so then the support falls on you. A better example of your car analogy Is buying a high performance car that states 103 octane fuel is required but because it is too expensive you use 83 octane. When you burn the valves out the repair will be out of your pocket not the manufacturer.

    To think that any mainstream motherboard manufacturer is going to offer blanket Linux support is shortsighted at best. Linux is a total mess from the support side. Even most enterprise entities that manufacture products supporting Linux are very clear not only on the distros supported but the builds. Outside of these listed operating systems you may be limping along for a long time before an issue is resolved. There is no harm in wanting or wishing for something but like most things they needs to be grounded in reality. But all too often the only reality is that which is in the customer's mind.
    Thanks for clarifying your response.

    So Asus will or does support advertised features. And if it's broke it will get fixed. The point is, Asus doesn't mention VT-d in the Sabertooth X79 nor in the RIVE manual, even not in it's latest version. VT-d is nowhere mentioned in the specs. The only place I saw VT-d mentioned was in a BIOS release note.
    This whole thread is about Asus making an effort to get VT-d working with Ivybridge processors. I'm sure there are some people who appreciate that, me included.
    Now please try to understand my problem: People are asking me which motherboards I can recommend for VGA / PCI passthrough, which requires VT-d / IOMMU. I really would want to include Asus (followed by a specific list of motherboard models and BIOS releases), but none of the Asus documentation and specs - perhaps aside from a BIOS release note - indicate that Asus indeed supports that feature.

    Nodens reply has come close to answering this question, except the missing BIOS release information.

    Of course it would help if Asus itself would include that information in their technical specs and/or in the manual. As it is now, VT-d on my Sabertooth X79 board is actually a "bug" (= undocumented feature) - it's nowhere listed in the manual but it does appear on the BIOS screen.

    I think there is a misunderstanding about the word "support". I do not expect Asus (or most other vendors) to support Linux in the sense that Asus offers a user hotline for Linux OS issues.

    However, I do expect Asus (and other vendors) to Q/A their boards with Linux as well. At the very least, I do expect Asus to honor bug reports from Linux users that show that certain features aren't working (under Linux) because of a motherboard BIOS bug. The way I understood the replies I got here is that once I run Linux, I can't report bugs because Linux isn't supported in the first place. You will understand that under these circumstances I would be unable to recommend Asus.

    Bottom line: The only thing I want to know is where Asus stands.

    Car analogy: I disagree with your 103 vs. 83 octane analogy. Asus clearly states that it supports Microsoft only. This means if I use the Asus product with other "brands" of OSes, there will be no warranty (let alone support). This is like buying a car where the vendor tells me to only use Shell gas. If I were to fill at a BP station, there wouldn't be any warranty.
    The "octane" in your example is a technical feature/criteria that's measurable across different brands (Shell, BP, etc.) of gasoline. Much the same as "64-bit" or "UEFI" in OS specs.

    We both know that there are a number of OSes available that run on X79 h/w platforms. I don't expect Asus to give end-users hot-line or trouble shooting support for Linux, however, I do expect Asus to react to bug reports or warranty issues when using for example Linux or Xen, when both the h/w platform and the OS support that feature in question. VT-d is a feature supported both by the X79 platform and Linux/Xen/VMware you name it.

    Alternatively I can accept that Asus doesn't support VT-d, as long as Asus documents that shortcoming, for example a "known bugs" list, or even a blunt statement saying "Asus xxx doesn't support VT-d", or a simple table or entry in the product specs that indicate whether or not the product supports that feature. Check out the Intel website for a good example.

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