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  1. #71
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    @Nodens: Thanks for your efforts in clarifying support. I agree with most of it, except that you left out the part of the motherboard/BIOS vendor. For example, VT-d is a X79 feature, but as you said it may not be supported by Windows. It is, however, supported by Linux/VMware/Xen/KVM. So when VT-d isn't currently supported in some Asus motherboards or motherboard/CPU combinations, the reason for that is the BIOS, which is in the responsibility of the vendor (Asus).
    My opinion is that Asus must enable this feature even if it isn't available to Windows users, and even if the bug was reported using dmesg on a Linux machine. Unless Asus makes it clear in its documentation that this features is not supported.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    EDIT:
    PS. Regarding UEFI/BIOS changelogs. Heh most of them say improved system stability because there are patents etc that prevent complete listing of a proper changelog. ASUS is notorious for "Improved system stability" changelogs. And before you ask about it, several people have petitioned for more detailed changelogs in the past (including myself) but the only thing we managed, is to get an extra line or two on the changelogs where possible instead of plain "Improved System Stabilty". For this reason I usually do inspection of the firmware images myself for the RIVE boards and share any identifiable components or rough estimation of EFI modules changed. Still I'd take this any day (having to inspect and taking the time to share with the community) if the alternative is full changelogs for crappy firmware (which seems to be the case imo).
    I don't see why patents prevent a company from documenting features / bug fixes? Just the opposite, anyone filing a patent must disclose the "secrets" or the particular invention that is to be patented, and the patent application can be reviewed by anyone, if I remember correctly. US patents and their full content are accessible freely. See here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/search/.

    Perhaps you confuse patents with NDA (non-disclosure agreement). An NDA would be an agreement between two parties where the disclosure of information is restricted or prohibited. For example between Asus and the company that develops the BIOS (assuming there is such a company).
    In that case I advise Asus to check the exact content of the NDA and, if necessary, renegotiate that NDA. The way it stands now, this lack of information is damaging to the business.

  2. #72
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    A company like asus does not play non regression tests ?

  3. #73
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerhouse View Post
    @Nodens: Thanks for your efforts in clarifying support. I agree with most of it, except that you left out the part of the motherboard/BIOS vendor. For example, VT-d is a X79 feature, but as you said it may not be supported by Windows. It is, however, supported by Linux/VMware/Xen/KVM. So when VT-d isn't currently supported in some Asus motherboards or motherboard/CPU combinations, the reason for that is the BIOS, which is in the responsibility of the vendor (Asus).
    My opinion is that Asus must enable this feature even if it isn't available to Windows users, and even if the bug was reported using dmesg on a Linux machine. Unless Asus makes it clear in its documentation that this features is not supported.
    I did not leave anything out. VT-d is a platform feature. Of course the firmware is the responsibility of the OEM (at least in most of the cases). I do not understand what we are discussing here though. ASUS does enable the feature. It is currently bugged. There is no issue of VT-d not being supported on these boards or being disabled. So why are we talking about the same thing again and again?

    The facts are:
    The feature is supported.
    The feature is currently bugged for IB-E chips.

    That's all. There is no other issue. No case where it's not supported or whatever. Boards say clearly that they support it and they actually do. IB-E chips are new and they're not fixed yet in firmware. That's all. There is really nothing more to be said about this and it feels like we're beating a dead horse again and again for no reason, constantly talking about things that are irrelevant (eg not supporting the feature).

    The only gray area is Linux. When you're contacting tech support you're effectively contacting some guys, following a script, who are trying to help you troubleshoot. That's their job description. As soon as you mention Linux you'll get the "Linux is not supported" thing that you'll also get from ANY other OEM's tech support because that's what the script says. No tech support for Linux.
    So I said don't do that. Just accurately report the bug, don't ask for help regarding Linux. If the tech support person gives you the Linux is not supported line when you do, just explain to them that you are not asking for Linux support and that you are just reporting a UEFI bug for example (while explaining accurately what is not working).

    I don't see why patents prevent a company from documenting features / bug fixes? Just the opposite, anyone filing a patent must disclose the "secrets" or the particular invention that is to be patented, and the patent application can be reviewed by anyone, if I remember correctly. US patents and their full content are accessible freely. See here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/search/.

    Perhaps you confuse patents with NDA (non-disclosure agreement). An NDA would be an agreement between two parties where the disclosure of information is restricted or prohibited. For example between Asus and the company that develops the BIOS (assuming there is such a company).
    In that case I advise Asus to check the exact content of the NDA and, if necessary, renegotiate that NDA. The way it stands now, this lack of information is damaging to the business.
    No I mean Intellectual Property, trade secrets, things under NDA, etc etc. All of that. I just used a blanket term. In a lot of cases you can't say " Fixed A issue that happened due to B" when A or B involve something that you can't reveal to the public.

    That said. Don't think that other OEMs are not doing the same thing. ASUS is just a bit more extreme about it (but I'll take the time I need to manually examine the firmware images myself anyday for the quality of the engineering). Check other OEM's updates and you'll see 1-2 lines of things changed. Do you seriously think this is the actual changelog? Actual changelogs would be more than 2 pages long between versions Is it annoying? Yes. Can something be done about it? No. We tried already.
    Last edited by Nodens; 01-08-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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  4. #74
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    Thanks again Nodens for the detailed answer, as always. I promise that this is my last post on that subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    ...Boards say clearly that they support it and they actually do. ...
    Can you point me where Asus clearly says that a board supports VT-d (IOMMU)? I must have missed something. I couldn't find it in the manual - there is no description nor menu entry for enabling VT-d, although my BIOS does have the option - nor in the technical specifications on the Asus website.

    Please paste a link to it.

    Nodens, you have mentioned some boards you personally tested/use with VT-d. Can you specify the BIOS releases you are using?

    EDIT: I saw that the 4802 BIOS release for the RIVE is out. You mentioned earlier that this release might support VT-d for IB-E CPUs. Can you confirm? Or should VT-d users get the beta release mentioned earlier in the thread?

    EDIT2: Ive added the Rampage IV Formula and Gene boards to the VT-d compatible list with SB-E support only, see http://www.overclock.net/t/1338063/v...e-motherboards. You are welcome to post news and updates to that thread, or here, since I will scan this thread as well.
    I will update my Sabertooth X79 BIOS today and report back to the separate thread on VT-d support for Sabertooth.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by powerhouse; 01-09-2014 at 08:55 AM.

  5. #75
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    Geez, SMH This has been covered over and over again on this forum for a while now.
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  6. #76
    ROG Enthusiast Array csbin PC Specs
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    X79 Chipset

    P9X79-E WS

    BIOS 1406 for P9X79-E WS released to public
    1. Improve compatibility for USB3.0.
    2. Improve stability for chassis fan 3 (CHA_FAN3).
    3. Add item "Intel(R) VT-d" when using IvyBridge CPU.
    4. Modify the sting and helping string of PCI Above 4G Decoding.


    http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79E_WS/#support

  7. #77
    Super Moderator - Coderat Array Nodens PC Specs
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    Unfortunately I can not test 4802 for IB-E as I don't currently have an IB-E chip. One of the guys here should give it a spin.

    Regarding UEFI versions. All versions since 1404 for the RIVE work fine for SB-E. I have not tested earlier versions.
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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by csbin View Post
    X79 Chipset

    P9X79-E WS

    BIOS 1406 for P9X79-E WS released to public
    1. Improve compatibility for USB3.0.
    2. Improve stability for chassis fan 3 (CHA_FAN3).
    3. Add item "Intel(R) VT-d" when using IvyBridge CPU.
    4. Modify the sting and helping string of PCI Above 4G Decoding.


    http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79E_WS/#support
    Thanks, I've added it to the list .

    @Nodens: Thanks for the reply. Let's hope someone can check IVB-E.

  9. #79
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    New RIVGene bios !!! End of week i will test to see if vt-d is on with Ivy-E !
    Last edited by -Nax-; 01-14-2014 at 02:26 PM.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Saknussemm View Post
    Should change that to HiWhizMan
    The prob W/that is here in the USA "taking a whiz" means something that you wouldn't want to be associated with!
    Yes, sorry, this is a bit late. I haven't been watching this forum much for months.
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    Overclocking is useless to me if it is not rock stable.

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