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  1. #61
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    You're right guys- we all might have the same cooling and pasting, we're just testing in different environments. Cooler ambient helps, even the humidity counts

    hmscott i4860hq has x36 is maximum multiplier but only for one core, for 2 cores running paralllel is x35 and x34 for all 4 cores.

    Mine hitted 94 Celcius maximum and hwinfo didn't indicated Thermal Throtthling. Let's be frank - none of the current games will probably be able to put the CPU into that condition which Prime95 does, so probably we don't have to worry about. For now of course... As time will pass, dust will come to heating pipes and paste will loose it capabilities, thus we might start to thermal throttling under normal gaming conditions... I'm going to buy some cooling pad definitely - 2-3 Celcius less will be vital.
    I also recommend to put the "Balanced" power plan - it will downclock the CPU to 8x when not in use, lowering the overall temperature and increasing lifespan of the cpu and paste. It's very intelligent - if some process needs a core, then it can hit max turbo. Maximum performance keeps max turbo on all cores even if there are not in used - thus increasing the temperature of the CPU.

    UPDATE:
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    Standard fumark with burn in + prime small fft. Even though i got thermal throthling indicator, you can see that multiplier haven't been lowered below the base value. Base clocks also stayed the same. Actual thermal throttling threshold set by Asus might be higher than the one idicated by HWInfo - otherwise we would see effects on minimum clock value or bus clock values. Please correct me if i'm wrong. Cooling pad for the win
    Last edited by rmuniak; 12-13-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #62
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
    hmscott PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
    Power Supply230w AC Power Adapter 19.5v
    Keyboard Logitech k400 Wireless KB/Trackpad
    Headset Sony MDR-XB500 Wired and Sennheiser RS-220 Wireless TOSLINK
    OS Windows 8.1 + 8 Linux VM's + Windows 10 Technical Preview
    Network RouterAsus RT-AC68U DLINK DIR-655

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmuniak View Post
    You're right guys- we all might have the same cooling and pasting, we're just testing in different environments. Cooler ambient helps, even the humidity counts
    hmscott i4860hq has x36 is maximum multiplier but only for one core, for 2 cores running paralllel is x35 and x34 for all 4 cores.
    Mine hitted 94 Celcius maximum and hwinfo didn't indicated Thermal Throtthling. Let's be frank - none of the current games will probably be able to put the CPU into that condition which Prime95 does, so probably we don't have to worry about. For now of course... As time will pass, dust will come to heating pipes and paste will loose it capabilities, thus we might start to thermal throttling under normal gaming conditions... I'm going to buy some cooling pad definitely - 2-3 Celcius less will be vital.
    I also recommend to put the "Balanced" power plan - it will downclock the CPU to 8x when not in use, lowering the overall temperature and increasing lifespan of the cpu and paste. It's very intelligent - if some process needs a core, then it can hit max turbo. Maximum performance keeps max turbo on all cores even if there are not in used - thus increasing the temperature of the CPU.
    rmuniak, yes, I use the Balanced Power Plan myself for everything except Benchmark/Stress testing - High Performance generates a lot of heat all the time, and doesn't give the CPU a chance to cool between loads.

    The 4700HQ default multi's are 34x,33x,32x,32x cores and 34x cache. With XTU I can bump them up to 36x,35x,34x,34x cores and 36x cache.

    Are the values you listed for the 4860HQ XTU max values, or default values?

    Gaming sometimes kicks temperatures up over prime95 readings, the multiple threads don't all hit the CPU cores at 100% at the same time to get the temps maxxed out - but prime95 is a good test everyone can download and set up the same to get comparable readings.

    Except for a heavy load test like this, I don't think both CPU/GPU will evet be hit this hard, unless your application is doing high CPU/GPU rendering, and only a few user loads I have seen hit harder - tuning down the multiplier on cores 3/4 to 29x-30x - adjusting for highest performance just under thermal throttling point, gets them through those loads as well.

    When you find a cooling pad that helps reduce CPU/GPU temperature readings, please let us know
    Last edited by hmscott; 12-13-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #63
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    hmscott i think they are default values. Since the temperatures are already high (check update of my post above for the test), i'm definitely not plan to modify them and do OC. Which software we can use for setting the maximum multipliers for each core to prevent thermal throthling?
    Last edited by rmuniak; 12-13-2014 at 02:50 PM.

  4. #64
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
    hmscott PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
    Power Supply230w AC Power Adapter 19.5v
    Keyboard Logitech k400 Wireless KB/Trackpad
    Headset Sony MDR-XB500 Wired and Sennheiser RS-220 Wireless TOSLINK
    OS Windows 8.1 + 8 Linux VM's + Windows 10 Technical Preview
    Network RouterAsus RT-AC68U DLINK DIR-655

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmuniak View Post
    ...
    UPDATE:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Standard fumark with burn in + prime small fft. Even though i got thermal throthling indicator, you can see that multiplier haven't been lowered below the base value. Base clocks also stayed the same. Actual thermal throttling threshold set by Asus might be higher than the one indicated by HWInfo - otherwise we would see effects on minimum clock value or bus clock values. Please correct me if i'm wrong. Cooling pad for the win
    rmuniak, it is weird, sometimes a particular model of ROG laptop will thermal throttle at lower than expected temperature, and sometimes higher... I wonder if hwinfo is including TDP Power Limit Throttling events in with Thermal Throttling events.

    It helps to send the readings to a logfile - having the min, max, average values in a single display is handy, but it doesn't tell you what went on in between those readings, and how often the peaks were sustained - most of the time when you look at the detailed logs, the peaks are very rarely and briefly hit - with the rest of the readings much lower.

    You can click the green + mark at the bottom left, 2nd over, icon to start default setting logging or go into settings to set the level / frequency of logging. A .csv file is created - but the default uses semi-colon's instead of comma's so I edit the file with notepad to do a global replace of ;'s to ,'s - makes the columns line up nicer in Excel.

    Thanks for posting the new update with thermal throttling - what was your ambient temp? Mine here is 22.2c - is your run today at a higher/lower ambient than yesterdays tests?
    Last edited by hmscott; 12-13-2014 at 04:11 PM.

  5. #65
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
    hmscott PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
    Power Supply230w AC Power Adapter 19.5v
    Keyboard Logitech k400 Wireless KB/Trackpad
    Headset Sony MDR-XB500 Wired and Sennheiser RS-220 Wireless TOSLINK
    OS Windows 8.1 + 8 Linux VM's + Windows 10 Technical Preview
    Network RouterAsus RT-AC68U DLINK DIR-655

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmuniak View Post
    hmscott i think they are default values. Since the temperatures are already high (check update of my post above for the test), i'm definitely not plan to modify them and do OC. Which software we can use for setting the maximum multipliers for each core to prevent thermal throttling?
    rmuniak, actually for most times, setting the multipliers up to maximum values is ok, because we don't load the CPU on all cores at 100%.

    As you add threads, which in Windows is most of the time, the cores all drop down in multipliers - it is rare to have a single thread at 36x for an extended period, some other background process kicks in and drops the over all multipliers. You are using Balanced mode, so the CPU is constantly down-clocking.

    The program is from Intel, and all it does is unlock the intended maximum core multipliers - what it would have shipped with if everyone had as awesome of a cooling solution as Asus.

    Intel Extreme Tuning Utility - XTU has been out for a while now, and is stable. You set the values, Apply them to the current running environment, then Save the new values to a Profile, which gets loaded and run again at the next boot.

    If / when you crash Windows, at the next reboot XTU won't apply it's settings - because it doesn't know if the settings set by the active profile caused the crash or not - so after a Windows crash you know wasn't caused by XTU, start it, load the desired profile, and Apply it.

    The other cooling thing you can do with XTU is to set a Negative Dynamic CPU Offset voltage and Cache Voltage offset - this reduces the power used and heat generated by the CPU, resulting in lower temps and less fan action at idle.

    Every CPU is different so your setting may or may not match mine or others. Between my 3 G750's they all had different stable negative offset voltages. My JW was -125mV, JX was -75mV, my JH was -20mV new and stable now at -45mV - you can make small adjustments over time and the CPU seems to respond favorably by becoming stable at that new lower voltage.

    Here is what XTU looks like, for settings, Profiles, and Benchmark, Stress testing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    G750JH max settings, -40mV, benchmark
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    G750JW, default settings, -100mV, benchmark
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    Settings for graph readings enable, click the little Wrench icon in each display pane to change pane settings. These are different and in addition to the program settings.
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    5 minute stress test, simple CPU test for Power Limit Throttling, temperature throttling
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    Intel Extreme Tuning Utility Download - XTU currently at 5.1.1.25
    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sea...ng&keyword=xtu

    For border line thermal throttling, for long batch jobs, you can make a special profile that uses maximum multipliers for cores 1/2 and reduce the core multi's for cores 3/4 to just under thermal throttle point on extended runs - to maximize throughput/performance and keep the temperature under Thermal Throttle point. As an example, this worked on a G750JS setting to 36x,35x,30x,28x cores and 36x cache for rendering work.

    You should be able to set max multipliers for cores/cache for normal operation on the G751, but always test to make sure.

    Have fun
    Last edited by hmscott; 12-13-2014 at 04:45 PM.

  6. #66
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    Thank you very much mister! I must say i underestimated your knowledge in the topic and own you some sincere apologies I actually find out that i have this software already installed by Asus.
    That option for setting particular maximum multiplier value would be really valuable to prevent thermal throthling.

    Isn't messing with voltages dangerous? Will it affect the CPU performance negatively? I understand higher voltage = higher temperature and better performance, lower voltage=lower temperature and a bit worse performance?

  7. #67
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
    hmscott PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
    Power Supply230w AC Power Adapter 19.5v
    Keyboard Logitech k400 Wireless KB/Trackpad
    Headset Sony MDR-XB500 Wired and Sennheiser RS-220 Wireless TOSLINK
    OS Windows 8.1 + 8 Linux VM's + Windows 10 Technical Preview
    Network RouterAsus RT-AC68U DLINK DIR-655

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmuniak View Post
    Thank you very much mister! I must say i underestimated your knowledge in the topic and own you some sincere apologies I actually find out that i have this software already installed by Asus.
    That option for setting particular maximum multiplier value would be really valuable to prevent thermal throthling.

    Isn't messing with voltages dangerous? Will it affect the CPU performance negatively? I understand higher voltage = higher temperature and better performance, lower voltage=lower temperature and a bit worse performance?
    rmuniak, the voltage drop when stable is ok. You try in small increments, do a stress test, and if it is stable, drop it a little more, when it finally BSOD's then back off 1/2 your increment and stress test again.

    Eventually you will arrive at a stress test stable undervolt and then you reboot and let it sit idle for a few hours and if it doesn't BSOD, you have a stable undervolt. If it does crash during the idle test, back off 1/2 increment and let it idle again.

    I usually can't do that much idle testing in a row, so I will save the test profile and go back to a stable or default profile to do work - important, don't have a test setting in play and try to do work.

    Asus started including XTU with the G751, we needed to download it from Intel for the G750. What version is Asus shipping? The latest from Intel is 5.1.1.25.

    I have been undervolting and overvolting for a long time. All the CPU's are still alive

  8. #68
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    Rmuniak.....i too have been suffering high temperatures peaking at 92 especially with the house heating on! I wish to prolong the life of my g751and done a little searching.
    Goto your power settings and on processor state change from 100% to 99%. Immediatley my temperatures fell into the 60s to low 70s. Without any noticeable drop in performance. I then set my fps in evga precision to 60 max. Im now gaming bf4 on ultra with average temperatures mid 50s for cpu. An incredible drop of over 30%s.
    Have a play around and let us no.

  9. #69
    ROG Guru: Platinum Belt Array hmscott PC Specs
    hmscott PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G750JH-DB71 (legacy)
    MotherboardAsus G750JH Intel HM87
    ProcessorIntel i7-4700HQ XTU Cores 36x/35x/34x/34x Cache 36x -50mV undervolt
    Memory (part number)Hyundai Electronics HMT41GS6AFR8A-PB 1.35v DDR3L-1600MHz
    Graphics Card #1Nvidia 780m Asus GPU Tweak OC 932mhz/6300mhz
    Sound CardRealtek v6.0.1.7469 driver
    MonitorAUO B173HW02 V1 Custom Refresh 85hz
    Storage #1RAID0 2x M.2 SATA Crucial MX200 512GB CT500MX200SSD6
    Storage #2Crucial 512GB 2.5" MX200 CT500MX200SSD1
    Power Supply230w AC Power Adapter 19.5v
    Keyboard Logitech k400 Wireless KB/Trackpad
    Headset Sony MDR-XB500 Wired and Sennheiser RS-220 Wireless TOSLINK
    OS Windows 8.1 + 8 Linux VM's + Windows 10 Technical Preview
    Network RouterAsus RT-AC68U DLINK DIR-655

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    Quote Originally Posted by insiZion1 View Post
    ...power settings and on processor state change from 100% to 99%. Immediatley my temperatures fell into the 60s to low 70s. Without any noticeable drop in performance. I then set my fps in evga precision to 60 max. Im now gaming bf4 on ultra with average temperatures mid 50s for cpu. An incredible drop of over 30%s.
    Have a play around and let us no.
    insiZion1, you don't need to give up that much performance to get the temperatures down. In fact the G751 cooling system will keep the CPU/GPU cool enough even at full performance, and as the temperatures touch Thermal Throttling at highest performance and maximum cooling point - the CPU/GPU will throttle gradually.

    There is no need to give up all that performance from 2.5ghz to 3.6ghz (4860HQ). You say you don't notice, but you will

    Your temperature drop of 30% is about the same as the performance drop, CPU performance. If you starve the GPU for CPU cycles by reducing the CPU performance you will be giving up GPU performance as well.

    For some games, that isn't an issue, but the easier way to solve it is to leave the CPU/GPU settings as they are and use the FPS control features of the game and Nvidia to restrict runaway FPS, whatever is 10% above your refresh rate is wasted, some say 220%, either way use the demand reduction tools, not the source generation tools to limit power usage.

    But, you have the right idea, just the wrong end of the stick.

    Why spend all that money on high performance CPU/GPU and then not use it? Might as well get a 960m to begin with.

    If you want to tune the multipliers so as to not limit performance - set cores 3 and 4 just under Thermal Throttle point, and increase cores 1 and 2 to max multipliers, that is a good compromise.

    With this fine tuning you are only loosing performance in the situation where you at at 100% utilization for sustained periods of time, but all normal usage happens at full performance + extended multiplier for single/dual threaded demand.

    Have fun
    Last edited by hmscott; 12-15-2014 at 11:44 AM.

  10. #70
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    Thx for pointing that out. Im new to laptops and never had any temperature issues with my built desktops.
    Using hwmonitor and seeing such high temperatures was worrying me. I dont want to fry the laptop to quick. Trying to get my head around all the core adjusting is quite mind boggling. This machine runs everything i throw at it with ease even with the adjustment i made with the processor state. Is there a tutorial on tuning the multipliers as it sounds quite difficult. Many thx.

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