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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
    Brighttail PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by geneo View Post
    I think you will find here cost isn't a limiting factor much.
    I have 32 GB RAM and I dedicate 1/2 of that to PrimoCache, which I think the ROG RAM cache is based on. It works really well. Worth it IMO.

    I use it in a persistent mode - it gets loaded pretty quick at startup. It is a low level disk block cache. It get 60-90% cache hits, which is extremely good.

    I also use it for deferred writing, which really improves the write performance significantly. There is some risk to this. but I make frequent backups so the risk is minimal to me.
    What is persistent mode? As in it is always running through reboots and all? RAMCACHE is that way by default if that is the case.

    Not sure how I can tell what the cache hits are or how to use it as deferred writing.

    I wish there was better documentation on all the stuff you can do with Ramcache and Ramdisk.
    Last edited by Brighttail; 12-19-2016 at 02:32 AM.
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  2. #12
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array geneo PC Specs
    geneo PC Specs
    MotherboardMaximus X Code
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    Memory (part number)32 GB (2x16) G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200 MHz CL14 @ 3733 16-16-36
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    Graphics Card #2AMD Radeon WX 7100
    MonitorNEC PA271Q and Dell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighttail View Post
    What is persistent mode? As in it is always running through reboots and all? RAMCACHE is that way by default if that is the case.

    Not sure how I can tell what the cache hits are or how to use it as deferred writing.

    I wish there was better documentation on all the stuff you can do with Ramcache and Ramdisk.
    I meant by persistent that Prim cache can save the cache across a reboot and start loading it to memory when windows starts. Primocache has a graph of percent of cache hit rate and you can set it up to do write-back (differed write). I assumed the ROG cache has similar.

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
    Brighttail PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G751JT
    MotherboardAsus x299 Rampage VI Extreme
    ProcessorIntel i9-7900x
    Memory (part number)Corsair Dominator Platinum SE 3200Mhz 4x8
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080TI
    MonitorAcer XB321HK (4k,IPS,G-sync)
    Storage #1Intel 900p (Boot) 2xSM961 (RAID 0) Games
    Storage #2Samsung 850 Pro 512GB - WD Black 4TB
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    Yeah Ramcache has nothing like that. Just shows what drive the Ramcache is being saved to and how much Ram is being used.
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  4. #14
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
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    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
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    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
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    I find ASUS RAMCache can increase specific benchmarked performances but actually decreases overall "real-world" performances when compared vs Samsung RAPID/Magician software. And using both simultaneously definitely decreases performance by any measure, running twice as much software to segment physical memory with different implementations of the same objective. I prefer the Samsung software for this caching, though of course that's only an option when using supported Samsung drives.

    Don't believe the ASUS marketing promise about "a minimized risk of data loss". RAM is a volatile storage medium, caching your stuff in RAM is in fact "a maximum risk of data loss" regardless which method or software you use. Sudden power loss can result in much grief (and wasted time) if you lose precious data, it will lose and possibly corrupt data (including the file system) before it can be written to nonvolatile storage, it can permanently reduce drive performance/capacity (wreck many blocks of SSD NVRAM/flash) when interrupted in the middle of a Write operation.

    I would never run any kind of cache-in-RAM software without a proper uninterruptible power supply that's capable of "gracefully" shutting down the entire system. The risk of a fault is minimal, the consequences of a fault could be severe or even catastrophic.

    SSD-integrated capacitors can prevent damage to SSD media, but they won't save any data (or changes to data) "temporarily" being cached off-drive (in RAM). Most enterprise SSDs (or SSD mounts/cages) do use such capacitors - and most consumer SSDs do not. (On a side note, adding these caps is a very easy hardware mod, if you don't mind voiding warranty with a little electrical craft.)

    Some enterprise motherboards have batteries or capacitors which provide minimum backup/emergency power to RAM. There are even "NVRAM RDIMMs" which function like normal memory sticks but don't require constant electrical power to hold data. These sorts of things are expensive, special-purpose, and not really available through normal consumer channels.

    Perhaps ASUS could implement "backup" memory power onto future enthusiast motherboards? Or "backup" SSD capacitors to plug in-line on SATA cables, clip onto SATA SSDs, etc? This seems consistent with ROG's general philosophy of pushing performance and reliability to maximal thresholds, and I suspect that "money is no object" for avid ROG customers. (And how could it be a bad idea to buy a $50 gizmo which protects a $500 SSD drive, or a $300 UPS which protects a $3000 gaming computer?)
    Last edited by Korth; 01-01-2017 at 10:05 PM.

  5. #15
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
    Brighttail PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G751JT
    MotherboardAsus x299 Rampage VI Extreme
    ProcessorIntel i9-7900x
    Memory (part number)Corsair Dominator Platinum SE 3200Mhz 4x8
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080TI
    MonitorAcer XB321HK (4k,IPS,G-sync)
    Storage #1Intel 900p (Boot) 2xSM961 (RAID 0) Games
    Storage #2Samsung 850 Pro 512GB - WD Black 4TB
    CPU CoolerCustom Water Cool
    CasePhanteks Enthoo Elite
    Power SupplyCorsair AX 1200i
    Keyboard Corsair Platinum 95
    Mouse Asus SPATHA
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    Headset/Speakers Kanyo Y5
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    I've seen mixed results. My problem is I can't use the Magician software on my 950 or 961s, so that leaves just my 850pro that I can use it on and that drive isn't used as a main OS drive. Checking the speed of the OS drive using RamCache, it is about 4x better than normal, but with it running my RAID 0 is slightly impacted. I'm not worried about losing data. I have my system backed with about three redundant ones so I'm mainly using it now to help with browser cache and just files that are opened frequently.

    In the end with it on or off, there isn't much of a difference, so if I can use it and OP partitioning to help extend the life of my drives, I'm cool with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    I find ASUS RAMCache can increase specific benchmarked performances but actually decreases overall "real-world" performances when compared vs Samsung RAPID/Magician software. And using both simultaneously definitely decreases performance by any measure, running twice as much software to segment physical memory with different implementations of the same objective. I prefer the Samsung software for this caching, though of course that's only an option when using supported Samsung drives.

    Don't believe the ASUS marketing promise about "a minimized risk of data loss". RAM is a volatile storage medium, caching your stuff in RAM is in fact "a maximum risk of data loss" regardless which method or software you use. Sudden power loss can result in much grief (and wasted time) if you lose precious data, it will lose and possibly corrupt data (including the file system) before it can be written to nonvolatile storage, it can permanently reduce drive performance/capacity (wreck many blocks of SSD NVRAM/flash) when interrupted in the middle of a Write operation.

    I would never run any kind of cache-in-RAM software without a proper uninterruptible power supply that's capable of "gracefully" shutting down the entire system. The risk of a fault is minimal, the consequences of a fault could be severe or even catastrophic.

    SSD-integrated capacitors can prevent damage to SSD media, but they won't save any data (or changes to data) "temporarily" being cached off-drive (in RAM). Most enterprise SSDs (or SSD mounts/cages) do use such capacitors - and most consumer SSDs do not. (On a side note, adding these caps is a very easy hardware mod, if you don't mind voiding warranty with a little electrical craft.)

    Some enterprise motherboards have batteries or capacitors which provide minimum backup/emergency power to RAM. There are even "NVRAM RDIMMs" which function like normal memory sticks but don't require constant electrical power to hold data. These sorts of things are expensive, special-purpose, and not really available through normal consumer channels.

    Perhaps ASUS could implement "backup" memory power onto future enthusiast motherboards? Or "backup" SSD capacitors to plug in-line on SATA cables, clip onto SATA SSDs, etc? This seems consistent with ROG's general philosophy of pushing performance and reliability to maximal thresholds, and I suspect that "money is no object" for avid ROG customers. (And how could it be a bad idea to buy a $50 gizmo which protects a $500 SSD drive, or a $300 UPS which protects a $3000 gaming computer?)
    Panteks Enthoo Elite / Asus x299 Rampage VI Extreme / Intel I9-7900X / Corsair Dominator Platinum SE 4x8 3200MHz
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    Samsung 850 PRO 512GB / Western Digital Gold 8TB HD
    Corsair AX 1200i / Corsair Platinum K95 / Asus Spatha
    Acer XB321HK 4k, IPS, G-sync Monitor / Water Cooled / Asus G571JT Laptop

  6. #16
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array geneo PC Specs
    geneo PC Specs
    MotherboardMaximus X Code
    ProcessorIntel 8086K @ 5.1Ghz
    Memory (part number)32 GB (2x16) G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200 MHz CL14 @ 3733 16-16-36
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    Graphics Card #2AMD Radeon WX 7100
    MonitorNEC PA271Q and Dell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    I find ASUS RAMCache can increase specific benchmarked performances but actually decreases overall "real-world" performances when compared vs Samsung RAPID/Magician software. And using both simultaneously definitely decreases performance by any measure, running twice as much software to segment physical memory with different implementations of the same objective. I prefer the Samsung software for this caching, though of course that's only an option when using supported Samsung drives.
    I would be interested in seeing data to back this up. I don't know where the twice the twice as much software number comes from. Sure there is additional code that runs, but the latency and speed of memory vs flash or disk offsets this by a huge amount.


    Don't believe the ASUS marketing promise about "a minimized risk of data loss". RAM is a volatile storage medium, caching your stuff in RAM is in fact "a maximum risk of data loss" regardless which method or software you use. Sudden power loss can result in much grief (and wasted time) if you lose precious data, it will lose and possibly corrupt data (including the file system) before it can be written to nonvolatile storage, it can permanently reduce drive performance/capacity (wreck many blocks of SSD NVRAM/flash) when interrupted in the middle of a Write operation.

    I would never run any kind of cache-in-RAM software without a proper uninterruptible power supply that's capable of "gracefully" shutting down the entire system. The risk of a fault is minimal, the consequences of a fault could be severe or even catastrophic.

    SSD-integrated capacitors can prevent damage to SSD media, but they won't save any data (or changes to data) "temporarily" being cached off-drive (in RAM). Most enterprise SSDs (or SSD mounts/cages) do use such capacitors - and most consumer SSDs do not. (On a side note, adding these caps is a very easy hardware mod, if you don't mind voiding warranty with a little electrical craft.)
    That certainly may be true if you are using a write-back cache and defer writes in memory. But caching reads and writes (not write-back but write through) presents absolutely no more risk than already present in the OS, and reads can benefit greatly from a cache.

    OS cache file writes in memory too. The OS can specify that critical file writes be immediately flushed through computer memory and on-board disk cache, but it doesn't do that for every write, so you can lose data there anyhow. But the OS pretty much ensures that the file system is at least consistent by flushing critical data and using journaling for the rest (for ntfs file system eg).

    Also, write-back cache can benefit SSD by sending more data at a time to it and hence reducing write amplification.

    I have been using write-back caching for year with no problems and I have no concern about a power outage or system crash - I regularly do backups, as everyone should, and it is a < 5 minute operation to restore. I have never had to restore because of corruption (except from overclocking), but have many times due to buggy software driver or application installs.


    Some enterprise motherboards have batteries or capacitors which provide minimum backup/emergency power to RAM. There are even "NVRAM RDIMMs" which function like normal memory sticks but don't require constant electrical power to hold data. These sorts of things are expensive, special-purpose, and not really available through normal consumer channels.

    Perhaps ASUS could implement "backup" memory power onto future enthusiast motherboards? Or "backup" SSD capacitors to plug in-line on SATA cables, clip onto SATA SSDs, etc? This seems consistent with ROG's general philosophy of pushing performance and reliability to maximal thresholds, and I suspect that "money is no object" for avid ROG customers. (And how could it be a bad idea to buy a $50 gizmo which protects a $500 SSD drive, or a $300 UPS which protects a $3000 gaming computer?)
    Last edited by geneo; 01-02-2017 at 07:21 AM.

  7. #17
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
    Brighttail PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G751JT
    MotherboardAsus x299 Rampage VI Extreme
    ProcessorIntel i9-7900x
    Memory (part number)Corsair Dominator Platinum SE 3200Mhz 4x8
    Graphics Card #1MSI GTX 1080TI
    MonitorAcer XB321HK (4k,IPS,G-sync)
    Storage #1Intel 900p (Boot) 2xSM961 (RAID 0) Games
    Storage #2Samsung 850 Pro 512GB - WD Black 4TB
    CPU CoolerCustom Water Cool
    CasePhanteks Enthoo Elite
    Power SupplyCorsair AX 1200i
    Keyboard Corsair Platinum 95
    Mouse Asus SPATHA
    Mouse Pad Corsair MM800
    Headset/Speakers Kanyo Y5
    OS Windows 10 64 bit
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    My problem with RamDisk is that I love that I can create a junction between my steam game and the RamDrive automatically. No having to create in a DOS window. Unfortunately there is no automatic save feature. I have to make sure I sync it every now and then and if my steam crashes it has caused the entire game to be FUBAR'd.

    Just to test it out I loaded my game, saved it, played a bit, saved again and closed the game properly. Then I simulated a power outage.

    Other RAMdisks once saved (writes the information to the appropriate file) and when I have had a sudden outage, so long as the game was saved, it loads up no problem. Unfortunately Asus Ramdisk doesn't do this. The steam game is broken and I have to quite literally reload Steam and redownload the game. Even my backup won't work properly.

    I have used other programs like AMD Raedon Ramdisk and that works better but you have to manually create your junctions in DOS.

    Never just an easy way so in the end it all isn't worth it.
    Panteks Enthoo Elite / Asus x299 Rampage VI Extreme / Intel I9-7900X / Corsair Dominator Platinum SE 4x8 3200MHz
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Processor cache (on-die volatile SRAM) can access data virtually instantaneously.
    DDR4 (volatile SDRAM) can access data in a few nanoseconds.
    Firmware and fast SSD/NVMe/PCIe storage (flash NVRAM) can access data in a dozen nanoseconds.
    Slow SSD and USB storage (flash NVRAM) can access data in a few dozen milliseconds.
    HDD storage (fast magnetic media) can access data in a dozen milliseconds.
    Floppy and tape storage (slow magnetic media) can access data in a few dozen milliseconds.
    CD, DVD, and Blu-Ray ODD storage (optical media) can access data in a hundred milliseconds.

    There is nothing faster in practice than a RAM disk for raw performance.
    But there is also nothing more expensive in practice than using RAM for raw data storage, and empty RAM is an expensive waste. At least empty drives (SSD, HDD, USB, etc) can always be filled up later.

    Win7/8/10 OS technically requires only 2GB-4GB of main RAM, although it'll happily bloat out to 8GB when able. So 8GB is plenty.
    Web browsers are trivial applications, although multiple instances filled with "heavy" data streams (like multiple pages of youtube and facebook videos) can gobble up memory. But 8GB is still plenty.
    A few game titles already require 16GB for best performance. The vast majority of games do not require (and won't even use) more than 8GB. Your gaming performance will primarily be defined by your GPU card.

    You might be able to speed up some games by carefully selecting exactly how much of exactly what stuff gets put onto a RAM disk, but it would be a bit of a hassle (because it locks out RAM from other applications) and it wouldn't provide much of a real performance gain over your very fast Samsung 950 SSD device.
    I think you'd be better off without ROG RAMDisk on your 16GB system, it's much more useful on 32GB+ systems.
    So does this still do any good if I already use intel optane 32GB??? I mean if I already have 32gb optane, will RAMCACHE II still benefit or maybe slow down?

  9. #19
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wollah View Post
    So does this still do any good if I already use intel optane 32GB??? I mean if I already have 32gb optane, will RAMCACHE II still benefit or maybe slow down?
    I don't know but I don't expect RAMCache will give any real performance gains on an Optane cache drive.

    I've only bought a couple Optane drives, and only for a niche use where they provide a specific advantage over fast SSD.
    In a non-ASUS platform. I can't test RAMCache on it.

    But you can test it easily enough by comparing benchmarked and real performances, with RAMCache, without RAMCache.
    Results will depend a lot on what you actually do with your computer ... and will likely vary from how much (and how fast) physical RAM is installed in it. If you find the difference isn't noticeable or significant then it's probably better to just discard the RAMCache option, but you'll never know what impact RAMCache might have until you try it. Few ROG enthusiasts buy into Optane from what I've seen.
    Last edited by Korth; 09-12-2018 at 09:28 PM.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

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