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  1. #541
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Bran187 PC Specs
    Bran187 PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)GL502VMK
    MotherboardMSI Z97 SLI Krait Edition
    Processori7 4790
    Memory (part number)16 GB GSkill DDR3
    Graphics Card #1EVGA GTX 1070
    MonitorHP Pavilion 32q
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    CPU CoolerCM 212
    CaseFractal Define R4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    The Gl502vm wasnt advertised as a tb3 capable device, so why expect high speed controller in it? Only the GL702VM has tb3 according to Asus
    I could be wrong, but I thought some of the 502's were advertised not only for TB3 but for compatibility with the XG Station 2.

    Hell my GL502VMK has a Thunderbolt driver listed under the category 'XG Station 2' which just adds to the frustration and confusion. lol

  2. #542
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array StarJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    The Gl502vm wasnt advertised as a tb3 capable device, so why expect high speed controller in it? Only the GL702VM has tb3 according to Asus
    am I missing something here? I don't expect anything in a GL502VM. You asked me about the GL502VM. I have a new GL702VMK which was advertised with 40GBps TB3. I expected it to have what it was advertised with.

    Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bran187 View Post
    I could be wrong, but I thought some of the 502's were advertised not only for TB3 but for compatibility with the XG Station 2.

    Hell my GL502VMK has a Thunderbolt driver listed under the category 'XG Station 2' which just adds to the frustration and confusion. lol
    When I was deciding between the GL502VM and GL702VM I clearly remember that the only difference between them (other than bigger screen, more max ram capacity plus one more vent) was thunderbolt 3.

    As I read on the link I am pretty sure that Asus went with the slower controller for the 502VM, because it does not have TB3. In fact, for anything to "be TB3" at all (regarding "thunderboltness" xd), it needs to have 40 gbps, otherwise it is not tb3.

    I think the rog xg station is linked on the support page, because it can work with the 502VM, but not at full speed. Why shouldn't they list it then? And always check the product page, because if you check out the GL502VM's page, you can clearly see that it doesn't have tb3, unlike the GL702VM.

    I'm not sure, but my explanation would be: the GL502VM has tb as well, it's just not tb3, it's tb2. It then makes sense why they didn't advertise tb3 capability and why they went with a 20gbps chip instead of a 40. This way it can work with the xg station, too. In fact, if you check out the tb speed comparisons between generations you can clearly see that tb2 is 20 gbps and tb3 is 40.
    Last edited by pppttl; 07-15-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarJack View Post
    am I missing something here? I don't expect anything in a GL502VM. You asked me about the GL502VM. I have a new GL702VMK which was advertised with 40GBps TB3. I expected it to have what it was advertised with.

    Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
    Sorry StarJack, it's my bad, i thought you had a GL502VM.
    Last edited by pppttl; 07-15-2017 at 09:20 AM.

  5. #545
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Bran187 PC Specs
    Bran187 PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)GL502VMK
    MotherboardMSI Z97 SLI Krait Edition
    Processori7 4790
    Memory (part number)16 GB GSkill DDR3
    Graphics Card #1EVGA GTX 1070
    MonitorHP Pavilion 32q
    Storage #1120 GB SSD
    Storage #21TB HDD
    CPU CoolerCM 212
    CaseFractal Define R4
    Power SupplySeasonic 650W
    Keyboard Corsair K55
    Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
    Headset Plantronics Rig
    Mouse Pad Glteck XXL
    OS Windows 10

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    For the record, I never bought my 502 with the expectation of TB3. It was a pleasant surprise I found, when I noticed that there was Thunderbolt software claiming that my laptop was TB3 capable. Even with it's X2 implementation, it is an added bonus to my purchase as there are some sick TB3 docks and hard drive enclosures out there to take advantage of.

    My frustration is with Asus and their handling of this. Rather than release official statements and documentation to clarify the situation, they say nothing and have little nuggets of confusion scattered throughout their product pages, spec sheets, and support pages.

    Also pleasant surprise or not, people have a right to know what hardware is in a machine they are buying.

    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    When I was deciding between the GL502VM and GL702VM I clearly remember that the only difference between them (other than bigger screen, more max ram capacity plus one more vent) was thunderbolt 3.
    Fair enough. Though this doesn't Asus from all the misleading/contradicting information scattered elsewhere on their site/on the actual products themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    As I read on the link I am pretty sure that Asus went with the slower controller for the 502VM, because it does not have TB3. In fact, for anything to "be TB3" at all (regarding "thunderboltness" xd), it needs to have 40 gbps, otherwise it is not tb3.
    That's a common misconception, that up until recently I also believed. There are multiple implementations of TB3, just like there were with TB2. Unfortunately people only seem to find out about this when they realize their laptop has one of the cut down implementations

    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    I think the rog xg station is linked on the support page, because it can work with the 502VM, but not at full speed. Why shouldn't they list it then?
    Because it's borderline dishonest, will cause people to have poor experiences, and create a distrust/distaste of the Asus brand. Not to mention create additional confusion about a product, which Asus refuses to clarify or release documentation about.

    Also the E-GPU user experience is far from perfect in ideal scenarios. It would be damn near unusable (especially with any GPU actually worth using compared to the 1060/1070 in these laptops) on a X2 thunderbolt implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    I'm not sure, but my explanation would be: the GL502VM has tb as well, it's just not tb3, it's tb2. It then makes sense why they didn't advertise tb3 capability and why they went with a 20gbps chip instead of a 40. This way it can work with the xg station, too. In fact, if you check out the tb speed comparisons between generations you can clearly see that tb2 is 20 gbps and tb3 is 40.
    There is no USB C implementation of TB2. Not to mention, the TB software itself distinctly says it is indeed Thunderbolt 3. As does all the documentation and information regarding the particular controller in question. Whether it's a X2 or a X4 implementation, it is still TB3.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bran187 View Post
    For the record, I never bought my 502 with the expectation of TB3. It was a pleasant surprise I found, when I noticed that there was Thunderbolt software claiming that my laptop was TB3 capable. Even with it's X2 implementation, it is an added bonus to my purchase as there are some sick TB3 docks and hard drive enclosures out there to take advantage of.

    My frustration is with Asus and their handling of this. Rather than release official statements and documentation to clarify the situation, they say nothing and have little nuggets of confusion scattered throughout their product pages, spec sheets, and support pages.

    Also pleasant surprise or not, people have a right to know what hardware is in a machine they are buying.



    Fair enough. Though this doesn't Asus from all the misleading/contradicting information scattered elsewhere on their site/on the actual products themselves.



    That's a common misconception, that up until recently I also believed. There are multiple implementations of TB3, just like there were with TB2. Unfortunately people only seem to find out about this when they realize their laptop has one of the cut down implementations



    Because it's borderline dishonest, will cause people to have poor experiences, and create a distrust/distaste of the Asus brand. Not to mention create additional confusion about a product, which Asus refuses to clarify or release documentation about.

    Also the E-GPU user experience is far from perfect in ideal scenarios. It would be damn near unusable (especially with any GPU actually worth using compared to the 1060/1070 in these laptops) on a X2 thunderbolt implementation



    There is no USB C implementation of TB2. Not to mention, the TB software itself distinctly says it is indeed Thunderbolt 3. As does all the documentation and information regarding the particular controller in question. Whether it's a X2 or a X4 implementation, it is still TB3.
    I see. I made a lot of assumptions, thanks for clearing this out.
    GL702VM

  7. #547
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Bran187 PC Specs
    Bran187 PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)GL502VMK
    MotherboardMSI Z97 SLI Krait Edition
    Processori7 4790
    Memory (part number)16 GB GSkill DDR3
    Graphics Card #1EVGA GTX 1070
    MonitorHP Pavilion 32q
    Storage #1120 GB SSD
    Storage #21TB HDD
    CPU CoolerCM 212
    CaseFractal Define R4
    Power SupplySeasonic 650W
    Keyboard Corsair K55
    Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
    Headset Plantronics Rig
    Mouse Pad Glteck XXL
    OS Windows 10

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    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    I see. I made a lot of assumptions, thanks for clearing this out.
    It's all good. I thought a lot of the same up until recently when I really started digging into TB3.

    Also sorry if my response came off pointed or rude. I get uppity when talking about this stuff. Mainly because I've been shopping Asus for years and I've never had problems like this before. :P

    Just sucks watching a company that you used to recommend left and right, drop the ball on so many stupid little things. Especially when a lot of it could be fixed or helped with some clear communication to the customers.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bran187 View Post
    It's all good. I thought a lot of the same up until recently when I really started digging into TB3.

    Also sorry if my response came off pointed or rude. I get uppity when talking about this stuff. Mainly because I've been shopping Asus for years and I've never had problems like this before. :P

    Just sucks watching a company that you used to recommend left and right, drop the ball on so many stupid little things. Especially when a lot of it could be fixed or helped with some clear communication to the customers.
    Cheers bro, it wasn't rude at all

    I agree with you, especially what upsets me the most is the poor implementation of the ventilation holes. This machine could have been a dream out of the box if they made bigger holes.

    Personally I don't plan investing in an egpu down the road, because tb3 can noticeably bottleneck gpus even now, I wonder how much the bottleneck will grow in 4-5 years when future gpus require much more bandwith.
    GL702VM

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by pppttl View Post
    It seems like that the sudden fps drops are caused by the device turbo-boosting too much (as suggested by Coldbird here).

    I have made some investigations and some benchmarks, and it seems like that disabling turbo fully eleminates the sudden fps drops. However, you loose ~15% performance on average according to cinebench tests.

    I have a compromise where I disable turbo when gaming, otherwise it is enabled:
    • I made two windows power plans
    • One with turbo enabled
    • One with turbo disabled
    • I also made a batch file which switches between them upon double clicking it


    This way there is no need to undervolt (keep in mind that it only eleminates the fps drops, the temps are hovering arround 80°C) .

    If you want I can share the batch files.
    This is something I did with my old G551JW, which had serious issues with GPU throttling with CPU turbo boost on, and much less throttling (no more then 10% after heavy use) with turbo boost off.

    Still doing the same with my new GL502VMK, although I did not observe any GPU throttling with turbo boost on.
    But getting 10C less in CPU temps is worth for me to still use it, as long as it barely affects performance in the games.

    And with having two profiles, I will always have turbo boost enabled for tasks outside gaming.

    I even added scheduled task that will change the profile to one that has turbo boost, on Windows startup, so I don't need to switch manually when doing non-game related stuff.
    Last edited by player1_fanatic; 07-16-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #550
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array StarJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bran187 View Post
    Because it's borderline dishonest, will cause people to have poor experiences, and create a distrust/distaste of the Asus brand. Not to mention create additional confusion about a product, which Asus refuses to clarify or release documentation about..
    Well said, Bran. You're a little more diplomatic than me. I think it is straight up dishonest.

    StarJack
    GL702VMK

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