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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
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    Quote Originally Posted by quark54 View Post
    Not true, of course it's not "hard to have too much of anything". Too many fans generate turbulence and compromise cooling. Too many fans generate way too much noise and aren't required.

    Justin is correct! Orientating your fans so that internal case air passes through the radiator is a viable option. The alternative is to have the rad fans set up so that cool air passes through the rad [for lowest CPU temp] but also pushes all of the heat generated by the CPU right into the case, resulting in higher motherboard VRM temps, higher graphics card temps etc.

    And when we consider that the OP's issue is actually enclosure temps that are too high.... then rad fans orientated to blow out of the enclosure is certainly worth trying. Both orientations are commonly opted for and both orientations are viable.

    Justin is also spot on regarding push/pull... in terms of fans, it's all about the velocity of the air that passes through the heat sink or radiator. With push/pull, the velocity of the air passing through remains the same. Extra fans won't increase airflow velocity. What they will do is increase static pressure marginally, and the effect of this is to drop temperatures by just a few degrees. Push/pull is unlikely to cool greater than an extra 2-4 degrees.

    A prime example is the the Noctua NH-D15S air cooler. With two fans instead of one, the temp drops only two degrees..
    I'm starting to wonder if you guys have ever tried to run a push/pull setup. If I run the fans on one side and hold my hand in front of the radiator and then turn on the other side I can feel a good difference. Not 100% more, but at least 50%. The thing is that the fans on the pull side has to run faster than those on the push side otherwise the push fans has to use power to turn the inside fans as well. I tried a push pull with 2 fans connected to eachother, and the difference in throughput was very noticeable. And an extra 2-4C is everything for noise reduction. At low CPU utilization my radiator will cool the water around 3C, during a stress test it will cool the water as much as 6C or more.
    [/URL]

  2. #12
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
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    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
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    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
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    Quote Originally Posted by quark54 View Post
    Not true, of course it's not "hard to have too much of anything". Too many fans generate turbulence and compromise cooling. Too many fans generate way too much noise and aren't required.
    1. The turbulence is dependent on the way the fans are placed. If you have input distributed on the whole frontside of the cabinet and the output distributed on both sides of the motherboard on the backside of the cabinet, it won't be much turbulence. (I'm not sure what I'll do with the cooling of the rear HDD rack, since that fan, blowing in, will create turbulence on the MB side of the cabinet, I'll probably turn it around and just use it as an extra output.)

    2. Within reason there's hard to have too much of anything. It all depends on the setup. People say that I don't need 2 pumps, sure, I don't need 2, but the second one gives me an extra 50% flow, which will cool my system better. When it comes to fans it's exactly the same thing. 2 fans in push/pull, or 2 pumps in series, can run at a lower speed than only one. 2 fans that gives off 25dB (low speed) will give less noise than 1 fan that has to run at 35dB to get the same throughput.

    When it comes to hardware, GPU's for instance 1080 sli is hardly worth the cost, unless you run 4K or better, and the games you play (or whatever you use your computer for) really need the extra push. Or running to Xenon CPU's, there are people who do that as well. Most of this only shows up in benchmarks and looks great on the top 10 boards. So, yes, too much is a waste.

    If you check my profile you will find pictures of my rig.
    [/URL]

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
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    Your MO-RA3 9x120 PRO has fin geometry optimized for slower-spinning fans. Push-pull is overkill (not really needed) for your setup but it will work fine.

    All of your rear-chassis fans should be configured as intakes. Suck cool air into the chassis.
    All of your front-chassis fans (18 on the rad) should be configured as exhaust. Blow warm air across the rad then out of the chassis.
    This will give you a negative-pressure system, though you might be able to balance it into a neutral-pressure system through the fan controller.

    All of the space inside your chassis should be as clear of rear-to-front airflow obstructions as possible. You want air to blow across the motherboard, VRMs, RAM, etc - you don't want to block it with loose cables and wiring, empty drive cages, etc. Installing top-mounted (or side-mounted, internal-mounted, etc) fans will indeed cause turbulence, recirculation, and dead-air zones. Fans which disrupt the airflow will not move heat out of your system, they will only create eddies which trap it inside.

    Your Strix card uses an "improved" nonreference triple-fan cooling system. It does arguably do a superior job of cooling the card itself, some of the heat is exhausted out the rear of the chassis, some of the heat flows over the edges and back into the middle of your motherboard. You really should leverage the cooling potential of that ridiculously huge rad and have a CPU + GPU cooling loop - you can wait and replace it with a ROG GTX1080 Poseidon or you can buy a waterblock/backplate refit kit (from EKWB, Bitspower, etc). (Indeed, you really should leverage the multi-GPU potential of your X99 mobo and have a x16/x16 GTX1080 setup, but I also think such efforts will automatically be doomed to overheat if not liquid cooled. You paid more buying X99 instead of Skylake, lol, so why not use it properly?)

    Your PSU has an integrated fan as well. It might need to be reversed for best overall (whole system, not just PSU) cooling efficiency - opening up the PSU is not at all hard to do but also not recommended for novices, so entirely ignoring this one fan could be good advice.

    If you disbelieve all the advice everyone here gives you about rads and fans then you really should google it up. Read some reviews about your particular radiator and fan products, for starters. Check out all the builds at these ROG Forums or at other gaming/performance forums. Take special note about how the rads and fans are positioned, oriented, and used in all these systems, lol. This is basically a passive cooling system, it cannot reduce temps below ambient (like an active refrigeration, subzero, or exotic cooling system), it's only and entirely about moving heat from one place to another place (ideally to a place outside the system).
    Last edited by Korth; 12-11-2016 at 12:20 AM.

  4. #14
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
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    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
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    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Your MO-RA3 9x120 PRO has fin geometry optimized for slower-spinning fans. Push-pull is overkill (not really needed) for your setup but it will work fine.

    All of your rear-chassis fans should be configured as intakes. Suck cool air into the chassis.
    All of your front-chassis fans (18 on the rad) should be configured as exhaust. Blow warm air across the rad then out of the chassis.
    This will give you a negative-pressure system, though you might be able to balance it into a neutral-pressure system through the fan controller.

    All of the space inside your chassis should be as clear of rear-to-front airflow obstructions as possible. You want air to blow across the motherboard, VRMs, RAM, etc - you don't want to block it with loose cables and wiring, empty drive cages, etc. Installing top-mounted (or side-mounted, internal-mounted, etc) fans will indeed cause turbulence, recirculation, and dead-air zones. Fans which disrupt the airflow will not move heat out of your system, they will only create eddies which trap it inside.

    Your Strix card uses an "improved" nonreference triple-fan cooling system. It does arguably do a superior job of cooling the card itself, some of the heat is exhausted out the rear of the chassis, some of the heat flows over the edges and back into the middle of your motherboard. You really should leverage the cooling potential of that ridiculously huge rad and have a CPU + GPU cooling loop - you can wait and replace it with a ROG GTX1080 Poseidon or you can buy a waterblock/backplate refit kit (from EKWB, Bitspower, etc). (Indeed, you really should leverage the multi-GPU potential of your X99 mobo and have a x16/x16 GTX1080 setup, but I also think such efforts will automatically be doomed to overheat if not liquid cooled. You paid more buying X99 instead of Skylake, lol, so why not use it properly?)

    Your PSU has an integrated fan as well. It might need to be reversed for best overall (whole system, not just PSU) cooling efficiency - opening up the PSU is not at all hard to do but also not recommended for novices, so entirely ignoring this one fan could be good advice.

    If you disbelieve all the advice everyone here gives you about rads and fans then you really should google it up. Read some reviews about your particular radiator and fan products, for starters. Check out all the builds at these ROG Forums or at other gaming/performance forums. Take special note about how the rads and fans are positioned, oriented, and used in all these systems, lol. This is basically a passive cooling system, it cannot reduce temps below ambient (like an active refrigeration, subzero, or exotic cooling system), it's only and entirely about moving heat from one place to another place (ideally to a place outside the system).
    There are a few things.

    Changing direction of the air-flow is something I won't do, unless forced too, because of the work involved. I would have to dismantle the MB and water system.

    Cables, ahh, yeah, easier said than done with all the cables I use. 9 sata cables, 5 6-pin power cables and 5 8-pins, temp cables, 7 Aquabus cables, 4 LED strips with cables, 6 fan cables and probably more. Most of them are ok, but some can't be kept away from the centre of the cabinet, the power cables to the MB and the sata cables that is fastened to the radiator, mostly between the fans, but not completely. Then you have the reservoir and the HDD rack in the back, underneath the PSU. I tried to make it nice looking in the beginning, but had to give up, because of all the things I wanted to put inside it. All cables are nicely sleeved and all that stuff (the biggest job of all heheh), but they still stick out.

    I haven't gotten the Strix card yet. Ordered it over a month ago, but Asus doesn't produce them fast enough I guess.

    Isn't negative pressure a no, no? I'm trying to create a neutral pressure, but rather on the positive than the negative side. With the fan setup I have now it's far too easy to make a negative pressure, so I adjust the in and out stream as best I can to keep it neutral.

    The fans seldom goes above 50%, even when doing a stability test with Aida64, so I think it's ok with the radiator. It cools about 2C on normal (no fans, only pumps) and up to 6C at full CPU use.
    [/URL]

  5. #15
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
    Headset/Speakers Logitech z906
    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
    Network RouterZyxel P8702N
    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
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    Btw, my PC is naned Poseidon-03 and I have a company (not much activity) called Poseidon PC-build.
    [/URL]

  6. #16
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array
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    I would think a push-pull system, which gives more throughput,
    A push pull system doesn't give "more throughput". It's only static pressure that increases to a very small degree. The velocity of the air passing through remains the same.

    Have you told us yet what your temps are? You say your enclosure temps are an issue because the air can't get out. So what are your temps? VRM temp? Graphics card temp?

  7. #17
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sverre View Post
    1. The turbulence is dependent on the way the fans are placed. If you have input distributed on the whole frontside of the cabinet and the output distributed on both sides of the motherboard on the backside of the cabinet, it won't be much turbulence. (I'm not sure what I'll do with the cooling of the rear HDD rack, since that fan, blowing in, will create turbulence on the MB side of the cabinet, I'll probably turn it around and just use it as an extra output.)

    2. Within reason there's hard to have too much of anything. It all depends on the setup. People say that I don't need 2 pumps, sure, I don't need 2, but the second one gives me an extra 50% flow, which will cool my system better. When it comes to fans it's exactly the same thing. 2 fans in push/pull, or 2 pumps in series, can run at a lower speed than only one. 2 fans that gives off 25dB (low speed) will give less noise than 1 fan that has to run at 35dB to get the same throughput.

    When it comes to hardware, GPU's for instance 1080 sli is hardly worth the cost, unless you run 4K or better, and the games you play (or whatever you use your computer for) really need the extra push. Or running to Xenon CPU's, there are people who do that as well. Most of this only shows up in benchmarks and looks great on the top 10 boards. So, yes, too much is a waste.

    If you check my profile you will find pictures of my rig.

    You need to list your temps, so we can get some idea if you actually do have a temp issue or not. CPU temp? GPU temp? VRM temp?

    Might be a good idea if you considered the following... overclocking is linear in a well balanced system. If you overclock an extra 5% you get a 5% increase in fame rate. So... at 30 frame per second, 100MHz additional overclock equates to less than ONE frame per second. Then if we consider most games are GPU biased it's even less.

    What I'm saying, is that your excessively complex cooling set up is not generating much at all in terms of additional frame rate. Great fun though, and if I mange to find your pictures I bet it looks awesome.

    Tried to find your pictures can't see them.

  8. #18
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array
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    P.S... Your home is absolutely stunning!!! I'm very jealous as I sit here in the UK in a typical suburb.

    I love cats too. Have a crazy kitten at the moment.

  9. #19
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
    Headset/Speakers Logitech z906
    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
    Network RouterZyxel P8702N
    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
    Accessory #2 Aquaero 6xt + a lot of water cooling stuff.
    Accessory #3 UPS BlueWalker PW UPS VI 2200 SH

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    Quote Originally Posted by quark54 View Post
    A push pull system doesn't give "more throughput". It's only static pressure that increases to a very small degree. The velocity of the air passing through remains the same.

    Have you told us yet what your temps are? You say your enclosure temps are an issue because the air can't get out. So what are your temps? VRM temp? Graphics card temp?
    So, when I place my hand 50cm infront of a single fan and feel the air flow, connect another fan and feel the air fow much harder, I'm fantasising?

    I have no problems with heat from the CPU or GPU, I'm just experimenting and trying to reduce the heat better, with as little noise as possible.

    *
    [/URL]

  10. #20
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
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    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
    Network RouterZyxel P8702N
    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
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    Accessory #3 UPS BlueWalker PW UPS VI 2200 SH

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    Quote Originally Posted by quark54 View Post
    You need to list your temps, so we can get some idea if you actually do have a temp issue or not. CPU temp? GPU temp? VRM temp?

    Might be a good idea if you considered the following... overclocking is linear in a well balanced system. If you overclock an extra 5% you get a 5% increase in fame rate. So... at 30 frame per second, 100MHz additional overclock equates to less than ONE frame per second. Then if we consider most games are GPU biased it's even less.

    What I'm saying, is that your excessively complex cooling set up is not generating much at all in terms of additional frame rate. Great fun though, and if I mange to find your pictures I bet it looks awesome.

    Tried to find your pictures can't see them.
    *https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...613#post617613

    As I said in the other reply, I have no problems with the temps, at least not until I get the 1080 card, but it's plenty to go on. I had to overclock the5960 to 4.6GHz before the CPU package reached 100C, and that was without optimal cooling. At 4.7 it crashed after a few minutes of running Aida64's stresstest. I'm running it on 4.4GHz with 1.35V until everything is in place.

    To be clear, I'm doing this for the hell of it, not because I need it, I just want to build a system I can run at max settings without hearing the fans run. **
    [/URL]

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