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  1. #21
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
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    Quote Originally Posted by quark54 View Post
    P.S... Your home is absolutely stunning!!! I'm very jealous as I sit here in the UK in a typical suburb.

    I love cats too. Have a crazy kitten at the moment.
    After I retired I moved out of the suburbs as fast as humanly possible, got a dog, in addition to my cats, and just started to do whatever I wanted to (like watching the whole season 2 of 24 hours without a break). *
    [/URL]

  2. #22
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
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    lol @Sverre - if you aren't willing to (properly) remount your fans or clean your cable clutter then what's the point of this thread? You say "too much heat in cabinet" - because, everyone here tells you, you've built your cooling system wrong - but you aren't willing to do any of the work needed to fix it?

    Simply buying heavy cooling hardware and stuffing it all wherever it seems to fit into the chassis isn't going to produce great results. Every chassis maker provides tons of fan mounts and rad mounts, they're there so that the buyer can select from a wider array of possible hardware options and configurations, they're rarely intended to all be populated at once (at least they're not in your case).

    I wouldn't personally buy a PC build from your company, sorry - but from what I've read, I'm of the opinion that the guy building these PCs doesn't really know what he's doing.
    Last edited by Korth; 12-12-2016 at 02:39 AM.

  3. #23
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
    Headset/Speakers Logitech z906
    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
    Network RouterZyxel P8702N
    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    lol @Sverre - if you aren't willing to (properly) remount your fans or clean your cable clutter then what's the point of this thread? You say "too much heat in cabinet" - because, everyone here tells you, you've built your cooling system wrong - but you aren't willing to do any of the work needed to fix it?

    Simply buying heavy cooling hardware and stuffing it all wherever it seems to fit into the chassis isn't going to produce great results. Every chassis maker provides tons of fan mounts and rad mounts, they're there so that the buyer can select from a wider array of possible hardware options and configurations, they're rarely intended to all be populated at once (at least they're not in your case). *

    I wouldn't personally buy a PC build from your company, sorry - but from what I've read, I'm of the opinion that the guy building these PCs doesn't really know what he's doing.
    No, everyone doesn't tell me what I'm doing is wrong. There has been suggestions that I should suck the air from inside the cabinet out, through the radiator. That might very well be a viable option, but I don't want to do a job of that magnitude unless I have high confidence it will work. There has been some people telling me that 2 fans in a push/pull configuration doesnt work, well, they do, I've tested it, and there are experts on water cooling that has done it themselves. It's not science on a high level that 2 does more than 1, maybe not double the work, but still more. The science in it is how to set them up to give best possible effect. This cabinet has several options you can buy, I've opted for fans in the front and the back, to let the air pass through the case as fast as possible with the least resistance possible. The radiator cools the water very well, but there are some heat transported into the cabinet because of this. The thing is to get that heat transported out of the cabinet as soon as possible before it, and other heatsources that might be in the cabinet, starts to Heat the water. To do that I need throughput. I need fans that can suck that air out as fast as it is let in, and I need to get the air from everywhere inside the cabinet, that's where the turbulance comes in. The cable clutter is a problem, but I need all those cables, and I've done the best I can about them. I don't think they are too much of a problem though.

    Ps.
    The last line in your post was unwarranted. The way you word it indicates that you are directing it to people who read the post, no to me, you are also using my companies name in the same sentence, which will give a very good hit on search enginees and lead those who read it to a conclusion that might not be correct, but I figure you know that very well. I'm a bit uncertain as to what qualifications you have that makes you so certain I'm wrong? You run a very basic rig yourself, about the same as my spare rig, which is also a 750D, although the processor is my old 3960 and the GPU is a 1060 I bought because I needed it to play some games, so what experience do you have?
    Last edited by Sverre; 12-12-2016 at 05:06 AM.
    [/URL]

  4. #24
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
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    You're correct, the last line in my previous post was insulting - I've edited out your company name and stated that it's my personal opinion. I have several rigs and the "gaming" one listed in my system specs here can run full stress tests (like Prime95, Super PI, Passmark, AIDA, etc), completely uninterrupted, completely unattended, with a modest multi-core overclock for at least a full 24 hours without ever exceeding 55C in a 35C environment. That's also without liquid-cooling, with less than half the fans you have, and probably with far, far less noise. I haven't seen a crash or "BSoD" on any of my operating systems for many months. I'm a BMET/EE whose work involves tons of CAD, simulations, microcoding, fabbing, troubleshooting, and CNC - I've started working with PCs by soldering memory SIPPs onto 286 mobos and consider myself an avid PC enthusiast, not always an "innovator" but always an "early adopter" of performance technologies - you can decide if that's an adequate qualification or not.

    Your logic about the fans/rad is flawed. I'm convinced that you would see measurable differences in your system temps if you were willing to follow the advice myself and others have offered. We've all been there before, all it takes is some methodical experimenting and testing and measuring to find out what works best and what doesn't work well at all.

  5. #25
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Sverre PC Specs
    Sverre PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus Maximus X Formula
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-8700K
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4B3200C15
    Graphics Card #1ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Graphics Card #2ROG Poseidon GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti
    Monitor1 x Asus 27" LED FreeSync MG278Q + 2 x Benq XL2420T
    Storage #1C-drive: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    Storage #2D-drive: Force Series LS 480GB
    CPU CoolerEK-Supremacy MX
    CaseCooler Master Cosmos C700P
    Power SupplyCorsair AX1500i
    Keyboard Corsair Gaming K95 RGB PLATINUM
    Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB FSP
    Headset Logitech G930
    Mouse Pad Built into the computer table
    Headset/Speakers Logitech z906
    OS Windows 10 pro 64-bit
    Network RouterZyxel P8702N
    Accessory #1 Several HDD’s 1, 2 and 3 TB
    Accessory #2 Aquaero 6xt + a lot of water cooling stuff.
    Accessory #3 UPS BlueWalker PW UPS VI 2200 SH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    You're correct, the last line in my previous post was insulting - I've edited out your company name and stated that it's my personal opinion. I have several rigs and the "gaming" one listed in my system specs here can run full stress tests (like Prime95, Super PI, Passmark, AIDA, etc), completely uninterrupted, completely unattended, with a modest multi-core overclock for at least a full 24 hours without ever exceeding 55C in a 35C environment. That's also without liquid-cooling, with less than half the fans you have, and probably with far, far less noise. I haven't seen a crash or "BSoD" on any of my operating systems for many months. I'm a BMET/EE whose work involves tons of CAD, simulations, microcoding, fabbing, troubleshooting, and CNC - I've started working with PCs by soldering memory SIPPs onto 286 mobos and consider myself an avid PC enthusiast, not always an "innovator" but always an "early adopter" of performance technologies - you can decide if that's an adequate qualification or not.

    Your logic about the fans/rad is flawed. I'm convinced that you would see measurable differences in your system temps if you were willing to follow the advice myself and others have offered. We've all been there before, all it takes is some methodical experimenting and testing and measuring to find out what works best and what doesn't work well at all.
    So, it's time to flex our muscles?

    I started building my first computer in 1980. A friend of mine wanted an Apple IIe, but he didn't have the money. So we built one, from scratch. Since we werent able to etch the circuit board on both sides we had to use wire strapping. It looked like crap, but it worked. We bought every single chip, diode, resistor an capacitor in a local shop, we went to a local business to etch the circuit board and we sat down every evening and worked on it. This was while I was studying to electronic engineer. I have worked in the North Sea, positioning drills and survey vesels with first generation sat nav, I have worked on Jan Mayen with communication systems like Loran-C, I have worked for the armed forces with Forward Scatter communication. In 1985 (or 1984, not sure) I bought my first PC, an Olivetti M24. It came with Windows 1.02, but it wouldn't work with my color monitor (Cyan, Yellow and Magenta), so I had to wait for 1.03. I have worked with CPU's since you could see the whole damned thing on a sheet of paper and easily understand what was happening along the way. I have worked with every single DOS (and any other crazy dos type program made for PC's) since 2.11 (might have been earlier) through today. I have programmed in Cobol, Fortran, Pascal, Basic, Turbo Pascal, Visual Basic, Omnis-7, C, Assembler, machine code and god knows what else. After I got tired of programming I started with user support, but people aren't my thing, so I got into hardware, on the serious level. In my last job I worked for an international brokering company with offices in Europe, Asia and America. I was responsible for the serverpark (which I assembled myself), the LAN and the WAN. The WAN connected all offices in the world together over private leased lines. I have also several certifications from Microsoft, Cisco and others taken in Europe and the US.

    I'm not a master of everything in the world, but I know a little, and what little I know about mechanics, and physics in general is that 2 fans in serial will push more air. I also know a little about termodynamics and aerodynamics, and I would expect the best way to remove heat was to use the coolest possible air to do the hardest part of the cooling, and then to use the fans to remove the warmed up air as fast as possible. There has been some suggestions here that I have a hard time accepting, I understand the thought behind it, but can't see benefits to it that I am willing to spend several days work on investigating.

    *
    [/URL]

  6. #26
    TeamROG Moderator Array xeromist PC Specs
    xeromist PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Dell Inspiron 15 7567
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    Sverre,

    My experience has been similar. My first WC build I had my fans push+pull at the front as intake through the rad and my case temps were quite high. It felt unnatural to me to exhaust out the front. However in subsequent builds I always exhaust through the rads and I've not had a problem since. The logic is as such: your rad will effectively cool the loop at any ambient (intake) as long as there is a reasonable temperature delta and the loop isn't heat soaked from the rad being undersized.

    To think about it another way, even if your house is 20c in winter and 30c in summer you see a very small difference in system temps. That's because even though lower intake temp is better the rad just needs a temperature delta. So rather than dumping the warm air into your case I would accept the slightly higher intake temp so you can just get the heat out into a room which can absorb and dissipate it much better. You may have a very slightly higher loop temp but it's unlikely to be noticeable and the rest of your components will benefit.

    As for push/pull I've seen several people do tests and ultimately find that the temperature difference was negligible. Even if you have higher airflow the rad doesn't dissipate much more heat. The problem is if you have a very restrictive radiator and weak fans the air will heat saturate before it can leave the radiator. As long as that doesn't happen extra air isn't going to matter.

    That said, if you want to keep push+pull it's unlikely to hurt anything. The main thing is you need to be exhausting through that rad.
    * Support disease research with Folding@Home *

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sverre View Post
    So, when I place my hand 50cm infront of a single fan and feel the air flow, connect another fan and feel the air fow much harder, I'm fantasising?



    *
    Putting your hand in front of it tells you nothing. Feelings tell us noting about the nature of reality. Measure the temperature! Accurate data tells us everything. It's well known that push/pull has minimal effect.

    Again... as I mentioned earlier, the Noctua NH-D15 is a prime example. One fan is only two degrees warmer for the reasons I previously mentioned. It's up to you to decide if a couple of degrees cooler per fan is worth it.


    I have no problems with heat from the CPU or GPU, I'm just experimenting and trying to reduce the heat better, with as little noise as possible.
    You have an incredible 28 fans I recall!!! Nobody would regard 28 fans as anything other than VERY excessive.

    Again... what are your enclosure temperatures? Telling us it's too warm inside means nothing. What's the CPU temp under load? Whats the GPU temp under load? Whats the VRM temp under load?

  8. #28
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    I'm running it on 4.4GHz with 1.35V until everything is in place.
    I run a 6700K at 4.6 Ghz. That's with a Noctua NH-D15S cooler. GPU is a 980Ti. My case is a Lian Li X510 with 5 120 fans. As I speak to you I cant hear the fans in my enclosure, dead quiet. If I play a game like BF4, again very quiet. The PWM, temperature controlled fans don't need to ramp up to high RPM at all. Zero issues and ultra quiet and ultra cool. You on the other hand have a huge amount of fans, expensive custom loop and have temp issue. Clearly you are in need of a complete rethink as to your strategy.

    I have 5 case fans, dead quiet, not even having to run at full speed. You have a truck load of fans and have issues. Do you see something amiss there?

    Unfortunately, you haven't told us exactly what your motherboard temps are. Thus we have no idea if you really do have excessive temps or not!
    Last edited by quark54; 12-12-2016 at 11:56 AM.

  9. #29
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    I'm not a master of everything in the world, but I know a little, and what little I know about mechanics, and physics in general is that 2 fans in serial will push more air.
    Yes of course... but not by much! Maybe you should measure the temperature with one fan and two fans and find out. Too fans have minimal effect. Again..... the only increase is in terms of static pressure. The fan RPM's remain the same, thus the velocity of the air passing through the heat sink is the same. This is basic physics!

    Same applies to enclosure fans. Adding extra fans to your enclosure, reduces internal temps by less than you think, once you get past two or three fans. It's a case of diminishing returns. I know this from my own personnel experience over many years. At 58, I've lost count of how many PC's I've built or modded.

    From Linus tech tips. Only three degrees cooler with Push/pull.

    From 2:22 Only static pressure increases.

    From 2: 50. Advice is no to push/pull. Better to use single fans that are optimised for static pressure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyC3lZ5WFMk

    Here... push/pull only 3 degrees cooler. Due to better static pressure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7JMOcypus

    NH-D15S review here. Two fans only reduces temp by 2 degrees...

    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...NH-D15S/6.html

    There has been some suggestions here that I have a hard time accepting, I understand the thought behind it, but can't see benefits to it that I am willing to spend several days work on investigating.
    Are you referring to orientating you rad so that warmer enclosure air passed through the rad to the outside?

    If yes, this was suggested to you BECAUSE you have enclosure temp issues!

    As previously stated... You have two options...

    1. Ingest cool air in from the outside, which then passes through the rad. This results in lowest CPU temp. However, that configuration also pushes all the CPU heat from the rad straight inside your enclosure. Thus higher enclosure temps. [And you said that was an issue for you]

    2. Exhaust warmer enclosure air through the rad and vent it outside. Result, somewhat warmer CPU temp. However, as you are exhausting warm air from the rad to the outside, internal enclosure temps are lower.

    Common sense dictated that we should suggest option 2 to you... because you told us your enclosure temps were too high!

    Tell us... what the temperature is inside your enclosure! Motherboard temp? VRM temp? What are they?
    Last edited by quark54; 12-12-2016 at 12:13 PM.

  10. #30
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
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    @Sverre - it's evident that you and I are not destined to accomplish anything useful here.

    I'm out of your thread. Good luck with your build.

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