View Poll Results: The Best MOBA game

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  • LoL

    81 27.84%
  • DOTA 2

    161 55.33%
  • Other

    49 16.84%
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  1. #111
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    Dota 2 is better IMO

    First off I'll just say it now... Dota 2 is better, and I have played them both casually and competitively achieving challenger for two/three years in LoL and competiting in WESG APAC regionals for Dota 2 so maybe my word will be a lot more influential than others (those who only played one, I'm looking at you).

    1. Heroes and Abilities - LoL > Dota 2

    Both MOBAs have the typical 5v5 and a wide variety of heroes / champions to choose from, I always see people comparing them and in 90% of the comparisons made LoL players will say Dota 2 heroes are way more diverse and interesting whereas Dota 2 players will say LoL champions are more diverse and varied. General consensus is that the new and unknown game will always have the more interesting heroes. But having played both quite a bit I will say LoL takes the cake with this one, heroes with multiple forms like Jayce and Nidalee are always interesting and a lot of champions that can manipulate or use terrain to their advantage like Poppy or Anivia. To top it all off, runes / masteries / AP and AD scaling and summoner spells all create a huge variety for a way to play a certain champion. Sure, there are optimal ways to play a champion but there are always different ways to play a champion to suit your playstyle. AP and AD variants create 2 champions out of one like AD/AP malzahar or AD/AP shaco, other ways that utilize masteries and runes can create different builds for champions like tank/AD Rengar or Tank/AP/AD Ekko and even Tank Jayce. I mainly played Tank Jayce to get Challenger which says something about the variety.

    In Dota 2 all heroes are generally played the same, you do see a few outliers like a vengeful spirit going carry or gyrocopter going support but the heroes themselves are the same, they just build different items. There are unique heroes like Meepo, Chen and Invoker but they don't really raise the bar too high. LoL also releases a champion every few weeks while Dota 2 can take months.

    2. Map, Movements and Vision - Dota 2 > LoL

    Both Dota 2 and LoL are better in their own ways. LoL has an extra big advantage option (Dragon) along with red and blue buffs which sort of adds a PVE element to it as well. Bushes are there to jump people and make jukes (BIG PLAYS) but the map is small and the trees and environment are two dimensional (meaning a tree has the same effect as a cliff they just look different). You can't really TP in LoL unless you have the summoner spell so rotations rely on you running to other lanes which generally allow the enemy team to capitalize on objectives / kills if they know where you are. Vision is important and with vision you can play around all the bad foreseeable outcomes which makes the game bland and plain boring (IMO), there just isn't much variety in what can happen.

    In Dota 2 the map is bigger, contains more environment you can interact with (you can even cut trees to create paths). You can stack the neutral camps and save them for farming later and runes itself add a huge variety and depth to the game. With big movement items like blink and TP you can move around the map at any given moment (you can TP to allies). Smoke adds a huge feature in Dota 2 in which you aren't visible to the enemy unless you get close to them or a tower, there is scan to counteract this but the point is, you can be anywhere and the enemy can't 100% predict where you'll be and what you'll do. There was just a new update in Dota 2 adding shrines and changing the map around so there's a lot more to offer now.

    3. Different approaches and strategies- Dota 2 > LoL

    There is no doubt about this one, I'm sure everyone can agree with me, the world of Dota 2 is far more varied than one on the Summoner's Rift. Let's look at the typical draft first, in LoL it is almost the same every game, 1 top 1 mid 1 jungler and 1 support / ADC bot... You rarely see anything different and the worst it can get is a lane swap so top goes bottom and bottom goes top. There was a game where a Korean team ran an all mid push strat with Heimerdinger but I'll have more on that later. In Dota 2 there are way too many strategies that are used, sometimes 3 people in one lane, 2 people mid, 2 junglers... And the list goes on, but if you've watched or played Dota 2 you will know what I mean. Every game can start off differently and there isn't the exact same "lets trade farm for the first 15 minutes" that happens in all solo queue games in LoL.

    4. Denying - Dota 2 > LoL

    I have to bring this one up because the most common argument I have seen on the internet is "You can deny in Dota 2 but you can't in LoL", this is both true and false. In Dota 2 yes you can kill your own creeps so they give no gold and less exp to the enemy, you can't do this in LoL. However what you can do in LoL is indirectly deny creeps by pushing them to the enemy tower and get that to kill them for you, obviously when the enemy just went back or is roaming. You can also zone the enemy champion by standing on the other side of the way to deny too but this require you to be at a higher skill level than the opponent or have a better jungler. In Dota 2 "zoning" the offlaner is pretty much the same as denying him of farm so I feel this should count in LoL too.

    5. Casual gaming - LoL > Dota 2

    As a casual player, both games are similar in this respect as it lets you play with your friends and run strategies together or just play together as a group. In Dota 2 there are loads of strategies that will be viable and fun which makes the game fresh, you can run all carries, 4 junglers(????) do insane push or all in strats and they will all work decently well. I've seen all these random strategies that people use in LoL that work well like 5 man tps or double bruiser bot lane or something. They are all fun to do and you can pull it off against other casual players easily. You can talk and strategize with friends making different things work but they only work to a certain level. As a casual LoL / Dota 2 player there are lots of different ways you can play the game and most of them will be viable at that level of play. The LoL community is a LOT bigger and there are way more events to follow with LoL so maybe that will be better if you are in it casually.

    6. Competitive gaming - Depends on what you are after

    Dota 2 has the bigger prize pool, this year's International was almost $21 million USD, far superior to LoL's $5 million. The best in Dota 2 make a lot more money than everyone else and same goes for LoL but the curve isn't as steep. There are championship series for LoL which give players a set salary on the games they play during the Season if they manage to make it in making Riot the main sponsor for most people. In Dota 2 prize money will be the main source of income even though sponsors do pay out to some extent.

    Dota 2 requires a lot of teamwork and trust whereas LoL just requires a lot of individual skill. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong but this is very true to a certain extent. In LoL you even have Korean players in NA / Chinese teams and they don't even speak the language fluently. I know these teams don't perform that great so you can argue that teamwork isn't needed but imagine a team of the 5 best players in the world, they can outskill and there wouldn't really be much teamwork needed because it is very easy to play with each other in the game as long as you have the information.

    In Dota 2 there are so many things that can happen in the game and so many things for you to watch out for that make the game very hard, there are TPs, smoke, runes, blinks and even buy backs so you can't really visualize what's going to happen ahead of time, you just go with the flow with the information you have. In LoL the game is boring and has nothing much to offer, early game the only variable is the jungler and you can play around almost everything as long as you have the information and it's very easy to see the options. This is why Koreans are always the best in LoL (and SC2), because they rehearse a lot and can process information quick, it's easy to win when you can rehearse the same game plan 100 times and have no variables that make it go wrong (as long as you have skill to execute). If you see a jungler bottom you know the options are dive tower or get dragon so you can either play around top or countergank bot depending on what you have available. If the enemy top laner used tp you know he can't tp for 4 or 5 minutes so you can send your top laner to split push and maybe secure baron area. Vision can also decrease the number of various game playouts as well, if you can plan how long it will take an enemy to arrive somewhere or look at where can they be in the next 30 seconds you can play around that. If somebody is dead he is dead, no buy back so you also have information there whether you are stronger or not to take an inhibitor or something. Don't get me started on Dota 2... There is way too much that can happen and you can't rehearse anything you just have to trust your intuition and teammates.

    7. Watching as a Sport - Dota 2 > LoL

    Both games have hype and action, amazing crowds and massive prize pools. But I just need to say one thing here and that is: SKT1 won the past 3 LoL World Championships and the Koreans have dominated the scene. LoL games have the same strategies and picks/bans every single game it just feels like you are watching it more to see the players play not the actual game being played itself. The only game that stood out for me in LoL was the Heimerdinger all mid push strat which is definitely worth a watch. However Dota 2 is amazing in the eyes of a specator, there are still the main picks/bans but almost all heroes are picked and there are a LOT of strategies run with some of them being new and fresh. Dota 2 has become a great game to watch because there is so much variety and you never can predict who will win. Some of the most hyped up teams can come last place whereas a new random team like Ad Finem can come 2nd place in the Boston Major. So much can happen in a game that it will leave your mind puzzled and have you thinking what just happened. There are insane moments with buy backs, clutch spell usage, smokes and a lot more which makes every point of the game fun to watch. Meta is always changing and created even though patches stay the same, I think Wings were the first to run SD Luna and that itself created the illusion meta with SD being picked almost every game despite never being picked up before.

    I've said way too much here but hopefully it truly shows how much better Dota 2 is overall, LoL can still be picked up as a if you have some friends playing it but if you are looking at a new game to start, Dota 2 is definitely the better MOBA.
    Last edited by Sh3pathome; 12-14-2016 at 08:59 AM.

  2. #112
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    Seems like DOTA2 has a commanding lead. I'm giggling at the LoL crowd

  3. #113
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    Lightbulb Heyy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh3pathome View Post
    First off I'll just say it now... Dota 2 is better, and I have played them both casually and competitively achieving challenger for two/three years in LoL and competiting in WESG APAC regionals for Dota 2 so maybe my word will be a lot more influential than others (those who only played one, I'm looking at you).

    1. Heroes and Abilities - LoL > Dota 2

    Both MOBAs have the typical 5v5 and a wide variety of heroes / champions to choose from, I always see people comparing them and in 90% of the comparisons made LoL players will say Dota 2 heroes are way more diverse and interesting whereas Dota 2 players will say LoL champions are more diverse and varied. General consensus is that the new and unknown game will always have the more interesting heroes. But having played both quite a bit I will say LoL takes the cake with this one, heroes with multiple forms like Jayce and Nidalee are always interesting and a lot of champions that can manipulate or use terrain to their advantage like Poppy or Anivia. To top it all off, runes / masteries / AP and AD scaling and summoner spells all create a huge variety for a way to play a certain champion. Sure, there are optimal ways to play a champion but there are always different ways to play a champion to suit your playstyle. AP and AD variants create 2 champions out of one like AD/AP malzahar or AD/AP shaco, other ways that utilize masteries and runes can create different builds for champions like tank/AD Rengar or Tank/AP/AD Ekko and even Tank Jayce. I mainly played Tank Jayce to get Challenger which says something about the variety.

    In Dota 2 all heroes are generally played the same, you do see a few outliers like a vengeful spirit going carry or gyrocopter going support but the heroes themselves are the same, they just build different items. There are unique heroes like Meepo, Chen and Invoker but they don't really raise the bar too high. LoL also releases a champion every few weeks while Dota 2 can take months.

    2. Map, Movements and Vision - Dota 2 > LoL

    Both Dota 2 and LoL are better in their own ways. LoL has an extra big advantage option (Dragon) along with red and blue buffs which sort of adds a PVE element to it as well. Bushes are there to jump people and make jukes (BIG PLAYS) but the map is small and the trees and environment are two dimensional (meaning a tree has the same effect as a cliff they just look different). You can't really TP in LoL unless you have the summoner spell so rotations rely on you running to other lanes which generally allow the enemy team to capitalize on objectives / kills if they know where you are. Vision is important and with vision you can play around all the bad foreseeable outcomes which makes the game bland and plain boring (IMO), there just isn't much variety in what can happen.

    In Dota 2 the map is bigger, contains more environment you can interact with (you can even cut trees to create paths). You can stack the neutral camps and save them for farming later and runes itself add a huge variety and depth to the game. With big movement items like blink and TP you can move around the map at any given moment (you can TP to allies). Smoke adds a huge feature in Dota 2 in which you aren't visible to the enemy unless you get close to them or a tower, there is scan to counteract this but the point is, you can be anywhere and the enemy can't 100% predict where you'll be and what you'll do. There was just a new update in Dota 2 adding shrines and changing the map around so there's a lot more to offer now.

    3. Different approaches and strategies- Dota 2 > LoL

    There is no doubt about this one, I'm sure everyone can agree with me, the world of Dota 2 is far more varied than one on the Summoner's Rift. Let's look at the typical draft first, in LoL it is almost the same every game, 1 top 1 mid 1 jungler and 1 support / ADC bot... You rarely see anything different and the worst it can get is a lane swap so top goes bottom and bottom goes top. There was a game where a Korean team ran an all mid push strat with Heimerdinger but I'll have more on that later. In Dota 2 there are way too many strategies that are used, sometimes 3 people in one lane, 2 people mid, 2 junglers... And the list goes on, but if you've watched or played Dota 2 you will know what I mean. Every game can start off differently and there isn't the exact same "lets trade farm for the first 15 minutes" that happens in all solo queue games in LoL.

    4. Denying - Dota 2 > LoL

    I have to bring this one up because the most common argument I have seen on the internet is "You can deny in Dota 2 but you can't in LoL", this is both true and false. In Dota 2 yes you can kill your own creeps so they give no gold and less exp to the enemy, you can't do this in LoL. However what you can do in LoL is indirectly deny creeps by pushing them to the enemy tower and get that to kill them for you, obviously when the enemy just went back or is roaming. You can also zone the enemy champion by standing on the other side of the way to deny too but this require you to be at a higher skill level than the opponent or have a better jungler. In Dota 2 "zoning" the offlaner is pretty much the same as denying him of farm so I feel this should count in LoL too.

    5. Casual gaming - LoL > Dota 2

    As a casual player, both games are similar in this respect as it lets you play with your friends and run strategies together or just play together as a group. In Dota 2 there are loads of strategies that will be viable and fun which makes the game fresh, you can run all carries, 4 junglers(????) do insane push or all in strats and they will all work decently well. I've seen all these random strategies that people use in LoL that work well like 5 man tps or double bruiser bot lane or something. They are all fun to do and you can pull it off against other casual players easily. You can talk and strategize with friends making different things work but they only work to a certain level. As a casual LoL / Dota 2 player there are lots of different ways you can play the game and most of them will be viable at that level of play. The LoL community is a LOT bigger and there are way more events to follow with LoL so maybe that will be better if you are in it casually.

    6. Competitive gaming - Depends on what you are after

    Dota 2 has the bigger prize pool, this year's International was almost $21 million USD, far superior to LoL's $5 million. The best in Dota 2 make a lot more money than everyone else and same goes for LoL but the curve isn't as steep. There are championship series for LoL which give players a set salary on the games they play during the Season if they manage to make it in making Riot the main sponsor for most people. In Dota 2 prize money will be the main source of income even though sponsors do pay out to some extent.

    Dota 2 requires a lot of teamwork and trust whereas LoL just requires a lot of individual skill. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong but this is very true to a certain extent. In LoL you even have Korean players in NA / Chinese teams and they don't even speak the language fluently. I know these teams don't perform that great so you can argue that teamwork isn't needed but imagine a team of the 5 best players in the world, they can outskill and there wouldn't really be much teamwork needed because it is very easy to play with each other in the game as long as you have the information.

    In Dota 2 there are so many things that can happen in the game and so many things for you to watch out for that make the game very hard, there are TPs, smoke, runes, blinks and even buy backs so you can't really visualize what's going to happen ahead of time, you just go with the flow with the information you have. In LoL the game is boring and has nothing much to offer, early game the only variable is the jungler and you can play around almost everything as long as you have the information and it's very easy to see the options. This is why Koreans are always the best in LoL (and SC2), because they rehearse a lot and can process information quick, it's easy to win when you can rehearse the same game plan 100 times and have no variables that make it go wrong (as long as you have skill to execute). If you see a jungler bottom you know the options are dive tower or get dragon so you can either play around top or countergank bot depending on what you have available. If the enemy top laner used tp you know he can't tp for 4 or 5 minutes so you can send your top laner to split push and maybe secure baron area. Vision can also decrease the number of various game playouts as well, if you can plan how long it will take an enemy to arrive somewhere or look at where can they be in the next 30 seconds you can play around that. If somebody is dead he is dead, no buy back so you also have information there whether you are stronger or not to take an inhibitor or something. Don't get me started on Dota 2... There is way too much that can happen and you can't rehearse anything you just have to trust your intuition and teammates.

    7. Watching as a Sport - Dota 2 > LoL

    Both games have hype and action, amazing crowds and massive prize pools. But I just need to say one thing here and that is: Samsung SKT1 won the past 3 LoL World Championships and the Koreans have dominated the scene. LoL games have the same strategies and picks/bans every single game it just feels like you are watching it more to see the players play not the actual game being played itself. The only game that stood out for me in LoL was the Heimerdinger all mid push strat which is definitely worth a watch. However Dota 2 is amazing in the eyes of a specator, there are still the main picks/bans but almost all heroes are picked and there are a LOT of strategies run with some of them being new and fresh. Dota 2 has become a great game to watch because there is so much variety and you never can predict who will win. Some of the most hyped up teams can come last place whereas a new random team like Ad Finem can come 2nd place in the Boston Major. So much can happen in a game that it will leave your mind puzzled and have you thinking what just happened. There are insane moments with buy backs, clutch spell usage, smokes and a lot more which makes every point of the game fun to watch. Meta is always changing and created even though patches stay the same, I think Wings were the first to run SD Luna and that itself created the illusion meta with SD being picked almost every game despite never being picked up before.

    I've said way too much here but hopefully it truly shows how much better Dota 2 is overall, LoL can still be picked up as a if you have some friends playing it but if you are looking at a new game to start, Dota 2 is definitely the better MOBA.

    Hello Sh3pathome, great analysis may I just say. I have made my own version of your analysis, read it if you feel like it. Let me just say that I'm siding with League, call me bias or whatsoever, these are all my opinions.

    1.Heroes and Abilities (LoL > Dota 2) -- Yes, League of Legends definitely won this. Providing champions with two forms truly provides a unique experience for players: Jayce, Nidalee, Elise, Gnar, Kled (kinda). And yes there are those champs who makes use of terrains or interacts with it, Poppy (uses wall), Anivia (idk), Talon (now parkours over walls), Skarner (has runes all over the jungle), Bard (Portal), Ivern (kinda, creates bushes), etc. And yes, summoner spells, masteries, runes, builds (hybrid, full ap, full ad, tank) also mix it all up. I believe that playing champions ALONE is a HUGE win for League, this is why many people find the game so interesting and so fun. Before considering the map itself and strategies to use, the entertainment you get from playing champions alone is what makes League so fun. And might I just say, I think the whole point of only providing 10 free champions weekly, while purchasing other champions with in-game currency (IP or RP) is to push others to stick to a few champs first and master them. Instead of picking random champions every now and then, it is better to get the hang of a few number of champions first, isn't that right? And yes, it is also a good way for them to earn money. But still, I never used any real money to buy all of the champs, I earned IP through hardwork and constant playing. Buying champions through IP will make you appreciate them, I only get to buy a new champ every few days, and when I do, I test it out immediately. With the hardwork of earning IP, I appreciated that champ. That is all. (Respect that you got Challenger with Tank Jayce, BTW what's your IGN and what server are you in?)

    2. Map, Movements and Vision (LoL > DotA 2) -- Hmm. Yes, the SEVERAL (I have to emphasize this ) different buffs provide a more diverse gameplay: Red buff (burn damage + heal,), Blue buff (Mana regeneration), 4 Elemental Dragons (Mountain, Ocean, Cloud, and Infernal), Rift Herald (single player buff), and Baron (team buff; those who are alive). Compared to DotA's buffs which is, single? Or have they added more? Even if you include the runes in the river I still think LoL wins this one.

    Yes, the map is small and the trees and cliffs are pretty much the same. Just different texture and different sizes. But doesn't the implementation of the bushes match this disadvantage? DotA 2 has interactive trees while LoL has bushes. Doesn't that make them equal? BUT, League introduced the interactable plants in League (Vision plant, "jump" plant, and the honeyfruit plant) -- you can also add the scuttler in the river that provides vision here.

    DotA has a bigger map, okay, but I believe LoL is proportionally right. Nevertheless, i'll give this one to DotA.

    TP & Rotations? I really think it's not that bad that teleportation is limited in League. It makes the it more crucial to spend it wisely, there are plays that baits the enemy of using their teleport thus giving the other person to freely push. Also, it is also critical in backing when going to shop. In DotA there is a shop in the top and bottom side and you can just buy teleport scrolls so that's what makes it boring (IMO). Also, they have couriers in DotA to bring your items. So you can just stay in lane almost forever? But in LoL, it makes you choose wisely: when to use your teleport spell, when to back, and when to push lane. I maybe biased, but I think LoL wins this one.

    Vision? you said that in League vision makes it boring because players can avoid and foresee the bad outcomes. Actually that good in a MOBA, vision control. It's still strategy. Nevertheless, there are oracle lenses and control wards that counter the vision of the enemy. So it all depends on how well you place wards, how you destroy the enemy's wards, and signalling to your jungler where the enemy placed their ward. Vision wins the game, mostly. But vision is not something that cannot be bypassed. I'm sure that this doesn't make the game boring, but rather makes it more challenging to be honest.

    I believe LoL wins this one.

    3.Different approaches and strategies (Dota 2 =/= LoL) Here, you talk about the roles. I don't know much about the roles in DotA in both casual gaming and professional gaming. In League it's pretty much standard 1 top, 1 jungler, 1 mid, 2 bot. Actually in LoL, there is a strat that there are 2 junglers... but League removed that by raising the bounty of getting the first tower in the game. Thus raising the importance of pushing faster instead of jungling faster. You said "trading farm in the first 15mins." occur in many LoL games, I cannot say that this is not true. But the double jungle in DotA actually portrays this exchanging of farm. And with LoL removing the double jungle, that fixed the trading of farm by the junglers. Also, with the plants made in LoL it gives the junglers more way to steal farm or even hunt the other jungler. ("jump" plant in surprising the other jungler is really used now).

    you decide who wins this one.

    4. Denying (Dota 2 > LoL) -- you take this one. there's nothing to defend here. lol.

    5. Casual gaming (Dota 2 = LoL) I wouldn't say that League wins this one. (Yes, i'm not biased) It is true that mixing it up with friends is really fun. Also, League has a big community indeed. But this community itself is what brings League down as well. There are many players in League who are really toxic and trolls that aren't completely "reformed" by the tribunal. Some doesn't get banned, while others get banned even if they don't deserve it. Yes, that is sickening. So I won't give the win to LoL.

    6. Competitive gaming (?? > ??) -- this is why I don't get. it isn't fair for League to compare the money in DotA with it. I mean, DotA is already well known because of DotA 1, and DotA 2 is obviously the sequel. It has an advantage with reputation so it's not a surprise that it has advantage in exposure and money. I think if LoL was released in the same time as DotA 1, I think it would compete rather better than it has now.

    LoL + individual skill, here we go again. This is not true to be honest. Teamwork, like DotA 2, is needed in League. For instance, without teamwork, one cannot simply push all lanes, one cannot simply go for the objectives (turrets, inhibitors, buffs), one cannot simply hunt the other players, one jungler cannot simply get a gank without coordinating with the lane he/she is ganking (the jungler would have to know where the wards are set up, as well as what summoner spells the opponents have). What if the opponent in bot lane both has flash, that would turn the tides for them. Or even, what if the enemy top lane has TP, while their ally top lane doesn't? That will also result to a countergank. There are also champion combos that is crucial in clashes. Orianna ult + Yas ult combo. What if the other person's ult is on cooldown, or rather what if the other player doesn't want to initiate? The players in League needs teamwork, synergy, and communication. Saying otherwise is just not right. Yes, there are koreans in NA teams, but they are also required to learn speaking in English or atleast know the simple words of it. To address this, aren't there pings in League? As well as DotA? This is a form of communication, right? And communicating is, I believe, a form of teamwork between players. Anyhow, there are videos made by teams wherein the korean players are urged to learn to speak in English. For instance, Huni when he joined Fnatic or Immortals he was aided in learning English so that he would communicate with the European/American players in the team. The team helped him as well as his Korean colleague Reignover. I'm assuming this is enough?

    Again, you mentioned vision, but this can be countered with control wards and oracle lenses. Also, invisibility and camouflage are two different things now in League.

    Lastly, the buyback. This caught my attention. Saying that this is an advantage for DotA is being biased. You're saying that being able to buyback spices up the game and makes it more "diverse". Meanwhile, I think not being able to buyback tests the players to be more careful in shot calling or else it will result to the enemy team getting the objectives. Rather than, "Oh I died. No problem, i'll just buyback because i have the money. Oh the enemy player doesn't have money? Well, good for me". That's the way I look at it, but I'm respecting DotA 2 players, I'm not against the buyback. But why look at it as an advantage over League?

  4. #114
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    Continuation

    Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

    7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

    With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

    And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails.

    That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiVan View Post
    Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

    7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

    With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

    And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails.

    That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes.
    For heroes and abilities, to me dota is better.
    1. Wars are easier to waged in LoL, i watched a couple games from my friend and youtube, for LoL you dont really need to spread up and split roles, you just go as a team and fight (this happens mostly before the creep spawn. Either you r a support or tanker, it really doesnt matter, group up and the war is on.*
    2. LoL abilities are i think too powerful, evenwhen you are still level 1 which means you only have 1 skill. It is enough to injure heroes really bad. 1 skill and a couple of hits
    3. Maps, Dota have trees and LoL have bushes which grants invisibility when youre in it. Now, it is mostly the same as MOBA legends (moba game for phone). If you compare it to Dota, trees are more challenging and provides better hideouts for heroes. With trees you can juke, you can take advantage of fog therefore making your enemy blind so they cant hit you. High ground and low ground also gives your enemies a hard time to chase you if you can make use of it pretty well. Different to LoL, although bushes grants invisibility, if your enemies are in it aswell, your cover is blown. That would be, well, not much of a help.
    4. Managing. It is a lot harder to manage heroes and to coordinate in team fights and escape in Dota. For example, 1 hero is usually the bait to starting a war. You also need the right time to initiate otherwise you will mess up. It doesnt stop there. Usually you need ganks to help a bero get a kill. But it is never the case in LoL, if you are up 1 on 1 against a hero. You yourself is enough to easily kill your oppenent, vise versa.
    5. Person skill and instinct. Dota wins the day yet again, with various items and skills, it is important to know when to realease or use it. You can also juke with items and skill, such as skills and items which gives you illusion of yourselves (manta, phantasm). By making your enemies chase the wrong you, that requires some handy work and fast response cause it requires you to first select your illusion and then make them run and let your enemy chase it, you also need to not forget about the real you. So yeah it is tough to control.
    7. For now, i personally think that with the newly realeased patch 7.0, Dota still need a lot of trimming and balancing work. But it will always be the best for me. I also respect LoL for what it is.*
    One more thing, in my country we play LoL from garena. When you are online (not in game) and want to chat to your friends, there is just no way for you to chat merely because no chat feature were given. It could be troublesome. Different to steam of course. And i dont know if it is available from other platforms.

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    :)

    Quote Originally Posted by angelanz2 View Post
    For heroes and abilities, to me dota is better.
    1. Wars are easier to waged in LoL, i watched a couple games from my friend and youtube, for LoL you dont really need to spread up and split roles, you just go as a team and fight (this happens mostly before the creep spawn. Either you r a support or tanker, it really doesnt matter, group up and the war is on.*
    2. LoL abilities are i think too powerful, evenwhen you are still level 1 which means you only have 1 skill. It is enough to injure heroes really bad. 1 skill and a couple of hits
    3. Maps, Dota have trees and LoL have bushes which grants invisibility when youre in it. Now, it is mostly the same as MOBA legends (moba game for phone). If you compare it to Dota, trees are more challenging and provides better hideouts for heroes. With trees you can juke, you can take advantage of fog therefore making your enemy blind so they cant hit you. High ground and low ground also gives your enemies a hard time to chase you if you can make use of it pretty well. Different to LoL, although bushes grants invisibility, if your enemies are in it aswell, your cover is blown. That would be, well, not much of a help.
    4. Managing. It is a lot harder to manage heroes and to coordinate in team fights and escape in Dota. For example, 1 hero is usually the bait to starting a war. You also need the right time to initiate otherwise you will mess up. It doesnt stop there. Usually you need ganks to help a bero get a kill. But it is never the case in LoL, if you are up 1 on 1 against a hero. You yourself is enough to easily kill your oppenent, vise versa.
    5. Person skill and instinct. Dota wins the day yet again, with various items and skills, it is important to know when to realease or use it. You can also juke with items and skill, such as skills and items which gives you illusion of yourselves (manta, phantasm). By making your enemies chase the wrong you, that requires some handy work and fast response cause it requires you to first select your illusion and then make them run and let your enemy chase it, you also need to not forget about the real you. So yeah it is tough to control.
    7. For now, i personally think that with the newly realeased patch 7.0, Dota still need a lot of trimming and balancing work. But it will always be the best for me. I also respect LoL for what it is.*
    One more thing, in my country we play LoL from garena. When you are online (not in game) and want to chat to your friends, there is just no way for you to chat merely because no chat feature were given. It could be troublesome. Different to steam of course. And i dont know if it is available from other platforms.
    1. Yup, that's call cheesing. Grouping up in the first few minutes in the game to pick up some kills. But roles are clearly divided, mind you. There will always be a top laner, jungler, mid laner, adc, and support. (Given that everyone knows how the game works.) And also, someone would have to build tank, someone will have to build ability power, and someone should be attack damage. Things like that are basic stuff, it is in league.

    2. Hmm, I really don't know how to react with this. There are some skills that are strong, true. But I don't think it's something that would easily kill a player. I mean, any player could dodge skills. Also, each champion has their kit different from others that is used differently as well. It all depends, honestly.

    3.Bushes, too, can be used for juking and ambushes. It is true that it is not that useful if your enemy is in the bush as well, that is why zoning and proper positioning is important. While high ground and low ground, as you say, is helpful when enemies are chasing you, there are elements in League that does the same. For instance, the "jump" plant that displaces champions depending on the angle. Similarly, the scuttle crab provides movement speed when walked upon (if your teammate claimed it. This is somewhat an objective since it gives sight and mobility to those who kills it). So I think DotA and LoL has their own advantages.

    4.This is just wrong in so many levels.First of all, you can also bait in League of Legends. What makes you think that you can't? It depends how the players utilize that champion. Secondly, timing. Timing is also needed in League of Legends. Knowing when to initiate, start combos, trade, retreat. Come on, how is timing not important in League of Legends? Or in any strategy games at least? Now, ganking. You say 1on1 against a hero is enough in LoL. No, that is not true, especially if one player counterpicked the champion of another player. It is not all the time that both players are equally matched. Sometimes someone will be bullied, have a hard time, fall of in cs, zoned, etc. That is when the jungler is useful. For ganks. It is true that a single person can another person, and vice verso. But you think that other person will let him/her do that easily? I think not. That is why junglers in League are there, to get & ensure kills for himself or for the laner.

    5. Hmm... skills, you mean by the hero/champion? As mentioned earlier, League definitely wins this one. There are champions in League with two forms which has a unique set of skills. Moreover, summoner spells are present in LoL in which two can be picked to be used in the game. So I doubt that DotA wins in the diversity of skills. Moving on, items. I don't remember much of the items in DotA 2 but I'm just gonna point out the items in League with their special abilities. But we have items that is used for shielding, increasing movement speed for the whole team, 2 hextech items (one similar to force staff but with shorter range and damage, the other for shooting missiles that slows enemies, buffing an allied minion/creep, we also have an item that spawns a portal that produces mini creeps that could help pushing, item that builds momentum which increases movement speed, item that is used in forming bonds with another ally to improve stat (mostly used for the support and AD Carry), and more.

    6. And lastly, this. I don't know anything about the new patch in DotA 2 so i'll let that be. It's funny you said Garena, because we use that third-party app as well. I think the countries in Asia use Garena to be able to play LoL. And sorry, but I don't believe the part that there is no chat provided. I can screenshot mine and show you that mine has chat in both Garena and League of Legends itself. I doubt that any online game, especially MOBAs, wouldn't provide any chat feature with other people.

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    Hii

    Quote Originally Posted by HiVan View Post
    Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

    7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

    With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

    And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails.

    That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes.
    HiVan, I've read most of your points and while some are valid.. But I can easily tell you probably haven't played Dota 2 much or have just played at a lower level and don't really understand it. Unless you have put as much time and effort into understanding Dota 2 as you have in LoL you can't really say you are "not biased". But the same thing can be said for me, I've probably played Dota 2 more than I have for LoL so maybe I'm a bit biased too.

    My Lolking is here: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/293042
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    I play on OCE server which sort of makes me trash but I 100% guarantee I could get Challenger on NA at least if given the chance. I wouldn't say I'm that good of a player, if somebody asked if I was good I'd say I am okay or decent. I think I can achieve results because I understand the games a lot, I don't play that much and I'm too old for these games now. 25 years old and been working full time for the past 5 years, got a GF who doesn't like me playing and tonnes of other things on the list too. Yet I've still had my share of competitive experiences, just came back from Korea last month after getting stomped in Dota 2 by teams like MVP Phoenix and TNC in WESG which is probably my last big tournament for MOBAs. However I still understand the games better than 99% of the player base (probably) and my opininon is purely based on my understanding from both games. You are basing your opinions having only played LoL and only heard of or watched Dota 2 and even though you can still have your say, it is similar to reviewing a restaurant based on one dish you have tried.

    Well yeah there are a lot of buffs in LoL which does make it more diverse in a way but this is only one advantage compared to the many disadvantages. You only have 2 jungle camps on each side (excluding buffs) whereas Dota 2 has 5 on one side and 3 on the other so it's not really a relativity issue. The bad thing with LoL is that if you send your support jungler and mid laner to top lane for a gank / push you will probably lose the game. You lose out two waves mid and their jungler will probably pressure bottom, it will take your team about 15-30 seconds to get back to the lane depending on mid or bot. If you look at every LoL game between Koreans it is all very much the same, compare the CS, look at the laning stage, mid game everyone will just shove lane and group up. It's a simple formula that works almost everytime and hardly everyone does it differently. Just because somebody picks a champion that isn't "meta" doesn't mean there is variety, I saw the MF support and Lee Sin support at worlds and seeing everyone hyped up because of a 'different' champ pick into a role just shows how consistent the games have been.

    Yeah I agree LoL is a lot more punishing and mistakes cannot be made, if you play in a high level game and make one mistake it is pretty much all over. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on how you look at it. I think it's downright stupid because there are no comeback mechanics to get back into the game, no high risk plays to help your team come back. In Worlds if a team was behind 10k gold they have a 99% chance of losing but in Dota 2 there are many ways to comeback and risky plays to be made, people come back from 20k gold difference all the time in Dota 2. If I'm playing league with a team and we are behind the same strategy will be called, push lanes group up ward baron and dragon etc. But in Dota 2 if you are behind, you can choose to do a smoke rotation, do a bait, gamble on a big rune, buy a divine rapier etc.

    I worded that sort of wrong when I was talking about the roles, there is a lot more variety in Dota 2 trust me on this one. Also I played the meta where top laner would get smite and jungle too. Hearing you say double jungler as a variety of the game just shows how streamlined it really is. Did you know in Dota 2 you can even kill Roshan (Baron) at lvl 1 when the game starts? Riot sort of enforces the meta to shape the same way which confuses me as to what they wanna do with the game but that's a different story.

    Competitive is not always about the money, sure that drives more people to compete but some players just want to win. I thought the competitive scene was pretty black and white, Dota 2 is far more complex and superior in many ways and LoL doesn't even come close. Believe me when I say that Dota 2 trumps LoL in the competitive scene and how games are played and the teamwork needed to win, it just isn't even fair to compare and debate about it. I did not say LoL didn't require teamwork, I just said that there isn't really much depth to it and sure there are many combos to pull off but they are all very basic, if you play in high level games everyone will take timers of flash, and it's so easy to just press r when you are Orianna and your Malphite is spamming his going in ping. These things should be a given and if you are making a professional team and one player cannot do this then that player shouldn't be in the team. The Chinese / Korean hybrid teams communicate in English and they are all Fob as hell. If you've watched any of the Mic check series half the time you hear the teams say in teamfights: "Talon Talon Talon, Lucian Lucian Lucian, Nice nice nice, naisu naisu naisu. Is that really teamwork and communcation? There is some of that in Dota 2 but there is way too much going on and way too much that can happen that communication is ALWAYS an issue I guarantee it.

    If you are pushing high ground in LoL you only really need to watch out for their initiation and their tower. In Dota 2 however, you have a glyph to worry about, buy backs which effectively means that you have to be prepared to kill EVERYONE TWICE when taking high ground potentially. Late game the only thing you need to make sure you do in LoL is not get caught out, because being dead for 60 seconds could cost the game. In Dota 2 team fights late game can go crazy, with Aegis, cheese, refresher, divines and buy backs with BoT TPs there are just endless possibilities and you might even fight the same hero 3 times in one team fight, somebody could use a refresher orb to use their ulti twice, there are now "9" item slots so late game will only be more hectic. I could go on about how crazy things can get in Dota 2 compared to LoL but I'll hold off for now.

    I did not base the advantage purely off the buy back, it is just an added feature allowing comebacks, big plays, a safety net and sometimes this could be the reason games go on for 3 hours. Buy back is not as simple as you think, a lot of big decisions are made or held off because it exists which affects the game a lot.

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    Red face Best MOBA Game [DOTA 2]

    Well..Well...Well..
    i think Dota 2 best MOBA game...
    Why ? ....
    i Like dota 2 graphic + many choice of skill +item
    after patch 7.00...
    its god damn different
    but i like it..
    2 bounty rune spot for each team that will make our support easier 2 get golds...
    connector between offlane with the jungle ( make us think twice how we ganke / from where we will gank enemy )[ITS TEAM PLAY]
    more skill upgradeable that will make us think twice which one will we choose 2 counter enmy hero and etc.
    thats all
    BES MOBA GAME STILL DOTA 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by altereDad View Post
    Seems like DOTA2 has a commanding lead. I'm giggling at the LoL crowd
    Yeah, and the LoL crowd is pretty silent on the elaboration like the in-depth discussions the DOTA 2 crowd is having. I wish that I played these two games more though, so that I could also contribute my 2 cents. I must say though, richly learned about DOTA 2 here.

    I am currently thinking about giving Gigantic a go to compare with Paragon. The two seems to be very similar, but Paragon is more third-person MOBA where Gigantic is more shooter with MOBA elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygalion View Post
    Still dota2 is the best. One of MOBA genre creator works on it. This game is completely free and open- all heroes are there for everyone to play. This game is more mature than others, no silly oversized boobs and silly childish skins because its seruius game with serijus character saving world. Also this is team game where in LOL one champion can win all game, in Dota2 only a team play can win. But i think most eill agree, Dota2 has been changed and not for the best. I dont play it for some time. I dont want to buy compendium all the time, but most prpblem is bad players where pkaying 1h match and 1 bad olayer in team and you start regret wasted time. I remember when game were in beta, so much good players, lot of events.
    still DOTA2 has a huge community and not all players are good but that's when you become complex to any situation even it is hard to blend to other player or bad player

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